New York Post / Urban Meyer piece
Link is here: Link
Nothing Earth-shattering here, and I know the Post is considered somewhat of a rag, but it's circulation is undeniably massive. Highlights:
At best, Ohio State coach Urban Meyer has a public perception problem. At worst, he’s another in a long line of win-at-all-cost coaches.
As was the case at Florida, Meyer refers to his Ohio State players as his children. He says he has a responsibility to “educate, correct, discipline, and push them in the right direction as hard as you possibly can.’’ “To have a couple of knuckleheads make some decisions that reflect the entire program, that’s not — I guess it’s part of the deal,’’ Meyer said. “It’s something that bothers me, bothers our staff and we work very hard to avoid with our players.’’
Obviously, this next chapter in Meyer's tome has yet to be written. This will be a fun ride indeed, especially if he turns into the second-coming of Coop. (And by that I mean losing to Michigan with regularity.)
August 12th, 2013 at 9:42 AM ^
August 12th, 2013 at 9:46 AM ^
August 12th, 2013 at 9:56 AM ^
matter of perspective. They love him, we "hate" him.
August 12th, 2013 at 11:02 AM ^
People outside of that trash hole don't really like him either. We're not the only fanbase!
August 12th, 2013 at 10:02 AM ^
Perception with fans of opponents and certain segments of the media probably isn't the same as with a bunch of 17-year-olds who dream of playing at OSU and/or big-time college football. As long as Meyer can convince kids they'll win and play in the NFL, I doubt most kids even contemplate anything else.
August 12th, 2013 at 3:54 PM ^
I agree with you, but Ohio is immune to perception problems.
See Woody, Clarrett, Smith, Tressel, Pryor, etc., etc., etc.
August 12th, 2013 at 9:55 AM ^
I think that might be part of his problem. Athletes go to Ohio and remain children, they come to Michigan and become men.
August 12th, 2013 at 10:01 AM ^
BOOM. Poignant'd.
August 12th, 2013 at 11:08 AM ^
Athletes go to Ohio and remain children, they come to Michigan and become men.
I like the point being made here. It may be a bit over-generalized, but I think there's a valid point here -- that is, if the fundamental objective of a football program is to win games, then the program and the players will orient around that objective.
For what it's worth, I do not believe Hoke's fundamental objective is to win football games. Yes, I agree he very much wants to win games; and yes, I understand that ultimately his job depends on winning football games. But by all external appearances -- quotes from Hoke and staff, and quotes from reporters covering Michigan -- the emphasis is on responsibility, discipline, preparation, and sincere concern for the well-being of the players. Get those right and football wins naturally follow.
I don't know Urban Meyer, so I can't really say what the true inclination of his heart is on this. I don't think he's an awful person. I do think his success early in his career has formed a kind of burden around his neck to continue to achieve the same success. I think his melt-down at Florida was evidence of this. With Tebow gone and the Alabama juggernaut warming up, Meyers' prospects for continued 12-win seasons diminished.
August 12th, 2013 at 3:57 PM ^
Aka "winning the right way." Every school has arrest problems at some point. Urban may be setting records in the wrong way along with his winning record.
August 12th, 2013 at 11:22 AM ^
Ain't nobody go to Ohio State to play school.
August 12th, 2013 at 9:59 AM ^
August 12th, 2013 at 10:51 AM ^
August 12th, 2013 at 11:03 AM ^
I am pretty sure that was snark...
August 12th, 2013 at 10:04 AM ^
Just another day, just another Urban Meyer post
August 12th, 2013 at 10:08 AM ^
The news media loves narratives. Once they develop one, they stick with it, whether the truth supports it or not. We're all too familiar with this because they latched onto Rich Rod with a narrative, and then we had to hear every last little detail about his buyout, and his real estate issue, and stretching too much, and oh god I hear he yells at his players won't someone think of the (18-20 year old) children!
Now they've got the narrative that Urban Meyer is a dirty SEC type. I'm not saying they're wrong or right, because it almost doesn't matter. That's what they're running with, and now every player of his (past or present) that does something bad, any questionable decision he makes, will fuel the narrative. It's a lot more fun to be watching from the outside this time.
Right now the Buckeye fans are circling the wagons around their coach for the most part, but I've already started to see a few cracks in the ranks. The Eleven Warriors thread about Najee Murray getting kicked off the team included more than a couple posters saying "uh... star player assaults a dude and gets a 3-game suspension, career backup 'violates team rules' and gets kicked off the team... I'm not sure I'm okay with this." Imagine what will happen if they actually lose a few games this year...
August 12th, 2013 at 10:15 AM ^
Well put. As a Michigan fan, I'm loving the scrutiny of every player screw up at OSU. Probably not exactly the image the university wants if they are trying to improve their academic profile. They already let Gee go after one too many foot in his mouth incidents. Some may think the athletic department runs the university but if there are a few more weekends where 4 players get arrested I could see Meyer out of a job. They may replace the AD first though, as Meyer will have the team winning.
August 12th, 2013 at 10:33 AM ^
their administration not setting high enough standards for their football team (standards other than just winning games). Their AD, President, and BOT have all been guilty of looking the other way or tolerating crap like the cars, tatoo's, lying, cash changing hands, etc. by not adequately punishing the offenders. Hopefully their new President, whoever it ends up being, sets the bar a lot higher. A good start would be axing Smith as AD and getting someone much more professional.
August 12th, 2013 at 6:18 PM ^
Gene Smith is the ultimate professional, providing plausible deniability to a board of trustees that, far from simply "looking the other way", actively encourage the behavior you describe. He had proved his worth in that regard at ASU (you might recall that his claim to fame was that he did not believe in internal controls because they were evidence of distrust of his staff) and he was the perfect replacement for Andy Geiger, an honorable man unwilling to perform this service.
August 12th, 2013 at 4:00 PM ^
If Meyer wins he will never be out of a job. This is Ohio we're talking about. They treat Tressel like a God. Urban could recruit from the pen and have a job if he won.
August 12th, 2013 at 6:27 PM ^
You are right and the Hernandez/Cooper/Florida arrest record stuff kind of brings these narratives about Meyer to light but I am really not so sure it is a stretch. Dirty or no, discipline is not handed out evenly, there are many stories from our recruits and others that suggest he lies to recruits about our program and coaches, and stuff like that kid who showed up for a visit and nobody was there I have to believe exemplify his attitude. Undefeated seasons and championships may make people ignore some of that stuff but I can't help but think it will end up as divisive as it was at Florida.
August 12th, 2013 at 10:41 AM ^
There has been a lot of media coverage(which probably isn't a terrible thing for OSU), and a fair bit of whining about it from Meyer(which isn't doing anyone any good). More than being portrayed though, he IS your stereotypical SEC coach. Cleaner than some that get less attention...and I think that's where a lot of Meyer's whining comes from.
But when you take over the dirtiest program in a conference that wants to call itself "academic" and you run it like an SEC program, this is what you're going to get.
August 12th, 2013 at 10:08 AM ^
I don't think we can make too much fun of Sparty for their inferiority complex when we have a new Urban Meyer post every day.
August 12th, 2013 at 10:43 AM ^
August 12th, 2013 at 10:14 AM ^
It's not likely to happen but imagine a Ohio - Arizona Rose Bowl??? This place would go crazy...
August 12th, 2013 at 10:32 AM ^
I do enjoy watching Urban get all huffy about how he takes discipline seriously. Every program manages to get a few idiots in the fold, but the fact is, if Urban really cared about discipline, he wouldn't be bringing in so many bad apples. His track record is blatant
August 12th, 2013 at 12:34 PM ^
I think a part of it is taking in bad apples (in my mind, taking in players with obvious warning signs of trouble yet-to-come). But I think a bigger part of it is the culture of "situational ethics" that we see in some dicey programs. Once a team knows there will be no real adverse consequences for misconduct, there's more misconduct.
I hear a lot of Michigan fans express relief that they're glad that Tyrelle Pryor choose OSU over Michigan. I wonder, though, whether Michigan's culture of accountability would have helped T-Peezy (sp?) grow into a better man than he was when in college.
Of course our fanbase (myself included) tends to assume the worst when an OSU player makes the headlines for "something other than athletics". That stated Urban's track record in not only picking bad apples, but also letting apples go bad, is - as you stated - blatant.
August 12th, 2013 at 10:53 AM ^
...But I believe someone on here made an excellent point about the fundamental differences between UM and OSU being based on (or at least exemplified by) Bo and Woody. Bo was a tough-as-nails, hardass who cared about his athletes more than anything. He won, and he won with class and grit in equal measure. Bo's motivation seemed to be to create THE TEAM and turn boys into men. The winning would follow.
Woody, from an outsider's perspective at least, seemed to be driven more by hatred of Michigan and a need to win. Punching a Clemson player shocked no one, but rather seemed to sum up the natural end result of the type of coach (and person) he was. That may not be fair, but that's the perception.
Fair or not, that's the sort of narrative that the media will follow. When RR gets into trouble for Stretch-gate, the narrative is one of RR vs. a more "refined" tradition that never cut corners. When Urban's student-athletes get in trouble, the narrative is "of course, it's OSU and Urban." Whether it's fair or not, that's how folks will think of OSU and former SEC coaches. If Urban isn't careful, that narrative will become self-fulfilling (if not already true), and he's likely to draw more thugs than students in the near- and long-term.
August 12th, 2013 at 11:22 AM ^
You are clearly mistaken if you don't think Woody's first and foremost objective was to teach, inspire and direct young men to do good in their lives. There are plenty of books written about him that include interviews with former players that prove this point if you care to read up on him.
August 12th, 2013 at 11:43 AM ^
...No one can get inside of a person's head. I didn't have the opportunity to meet Woody or see how he was in the locker room or on a practice field. My post was about perception. And the indelible last image of Woody was punching an opposing player. It may not be fair that this is how he's remembered outside of the OSU fanbase (life is not fair...anyone who tells you otherwise is trying to sell you something), but this is how he's remembered by many.
My post was not about Woody, per se. I have nothing to add to the topic. My post was about popular perception and media portrayals, and on that, we all can contribute.
If my post seemed a cheap shot at Woody, I apologize. That wasn't my intent. If you intend to argue that the perception of Woody in the popular media is other than how I describe it, I would appreciate your additional data point, should you care to contribute.
August 12th, 2013 at 12:22 PM ^
I didn't take it as a cheap shot. And, yes, the perception of Woody to most people will always be negative because of that incident- which is unfair but like you said that's life. What is also not fair, though, is to take that broadly stroked, outsider's perception of Woody to justify your opinion of the fundamental differences in the two programs. Especially when your opinion is that one program cares about making men out of boys and the other program only cares about winning. I just think that if you wanted to convey that all OSU cares about it winning, a Tressel "tatgate" reference or an Urban Meyer Correctional Institute reference would have been better. And I wasn't trying to be snark- there are a lot of anecdotes from former players on Hayes that are worth reading.
August 12th, 2013 at 8:33 PM ^
has read Bo's "lasting lessons" book on leadership, you'd know that very shortly after the incident with Woody and the Clemson player, Bo was asking for a meeting with Woody to convince him to apologize so that he could keep his job.
Its really easy for fans, especially us Michigan fans, to make fun of Woody Hayes because of that incident, but he and Bo were friends. That says a lot to me.
August 13th, 2013 at 8:44 AM ^
August 12th, 2013 at 11:01 AM ^
Meyer is not going to "lose to Michigan with regularity." He is a great coach on the field, and his boosters buy him whatever piece he needs. As a fan since 1960, seeing a coach like Meyer at Ohio is pretty much my worst nightmare.
My biggest hope is that he is held responsible for what he and his players do off of the field. My prediction: he wins a National Championship in the next two years, only to have to vacate it after Lloyd Carr heads the first real NCAA investigation in Columbus, and uncovers a plethora of major violations.
This, of course, would end in Meyer being fired, only to resurface elsewhere after the new NCAA Division 4 decides that it's OK for players to accept money.
August 12th, 2013 at 11:13 AM ^
Just wondering here. Do the guys putting +1 or -1 down on posts now think (hope?) that somebody is going to go through and tabulate them once (if?) this newest version of the site is "corrected"?
August 12th, 2013 at 12:36 PM ^
+1 - Interesting.
August 12th, 2013 at 11:16 AM ^
I can't believe the Breaking Bad thread was deleted right as I found a funny GIF to post but this crap gets to stay up. Do we need a thread anytime Urban Meyer farts or scratches his balls?
August 12th, 2013 at 11:31 AM ^
It may be crap, but this narrative has legs.
August 12th, 2013 at 11:50 AM ^
Just because its in a major publication doesn't mean its newsworthy, though our point stands as well.
August 12th, 2013 at 11:57 AM ^
Urban Meyer is lax on his players. We've know this since Florida. Do we need a thread anytime someone new says something completely unoriginal about it? Perhaps a stickied thread for people to complain about Meyer would suffice? God I cannot wait for football season to start again.
August 12th, 2013 at 12:30 PM ^
bottom line is that none of anything printed about how bad of a guy meyer is matters... he will win at Ohio and win big... they are a machine right now not only out recruiting michigan but the rest of the country.. with that being said i LOVE the players hoke is bringing in and i think in a year or two we will be on the OHIO level of depth but right now meyer has a loaded roster 3-4 deep...
August 12th, 2013 at 7:09 PM ^
August 12th, 2013 at 7:25 PM ^
and Hoke is here. The difference is night and day. And the difference is Greg Mattison who has worked for both, and who left Meyer's staff and wanted to work for Hoke.
Not saying that there is anything wrong with Meyer per se, just that he and Saban are of the same ilk. Saban left Michigan State because he couldn't compete with Lloyd Carr and Michigan in recruiting. He went to LSU, got established, created his reputation as a dynamic winner, and has become the premiere coach in the game.
Meyer made his bones as a winner out West after getting his start in the Midwest and then secured himself in the SEC at Florida before taking the gig in Columbus, where his reputation is secure no matter what. If Tressel can be honored while no is permitted to hire him as a coach without review of the hiring, then Meyer can make examples out of excommunicating scrubs while keeping stars from any violations of team commandments.