It's a long read, but Charles Robinson's latest article is out.
A lot of new info from Will Lyles.
It's a long read, but Charles Robinson's latest article is out.
A lot of new info from Will Lyles.
Popcorn supplies have been depleted in the midwest. What will this shortage mean for the PAC12 country?
the frozen orange juice market on the commodities exchange.
wow....RIP Chip Kelly
Yeah, the implications there are pretty damned heavy. That's not a glancing blow, that's a big fat cannonball to the squishy underbelly of the program.
Your move NCAA.
I am sure the bucknut slappies are all atwitter at the notion that the Oregon issues will make the NCAA ease up on them.
The day before 4th of July weekend?!?! WHY!?!??!! Oregon dodged a big one with the timing.
Well, it was nice for them the year it lasted, right?
So is the consensus that this is the "10" story that everyone was talking about? Seems pretty damning for Chip Kelly
I think that the WOW factor is a bit higher on this one, simply because of the direct and sudden implications. OSU was an oozing pustule. This is a gunshot wound.
That being said, I'm not sure that this can be a consensus '10' pick unless other stuff comes out.
Also, I don't think that any news agencies would know about something like this. It seems like he just decided to come clean on it. It's not like they would have had knowledge on the situation unless he came clean.
Unless, that is, he was forced to admit this because those agencies got too close to the truth. /Stream of conciousness posts.
Rumors are that UT was a catalyst in this investigation, i.e., they were pissed off that Oregon pulled this in their back yard so they tipped off the NCAA and then Wetzel. It is possible they might even have put some pressure on Lyles (exactly how, I don't know) or gave him incentives him to talk.
Lyles was shown the electrical closet at Texas Tech, with his name on the door, and decided to fess up.
Actually, as Lyles says in the article, with his business gone, he's got nothing and no one to protect by keeping silent.
the instigating source in both SMU's and Oklahoma's NCAA cases?
Texas does seem like the type of university to be a snitch.
Definitely the 10. While SI's article was damning, the sources were sketchy and didn't do much in the way of proving anything really. This article not only shows the knowledge of the HC(!), Ast. Coach, Ast AD of Compliance(!), Ast. Dir. of Football Ops, and basically anyone else in their athletics building who has two eyes and/or two ears, but it provides the evidence with handwritten letters, phone records, and emails.
Ohio fans must be rejoicing with this one.
Compliance only responded to a question posed by the football staffers, not by Lyles himself. It doesn't look like compliance dealt with Lyles at all, which given the massive paper trail involved here, probably means that they didn't know.\
The question itself actually seems pretty innoculous. If a student athlete wanted to go to School A but their (possibly also corrupt) parent wanted them to go to School B, I could see that question easily asked of any compliance department.
God I hope this isn't the 10. $25,000? To a middleman? With Alabama it was $150,000 to the player's actual high school coach. Granted it was a booster and not the head coach, but this isn't what I'd call a 10. If this is the 10 then the scale's all wrong.
I think this is the "6", though I'm not sure at the time Robinson had Lyles lined up for an interview. The "10" was supposed to come out in August.
Only the SEC can pull off a "10"... *cough* Auburn *cough*
Could be. The fact that $25,000 changed hands is a matter of record but anything that happened after that is a matter of what Will Lyles and only Will Lyles says.
Have fun with that one Jake Fisher...that sucks...
Any Oregon recruits that we can poach?
QB Jake Rodrigues and TE Evan Baylis are the only two Oregon commits that have previously been offered by Michigan.
USC, OSU, Oregon...
Those Carr teams are looking better and better
But call me when they find out that Armanti Edwards is really a robot werewolf...
His credentials are not in question.
When will they learn? The whole situation smells, but if Oregon had done the right thing when the potential violations first came to light, maybe Kelly & Co. at least could have argued the violations were unintentional and partly a result of murky NCAA rules. But to have Lyles say (and apparently provide documents showing) that Oregon scrambled and urgently requested backdated recruiting materials and then pass them off to the NCAA as legitimate -- it is just mind-bogglingly stupid.
LaMichael James dodged a test by moving to a different state! Oregon's academics must be quite recreational.
HA! I was thinking the same thing... wow.
It has questions on it like: If Bob has 5 apples and eats 2 applies, how many does he have left?
Seriously - if you fail the TAKS, you need to be hit with a tackhammer
Trick question, my friend.
The answer is 5, at least for about 12 hours.... or 5-6 if he drinks a lot afterwards.
But but but he's academic all pac-12...he's clearly turned it around and put more attention and effort into studying now.
Clearly Lyles has creditability issues, but the fact that he shared everything with Yahoo helps back up his story.
Oregon isn't going to be able to stonewall this one much longer.
And how crazy is it that in the May meeting Lyles had with the NCAA "the stories concerning Kelly, James and Seastrunk... never came up in questioning." Talk about turning a blind eye.
I like how they mention that Chip Kelly has two cell phones. I wonder which one he does his shady dealings on.
But he's lying his ass off when he says he didn't know what he was doing was wrong
Yeah, he's not the innocent victim he's now portraying himself to be.
Do the letters look fishy to anybody else? They seem to be written by the same person. I'm looking at the word 'help' on both letters and they look eerily the same. Thoughts?
I thought maybe so too, but look at the D in Dontae.
In the top letter the tails are consistently hooked; in the bottom letter they're straight.
Am I the only person who feels kinda bummed thinking that the two participants in the national title game are now both mired in NCAA investigations, PLUS the winner of the NCAA Men's basketball championship has its own NCAA issues? Yeah, I know Santa isn't real*, nor is a totally compliant major NCAA program, but still, seems like EVERYONE is friggin' cheating.
Not sure if it's the crappiness of the compliance system, the increase in money (duh!) or just a historical phase (kind of like the lawless 1980s), but it puts a damper on the whole enjoyment of the game when I think "Gee, I wonder how much they paid for that running back"?
*Don't you f$#*ing tell me anything about the Easter Bunny or the Tooth Fairy. I'll kill you where you stand!
You aren't the only one. I have a feeling that TCU and Stanford are more than a little irritated about this, too.
You forgot Bois.... scratch that.
Of course, that assumes that TCU and Stanford are clean programs themselves. They may not be. Remember, they're recruiting against these same dirty schools.
Dood, you're about where I was a few months ago. The tSIO stuff, Oregon, Cam, etc., and then watching "Fab Five" where Mitch Albom talks about Chris seeing his jersey in the window for $75.
It's clear to me: The amateurism rules are STUPID and SUCK -- at least for football and hoops -- and frankly its highway robbery.
You have billions (with a "B") of $$$ in the system, funding all sorts of cushy activities at schools, putting smiles on faces, ensuring longevity of careers, fancy trips, etc. And they don't have to pay their players -- what a system! Look at the trouble the NFL and NBA have, right, when the players demand their fair share. The schools never, ever have to worry about that!!!!
Of course the schools don't want to change. Its a simple system, a simple concept, and they keep all the billions of bucks for themselves.
But... to do it, you need tons and tons of bizarre rules. Here's a trophy or ring for winning the game -- oops, but you can't sell it until you graduate! Here, you can't get a booster to pay for your hamburger, cuz we're worried he'll pay for your new Camaro. You can't get advertising revenue for your name or face, even though EVERYONE knows and loves you, because that'll mean you're in a profession and we're pretending you're not.
The massive $$$ in the system is attracting a ton of people to get their fair share -- dads and moms, "agents," etc. The mosre $$$ and more time, the more this is going to go on. It's insane. Frankly, yes, everyone probably is dirty, to some degree, and those who aren't are going to end up being anyway eventually. It's because this is all a stupid attempt to keep the money for the schools and not pay players. Capitalism needs to enter the picture at some point.
Except that for most football and basketball players, it's nowhere near highway robbery. Do you think, say, Stu Douglass and Patrick Omameh are being "exploited"? They're good players, but they're not headliners. People aren't desperate to buy their jerseys. They don't get mobbed wherever they go. Most football and basketball players are still pretty anonymous. The bulk of them either don't become professionals or have very short careers. For them, getting a free education, plus all the free apparel (these guys get a ton of swag from Adidas, not to mention those lavish bowl gift packages) is a pretty good deal. There are just a small number of super-elite players who truly are headliners, and who truly get a raw deal. Even when it came to the Fab Five, it was really just Webber and Rose that were the moneymakers. Not many people wanted Howard, Jackson or King jerseys, and no one cared about Riley, Voskuil, et al.
Realistically, it's probably better to just keep the amateurism rules as they are and accept that they are ill-fitting for the 2% of players that are superstars. I don't think that a little monthly stipend or whatever is really going to clean up the corruption. The need to gain a competitive advantage will always push schools to bend the rules.
Not to mention that it's awfully silly to demand capitalism take over for the small percentage of players who are "screwed" but leave the rest of the system in place for the rest of the players. If the superstars aren't being properly compensated, then by all means let's properly compensate them - but let's "properly compensate" everyone, which, for a start, basically means no more athletic scholarships for women.
Thank you for putting this the way you did. I usually try to argue the same point, but not as well as you did. The NCAA's rules may be silly but the benefit is a free or reduced cost of a very expensive education. I have no sympathy for the small minorty of athletes getting "exploited". I would gladly play by the NCAA's rules if it meant my education was free.
It seems to me the obvious solution is to provide players with cuts of merchandise sold and licensening fees.
If 1k Denard jerseys are sold at 50 bucks a pop and he gets 1% of that (obviously just making up the numbers).
EA Sports pays each university so much to license the players names and likenesses (see O'Bannon, Ed) and all players get an equal cut.
Not only do players have an incentive to get better and become stars so their merch flies off the shelves, but they get a little something for all the cash being brought in on video games, etc.
I don't see a difference between that and if I wrote a crazy good paper back in college and the New Yorker paid me so much for it.
1. What do you do about the walk-on who conveniently shares a jersey number with a superstar? Does he get a cut, too, since it's also his number?
2. What's to stop rich boosters from buying up jerseys left and right to ensure their star players get a generous royalty check?
3. This would be very, very awkward for coaches. Here you'd have 83 of your scholarship players scraping by and two getting paid thousands by Nike/Adidas/Under Armor. Talk about chemistry problems. Say you decide to bench your starting QB, who's not playing well but who is getting paid by Nike. Would Nike get upset and pressure you to put him back in? Their jerseys might not sell as well with him on the bench. (Nick Saban, of course, would take full advantage by promising every recruit that Alabama would sell his replica jersey.)
This stuff is never simple.
Some numbers will naturally sell better than others. #1 is always going to be a big seller. It's easy to imagine using that as a recruiting tool.
When I buy a #2 jersey it's going to be because of Woodson, not V. Smith. I won't be alone.
For someone who engaged in something he knew was illegal, and the fact that it's probably not the first time this guy has ever crossed the line, he sure sang like a canary. Dude kissed and told everything.
Im really surprised this hasn't attracted more buzz on the board. These are very big allegations and I expect to see something serious come out of this. Depending on how much more comes out of OSU this could be the worst offense in decades.
Maybe the the holiday weekend? I agree with sentiment elsewhere in comments here that Kelly is likely done, and perhaps sooner rather than later. Can't believe Oregon is still claiming this is on the up and up.. Doesn't matter if it was $500, $5,000, $25k, or $250K. The weren't paying for recruiting info, clearly. They were paying for someone of influence to steer kids to Eugene. The head coach was in the middle of it and blessed the payment, if Lyle is to be believed
I'm not buying Lyle's " I wish I'd studied the guidelines" defense either. If he didn't sense something fishy, he's clueless.
the new head coach of the University of Oregon football program. Coach Rodriguez, would you like to say a few words or would like us to introduce your defensive coordinator Coach Casteel as well?"
Rest of Pac-12: "Fuuuuuuuhhhhhhhcccccckkkkk"
First call, if I were the AD. There are probably some sanctions for the program in the future though, but as I write I'm thinking that's probably a good scenario for a coach trying to revive his mojo. Low expectations built in in early years, if there are bowl bans and scholarship reductions. It will be fun to watch where this story goes.
Oregon's on the other coast and nobody really hates them. Up til now their worst offense against mankind was their uniforms, and even then not as much since they got rid of the diamond-plating.
There is one aspect of this story that makes me think VERY bad things about LSU.
Why was Seastrunk's mother so adamant he go to LSU? She wasn't involved in his life, at least in raising him. Both Oregon and LSU turn out NFL products, and there's hardly a basis to say LSU is a better degree than Oregon. (I laugh at the concept of comparing the two -- it's like asking, which tastes better, a piece of cardboard or a piece of plastic. Then there's the filet mignon nearby, the UM degree.)
Doesn't this make you think, some LSU boosters go to his mom and said -- "hey, get your boy to come here, you'll be happy you did. REAL happy." I mean, what else would explain his mom being so adamant that he go to LSU and not Oregon?
Baton Rouge, LA is the closest SEC school, only ~415 miles from Temple, TX; Fayetteville, AR is ~460 and Eugene, OR is over 2,000 miles. Perhaps she wants to be able to see him in person and have her picture on TV on a regular basis.
Patrick Peterson, though not from Texas, was a Will Lyles guy. Rumor is the price tag was $80,000 if memory serves. Miami balked, and LSU got the prize.
I guess the lesson here for everyone is that you should never trust a college program whose mascot rhymes with “sucks.” Bucks, Ducks….same difference.
I love Chip Kelly’s little note to street agent guy that sounded eerily similar to Tres’ e-mail sign-off to Cicero? All that was missing was a "Happy Easter" blast. Hilarious.
“Will, I really appreciate your help in getting Trovon, Dontae, and the whole crew here this past weekend. We’ll work on getting Lache out here soon too! Thanks for orchestrating everything and all your help with these guys. I hope you enjoyed the game … Go Ducks! – Chip Kelly”
It just amazes me that everyone but the SEC is getting caught and in trouble. It kind of like the cops busting people for speeding while the murders get off scott- free. I really hope the "10" is auburn or Alabama.
I'll save you some trouble, it's not Alabama. Saban is a master of the rules, and his use of them may make him an evil snake, but he's clean in the NCAA's eyes.
Yeah, Saban's the kind of guy who searches the rulebook high and low to find loopholes that will gain him a legal-but-dubious advantage. The medical-hardship case obviously is an example. Also, wasn't he the one who started the trend of calling super-late time outs (an instant before the ball is snapped) on opponents' field goal attempts?
There are literally dozens of rules related to the use of chess clocks in official tournament games and skittles games that can be used in "dick move" ways. I myself have benefitted and been victimized by their minutiae in a variety of manners. Mr. Saban is simply using the rules to his advantage in that regard.
Bill Greene just tweeted:
"One of the Big Three in Florida is next in the cross hairs of the NCAA. The info is right there. Just need one on the record."
Very Walter White in Season 2 of Breaking Bad-esque
I was hoping the SI article on Ohio St had.... hadn written notes, cell phone records, and a guy ready to sing on the record.
For the record, if Will Lyles was on "The Wire" he would've been shivved half way to Tuesday after the first 5 mintues of the interview. Snitched get stitches bitches.
The NCAA says the worst thing you can do is lie to the NCAA, to me the worst thing you can do is cheat to make your team better than it otherwise would be. If your star players were caught snorting blow out of a dead hookers buttcrack it wouldn't be as bad to me a coach using alternative methods to get squeaky clean God Fearing 5 stars to play for his team instead of someone elses. Players doing wrong is wrong, but I absolutely despise a team winning illicitly.
Come on down buddy!!! I know someone from your family is reading this. We all forgive you and welcome you with open arms. We assume you'd prefer playing in a bowl game during your career so we'll keep a spot open for ya! Everyone makes mistakes...
I would be very excited if Fisher were able to come back to Michigan...
In my opinion, no one should see this as a shocker. Chip Kelly's first year he started getting the attention of some elite players (whether or not they actually committed to Oregon). As an unknown coach coming to a just above average traditional team there should not be this much interest from many elite players to go to Oregon. Sure, there is the colorful child-like colors on the jerseys, but 2-4 consecitive years of 9-12 wins would be the norm way to build a powerhouse that would attract a ton of top-notch recruits.
Uhh....Well considering BH and Michigan fit all of that same criteria im not sure its the best example. Just sayin.
Who is Oregon's next coach going to be: Jon Gruden, Urban Meyer, or Bob Stoops?
/Those are the only possible choices.
As with any premature coaching search, any coach born in the state of Oregon is automatically at the top of the list of candidates.
/oregon's probably screwed
I'm just kiddin'
But not really.
Maybe Oregon can finally get RR a coach outfit that looks good on him ;)
to the two guys sitting in front of me at the '07 Oregon game. Fat and outta shape 20 something guy had on a shirt that said "I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU LOST TO APP ST!!!" The older man, presumably his father, kept telling me to be quiet every time I cheered appropriately (for the first 4 minutes of the game), then proceeded to blow a duck kazoo essentially nonstop for the next 3 straight hours.
"Ha ha, is that your first lead of the season?" they asked me after we scored our TD.
To you two fucking pricks, I hope you enjoy this and the all the fallout. Quack.
It's bad for the game when people take the issue of cheating and use it as a referendum for whether or not the rules are fair. I'm not talking about random posters on random threads on random boards such as this one, but MSM writers who influence how others think about the game.
I have railed against shamateurism for years now, but the bottom line is that three of the four schools that embarrassed Michigan in 2006-2007 knowingly broke rules that they had signed to obey, and gained a competitive advantage in doing so. Do the rules suck? Of course they do. But that doesn't make it OK to break the rules everybody agreed to follow while schools like Michigan are trying to do things correctly.
MIchigan had 15 extra minutes of voluntary stretching a day, but they haven't been buying players, directly or indirectly, since the Ed Martin shenanigans twenty years ago.. Schools that do, especially those that stonewall and obstruct investigations, need to become "poster children" for more severe NCAA enforcement.
The only thing that would be more fun right now would be if the trifecta of USC, Oregon, and Ohio got a fourth member in Appy State.
So M's rule-breaking is okay but...
Blaming the rule is what the guilty party will try to do, because it turns the spotlight away from them. It's just shameless deflection and in no way properly adresses the fairness of the rule or the fairness of the punishment.
what a bombshell this is. At first you read it and it seems like little stuff and no big deal, but when Kelly is fired and Oregon is on probation it'll seem more serious in hindsight.
Massive holes blown in the Ducks' program here....
What sucks is this Lyles guy doesn't seem so great. This whole thing reflects poorly on both parties.
I dearly hope none of the players get in any trouble for this. I don't think they will, just saying.