New Wojo article: somewhat surprising
Wojo's latest article makes a pretty bold statement that I didn't expect to see from him before the osu game.
http://www.detnews.com/article/20101124/OPINION03/11240324/1131/sports0…
I'm interested to see the response, since his writing is usually well-taken around here.
November 24th, 2010 at 8:28 AM ^
(2007-2009)
17-19
Wins against ranked teams: 1
Oh, and he's playing in the pac10, which has none of the depth of the Big 10.
So, by that reasoning Harbaugh had to beat Oklahoma his third year to keep his job, right? Gawd. This argument is moronic. Wojo is moving the goalposts like the other haters because they want to get Harbaugh before he goes to the NFL, and they want him for no real rational reason other than they think he "guaranteed a win" thirty years ago.
November 24th, 2010 at 9:03 AM ^
Harbaugh beat USC in 07 and 09 on the road. Oregon in 09. That's three wins v. ranked teams right there. He equaled Rich's 2 year league win total in one season while taking over a 1 win program. He had 6 league wins in two years. It has taken Rich three years to accumulate that many.
The top teams in the Pac 10 are Arizona, USC, Oregon, Oregon State, Cal. He beat those teams 7 times in three years. Against the league's top teams under Rich, we have 1 win against Wisconsin with progressively widening margins of defeat.
I am all for keeping Rich on if you can't get Harbaugh. I would say not to kid yourself thinking that Harbaugh couldn't do the job, or people who want him don't know what kind of coach he is.
November 24th, 2010 at 10:23 AM ^
So, you would like to fire a coach (assuming we lose Saturday) who had two straight losing seasons and then went 7-5 for a coach who had two straight losing seasons and then went 8-5.
Got it.
November 24th, 2010 at 11:52 AM ^
Cherry-picking data is fun. Let's ignore the context in which these records were amassed.
Our coach has the chance in year 3 to do something Harbaugh did in year 1 with a far worse team: beat the marquee program in the conference. It's time to win a big game.
November 24th, 2010 at 12:58 PM ^
It's not cherry picking. It's his and RichRod's entire record - that's by definition not cherry picking. I'm glad Harbaugh was able to upset USC in 2007. He also lost that year to a 5-7 Washington State team, a 4-9 Washington team, a 3-9 ND team, and a 6-7 UCLA team.
Michigan football is not essentially based on winning one or two games a year. It's based on being good overall (which, if you are good overall, you will be definition win some/most rivalry games). If you want to fire RichRod b/c he'll go 7-5 this season AND don't think there will be real improvement (i.e., 9 wins or more) next year, OK. But after all we've been through, this one game (or Harbaugh's one game at USC in 2007) should not be the determining factor.
November 24th, 2010 at 8:39 AM ^
this article is shit and most articles from the detroit newspapers are shit. They have been out since day one to get this guy fired. Whats gonna change now? The media has an agenda. The media is scum. Everything you read these days is half the truth...one sided...you call that journalism? its bullshit and you get paid for it, Merry Christmas.
November 24th, 2010 at 9:06 AM ^
Basing a coaches job on the outcome of 1 game is fucking idiotic.
November 24th, 2010 at 9:13 AM ^
what is idiotic is reading that article and thinking Wojo is basing it on the outcome of one game.
He clearly lays out all the struggles and records, etc that we all know about and says a blowout loss to OSU will be the final straw. Its not about one game, it is about the whole package. And all Wojo is saying is an embarrassing performance would just add to the fire.
November 24th, 2010 at 9:30 AM ^
He's saying an embarassing performance would be cause to demolish the building.
I just find it convenient to post that another blowout loss would be unacceptable after Martin, Mouton, Floyd, Woolfolk, Jones, Herron, etc are either hobbled or unavailable. Why not point that out at the beginning of the season?
At any rate, despite the struggles, they have still improved every year and look to continue to improve next year. And if you're going to "lay out the struggles" then make sure you take an objective look at what contributed to them.
I''m not certain he did that. Hell, I'm not sure he even knows.
Regardless, still heh @ suggesting Harbaugh would be a viable replacement what with his eerily similar record over the same amount of time in an inferior conference. That article most certainly did not convince me.
November 24th, 2010 at 9:40 AM ^
You make very valid points. But, to Wojo's credit, he also says that he feels Rich could win elsewhere.
I'll be honest, I don't care ( to quote Mike Valenti.... i know, i know...boooo!) if HR Pufnstuf with Teddy Ruxpin as an assistant is coach.... I just want to get back to being confident UM will be competitive in all games, even against the elite.
But is it a stretch to say that maybe Rich just doesn't fit here? Clearly he has a faction against him within the "family" (not talking about angry fans) and regardless of progress, that faction will likely never be happy. Right or wrong, that seems to be the case.
November 24th, 2010 at 2:11 PM ^
Don't forget that DB has done a lot of house cleaning since his arrival. He has broomed some of those in the "family" who have purposely hurt the program. Too bad that had to be done, but without those people sabotaging the program and dividing the holdover players and the fan base, I think RichRod would have been much more successful, sooner.
I'm sick of hearing about whether RR "fits" at Michigan. The only problem with his "fit" is the unwillingness of people to accept him as the head coach, and that is not his doing. I personally believe that he is the right guy for the job, but he has had to drag half of the fanbase kicking and screaming into the 21st century of college football. Yes, the defense and special teams are of concern and have not developed as well as the offense (an understatment, I know), but I'd bet my salary that he is more concerned than anyone in the fanbase about those two facets of the program because it's his ass on the line.
I disagree with Wojo. Unless a new head coach walks into a situation where he runs the same or similar offense and defense as his predecessor and has enough good players from the get-go (Lloyd Carr, anyone?), I think he has to be given four years to prove himself. RR is not responsible that players left after Carr retired. He didn't walk into a situation where, even if he ran the same playbook as Lloyd, success would have been a given in his first year. He deserves another year, particularly with the unity that he has fostered among his players. When Denard Robinson says to a group of reporters that his defense is the best in the country, that's not bravado or ignorance or even naivete' talking. That's etched-in-stone belief in his teammates, the intangibles that DB talks about.
November 24th, 2010 at 11:14 PM ^
Do you have some inside knowledge that no one in the media, no one on this blog, or anyone who actually talks with people that can show people who have been let go were actively conspiring to screw things up to stick it to Rich Rod? Things were screwed up, and some people paid for it with their jobs, but this conspiracy stuff is a joke. Because the only one who's screwed up in multiple ways that is still working for the program is Rich. I don't think people were looking to get themselves canned just because they didn't love the new coach.
November 24th, 2010 at 9:10 AM ^
But to write it before - pure agenda driven. The question is who is controlling the agenda? But apparently they got to Henning and Wojo.
F them. GO BLUE!
November 24th, 2010 at 10:23 AM ^
Have you ever thought that maybe it is Dave Brandon or someone close to him that is feeding the Detroit News the stories? Not someone with an anti-Michigan or anti-Rodriguez agenda.
November 24th, 2010 at 1:09 PM ^
The paranoia is ridiculous. What "agenda" could these guys possibly have? They have no connection to Michigan, aside from sometimes writing about it. All these accusations about The Media are ridiculous. It's what certain idiot ex-president did whenever he didn't like something. He blamed the media. As if the media acts as some monolothic creature with a single goal.
November 24th, 2010 at 9:14 AM ^
every sports writer in America has/will pen an article speculating on the future of all "hot seat coaches" in every sport towards the end of that sport's season.
As the lead sport commentator of a major paper, he is obligated to address that question.
His choices:
1 - RR should canned at once no matter what
2 - RR should go if (proviso)
3 - I don't know (no sport columnist will ever admit this)
4 - RR should get an extension if (proviso)
5 - RR should immediately get a 7 year extension (Notre Dame option)
Most columnists don't want to look stupid, so 1,3,5 are out. So they go for the proviso options, in this case he is choosing the outcome of the OSU game as the crux.
November 24th, 2010 at 10:15 AM ^
In other words, a clevely-programmed word processor could have spit out what Mr. Wojnowski did. There was no news, no new information, no original reporting. No considered wisdom from a guy who (very much unlike Wojnowski) might actually have been a famous or respected player or coach. Just a re-hash of all of the accepted "wisdom" of the mouth-breathers who get their information from 97.1 fm.
November 24th, 2010 at 10:33 AM ^
he picked the Ohio State game as the qualifier.
If that were the case, Lloyd should have been canned in 2006.
November 24th, 2010 at 11:56 AM ^
Because Carr's 2004-06 record paralleled Rodriguez's?
November 25th, 2010 at 3:02 AM ^
You need to read better
November 24th, 2010 at 1:27 PM ^
You have no way of knowing this. None. Wojo has always been a reliable, even-handed reporter. Once he says something you don't like, however, he's suddenly an unreliable scumbag. You don't know what confidential information he may have. He is, after all, an experienced reporter of some repute. Why don't you wait and see what happens before deeming him inaccurate. Isn't that kind of, um, the American Way.
November 24th, 2010 at 2:03 PM ^
I'm sorry. Stop the grand assumptions and pronouncements about the Evil Media hellbent on destroying Michigan. Maybe one or two local reporters hate Richrod. But most really don't have a horse in the race. They do often have access to information that the public doesn't know.
Wojo. He's always been fairly popular among posters here. But now, having posted his opinion, he becomes The Enemy. Yes: opinion. He isn't reporting a scoop that RR will be fired, post-loss. He's saying he ought to be fired. Do you not see the distinction? Do you not appreciate that his opinion, though not shared by you, is an informed one? Has it not occurred to you that, by broad-brushing, you're doing exactly that which you claim to oppose?
And maybe Wojo included a "proviso" because that's the correct scenario? Nobody would can RR after an upset of OSU. All Wojo is saying is that a blow-out would be the last straw. In his opinion. Which may well ring true.
November 24th, 2010 at 9:24 AM ^
If RR leaves for whatever reason, you know he'll go on to be successful somewhere else. Then all of the writers who are saying he should go will be saying that UM missed out. I hate this world.
November 24th, 2010 at 9:28 AM ^
I have pointed to Wojo several times as one who brought reason and rational to evaluating the Michigan program and RR. But it seems that he has a sudden change of heart, probably because of what DB has said off the record. I am not sure how firing RR will improve our chances of winning next year or over the next 3 years. Harbaugh had a similiar record to RR over his first 3 years at Stanford. Assuming the same progression, we are still 4 years away from an elite program. Add that to RR 3 years, that will mean 7 years of rebuilding. Or almost a lost decade. I say have patience, and let's see how RR does next year before committing to a lost decade of Michigan football.
November 24th, 2010 at 9:41 AM ^
I think that one thing that RR has truly failed at doing is providing a sense of true confidence in the team. By that I mean he constantly walks to the podium with an almost set answer group....we are young, have to watch the film to evaluate, injuries.
I dont think he was given the best set of circumstances to walk into....but at some point, you need to look at the focus on the areas of concern, particularly the defense. After letting Schafer go, he just did not give the appearance that he was all that concerned with finding a defense. To Spielman's article the other day which upset so many people.....he failed to find an identity on defense, and IMO failed to bring in that young, exciting person to run the D and excite the D recruits to come to Michigan.
Carr didnt like to recruit....bottom line.....GERG does not like to recruit from many posts I have seen (I hear more from D recruits about Barwis than what they were excited about with GERG and that is alarming).....hate to say it, but that is the lifeblood of building one of these programs, especially when you are trying to get kids in AA from the south.
At a minimum, we need to find someone to run the D....if another blowout with OSU happens, the ONLY way I keep RR if I am Brandon is to have a meeting with him first thing Sunday morning, give him the option for wholesale changes on the defensive side with his input in the search and changes, hire a coach JUST FOR SPECIAL TEAMS that knows how to coach kickers, and give him 24hrs to agree to make those changes.
I think the argument that we are young does hold merit, but I think that back to Speilman's contention unfortunately.....we also have been reeling to bring in kids who may be great contributors as juniors and seniors....nothing wrong with that.....unless you know you need to have production sooner rather than later.....making the wrong hire with GERG and having it drag out after the first season almost to signing day was a BIG reason IMO that we lost out on alot of the more college ready players....what were we going to run, who was going to run it, etc etc etc. Bringing in the coach Syracuse had just run off...from a school none of the players would have considered in the first place = failure.
I like RR, I have said all along he needs time....but at some point you need to decide if he is truly All In....and has what it takes to either take the responsibility for the D himself, or make use of the resources for a school like Michigan to reach out and find the person who can.
If he is not willing to.....I think you may just see a Hello Harbaugh post in the very near future. Brandon cannot let the flagship of his brand continue on without direction.
November 24th, 2010 at 11:21 PM ^
People are to the point they're just making stuff up now, aren't they. Check with any of the recruiting analysts - Carr and his staff were considered one of the top recruiting staffs in the country. They had to being one of the few top programs that can't get most of their talent in their own backyard. Did it slide a bit towards the end? Sure, as it does with any coach approaching retirement. But from the classes we've been bringing in, and the rankings of the current class, it's obvious not as universally positive with Rich. Does he "not like to recruit"? Of course not. It's just more bullshit.
November 24th, 2010 at 9:40 AM ^
Wow, I see more thoughtful, informed opinion writing than that article on these message boards every single day. People pay that guy?
November 24th, 2010 at 10:18 AM ^
I always knew it was your fault.
November 24th, 2010 at 10:59 AM ^
the blitz
November 24th, 2010 at 9:44 AM ^
If we get totally humiliated? Like Wiscy-Indiana beat down? I'm not saying I'd be for it, but I could understand it.
I don't think we will be though. We're gonna fucking win.
I'll be drunk either way.
November 24th, 2010 at 9:49 AM ^
I don't think we will be though. We're gonna fucking win.
I'll stay drunk either way.
FYP
November 24th, 2010 at 10:06 AM ^
So Stanford was 17-20 in Harbaugh's first 3 years? They should have fired him after year three!
November 24th, 2010 at 10:36 AM ^
ummm that was Stanford a pretty crappy program, and since harbaugh has been their they have improved. rich rod's first year was the worst season ever, then he backed that up his second year by winning 1 big ten game. i agree that the team has progressed this year but is their any evidence this team will be better than 7-5 next year?
November 24th, 2010 at 10:58 AM ^
ummm, Michigan's roster was pretty crappy in 2008. have you forgotten starting quarterback nick sheridan and the worst OL in living memory? People pretend like RR walked into some cushy situation and screwed it up, when in reality he inherited the worst Michigan roster in generations.
November 24th, 2010 at 11:25 AM ^
And Harbaugh inherited what, exactly?
November 24th, 2010 at 1:00 PM ^
Harbaugh inherited a better situation at Stanford. There was a lot of depth left behind from the previous coaches. The defense and offense were both pretty well set before Harbaugh got there. Despite the advantages of the situation that Harbaugh was left with at Stanford, his improvement has been similar to RR at this point. In his 3rd year Harbuahg posted 8 wins including his bowl game loss.
Offensively Michigan was left in a terrible situation but this has been reversed by RR and the staff. Defensively all of the player retention issues and injuries have prevented the defense from obtaining the type of depth that RR wants to have. The growth of the freshman and the addition of currently redshirted and injured players will improve the defense.
November 24th, 2010 at 5:30 PM ^
Harbaugh inherited a better situation at Stanford.
I can't even tell if you're joking.
November 24th, 2010 at 12:02 PM ^
have you forgotten starting quarterback nick sheridan and the worst OL in living memory? People pretend like RR walked into some cushy situation and screwed it up, when in reality he inherited the worst Michigan roster in generations.
When he was hired, we still had Ryan Mallett at QB, Adrian Arrington at WR, Justin Boren and Alex Mitchell on the OL. All cited the coaching change as a reason for their departures. We badly missed all of them. And Nick Sheridan did not need to be the opening-day starter; Steven Threet was available, but the staff somehow thought Sheridan would do a better job. (And then, of course, Threet bolted at season's end.)
November 24th, 2010 at 10:19 AM ^
We have since the days of Joe Falls and Jerry Green been subject to an amazing lack of talent in the press. I went from 3 papers a day to 1 and only have that for local sports and, due to my age the Obituaries, how sad. They do not actually work a story anymore, but instead but a finger in the air and write what is a popular opionion. What is the prospect for improvement, what do two deeps look like around the conference, are we instilling discipline as student atheletes. We are building depth and look to have high character students and coaches. Some of the tactics and statements of conference coaches, and some of the behavior of student atheletes on and off the field has been outrageous this year yet is rarely commented on by these writers. Long for the days of Falls, there is more talent on the blogosphere than in the Daily's.
November 24th, 2010 at 2:33 PM ^
Joe Falls? That explains it. Joe Falls was considered among the biggest homers in sports journalism.
November 24th, 2010 at 10:22 AM ^
Ugh I hate reading crap like this.
Making another change now, especially when you're overhauling a century of pounding the football, would be detrimental to the program. When Rich Rod was hired, it was a given that changing the culture would take awhile.
It's working. Stick with it.
Rich Rod can coach and he can recruit. Speed kills.
November 24th, 2010 at 10:52 AM ^
working? Stick with what exactly? Need specifics at this point man. Coach Rod staying is a 50/50 proposition at best right now and I think it is time to put vague statements such "stick with it" and "stay the course" to rest. Wisconsin's <30 straight runs don't think it is working, neither do Michgian's 0 first half points.
OK Hypo, final score from Columbus OSU 48 Michigan 20. One paragraph (150 words) to explain why Coach Rod should stay..... and, go.
November 24th, 2010 at 10:22 AM ^
Wojo wouldn't write this unless he knows something.
Cool.
November 24th, 2010 at 11:06 AM ^
What is that even supposed to mean? That Dave Brandon told Wojo that if we lose to OSU then RR's gone? Yeah, I'm sure.
More likely: Wojo has to write columns to get his paycheck, so he churns out tired, uninformed drivel like this.
November 24th, 2010 at 12:05 PM ^
This column is entirely out of character for Wojo. I think it's quite likely Brandon has spoken to him off the record about RR.
November 24th, 2010 at 10:29 AM ^
I think that many readers may have missed WoJo's point. He is not saying that RR needs to beat OSU to keep his job because losing to them would be unacceptable. Obviously, OSU is superior this year. What he is saying is that based upon RR's body of work so far - in particular his management of the defense, his record in the B10 and his record against MSU and OSU - RR is likely gone, BUT that a close game or a win against OSU could SAVE him.
I know that he doesn't come out and say this, but at least this was the implication that I got.
November 24th, 2010 at 12:29 PM ^
I agree. I think people need to take from the article are these two things:
One if RRs successor, if one is needed, is going to be Harbaugh, DB's hand may be forced because now may be the only opportunity to get him. Even if DB was willing to give RR another year, the guy he is targeting to replace him with probably won't be available when the defense fails to come through again given the current talent level and inexperience. In this scenario the only way DB can justify keeping RR is if he is positive that RR can beat MSU (on the road against a senior QB) or OSU (at home but they will still outmatch UM in talent). If he doesn't believe this there is no reason he should keep RR b/c he will have to fire him next year.
Two, DB is a Bo guy and what was Bo main concern....big ten victories and beating Ohio State. RR's B10 record would not sit well with Bo and can't sit well with DB. Can RR have a winning record in the B10 next year...the schedule does not set up favorably for a team with a weak defense.
November 24th, 2010 at 1:18 PM ^
Dave Brandon is a smart man, he won't only judge Rodriguez on his Big Ten losses or Ohio State. He will look at what RR is working with. He is not going to reasonably expect any coach in America to come in with the defensive players we have and expect them improve significantly. Coaches don't succeed at this level playing mostly freshman and sophomores. Maybe he will look over at Harbaugh's success in his first 3 years at Stanford before hiring him and see that Harbaugh fielded a few atrocious defenses himself with more experienced players than RR had to deal with.
Maybe next he will go over why there has been so many players leaving the program and determine if Rich is at fault for so many of the players leaving on the defensive side of the ball. In my opinion he will see that there has been a lot of bad luck for the defensive side of the ball over the past few years. He will wonder if the situation can be rectified. I think he will be able to see that we have players returning from injuries and a lot of underclassmen getting a year older and realize that there is tremendous room for growth.
Next he might say has RR improved the team. Well on the side of the ball where we haven't had major injuries and player loss there has been overwhelming improvement. The team is ranked top ten nationally and returns most of it's players. Next maybe he will look at the records. RR has continually improved by at least 2 wins each year. He then might say hmm maybe 9 wins next year. Why fire someone who continually gets more wins with a young team that is in it's infant stages of growth? It would be a bad decision to fire someone who has not once shown regression in his coaching record.
November 24th, 2010 at 10:52 AM ^
Do you deliver the paper or are you just to young to remember when we had writers of merit,