The New Tagging System Further Erodes My "Enjoyment" of MGoBlog
There was a time in the "old days" when I actually liked this site. I discovered this blog during in its early days and at that time it was the only source of Michigan Football material on a daily basis.
Then things began to change...
The whole points and neg bang thing has largely ruined my posting experience. I find people post stuff simply to get up votes, basically kissing up to the board. There are too many "clever" and redundant posters. Restraint is not a virtue among many. Gaining points for simply posting encourages lost of meaningless comments.
At one time I had another account [I suppose I technically still have it] that I had from day one of the "account" era and when points came on board I thought they were a bad idea that would change how people post. It did. But I did manage to accumulate a rather large amount of points over time, a five figure number. Then I had a bad day and someone on the board annoyed me so I ended up spouting off and getting justifiably neg-banged. I am a big boy and can take my medicine, but then I got an automated message that because my one message had received a threshold number of negs [I am still not sure what that number is], that I would be reduced in points below the point where I was a "trusted user."
That pissed me off enough that I walked away from the blog for a while. I have a busy life and it was fairly easy after the first few days not to read the blog, but then during the jihad, came back but did not post anything, and because of that discovered that the rest of my points were being taken away because I had not posted for too long a period.
If in any way points = reputation, then the automatic systems of the blog had completely obliterated my reputation over one hissy post. I walked away again. Then after a while I thought I might start fresh and just read the news and dip into the diaries and the board only if something compelling came up worth commenting on. After pretty much a full season with my new identity, I have managed just a 150 or so points, have no reputation on the board and do not care anymore.
I used to enjoy posting in this community and as I am self employed, I enjoyed the regular banter and dialogue that the board used to provide me. But points and negging has really made me shrug when it comes to the diaries and board and in some ways to the blog as a whole. I read each main page story and sometime have a look at the comments, but for the most part, if it were not that this is the still the best place for Michigan Football news I would have said good riddance a while ago. Ever since Hoke has been hired Brian seems to be pissy [although in fairness that is starting to diminish]. Over all, though, it has been this stupid points system that has slowly ruined my experience of this web site.
I can understand the need to self police the board and comments, but if Brian is intent on making this system work there needs to be helpful categories such as:
troll, flame bate, idiotic, poorly written, repetitive, makes no sense, insightful, smart, funny, interesting, well written, informative, well researched, sublime, elegant, nails it and the like.
Also, it should take a number of negative grades to make something disappear, something like -5 or -10. That way it encourages people to both rate content and write stuff that people want to read [or just not write in the first place].
There should be no points simply for posting. Reputation should be based entirely on the evaluation of the community.
Like I said, the whole points thing has soured me on the this blog and this board, perhaps irreparably. The exceptions as posters are Misopigon, Magnus and Ctitown...all of whom I find actually add something when they post...
[Edit: now for some reason that i cannot figure out, I can no longer rate other posts, even if I wanted to...]
I haven't been on mgoblog very long so I don't know what things were like back in the good old days but I can tell you the amount of useful information on this site is amazing. Not sure who this TomVH guy is but I'd buy him a beer any day.
<br>Mgoblog is really pretty cool; The hate for Ohio State is genuine, the contempt for Notre Dame is heart warming. I'm glad to be here.
Welcome aboard. As for TomVH, his name is Tom Van Haaren, and his twitter page comes highly recommended:
Blue In South Bend I like your posts so much that when I am in South Bend for 2012 I am going to let you buy me a beer.
You may be drinking alone.
<br>
<br>But this fall in East Lansing...
This was a bit lengthy just to tell everyone you dislike Mgoblog due to the board.
I completely agree with the post. I've been reading the board for a while since before I was a member. When points actually mattered I was always hesitant to post due to the fact that if you posted some solid content you might end up being negged if someones opinion wasn't the same as yours. In the end it detered a good many people from truly posting worthy content that could actually keep a good conversation going and led to people trying too hard to be on the spot funny.
See, I hear people say this but I've never seen anyone really negged away because they posted legitimate content even if it was controversial. Now, I have seen people get negged for posting stuff like "RR failed this team because he didn't recruit Michigan Men" for the 1395th time. Sure, some idiots might dock you a couple of points here or there, but honestly the threshholds here are not that hard to maintain.
My point is, post away. If people constantly disagree with your ideas it either means you just have a different world view (which is fine) or your comments are lacking something fundamentally relevant.
not necessarily saying people get neg bombed for a post but just saying they run the risk of getting significant negs if against the grain of mass agreement. I don't necessarily see it a lot but I've seen it a fair enough amount to where it affected my posting a bit
I never understand the complaints about points - the threshold for posting is pretty low, so even if you were knocked down below that level comment a couple of times and then you'll be back in business. And I hate all of the "it was better back when" crap. I wasn't here for the Haloscan days, but I've been a poster/lurker for a couple of years and this site is hands-down the best source of UM/college sports coverage around. Yeah, sometimes there are some redundant posts and some tired memes, but that's the Internet for you. Brian, Tim, and Tom all produce top-notch news posts on a daily basis, and some of the MGoUsers produce great diaries and timely analysis you can't even find on the pay sites.
So yeah, sucks that the OP was negged and is unhappy with the direction of the site, but creating a post ON THAT SITE to rant about it seems a rather curious method for addressing those feelings.
I don't disagree that the OP feels the site is still worthwhile, but I also wonder why the crux of his/her argument (that the point system and tagging needs to be overhauled/better explained) couldn't have been discussed in a manner that wasn't "this place used to be awesome and then everyone ruined it" in tone. Also, it is a pet peeve of mine when people complain about being negged and presume that it was because their opinion was unpopular yet justified, while most times the reason for the negging was because they said something inflammatorry for effect.
wasn't the simple +/-1 system a whole lot simpler, and better?
My only complaint is that, as someone who doesn't have time to comment/moderate on the MGoBoard a whole lot, I'm still trying to figure out some of these new functions.
I thought the simpler up/down voting method was better -- really, it's not hard to figure out why something was a good or bad comment. But I'm not going to complain about it or anything. IMO, this is the best team-specific website you'll find anywhere, and whatever Brian wants to do to enhance MGoBlog is fine with me as long as he keeps churning out amazing Michigan content and coverage.
And I get it except during the season when the number of repeat/inane posts gets so ridiculously high that it is pretty tough to find relevant posts. So whatever it is the mods are doing to minimize posts from users who are too lazy to do a search of the board before they post is a good thing. Most other college sports boards are only a few degrees from 4chan in terms of the maturity & relevancy of posts, so keep on doing what you guys are doing. If someone wants 100 points so they can post the mods can take 100 from me and give it to them, but really if you can't get to that threshold you are doing something wrong.
if you can't get to that threshold you are doing something wrong.
Agreed wholeheartedly. Outside of the occasional pissing match where two people neg each other back and forth, this in a mature crowd. I can't think of any situations where a QUALITY post lost points, and if you're around long enough and not a troll or a moron (in which case this isn't the place for you), you'll pass the "trusted user" threshold -- and nothing else matters.
Got negged by two people the other day...that really hurt my feelings.
Ok, I've ALMOST never seen a quality post actually lose points. Personally, I love the "There are ..." posts.
I was a regular as far as back as the Haloscan days, and that was pretty much madness in terms of having any sort of coherent thread or conversation. The MGoBoard is actually very clean and well-organized overall.
Two things I would like to see modified: (1) Shifting each comment's "score" to some place more obvious and away from the title, and (2) more flexibility with the comment-display threshold (it appears that the current lowest possible threshold is -1, but I'd rather set it at like -5).
I really don't like the current rating system for a bunch of reasons. Here are a few: using a dropdown menu to categorize is kind of a pain; i don't really understand how posts get tagged, like if a post is tagged once as funny and once as insightful what happens; putting the +5 and -1 limits makes it hard to scan threads for really great or controversial comments... I wanna know where the action is.
There's no opposites for "insightful" and "interesting" -- maybe "dumb" and "pointless" would work. Replace the useless "overrated" and "underrated" with those two and it would be more useful for me.
As it stands, I usually don't have a choice that even generally describes my negativity toward a comment.
It is also not clear to me what I choose when I agree with an opinion, but don't want to post that I agree with it. I used to just +1. Now, all of these choices and none that just say "agree".
I guess I used to operate under the logic:
+1 = agree, funny / lmao, insightful / thanks for the information, or even disagree but appreciate your view point in the conversation
and
-1 = you sir are an ass, vehemently disagree, troll
(Suck up cat gifs didn't get anything from me.)
The point about points: everybody had their own logic, but by and large back before the implosion / iPhone only disaster, and before the complexity of these points cost your points and those points expire, it seemed like the point system self moderated the posts.
This new thing requires to much thinking now, but may grow on me with familiarity.
On the positive side, Brian is working to keep the blog "hip" with iPhone and Android apps and other improvements. I'll can deal with progress, because the underlying content and community -- especially for an M-fan in North Carolina -- is worth trying new things now and then.
I prefer to think of him by his One True Internet Name:
New Recent Hot Tom
I don't know where else to ask and I can't start threads, but whats happening with WTKA's website? The new site has been up for days yet there isn't a single podcast to listen to. Are they not going to let us listen to the shows later on cast anymore!?
I saw a notice somewhere that they were re-building the podcast page - the rest of the site has been redone.
I think from reading the blog for a while, I've been very impressed by how new users come on and post a shit-ton, get a bunch of points, then largely disappear. Some people seem to reply to every post and every comment, sometimes that's a benefit, and sometimes it's not. Consequentially, the mgoboard is hit or miss. no big deal. The reason most people are here is for the front page and the TomVH posts.
In general, worrying about points on a blog is a waste of time, but I do appreciate the OPs idea that points do have a negative side in that people post stupid things just to get points. I disagree that the system has ruined the blog. I do wonder how many less pointless posts there would be if Brian instituted a point ceiling, so that once you get 1000 points, you can only lose points for stupid comments. It will never happen though, so whatever.
Just becuase Brian has an opinion that doesn't agree with yours doesn't make him "pissy." It just makes him someone with an opinion different than yours. Besides, there are still plenty of subtle, smarmy, anti-RR bitching comments going on, too.
I don't agree with Brain 100 percent, but it IS his blog, and it is Brian who puts in the 80-100 hours a week or whatever it is to make it as good as it is. This sorta reminds me of something I used to say in my own coarse way until I heard a lot better version of it a month or two ago:
"If two people agree about everything, one is leading and the other is following."
As for points, I can take them or leave them. At best, they are the ultimate in self-moderation. At worst, they are like a bunch of high school kids deciding who to kick out of the pool. They usually work out more to the positive, but they are often decided more on emotion than anything resembling rationality.
Ultimately, though, Brian is allowing everyone in this community to participate in its editorial direction. That isn't all bad.
This post contributes nothing. Just posting for the sake of it.
To paraphrase: This "improvement to the point system" contributes nothing. Just "improving" for the sake of it.
Simple question: For all the legitimate back-and-forth debate about the value of a point system, does anyone think the recent "improvements" to the system do anything to enhance any benefits we were already getting from the existing point system? It all looks like unnecessary complication and clutter to me.
Now, get off my lawn.
Completely agree, but I moderated your post as "trolling" just because of how ridiculous the whole system is.
Such a great board, such an unnecessary change.
Now YOU get off MY lawn.
but I can't. My favorite side effect of the "new and improved" system is when someone says they can't moderate or plus/minus anymore -- which is true for me also -- and someone else responds by explaining that you just need to hit this or that button. Which, like duh, is great advice -- as long as the buttons show up in the first place. I've been poking the bejesus out of an imaginary "moderate" button, but strangely, nothing happens. Well, at least I've been cured of any tendency to over-vote.
Nice "flamebait", jerk
/s
Yes...
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I've been reading for a few months and one thing that sticks out is everyone trys to be 'that funny guy', trying to get points for making a completley absurd and lame comment. It just throws everything way off topic and ruins the core discussion. Seriously some people need to stfu and not make stupid comments.
what she said. Hey-O!
This would be a much better place without all the riff-raff. It's hard to sort through the actual content and all the nonsensical jokes/gifs/etc.
As much as I like the board for its variety of opinions, sometimes I think it would be better just to read the main page and the diaries. Brian, Tim, Misopogon, and TomVH all do a pretty good job of sorting out the good information from the useless stuff. I could probably get almost as much info simply from reading the main page and such, but since I don't live in Wolverine country, this (and TTB) are virtually my only opportunities to talk about Michigan football.
I think I will reach a point in the not-too-distant future when I will leave it up to the aforementioned guys to sift through the content for me. It will be a sad day, but frankly, this site is getting too big and too many people are clamoring for MGoPoints.
The thing is, MGoPoints keep some people around...
...and they drive others away. I'm not sure which mode would be a better for business to Brian, but I get the sense that points are necessary now that this site has so many readers and commenters. The fact that 186 (and counting) comments have been made on this one thread is an indication that the board would probably be unmanageable without some way to rein in trolling/immature posters.
is that you care.
All jest aside, the MGoPoint system is fuel for nihilism. Quality and meaning are subdued by the artificial value of quantity and mass-appeal. Much like human personalities, internet comments are most popular when they reach a supreme lack of depth. These comments can be comprehended by all; and whatever might not be comprehended will be substituted with cognitive adjuncts -- "ideals" of the weaker minds.
mgoblog was once a niche community of intellectuals. But the powers that be have not deterred the swarm of plebeian gawking at the majesty the can scarcely comprehend. My guess as to why is the same as with all movements -- profit motive. dollars are measured in quantity, not quality.
My dollars are measured in quality. It doesn't do me any good to have a bunch of $1 bills if they're too crinkled to be accepted by the Snickers machine.
That is more or less where the place where I have come to, Magnus. I read the main page daily. Then some days I have a little extra time or am procrastinating on something and read a few threads that look like they could be interesting. It used to be that the threads were a constant companion throughout the day, relieving the boredom of being a one-man shop. It was like sitting in the coffee shop or the pub all day with a group of buddies talking about the football program we love. But now there is just too much, as you say, "riff-raff, to wade through. And coming to that realization that the site has changed enough that most days all I want to do is read the main pages and get on with my day is a sad thing. I miss that rowdy bistro from the "old days." It was sophisticated, informed and fun. Maybe points are just a sign of change, but in watching how things have changed since their introduction it seems to me that through the law of unintended consequences that they are the "problem."
I guess I took the time to vent in the OP on the chance that there is some solution that will be able to salvage enough of the character and spirit of the "old days" while allowing site to move forward with substantially increased readership and participation. It would have to be a system that does not reward posting for the sake of posting, that does not penalize people when they are unable to choose not to post for a period of time, a system that is easy and quick to use and a system that does allow the best content to come to the forefront.
You forgot to mention me, bro.
[insert Big Lebowski reference]
Has anyone found a way yet to have threads display newest-to-oldest? Am I the only one seeing oldest-to-newest?