As a victors club member, my frustration with Dave Brandon and his cronies have already affected my giving rate. I am 5050 at the moment if I am going to pay my PSL for 2014.
fair point that
As a victors club member, my frustration with Dave Brandon and his cronies have already affected my giving rate. I am 5050 at the moment if I am going to pay my PSL for 2014.
If you end up not paying your PSL, I hope you let the Victors Club and the Athletic Department know exactly why you're not paying. They need to know how their policies are affecting their customers and why people are making the decision not to renew.
Oh they will know...Dave Brandon's regime seems to be bent on screwing over the everyday fan in favor of the corporate donor.
I know people have listed Dave Brandon's email in the past, but I cannot find it (and of course he's hidden on the directory). Mary Sue Coleman's email is firstname.lastname@example.org. Hunter Lochmann's (Chief Marketing Officer, the one who broke the news to Central Student Goverment) is email@example.com.
I've gotten through to Hunter on numerous occasions, just by calling the ticket office at 734-764-0247 and asking for him by name. The majority of the time you'll have to leave a voicemail, and he'll call back, but on the phone records it'll be the University switchboard so I can't give you his direct line.
You can contact the Development Office/Victors Club at (734) 764-7131 or firstname.lastname@example.org.
Or you can raid your local Ann Arbor Torch and Pitchfork Co. /s
I had season tickets throughout the Ellerbe years and then they switched it to GA for my senior year. It was the opposite problem (not enough interest) but they still found a way to screw us.
The question is: given that 57% of season ticket holders attended any given game last year, what are the odds that students will actually be turned away? To make it even more specific, what percentage of the season ticket holders attended the marquee games last year? If they never got more than 66% (3000 of 4500) attendence at a non-MSU game, then it's not really a problem.
I don't see any difference between this policy and the airlines' policy of overbooking (although don't we all just love airline service?). Say they sold 3001 tickets for 3000 seats. Nobody would have a problem with it, because the odds that every single season ticket holder (or the person they sold it to) will show up is basically nil.
What people are enraged about, therefore, is the scale of the overbooking, not overbooking per se. I would hope that the AD has done some statistical analysis to ensure that 3000 seats is in fact above what we can reasonably expect student attendence to be, even for a marquee matchup.
If I'm wrong, however, I'll gladly raid Ann Arbor Torch and Pitchfork with everybody else.
When an airline overbooks it offers the person who got screwed a sweet deal. I don't see the athletic department offering free tickets in the future to make up for their screw up. Honestly I can't figure out how people can attempt to defend the athletic department on this.
Fun fact: it actually isn't required to offer you a sweet deal. They normally do so they can get volunteers and avoid an awkward situation. However, if nobody wants to bump, and they have to play "Uncle Sam wants you", you get nuthin.
The part I don't like is the fact that if you miss two games you said you'd go to, you forfeit the rest. Doesn't that seem a bit vindictive?
That's actually incorrect. What you're describing is Involuntary Denied Boarding situation and there is required compensation for that, which is actually a lot more than someone who volunteers in an overbooked situation (VDB).
The analogy would be that if they found you another seat in the arena, nearly as good as your student section seat than they wouldn't have to give you any compensation.
"No compensation is due if your airline finds alternate transportation that will get you to your next stopover point or final destination within one hour after the scheduled arrival time of your original flight. For flights getting you to your next point or destination more than one hour but less than two hours, cash compensation equivalent to 200% of the one-way fare on the flight you were bumped off to a maximum of $650. Flights getting you to your next point or destination more than two hours from the original time will net you cash compensation of 400% of the one-way fare to a maximum of $1,300."
I knew people who would purposely book popular flight times around the holidays for this reason. They were more flexible with their travel plans and about half the time would volunteerfor delayed boarding and either get an upgrade, a free ticket or some cash.
I'll concede both points.
I think, though, this reinforces the point that it's not the overbooking that is the problem, it's the way they're going about the overbooking.
The best part is that on April 23rd, they sent out an email that said that everyone who ordered by the May 3 deadline would be guaranteed a ticket. Does anyone have a screenshot of that mgoblue page (http://www.mgoblue.com/tickets/students-bkm.html) from then?
It looks like sometime between the deadline and May 22, they added this clause "Please note, due to potential demand and the very limited available seating in Crisler Center, there may be a limit on student tickets."
I'm not the best at this computer science stuff, so if it was there before the deadline, I'll eat my words. I hope someone has a screenshot though.
Loyal fans like me who went to all the games the last couple of years get fucked. Unreal.
Tis actually rewards your ilk....
everyone should just take up the AD on their refund offer, cause you know f them.
I don't really understand the outrage. As others have said, this is what a lot of big time basketball programs do, if you want a big time basketball program at Michigan you have to deal with the consequences of increased demand.
To take what A2 said a step further, Duke makes you camp out for 24 straight hours where anytime they blow an airhorn you need to run out of your tent and report for roll call. This is just to be entered into a lottery to get tickets and usually you get them for just a few games, and no guarantee what those games are.
Lets wait for the season to play out and see how many students are actually denied tickets to games they want to go to before we bemoan the total unfairness of the plan.
We made it to the title game. I get it. But we aren't Duke or even Indiana yet. Duke has been successful for a LONG time and Indiana has an insane fanbase in a basketball crazy state. Of course, as the team gets more popular and closer to elite status, ticket systems will have to adjust. But shit let's not be delusional and think we made the jump to elite that fast.
They oversold football in 1997 (my freshman year). Most of the freshman got 3 or 4 games. It sucked, but at least we got a refund for what we didn't get.
Do you still pay the full price regardless of how many games you claim?
Dave Brandon screwing students again. What a shock. Sell season tickets and then take them back? With no reduction in price? How the hell does it matter if the student goes or not? What on earth makes this maniac think this is OK?
I ordered 3 pizzas but they only delivered 2 since they don't think I'm hungry enough for 3. Well guess what I'm not paying for 3 f***i*** pizzas am I pizza boy?
Seriously, how can this stand?
Remember when Brandon hiked student ticket prices since "students needed to make more of an investment" and it wasn't "about money at all"? Well that worked for the Akron game, right? So where's the refund?
What can we do to get rid of this guy? Can you imagine what he'll "accomplish" over the course of 5 years? 10? When are we going to say enough is enough? Stop the madness!
So I've been going to nearly all the games for the past 3 years (which includes my freshman year, when we were projected to finish either last or second to last in the B1G) only to potentially not get a ticket because some dude that jumped on the bandwagon and probably can't name more than 3 players on the team clicked "claim" before me or something.
What a load of garbage.
My opinion of this is largely based on when the games are going to be available to claim. If they put the "start time" when I am in class, then I will be furious.
A positive aspect of this is that students who can't wait in line before the game (for instance, they could have class in the afternoon) will still be able to go to it. While it would have been better for them to stop selling tickets once they met capacity, this could have been a lot worse.
So I'm as anti-Dave Brandon money grab as anyone, but I really don't have a huge problem with it. If you go to the games (or make sure that someone scans your ticket) you say you will, you probably won't have an issue. If you say you aren't gonna go to games and don't go, you won't lose the ability to go to future ones, but you'll lose priority for the MSU game so you might miss that, which seems fair. Any student who is a big enough fan to be on mgoblog at 11 PM on a school night is probably not going to get screwed over by this policy.
If you're that irate about this, I'm sure you can ask for a refund, and probably they'll give it to you. It'll at least open up more seats.
Why is it a risk though? I feel like if your even halfway cognizant of what games you signed up for it really should not be a problem at all to avoid ever getting a strike against you. These are Michigan students, and this kind of organization isn't exactly rocket science. It should be pretty damn easy for any UofM student to handle.
And I can't make you see how this is right, but I won't put how I feel about it in such crass terms.
FWIW, I don't like a ton of what DB does. I think the general admission seating was poorly executed and could be better organized. I think that some people dislike change so much that they will flip out at any alteration in the world around them, even a necessary one. Something had to be done, plain and simple. No matter what happened people would have cried over it. If you're this pissed off about it, return your tickets and let someone else who wants to go have your seat, or stop whining.
Because it isn't right.
Invoking Bo while bitching about a policy that is in place bc too many of your peers only show up to bro up for big games is a joke. You look like a petulant child.
Consider changing your avatar to a maize and blue sheep or lemming.
If anyone disagrees with it Che they're just, you know, goin with The Man
Why you're standing up for ~1500 ppl/game who never show except for msu is beyond me. If you're a bball fan, this is perfect for you be you already go to games and you want your team benefiting from a full home crowd. You'd rather have no home student crowd advantage against an inevitable squeaker than god forbid your casual fan friend not getting a ticket
What about the student who didnt miss a single home game in 4 years of undergrad but is now in grad school so doesnt always have the time during the week to make every game? Should they be penalized and not able to go to the big games then?
I see ya, and I was in that boat of going to 5 years of games missing only 1 or 2 prior to grad school.
I was one of those 300 in the bleachers for every game of the Amaker-Beilein transition period. I still have ticket stubs to all those games - nearly a hundred.
You know what I did during grad school? I didn't buy basketball student tickets. It was tough, but that's life. I had to make a choice. Sure, I would have loved to go to Saturday morning games. But I knew I wasn't going to be able to make Wednesday 9pm games, so I didn't buy the tickets.
Sometimes you gotta make tough calls.
This post has nothing to do with this new policy, by the way, which I think is ok, but being handled poorly (late). However, I recognize that I was one of the undergrads that never missed a game and built my schedule around the MBB schedule so it would affect me the least.
And claimed any viewpoint not his was shitting on his grave. That's inherently a loyalty argument.
The core problem is the school could sell these prime tix for 4x the value they sell them to students and students a) don't use them, b) fail to provide a home court advantage as a result, c) resell them and/or d) don't reward the program with their attendance. This policy will affect who? Tom the guy who misses 5 games all season due to tests or Jeff, the guy who misses 15 but TOTALLY IS THERE FOR MSU DUDE BC FUCK THEM!
This is to avoid rampant StubHub/resale and gaping holes in the stands. Until the ticket office says the 1500 overage won't result in a refund of one game to 1500, I'm not seeing one issue.
No this is not to avoid rampant stubhub resale and gaping holes in the stands. Is about collecting 4500 ticket sales for 3000 seats. (and a policy to try to cover up this one - most important fact)
They didn't just oversell the bad games. They oversold all the games. They sold tickets for 4500 people to 3000 seats. People who bought tickets for the good games CAN'T go! I swear the ad office must be paying people to defend this policy because it makes no sense.
This is the major issue I see with this policy. I'm going to try to make sense of this with the car dealer metaphor that was being used elsewhere in the thread.
If you pay for your season tix, and you attend games, but the game you want to go to more than any other is MSU. For whatever reason, you are unable to secure a ticket for yourself for MSU. You receive a refund for the value of one student ticket, but the value of that particular ticket is in reality much greater than 1/17th of the total price of your ticket package.
Isn't this like paying for a car, but then you stand a chance of being told "Well, you can't drive during rush hour, but here's 1/24th of your money back since you can't drive for that one hour per day." If the primary reason for buying the car was so that you could drive home from work at five, it's nice that you can still take it to the store, but you are going to be pretty pissed that you can't drive at the time the car offers you the greatest subjective value.
Is my logic wrong? I'm happy to hear arguents to change my mind, but this is the primary issue I have with this policy.
Because even if you want to go to all the games - there is no guarantee that you can! It is a risk. Why are you missing this?
In theory, I agree 100%. However, if you went to most of the bball games last year, it's pretty clear that a huge number of students don't care about paying. I'm not even joking when I say that there were a serious number of unclaimed season tickets going into the Indiana game, which was the last home game of the season.
Not saying there won't be problems, but there is some logic behind it.
So you get a refund now on your tickets. If you don't use your tickets, then what does it matter that you already paid for them? What are you losing by not having the tickets for future games? If you do use your tickets, then you're getting your money's worth for them. Fact is I'm fairly certain we oversold tickets last year as well, it's just that since during a year where we spent the entire year in the top 10, we only had 46% student attendance. Other than the Arizona and maybe Indiana games, I doubt we'll see much problems with this policy.
That's a bad metaphor. I implies that whether or not you drive the car doesn't positively or negatively affect the dealership and other car owners. If you buy a ticket and you don't show up, then your wasting a seat that some other fan could have filled. It affects the other fans who are not students (or students who do not have season tickets). It affects the AD because it's money they could have made selling a different ticket and concessions/merch etc. It affect the fans and the team at the game, because people not showing up negatively affects the environment of Crisler Arena.
Furthermore, the last situation "I do everything I'm supposed to and get screwed over." is probably not going to happen. First priority is based on attendance and there just are not going to be 3000 students who attend every game. We can barely get that many to be there for kickoff for MAC football games, much less for South Carolina St basketball games on a weeknight.
Further, was it intended for regular use to take grandma to the store but instead used to taxi friends and take grandma when it was worth it?
See I can use weak metaphors too!
Just becuase you invested 40,000 in the car company doesn't mean the dealership has seen a penny, the dealership is an economically seperate entity than the car company.
(to break from the metaphor for a bit, I think student absolutely should be given free tickets. However, it should be noted that none of our tuition goes to the AD, rather it's its own economically seperate entity. However, if you would prefer our AD make less money, we could go with the Rutgers model, where almost everything their AD does is paid by the main university and tuition.)
Your right, because I wouldn't want to go to one of the best universities in the nation if I can't see every single basketball game. The sole reason why I attended UofM and paid my tuition was so I can get student tickets.
On a related note, why can't I watch an Olympics game for a discounted price or even? I just want to watch my fellow American citizens play for the country. I pay taxes, I should get cheap tickets.
Actually, you probably would if the Olympics were hosted in the US. I can't find anything about the 96 Olympics, but look at the 2014 World Cup. Brazilian citizens get a discount on tickets, and Brazilian students and senior citizens get a large discount on tickets. So yes, this does exist.
I really like that idea, but I don't think it's true. I remember looking up Salt Lake City Olympics tickets prices in 2002, and remembering them being super expensive (almost definitely no american discount). My guess is that Brazil is doing that so there are actually some Brazillian fans in the crowd, rather than having it be filled with fans from wealthier nations.
Also your 40k is for an education genius, not to act like a spoiled brat regarding sports entertainment. Does UM owe you a 12 pack of beer each Fri so you can capitalize on your 40k investment after classes.
Jesus do you make my degree look bad
A product that you've gotten at a severly discounted rate, that you could probably make up for in the investment by selling just three of the games next year.
What about alumni donors who've dropped your tuition plus 80k? Should they pay full price?
You're seriously throwing punches underwater man. Tuition is for a degree, not a discount card a la Sams Club