Mandel's take is Pryor made have made the wrong choice in that Forcier already looks more polished than Pryor did and that Pryor may NEVER be a good fit in Tressel's offense. A previous post mentioned that Pryor may be the Antoine Joubert of college football... I still think its WAY too early to tell, but if tOSU's struggles (or at least Pryor's) continue, expect more of this.
New National Meme-- Shoud Terrell Pryor have gone to Michigan?
passer to Tate. Tate had all of the best coaching when he was a kid and Pryor was really raw as a passer coming out of school.
It's like comparing apples and aardvarks.
or in this case, when in front of a microphone, a man and a... I don't know what you call this?...
“Everyone does—kills people, murders people, steals from you, steals from me." -- Terrelle Pryor
I've neither killed, murdered nor stolen from people.
I think it will prove out that the football gods were shining down on us when Pryor went to Armpit U. Tate is for real. He has an arm like Henne, the mind of Brady and the feet of, well, Forcier!
Just remember, one game at a time. We have a VERY bright future, but one game at a time.
...but if Pryor was blue, we wouldn't have Forcier.
The Forcier can have a strong influence on the weak-minded. Only three weeks until State.
Whether it's a valid comparison is beside the point. This is fantastic PR for our system. I hope we hear more of this.
Oh exactly! If I remember correctly, Pryor chose TUOS in large part because he believed he could be a better passer under the Sweater than under RR. Two games into his collegiate career Tate has already passed for more yards in a single game and had more attempts than Pryor has had now in 13 or 14 games.
Pryor was an idiot. I was under the impression that he thought Tressel would make him more NFL-ready than RR would. Pryor is a perfect fit for the spread option, but insists on trying to turn himself into a dropback, NFL QB, which he isn't going to do.
As it turns out, though, I agree with those who thing UM got the better of the deal. Forcier and Robinson are "all in for Michigan;" Pryor is all in for himself. A good team will almost always beat a collection of talented individuals. Pryor will be selling cell phones at the mall in five years.
For all of his faults Pryor is still supremely athletically gifted. He will be playing on Sundays in the future. I wouldn't rule out a Clarett-like meltdown, but barring that or injury the NFL will find a use for his physical tools even if it isn't at QB (WR is a strong possibility).
It's slightly pompous and only mildly condescending to say a 20 year old kid has a future selling phones at the mall, but hey that's the internet for you.
He's a big kid. Might follow the path of Matt Jones...college QB to NFL receiver to felony arrest.
Well, honestly, I think Forcier has a better arm and his size (smaller) is actually beneficial to being able to weasel around the pocket more-so than Pryor. Last year I was lamenting the fact that we didn't get Pryor but watching Forcier work in this offense I can honestly say I'd rather have him.
I was bitter too last year over it all, but it almost makes this that much sweeter. I hope they run these stories everyday, it will only help us recruit better.
With the Vick thing and other less than endearing qualities, I'm glad he didn't come to Michigan. I may feel differently if HE had STARTED in our system last year, I'll admit that...
OSUcks offense does seem to be the wrong fit, but if he has hopes of playing at the next level as a QB, maybe it was an informed decision. Vince Young - the comparison we hear most often - hasn't worked out so well in the NFL after playing great in a spread offense.
Buckeyes are SOOO 2008.
I would've said two thousand and late.
Troy Smith won a Heisman in Tressel's offense, I hardly think that's the issue. And calling Forcier more polished than Pryor is a function largely of how he was coached in high school, I mean the kid's been here for eight months. RR can coach but y'know, so can Tressel, he's got a pretty proven record with quarterbacks.
If Forcier is looking better than Pryor right now then it might just be because Forcier is better than Pryor.
"RR can coach but y'know, so can Tressel, he's got a pretty proven record with quarterbacks."
The NFL disagrees with you
for the QB position. Which QBs does Tressel have in the NFL? Troy Smith, maybe (but he's a 2nd to 3rd string guy, who looks like he won't play, with Flacco around).
Pryor would have been a better fit, skill wise at Michigan. RR runs the offense that best suits Pryor's ability to run and complete shorter, easier passes.
However, given that he did not want to go to Michigan and help create a dynasty from the ground up, and his Vick antics/ comments, I'd rather have Tate. Tate wanted and planned to come to Michigan when we have Beaver and Newsome committed. That means a lot.
...wants to come to Michigan as badly as Tate did over a guy who has to be sweet-talked any day.
Putting aside the issue that the NFL wouldn't know what to do with a Pryor or a Tate Forcier, Rodriguez hasn't exactly lit the NFL on fire with the QBs he's coached.
Now, I don't neg him in the least for this. College coaching jobs are not as minor-league talent developers for the NFL mindset. Their job is to coach their teams to victory.
Are we talking NFL f=or college? Using the NFL as a measure for a college QB's success is pretty dumb.
Normally I would agree with you, but TP gave that as a reason for his commitment to tOSU.
Pryor at Michigan == Running 70% of the time out of the shotgun and being moved to wideout in the NFL.
Pryor at OSU == Under center, passing 50% of the time with at least a shot to develop into an NFL ready quarterback. Just because Troy Smith (too small) and Craig Krenzel (just not good enough) failed in the NFL, that doesn't mean Tressel's offense is less conducive to becoming an NFL QB.
When has RichRod ever run a QB 70% of the time?
Pryor just made a short sighted decision. If he wanted to be a QB in the NFL, you could argue that playing for RichRod would have showcased his specific talent better than Ohio State's offensive scheme. OSU is trying to fit him into their system and thus making him look mediocre in both facets of his game - in passing b/c he's not developed enough and in running b/c he's not being used as a featured runner enough.
Yes, Pryor could already run, but are Tressel & Co. really teaching him to read defenses with an eye toward being a running threat? No. Also, the Buckeye coaching staff has not developed his passing ability at all. He's had too much game experience to still be throwing 50% completion rate.
Just b/c he's the QB who TP is compared to, don't forget that Vince Young got much better after his second year starting so TP's troubles could be the basis for a million "look how far he's come" articles next year, or even in January this year. As for it being better for him to come to Michigan, there's too many other what-ifs in that scenario for this article to be anything than concern trolling.
Didnt VY redshirt his first year. That extra year helped him and TP did/does not have that luxury
Good point, and I'm pretty sure Brown ended up modifying the Texas offense (going to shot gun as the base set) to accomodate Young in his RS-Sophomore year.
OSU threw TP to the wolves, and now he's paying for it. Funny how things like this have such a sweet flipside.
Simply put the sky is falling in Columbus and the sky is the limit in Ann Arbor. I hope this perception will help our recruiting since our alumni dont pay as well.
The Antoine Joubert of OSU Football?
So does that mean he will wear fur coats around town, play a one dimensional game, snort a lot of blow and get fat?
but he was no Demetrius Calep. (Okay, I have no idea how Calep dressed but I've always loved his name and he was a pretty funny looking dude, if I recall ... I'm imagining him in MC Hammer-ish baggy lame ... thanks for letting me have a chuckle.)
Calep can't touch this.
Antoine Joubert is actually a really nice guy. I was at the Kinko's at 12 and Northwestern a few years ago and he went out of his way to help me with something. I noticed his resume said Antoine Joubert on it and we struck up a conversation about the good old days.
Joubert was unfortunate to reach a high level of basketball ability at about 14. Joubert got a lot out of his average basketball ability. Joubert played many seasons in Europe. If "the judge" had not been so overly hyped he would have been looked at as an overachiever IMHO.
I attended Joubert's last game in a Michigan uniform against Carolina down in Charlotte in the 2nd round of the NCaa tournament in 1980 whatever it was.
Mandel is saying what I've been saying for the past year. Pryor went to OSU because he doesn't care if he is a prolific college QB. He went to OSU because he wants to be a pro QB. I guess in that respect, he made the right choice.
Seems I've forgotten all those Tressel coached NFL QB's. Oh, right. Joe Jermaine. And Troy Smith! The next Drew Brees.
Craig Krenzel, I don't think Tressel ever coached Germaine. Justin Zwik (sp) was his big time QB that never panned out either. Zwik was supposed to be the messiah for them. Even though they were both (him and Smith) 4 stars per Rivals.
How many NFL quarterbacks has RichRod produced? He who is without sin, et al.
shaun king and the jury is still out on pat white so i kinda agree with you. But Tressel has had much better talent at his disposal than RR.
Shaun King's year as a starter is pretty much equal to Krenzel's weird tenure as the Bears starter.
Yes, he's had more talent but he hasn't had a lot of great college quarterbacks. Guys like Zwick were flameouts before they even left Ohio State.
No matter what Pryor should or should not have done, I'm just glad Tate is a Wolverine!! Go Blue!!!
Of course TP should have picked UM, but you know, he makes poor decisions and stuff.
...if Pryor had come to Michigan, the idea of Forcier displacing Pryor for the starting job, then Pryor eventually transferring to Albuquerque Normal would have been a hoot. LOL
dance on OSU's grave just yet
Seriously, they played a great game against one of the best teams in the country and lost by a field goal, albeit at home. They're ahead of us by a non-trivial margin.
I think Mandel's points about coming up big on the big stage is a good one when comparing Pryor to Forcier, but OSU's D looked pretty good, and I suspect their offense will get going eventually.
Your sig line quote: from "Dead Man?" Iggy Pop?
I don't think he will ever answer that.
I think Tate is the real deal. I also think Pryor, even with his physical skills, may not have football "smarts". It takes a special gift, combined with lots of practice, to make that snap judgment as to when to throw or run as well as the where to throw. Tate, with much less experience has this, Pryor does not, at least not yet. Will he ever get ir? Time will tell.
Remember though, we were playing Notre Dame, OSU was playing USC and, other than their usual style of snatching defeat from the jaws of victor (thinking Texas too) played well.
The one thing that scares me about Tate is his size. Pryor, I would think, can take the pounding. Don't know yet about Tate.
or jus old. love the Antoine Joubert reference. I remember watching him play on tv his senior year when his team was in state championship game (i think they won?) and all the hype about taking UofM to the Big Dance.
Antoine Joubert...the legend of over-expectation lives!
It seems like there are 3 sub-questions here, and FWIW here are my answers:
1. Did Pryor make the wrong decision? After 1+ seasons at tUoOS, plus seeing what UM's offense is doing in year 2, I give this a tentative yes.
2. Is Tate better than Pryor? Uh, well certainly in throwing the ball. But dear God, can you imagine seeing Pryor running the spread option with Minor? There would be urine all over the defensive backfield.
3. Would you rather have Tate than Pryor? All in all, yes. First, I like the versatility of Tate, in that it's more fun to watch a football game where everything from the read option to deep go routes is in the play book. Not sure Pryor would be able to handle all that.
Then, too, I feel like Tate-as-actual-UM-player is more likeable than Pryor-as-hypothetical-UM-player is (would have been?). While it is undeniably true that everybody does murder and steal, after seeing both be interviewed recently, I just like Tate more.
Pryor didn't come here and Tate did. Enough with all the hypothetical questions and comparisons. I am more than happy with how the QB position is looking for the future with Tate, Shoelace, and Gardner and Jones coming in.
Sure, Pryor had that whole "deer in the headlights" thing on the final drive against USC, but the guy is a phenomenal athlete. He's still 10-2 as a starter (12-3 in games played) and a big, strong dude with great speed. Most 6-6, 240 lb players find a spot on the line, at TE if they have the hands. If he can't get himself organized upstairs, that may be exactly where TP is headed (god help us...).
Forcier may be shorter, skinnier, and with less speed, but the guy's a quarterback. He makes the reads, makes the passes, makes the plays. Troy Smith was similar, so far TP is not. Pryor has a lot of work to be an NFL ready QB, on and off the field. I think there's little doubt, however, that he's an NFL ready athlete.
The greatest benefit of an article like this is to squash some of that "run-first spread" negative recruiting. Braxton Miller is the next, great duel threat guy who'll be fed that line of bull. If he's watching Forcier throw for 240 yards every week, it should fall with a dull thud.
I can't take you seriously if you really think that TP is going to the OL...
TE would be a decent spot for him (technically a line position). He showed off his hands against Texas last season and certainly has the size and speed. No, I don't see him lining up at center at any time. Point is, he may not be draftable as a QB due to passing and intelligence issues. I want you to take me seriously...
Am I wrong in thinking that RR would have used a run-first spread with Pryor - while devoloping his passing? Think Bionic version of Pat White. (2*)
The beauty of Tate is he can run just as much and as well as he can throw. TP is run first, pass second. I'll take Tate for confusing the defense. Who in our history has ever had the kind of start Forcier has?
Believe it or not, John Navarre did. He led the nation in passing efficiency after his first two games (against cupcakes). His performance then fell off a cliff against UCLA, though. I don't think that will happen to Forcier.