New Hoke comments, Q&A (Monday AM) on mgoblue.com
The regularly scheduled weekly interview with Hoke on the Mich football website was just released a few minutes ago and has new comments on the incident. Among other things, he comments that the medical staff said "Yeah, he can go" and that he was medically cleared to go on that play. Relevant section is below:
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Q. What is your quarterback situation moving forward, with Saturday starter Shane Morris and Devin Gardner, who started the first four games?
A. Well, number one, we would never put a quarterback who was hurt (in there). That would never happen. As far as where we're at with it, we usually don't talk about injuries and stay away from them. But this has kind of become an issue to some degree, and Shane Morris has got a leg injury, and that's why we pulled him from the game. We'll see where he's at.
On the down where Devin's helmet came off, there was a discussion about the timeout with the referee that I wanted to take to buy him back into the game. When I talked to the referee -- because he kind of came to the sideline -- and he said, 'No.' So, a couple seconds later the line judge comes up and says, 'Now, you can buy a timeout.' But by that time, Shane was already back in the football game.
(Shane) was on the bench and (senior football athletic trainer) Paul Schmidt was looking at his leg, and (reserve quarterback) Russell (Bellomy) was there. Russell is signaling in, him and the other quarterbacks. And when Shane heard his name, the medical staff said, 'Yeah, he can go.' And he went out on the field. We'd never put a kid out there who wasn't capable. He was medically cleared to go in on that play.
http://www.mgoblue.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/092914aaa.html
September 29th, 2014 at 12:23 PM ^
it isn't even at all about whether he actually had a concussion or not......it is whether they could have even assesed him for a concussion, which based on what 99.99% of the people watching saw as a distinct possibility, in the amount of time between the hit (regardless of Morris staying in the game an additional play right after), and before he re-entered the game....there simply was not enough time to determine if a concussion occured.....I believe there was 90 some seconds between and it is a simple fact that in now way could they have determined whether Shane was at risk or not......thus there really is no defense of returning him to the game. The fact that he COULD have had a concussion and was never properly evaluted and returned to the field of play is the issue at hand. Proper, modern protocol for any potential head injury mandates an assessment at the very least.....it did not occur and by any measure I have seen the time difference is irrefutable evidence of that.
Please find me an accepted, certified head injury assessment protocol that can be accomplished in the time period between Morris coming off the field and going back on.
Asking a player if they are concussed is absolutely not an acceptable answer here, because a player, especially one that may have been popped super hard and not thiunking straight, who has been trained to fight-through/play hurt, etc., is about the least reliable source for whether or not they are okay. This is the very reason to have the protocol in the first place.
Concussion/no concussion is a moot point....as they simply could not have known at the time.
September 29th, 2014 at 11:04 AM ^
Here is the problem with that -
When a student athlete shows any signs, symptoms or behaviors consistent with a concussion, the athlete shall be immediately removed from athletic participation until a thorough sideline he ad injury assessment can be performed by the Team Physician and/or staff Certified Athletic Trainer.
That didn't happen.
It doesn't matter whether it was a concussion, or whether there was an actual blow to the head - he showed signs and behaviors consistent with a concussion and wasn't immediately removed from play.
The actual injury is immaterial, the handling was egregiously incompetent whether he was concussed or not.
September 29th, 2014 at 8:20 AM ^
None of us are sure. But we saw plenty to assume it was possible, and the coaches/medical staff definitely saw it too, because they were there.
But despite very clear NCAA guidelines on the subject, they chose not to pull him after that hit, and chose not to have him undergo a concussion protocol.
So either he wasn't concussed, and they got really lucky. Or he was concussed, and they put a kid's life in danger. Either way they were incredibly negligent, and are now being incredibly obstinate and cynical.
September 29th, 2014 at 8:31 AM ^
they were looking at his leg, and not his head. So I guess millions of people mis-saw what we saw.
It's all over folks - move along - nothing to see here but a really sucky season of "Michigan" football.
September 29th, 2014 at 8:28 AM ^
Or they knew down on the field that the only reason he stumbled was because of his ankle injury, which is entirely possible.
I'm not saying that IS the case. But watching it on TV doesn't tell the whole story. I've had players lay on the ground for a bit after a play. They look like they're concussed...and it turns out they got the wind knocked out of them because they landed on the football. There can be multiple explanations, and the people on the field generally have a better idea of what happened than we do.
September 29th, 2014 at 8:32 AM ^
September 29th, 2014 at 8:36 AM ^
Okay. Well, I guess there should be an injury timeout after every play so 22 trainers can rush onto the field and check every player for a concussion. Because there are about 10 collisions going on during every play that aren't focused on by the camera.
September 29th, 2014 at 8:43 AM ^
September 29th, 2014 at 9:02 AM ^
in that I don't think he was concussed, but after a hit to the head he should have been assessed, plain and simple. You're right that there are multiple collisions going on every play, but very few are as violent as hits on qb's because most times they aren't even aware they are going to get hit. A hit to the head should be assessed every time just like in hockey.
September 29th, 2014 at 9:15 AM ^
and that's what Shane took.
September 29th, 2014 at 9:25 AM ^
And all this time I thought you weren't an idiot...
I can't believe people seriously think he almost fell over because of his ankle. His head droops down and his whole body wobbles and he just sort of leans against Braden. He's also been walking around on that bad ankle all game, and then suddenly after a huge hit to his fucking face his ankle sort of seizes up like it hasn't done all game and like ankle sprains don't do. If he dropped very suddenly and holds his ankle that's one thing. I really don't see how anyone with any basic experience of being dizzy or having a sprained ankle can reasonably say that looks like an ankle problem.
September 29th, 2014 at 9:28 AM ^
I know. This part is amazing to me. If you want to argue that he didn't have a concussion and that when Hoke says he was cleared to play and that was part of it, fine. If you're seriously trying to say that what we saw came from an ankle injury or that its more likely that he "had the wind knocked out of him" after begin blasted in the chin and having his head slam into the turf, I'm at a loss.
But there are people upvoting Magnus up and down this thread....I can practically hear the mouth breathing.
September 29th, 2014 at 10:09 AM ^
And did you see on the play where he returned that he was limping so badly that he could barely hand off the ball?
September 29th, 2014 at 11:28 AM ^
"so he was limping so badly that he could barely hand off the ball". that's the defense? if he could barely walk, how the hell was he cleared to play? concussion aside?
September 29th, 2014 at 12:30 PM ^
Isn't that the issue, though? It's not worth all this discussion if he's out there on a bum ankle. Plenty of people have tried to play on gimpy ankles. The big issue that's causing such a ruckus is the head thing.
If you want to insist that this would be such a big story if the limp is the only potential issue, then I think you're very misguided.
September 29th, 2014 at 9:14 AM ^
You're dug in to your argument now, so I don't expect you to give ground. But you have to admit that that was a pretty brutal helmet-to-helmet and uncharacterstic of contact made on a typical play. You might see one hit like that per game. If that.
There's a reason it's being played across national news outlets.
September 29th, 2014 at 9:25 AM ^
Well, I guess there should be an injury timeout after every play so 22 trainers can rush onto the field and check every player for a concussion.
Your complete lack of awareness at some of the idiocy you spit out never ceases to amaze me. Shane Morris took a hard illegal hit to the chin and got up wobbly. Maybe that was entirely as a result of his leg injury. But given the circumstances, you check. Immediately. Sorry if that makes football a little soft from your perspective.
September 29th, 2014 at 10:09 AM ^
It's called sarcasm. The point is that play isn't going to be stopped and/or the trainers aren't going to check every time there's a hard hit.
September 29th, 2014 at 10:38 AM ^
Thank you for reaffirming my first point.
September 29th, 2014 at 8:41 AM ^
September 29th, 2014 at 8:27 AM ^
Cmon now you're being pedantic to question if there was a head injury.
1. Minny hit Morris almost face mask to face mask
2. Morris was decked, writhing in pain
3. Morris clearly was woozy and balancing his head on linemen shoulder
If you want to claim there was no head injury is like Hellen Keller claiming sky isnt blue because she can't see it and prove it.
Morris Head Inury Deniers on this post.... Smh... Defending Hoke despite the obvius.
September 29th, 2014 at 8:33 AM ^
I'm not claiming there wasn't a head injury.
I'm claiming that I don't know. I'm also claiming that you don't know, either.
September 29th, 2014 at 8:36 AM ^
If you can't see with your eyes Morris' limp body that he didn't sustain damage after being hit then I can't engage in a discussion with you or the others who will claim "You can't prove it, I can't prove it"
All the Morris Head Injury Truthers LOVE Bart Simpson.... "you didn't see me do anything you can't prove anything.... nah nah nah".
September 29th, 2014 at 9:06 AM ^
Interesting. So you can "prove" he had a head injury by watching him on the field?
And we're the idiots?
September 29th, 2014 at 11:33 AM ^
it's obvious that he is showing symptoms of a possible concussion, whether or not he had one. it's for that reason you take him out for evaluation. hell, anytime you see a player fall into another players arms, you get him out of there and check him out, whether it ankle, head or toenail.
September 29th, 2014 at 8:40 AM ^
#therealissue
September 29th, 2014 at 9:18 AM ^
Yes. This is what really bothers me. A lot of people on here are being intentionally oblique or they really are just morons that don't understand what the problem is.
September 29th, 2014 at 8:53 AM ^
September 29th, 2014 at 9:28 AM ^
Magnus is right. None of are certain there was a concussion.
This is woefully beside the point. (And let's not credit Magnus unnecessarily.) The point is that Morris took a vicious look to the head, got up looking wobbly, and the coaching staff didn't immediately think to check if there was a problem. That was totally irresponsible, and that's the problem.
September 29th, 2014 at 9:28 AM ^
Maybe Csont'e York didn't hit that guy. Maybe he missed and the guy just blacked out at the same time. Maybe what those people heard was really just something falling on the ground making a smacking sound. I don't know. You don't know. Nobody knows. What do you people think? We can evaluate events just by witnessing them? That's crazy talk. Reinstate York!
I don't know if he had a concussion or not either. But I do know he showed symptoms of a head injury after receiving a violent blow to the head. And that's really all that matters in regards to the justified anger directed at Hoke.
September 29th, 2014 at 8:34 AM ^
September 29th, 2014 at 8:39 AM ^
I'm sorry, but did you *read* the OP? It says that the trainer said "Yeah, he can go." If you want to say that the words in the OP are a lie, that's one thing. But you have to at least consider that what's being stated is the truth.
September 29th, 2014 at 8:43 AM ^
Based on Hoke's statement last night and then this second statement it would seem, would it not, that the trainers focus was on his leg - not his head. There is no concussion test I am aware of that can be completed while the player is on the field as Morris was for the play after the hit.
How do you rationalize that?
September 29th, 2014 at 8:47 AM ^
I have already commented on that in this thread.
September 29th, 2014 at 9:07 AM ^
are you really BH? That sounded like a BH answer....
Also, and this is only from what I could see on TV and hear the analysts saying, the trainers were only looking at the leg. Again, they didn't focus soley on what was happeneing with Morris obviously, but all the treatment I saw was focused on his leg. As a Doctor I don't believe they had time to complete an assessment for a concussion in the time prior to him being reinserted.
Again though, from what I saw I don't believe he had a concussion, but after a hit like that he should have been evaluated for one.
September 29th, 2014 at 11:42 AM ^
The entire mob mentaility strikes me as similar to the Duke Lacrosse allegations. There are a ton of people on this site, in the media, and in homes all over the country who are willing to destroy a man's reputation over this situation and are completely unwilling to wait for the facts to come out. Why is it that people don't want to wait? What if you are successful in your efforts to get rid of Hoke for this and it comes out, as there has been some whispers, that Shane was not concussed? Is this "The Michigan Difference"? Is this what "The Leaders and Best" resort to? End justifies the means? Is this how you define a "Michigan Man"?
September 29th, 2014 at 9:07 AM ^
To me, it's very simple - the first question at Brady Hoke's next press conference needs to be "Did Shane Morris suffer a concussion on Saturday? Yes or no." If the answer is "yes," that obviously is very damning, and leads to a ton of follow-up questions, such as "why did he return to the game?" Even if the answer is "no," the question still remains "when was that evaluated to give such a conclusion?"
September 29th, 2014 at 9:13 AM ^
This is a little off base from the Fire Hoke rant, but I am questioning the Referee in this situation. I believe he threw the flag and certainly saw the hit, along with Shane being wobbley afterwards. Besides the fact that I personnely thought that the hit was definately targeting, what is the obligation of the officals in this case.
Couldn't the Referee stopped play to make sure Shane got the correct attention? Safety of the players is also in their hands.