Home
we had subs it was crazy

Primary links

  • About
    • $upport (lol)
    • Ethics
    • FAQ
    • Privacy Policy
  • Contact
  • MGoStore
  • MGoBoard
    • MGoBoard FAQ
    • Ticket spreadsheet
    • Michigan bar locator
    • Moderator Action Sticky
  • Useful Stuff
    • Depth Chart By Class
    • Unofficial Two Deep
    • 2013 Offer Board
    • Crude Bug Tracking System
    • Third Down Stats
    • Diaries, Windows Live Writer, And You
    • Michigan Future Schedules
    • User-Curated HOF
    • 2013 Recruiting Board
    • Where To Eat In Ann Arbor
Home Forums MGoBoard

Navigation

  • Forums
  • Recent posts

User login

  • Create new account
  • Request new password

MGoElsewhere

  • @MGoBlog (Brian)
  • @aceanbender
  • @TomVH (Tom)
  • RSS Feed
  • iPhone App
  • Facebook profile
  • MGoKindle Store
  • mgo.licio.us
  • Brian @ TSB [Archive]
  • Brian @ AOL [Archive]
  • Sour Salty Bitter Sweet

Michigan Blogs

  • Big House Blog
  • Burgeoning Wolverine Star
  • Genuinely Sarcastic
  • Go Blue Michigan Wolverine
  • Holdin' The Rope
  • MGoFootball
  • MVictors
  • Maize 'n' Blue Nation
  • Maize 'n' Brew
  • Maize And Go Blue
  • Michigan Hockey Net
  • The Blog That Yost Built
  • The Hoover Street Rag
  • The M Block
  • The M Zone
  • The Wolverine Blog
  • Touch The Banner
  • UMGoBlog
  • UMHoops
  • UMTailgate
  • Wolverine Liberation Army

M On The Net

  • mgovideo
  • MGoBlue.com
  • Mike DeSimone
  • Recruiting Planet
  • The Wolverine
  • Go Blue Wolverine
  • Winged Helmet
  • UMGoBlue.com
  • MaizeRage.org
  • Puckhead
  • The M Den
  • True Blue Fan Forum

Big Ten Blogs

  • Illinois
    • A Lion Eye
    • Hail To The Orange
    • Illinois Baseball Report
    • Illinois Loyalty
  • Indiana
    • Inside The Hall
    • The Crimson Quarry
  • Iowa
    • Black Heart, Gold Pants
    • Fight For Iowa
  • Michigan State
    • The Only Colors
  • Minnesota
    • GopherHole.com
    • The Daily Gopher
    • I'm In Love With A Fringe Bowl Team
    • TNABACG
  • Nebraska
    • Big Red Network
    • Corn Nation
    • Husker Mike's Blasphemy
    • Husker Gameday
  • Northwestern
    • Sippin' On Purple
    • Lake The Posts
  • Notre Dame
    • The House Rock Built
    • One Foot Down
  • Ohio State
    • Eleven Warriors
    • Buckeye Commentary
    • Men of the Scarlet and Gray
    • Our Honor Defend
    • The Buckeye Nine
  • Penn State
    • Slow States
    • Black Shoe Diaries
    • Happy Valley Hardball
    • Penn State Clips
    • Linebacker U
    • Nittany White Out
  • Purdue
    • Boiled Sports
    • Hammer and Rails
  • Wisconsin
    • Bruce Ciskie

Links of Note

  • Baseball
    • Big Ten Hardball
    • College Baseball Today
    • The Baseball Zealot
    • The College Baseball Blog
  • Basketball
    • Ken Pomeroy
    • Basketball Prospectus
    • Midmajority
  • College Hockey
    • Chris Heisenberg
    • College Hockey Stats
    • Inside College Hockey
    • Michigan College Hockey
    • Hockey's Future
    • Sioux Sports
    • USCHO
    • Western College Hockey
    • CCHA
      • LSSU Hockey
      • Bronco Hockey Blog
  • Football
    • Smart Football
    • Every Day Should Be Saturday
    • Doctor Saturday
    • CFB Stats
    • Harold Stassen
    • NCAA D-I Stats Page
    • The Wizard Of Odds
  • General
    • Sports Central
  • Local Interest
    • The Ann Arbor Chronicle
    • Arborwiki
    • Arbor Update
    • Teeter Talk
    • Vacuum
  • Teams Of The D
    • Lions
      • Pride of Detroit
      • Fire Millen
    • Pistons
      • Detroit Bad Boys
      • Need4Sheed
    • Tigers
      • Roar Of The Tigers
      • The Detroit Tigers Weblog
      • The Daily Fungo
    • Red Wings
      • On The Wings
      • Behind The Jersey
      • Winging It In Motown
    • Michigan Sports Forum

Archive

  • May 2013 (50)
  • April 2013 (94)
  • March 2013 (104)
  • February 2013 (81)
  • January 2013 (93)
  • December 2012 (74)
  • November 2012 (142)
  • October 2012 (143)
  • September 2012 (107)
  • August 2012 (103)
  •  
  • 1 of 11
  • ››

Get Yer Tickets

Football Display Case

NFL Watches

Follow your favorite team with localtv-satellite.com: Click Here.

Site Search

Diaries

  • New
  • Popular
  • Hot
  • More Milford Men Than Michigan Men: Comparing the 11-12 and 12-13 Hockey Teams
    MGoBlueline - 5 days ago
  • Future Non-Conference Opponent Recruiting Watch
    EGD - 1 week ago
  • Way Too Late B1G Men's Basketball Scheduling Idea
    BeileinBuddy - 1 week ago
  • The Blockhams in "HOCKEY HANGOVER"
    Six Zero - 1 week ago
  • MGoAcceptance: Another MGoAnecdote
    LSAClassOf2000 - 1 week ago
  • ‹‹
  • 2 of 4
  • ››
more
  • Using Rivals' Star Ratings To Look At Big Ten Football Recruiting: 2002-2013
    LSAClassOf2000 - 782 views
  • More Milford Men Than Michigan Men: Comparing the 11-12 and 12-13 Hockey Teams
    MGoBlueline - 751 views
  • UMich NFL draft history, Part III
    blueheron - 725 views
  • LIGHT IT UP, AGAIN. WALLPAPER
    jonvalk - 578 views
  • A Cynical Take on Why Expansion May be Dead for the Forseeable Future
    maizeonblueaction - 485 views
  •  
  • 1 of 2
  • ››
more
  • Big Ten Recruiting Rankings 4-30-13
    Ace - 81 comments
  • Using Rivals' Star Ratings To Look At Big Ten Football Recruiting: 2002-2013
    LSAClassOf2000 - 19 comments
  • A Cynical Take on Why Expansion May be Dead for the Forseeable Future
    maizeonblueaction - 17 comments
  • LIGHT IT UP, AGAIN. WALLPAPER
    jonvalk - 16 comments
  • Raiding the B1G-er Big Ten: Recruiting Prospects in Maryland and Rutgers Territory
    The Mathlete - 10 comments
  •  
  • 1 of 2
  • ››
more

MGoBoard

  • New
  • Recent
  • Hot
  • OT: Mott Takeover
    14 replies
  • Jersey Name Patches
    23 replies
  • ESPN's Luginbill Predicts Top 5 Impact Freshmen, includes Derrick Green
    62 replies
  • Initial 2015 Top247 Released
    52 replies
  • Lewan Makes Feldman's "Freak List"
    31 replies
  • NFL: Pro-Bowl Considers A Bounty System
    49 replies
  • Putting out the MGoBatsignal for.......the Michigan Stormtrooper!
    34 replies
  • OT - Brian Urlacher retires
    43 replies
  • OT - Official MGoBaby Thread (you got 'em, we want to see 'em)
    139 replies
  • Plaxico Burress is designing a men’s "luxury hosiery line"
    64 replies
  • BTN Tourney Baseball
    14 replies
  • OT: I love High School football
    39 replies
  • OT? Graduatin' Season. Who had the Worst Commencement Speaker?
    138 replies
  • 2015 QB Josh Rosen offered
    52 replies
  • Charles Woodson signs with Raiders
    48 replies
  •  
  • 1 of 7
  • ››
  • OT: I love High School football
    39 replies
  • BTN Tourney Baseball
    14 replies
  • Complete 2013-14 M Hockey scheduled revealed
    29 replies
  • Gardner updates the recovery of Fitz & Countess
    42 replies
  • Rajin Cajuns Invade AA for some Red Hot Softball (EDIT: Fri 2pm & Sat Noon)
    31 replies
  • OT: NBA Draft Lottery
    78 replies
  • 5 star 2013 DT may not be enrolling at Notre Dame
    83 replies
  • Pizza Pizza Bowl Fires Back!
    29 replies
  • Are TV sets the only reason for RU and MD?
    56 replies
  • Rivals 250 notes
    59 replies
  • OT-Two new Wolverine Fans have joined us (UPDATED WITH PHOTOS FROM TONIGHT)
    67 replies
  • Speight and TomVH on Peppers
    116 replies
  • Our footballs are made in the USA but not in Ohio
    28 replies
  • OT - Kickstarter opportunity to create new college football video game
    46 replies
  • ESPN: Trey Burke Articles/Video/Fluff/Etc.
    13 replies
  • ‹‹
  • 2 of 7
  • ››
  • OT: Red Wings vs Hawks Game 3 Open Thread
    203 replies
  • How much do you really hate ohio?
    145 replies
  • OT - Official MGoBaby Thread (you got 'em, we want to see 'em)
    139 replies
  • OT? Graduatin' Season. Who had the Worst Commencement Speaker?
    138 replies
  • UM 2014 Conf schedule football
    123 replies
  • Brandon on Uniformzzz
    119 replies
  • Speight and TomVH on Peppers
    116 replies
  • OT: Red Wings @ Hawks Game 2 Open Thread
    114 replies
  • Prayers for Moore, Oklahoma
    112 replies
  • Alex Bars to Notre Dame
    96 replies
  • 5 star 2013 DT may not be enrolling at Notre Dame
    83 replies
  • OT: NBA Draft Lottery
    78 replies
  • ESPN 30 for 30 on the Bad Boys
    77 replies
  • Michigan Softball vs. Cal Open Thread
    75 replies
  • Michigan has #1 recruiting class on ESPN now.
    73 replies
  •  
  • 1 of 7
  • ››

mgo.licio.us

  • 2013 NHL Draft Prospect: Andrew Copp

    rundown of Michigan's riser

    0 comments
  • Michigan's key returnee: Glenn Robinson

    needs moar usage

    0 comments
  • Former Arkansas QB Brandon Mitchell transferring to NC State

    so much for that

    0 comments
  • The B1G List: Ranking the State Fossils of the Big Ten

    This list is completely arbitrary and not a genuine analysis of the relative merits of state fossils.

    0 comments
  • Trey Burke turns to inner circle to prepare for NBA draft

    will be michigan's highest pick in a while

    2 comments
  • B1G assistant coach salaries on the rise

    money has to go somewhere

    0 comments
  • Tim Hardaway Jr. is motivated by his critics and doubters, and supremely confident in his ability

    I am only motivated by people who have no opinion about me.

    0 comments
  • Big Ten football procrastinates on parity-based scheduling, and nothing ever changes

    the just released schedules were a flat-out statement that the B10 doesn't believe SOS will matter in playoff selection

    1 comments
  • Michigan's Glenn Robinson III, Mitch McGary ranked inside top 20 on ESPN's 2014 draft board

    but I thought that draft was supposed to be incredibly loaded?

    1 comments
  • Tim Hardaway Jr. turning heads, viewed as a first-rounder by some teams, analyst says

    If you're gonna go please be in the first round.

    0 comments
  • Michigan-Ohio State once, Indiana-Purdue once? The Big Ten has to protect its hoops rivalries

    another delightful side effect of a 14 team conference

    0 comments
  • Beilein on transfers: All should have to sit a year, regardless of situation

    I disagree.

    0 comments
  • Julie Hermann takes over as Rutgers AD, won't try to spend like Michigan

    GOOD PLAN

    2 comments
  • Jay Harris says no to Michigan State, decides to become a rapper

    hahahahaha

    0 comments
  • The Difference Between A Good Fan And A Bad Fan

    thoughtful piece from Jacobi on middle finger lady

    3 comments
  •  
  • 1 of 2
  • ››
more

Is the new 3 point line starting to be detrimental to Beilein's system?

17 posts / 0 new
Login or register to post comments
Last post
January 29th, 2010 at 3:50 PM
#1
M-Wolverine
M-Wolverine's picture
Joined: 10/04/2009
MGoPoints: 38826
Is the new 3 point line starting to be detrimental to Beilein's system?

Not bashing his system, (though the style isn't my favorite, for full disclosure), but legitimately asking the question, to get the opinion of others and see what you think moving the line back has done to his system and our success.

Because even when we won last year, we shot pretty badly from 3 point range. And no, Beilein hasn't had a chance to get all his players in. But I can't help but feel that his system might be working more effectively from closer in, because I'm guessing guys like Stu and Novak, who might be just ok from a little further out, might be lights out from the closer range. And there are probably a lot more guys you can find who have their shooting range, than guys who will be NBA 3 point gunners (thus making the college line pretty easy).

There are other factors, like not having a Big Man to set up the passing, and draw attention away, and I know the idea was that the line moved back would make guys who can really shoot threes (who may not be on campus yet) still able to shoot threes, and guys who can't but did anyway from the closer line not be able to benefit from it.

So, do you think the rules changed at a bad time, just as we implemented this system, or are we going to find enough dead eye gunners that we'll be one of the only ones who can utilize the line as a specific weapon?

"I love him, he's a great coach, he's a great mentor, he's a great friend. He's every single thing you want a college coach to be, and he does it flawlessly." -David Molk

Top
  • Login or register to post comments
Tags:
  • MGoBoard

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
January 29th, 2010 at 4:05 PM | I won't be definitive in my opinion, (Score:1)
wolverine1987
wolverine1987's picture
Joined: 07/07/2008
MGoPoints: 2928

because I don't research and follow it closely enough in b-ball. But IMO yes, moving the line back a foot was bad for his system. A foot doesn't sound like a lot but IMO it is at that range. I'd love someone who knows more to correct me.

"Everyone gets dumped Gabe. Let me give you some advice: a little coverup on your Adams Apple will make it appear smaller. Which will make you appear less like a transvestite." 

  • Login or register to post comments
January 29th, 2010 at 4:05 PM | A foot doesn't make a difference (Score:1)
el segundo
Joined: 04/17/2009
MGoPoints: 503

A shooter who has range to 19' 9" has range to 20' 9". Everyone who takes 3s for Michigan on a regular basis has demonstrated range beyond 21 feet (I'm not including Anthony Wright in this. I'm not sure what his range is. Or if he has one. Sorry, but I think that's true). They're just not consistent. I think that's because most of them are underclassment, who tend to be inconsistent. And I wonder whether the shooting inconsistency for Douglass and Novak might have something to do with playing out of position defensively. They are both being asked to guard people who have significant physical advantages over them -- in Douglass' case, quickness and in Novak's case, strength and size. That's got to take a physical toll, and it might be enough to take a little away from their shots. I don't think this is a matter of fitness as much as it is a matter of learning how to use different physical tools than they're used to.

I don't have an explanation for Lucas-Perry's inconsistency. I'm starting to think he's just not a good shooter, among other things.

  • Login or register to post comments
January 29th, 2010 at 4:17 PM | Agree (Score:1)
Kilgore Trout
Kilgore Trout's picture
Joined: 02/20/2009
MGoPoints: 1863

I think Douglass is just being asked to do a ton and it's hurting his touch. He's a personal favorite of mine, so I probably cut him more slack than I should, but hey. His form looks perfect to me and his release looks fine, they just don't seem to go in this season.

Novak's form seems to be all over the place this year. He's obviously strong enough to get it there, so I don't think the distance is an issue. I noticed during the halftime shoot around at the MSU game that he is putting way too much mustard on his shot in my opinion. A shot should land softly and have a nice arc. He just seems to be whizzing the ball at the hoop for lack of a better term.

  • Login or register to post comments
January 29th, 2010 at 4:20 PM | Novak too strong? (Score:1)
el segundo
Joined: 04/17/2009
MGoPoints: 503

That's an interesting observation about Novak. Maybe he's still adjusting to his more muscular upper body.

  • Login or register to post comments
January 29th, 2010 at 4:26 PM | Good point (Score:1)
Kilgore Trout
Kilgore Trout's picture
Joined: 02/20/2009
MGoPoints: 1863

I hadn't really made that connection to his supposedly more muscluar build, but that makes sense. I know in the past when I've lifted for a while and not played, it takes a bit to get the feel for your shot back.

I don't know if I'm getting into words exactly what I mean about his shot, but if you think about shooting a basketball, you kind of have to think "soft" with it. Lasers to the hoop rarely go in and you never get the roll.

  • Login or register to post comments
January 29th, 2010 at 4:26 PM | I've thought the same. Also, (Score:1)
jmblue
Joined: 11/07/2008
MGoPoints: 28969

I've thought the same. Also, both he and Douglass are taking a lot of shots without getting their feet set/shoulders squared up first.

  • Login or register to post comments
January 29th, 2010 at 4:07 PM | No (Score:1)
Kilgore Trout
Kilgore Trout's picture
Joined: 02/20/2009
MGoPoints: 1863

In my opinion, I don't think it makes a huge difference. I haven't looked up the numbers, but I haven't heard a clammering nationwide about drops in three point shooting percentage. These guys are D1 athletes. The difference is minimal (basically half a step back). I think with practice they should be able to make the adjustment pretty easily. It's not like they aren't strong enough to shoot that far without breaking down their form.

  • Login or register to post comments
January 29th, 2010 at 4:10 PM | The line was moved back a (Score:1)
jmblue
Joined: 11/07/2008
MGoPoints: 28969

The line was moved back a year ago. A study on this found that the national 3-point shooting average dropped by a statistically insignificant amount (in the neighborhood of 1%) last year. It's most likely not a factor. I think a bigger issue is that a lot of guys on the team are just not patient enough within the offense and are rushing up attempts instead of letting the ball move around and getting better looks.

  • Login or register to post comments
January 29th, 2010 at 4:12 PM | What if that national 3-point (Score:1)
jtmc33
Joined: 04/15/2009
MGoPoints: 4915

What if that national 3-point drop of 1% is based on Douglass's stats alone?

I kid, but seriously, his system depends on sharpshooting SGs making their threes. It's not the system... it's the lack of execution.

Class of '97: 4 Years -- 4 Four-loss seasons

  • Login or register to post comments
January 29th, 2010 at 4:16 PM | Pure shooters are not really (Score:1)
MC Hammer
Joined: 07/10/2008
MGoPoints: 6

Pure shooters are not really affected by moving the line back a foot.

Scorers (Sims, Harris) who shoot 3s are affected more.

As for the people we thought were shooters, like Douglass and LLP, well I don't know to be honest.

  • Login or register to post comments
January 29th, 2010 at 4:59 PM | My viewpoint (Score:1)
FGB
FGB's picture
Joined: 09/24/2009
MGoPoints: 1732

is that Stu and Zack just aren't that great shooters, but are being made worse because of the green light on 3s in this offense.

Whether there actually is a full green light, or whether the players psychologically think "I'm on a Beilein team, this team loves shooting 3s, so I'll go ahead and shoot some more", I don't know but I just feel like a lot of times they're shooting 3s for the sake of shooting 3s, and they don't get set, they don't have an open look, or they're standing 5 feet behind the 3 point line.

  • Login or register to post comments
January 29th, 2010 at 5:14 PM | The line move probably (Score:1)
bronxblue
Joined: 11/22/2008
MGoPoints: 12590

The line move probably affected players early on, but they had numerous practices and scrimmages to get used to it. I think the bigger issue is that the players are taking bad shots outside of the offensive flow. When they can spot up and get their feet under them, the shots seems like they are falling at a reasonable rate. But when Manny launches at 30-footer with a guy in his face and 20 seconds left on the shot clock, you are going to see some low percentages.

  • Login or register to post comments
January 29th, 2010 at 5:22 PM | funny thing... (Score:1)
Tater
Tater's picture
Joined: 08/13/2008
MGoPoints: 10377

We hear a lot about how a shooter "doesn't miss in practice," but then throws up bricks in games. I think the system works fine; it's simply a matter of patience and execution. Also, this team is too short to contend for a Big Ten Championship. They just get overpowered by bigger teams.

When the taller recruits grow into players, and maybe one bona fide elite center signs with the maize and blue, I think most UM fans will be very happy with JB's system.

 

 

 

  • Login or register to post comments
January 29th, 2010 at 6:12 PM | Distance (Score:1)
timhoops
timhoops's picture
Joined: 12/06/2009
MGoPoints: 240

change shouldn't matter. The team just needs to take better attempts that are in the flow of the offense. One problem is that outside of Harris no one on the roster has the ability to penetrate and create kick-out opportunity for the many spot up shooters on the roster. Players like Morris and LLP need to be able to create off the dribble to set up players like Novak and Douglas on the perimeter.

  • Login or register to post comments
January 29th, 2010 at 7:14 PM | players... (Score:1)
AC1997
AC1997's picture
Joined: 09/19/2008
MGoPoints: 878

I think the system can work just fine as you saw against a good MSU team. The new line probably hurts a little, but not a lot. Here are my theories:

-- These guys are olaying too many minutes. The lack of a bench means that there is no lineup flexibility and they are out there too much.
-- They still take too many BAD threes and don't seem to think that a 18 footer is acceptable. The Kalin Lucas shot would have been a 3 if he were a michigan guard.
-- I'm starting to wonder if this is the ceiling for Novak and Douglas. Maybe their low rankings from high school are more accurate than we thought and they just are marginal div-1 players. I hope not....

AC-1997

  • Login or register to post comments
January 29th, 2010 at 8:06 PM | Hopefully Stu and Zack don't (Score:1)
The Barwis Effect
The Barwis Effect's picture
Joined: 06/30/2008
MGoPoints: 2244

Hopefully Stu and Zack don't follow the career path of Gavin Groninger, whose stats got progressively worse with each passing season.

BTW, if you do a Google search on "gavin groninger" AND "great shooter" it only brings up nine results. :(

"[T]here were a lot of people predicting glorious heights for Rich; mostly the same people who are predicting doom and gloom [for Hoke]. Excuse me if I doubt their prognostication skills." -- M-Wolverine

  • Login or register to post comments
Powered by Pressflow, an open source content management system
Theme provided by Roopletheme; sidebars adapted from Chris Murphy.