Never heard so much BS about a team that closed 8-7
This is truly extraordinary.
That is Sparty's record over their last 15 games. 8-7.
This just shows you how much group think and communal stupidity there is the world of college basketball "analysis."
Unless Keith Appling miraculously regains his shot in the next four days, this is a team that remains exactly as vulnerable as they were one week ago.
I used to trade for a living, and my go to move was to trade overreactions. I made a killing. This is a classic overreaction.
I mean no disrespect to our team, and I think we are also vulnerable, as Thursday night will be our 4th game in 8 days, but seriously, they just beat a jump shooting team playing its third game in three days. Just think on that.
If gambling were legal, I would drop multiple g's betting the field against Sparty because this is a gambling/trading opportunity. It's an overreaction.
Everyone is buying what Izzo's been selling, but I'm not. Let's watch Payne huff and puff in the first five minutes of a tournament game and see if that team doesn't get bounced. Let's watch a team sag off of Appling because he still can't shoot, and see if that doesn't cause a major problem for MSU - and Izzo is going to ride Appling because he's stubborn.
If a team can push Payne at all, he's going to break down.
This "analyst" nonsense should and will piss our team off. We won the conference. They won a four day carnival. And no, to answer some idiot in another thread, a 68 team tournament played out over multiple weeks is not the same as a four day game show.
Sparty is able - I don't deny that they have talent - but they are very vulnerable.
March 16th, 2014 at 10:45 PM ^
March 16th, 2014 at 11:16 PM ^
If MSU wins the BTT, then they will win the NCAA tournament
MSU won the BTT
Therefore, MSU will win the NCAA tournament
March 16th, 2014 at 11:33 PM ^
a syllogism?
March 17th, 2014 at 12:10 AM ^
It's more of a material conditional whereas a syllogism would be:
MSU is good and,
MSU won the BTT therefore,
MSU will win the NCAA tourney.
Syllogisms often require a tenuous jump to a conclusion.
March 17th, 2014 at 12:41 AM ^
From Merriam-Webster on-line:
"a deductive scheme of a formal argument consisting of a major and a minor premise and a conclusion (as in “every virtue is laudable; kindness is a virtue; therefore kindness is laudable”)."
There's no tenuous jump to a conclusion. If A and B are true then C is true.
Here's another example they offer:
"An example of a syllogism is: “All men are human; all humans are mortal; therefore all men are mortal.”"
March 17th, 2014 at 10:11 AM ^
only on this site can you learn so much about life in general
March 17th, 2014 at 11:48 AM ^
Agreed. Syllogisms absolutely do not need to make a tenuous jump from premise to conclusion. Another common syllogism example is:
All men are human.
Dave is a man.
Therefore, Dave is a human.
Textbook syllogism; no tenuous jump.
Intro to Logic was both VERY EASY and VERY USEFUL.
This is a bit dated (I took the course in '03), but the intro to logic course should really get more attention from undergrads than it does. It probably had the highest ratio of stuff learned that I still use today / effort expended of any course I took at UM. The stuff isn't very hard once you are taught it, but it isn't obvious to people unless you have someone teach it to you (NB: some time on Wikipedia may be an acceptable substitute nowadays).
Good logic makes one's writing much better and helps you quickly decipher the myriad poor arguments made everyday in commerce, law, government, etc. I was a business major, and still loved the course. If you want to be a lawyer, you should absolutely take it.
Not sure which of these corresponds, but check it out:
http://www.lsa.umich.edu/philosophy/undergraduate/studyingphilosophy/lo…
March 17th, 2014 at 11:55 AM ^
If A... Then B..... A... Therefore B.
Seems to more likely be a syllogasm..
March 17th, 2014 at 11:43 AM ^
Agree.
I really don't see MSU making a Final Four run unless they get to the Final Four.
March 16th, 2014 at 10:46 PM ^
Sports is all about hype. Who cares? Michigan won the conference and they're in good shape for a nice tourney run. That's all that matters.
March 16th, 2014 at 10:48 PM ^
We didn't really lose. We were injured. It would have been a much different game if they played us with Mitch McGary. /s
March 16th, 2014 at 10:49 PM ^
March 16th, 2014 at 10:51 PM ^
March 16th, 2014 at 10:53 PM ^
That's all well and good, and it sucks that we lost and it sucks that they won.
But if you don't know enough about basketball to know that when a jump shooting team clangs front rim on shot after shot after shot it means they don't have their legs, you simply do not understand the game.
If you can honestly tell me that the game today looks the same if both teams are coming in on normal or even tournament rest, fine, but then I also think you don't know what you're talking about.
uhm...you do realize that this MSU team shoots more threes than any Izzo has ever had and went 2 for 17 from 3 yesterday, right? tired legs is hardly an excuse when it fits them better than us. And it's pretty obvious that the only reason they finished 8-7 was that they didn't have their normal rotation of players for the entire conference slate.
Do you really think we win both those games if Dawson was playing and Appling was healthy? This whining is pretty pathetic. MSU is damned good and hitting their stride at just the right time - a lot like Louisville last year, another team that EVERYONE picked to win it all, and guess what? they did! It wasn't surprising to see a lot of MSU/L'ville finals picked. We will struggle with any team that has a decent big. But we can also go far if Nik is on. But that's a lot to ask one guy, while MSU has shown they have multiple players that can take over a game.
I just don't see the point of all the whining other than simple jealousy and immature little brother nonsense. It's like i'm reading tRCMB during FB season!
March 16th, 2014 at 10:47 PM ^
March 16th, 2014 at 10:50 PM ^
They beat a jump shooting team playing its third game in three days.
Like I said, they have ability, but there are way more impressive teams out there than a team with a star who gets winded in two trips up and down the court and a PG who still can't shoot.
Arizona, for example, would stomp a mudhole in that team. Just batter them.
March 16th, 2014 at 11:25 PM ^
March 16th, 2014 at 11:32 PM ^
I won't deal with bookies. I was an active (and successful) internet sports gambler back when it was legal. If it were still legal, I would be putting money down.
March 16th, 2014 at 11:34 PM ^
But if you want to post your email address, I would be delighted to put some money behind this opinion.
March 16th, 2014 at 11:57 PM ^
March 17th, 2014 at 12:04 AM ^
Thanks, spectacular!
I'm really not sure how else you would have preferred me to respond.
March 16th, 2014 at 11:31 PM ^
was taken out of that game in the first few minutes when Morgan and Horford were called for 3 ticky tack fouls and Beilein had to insert Max for major minutes. This hype and overreation is unlike anything I have personally ever witnessed as literally every one of the ESPN guys picked MSU to win it all.
March 16th, 2014 at 10:48 PM ^
March 16th, 2014 at 11:00 PM ^
I really disagree with your assessment that they are as good a bet as anyone. I mean the only reason I could even begin to think that is that their draw is somewhat favorable.
But Arizona, Kansas, and Louisville, just off the top of my head are all way better bets than Sparty.
If Embiid plays and those two teams meet, are you seriously taking Sparty against them? I think that's crazy.
This team was ranked #22 in the country at the start of today, for goodness sake.
but I respectfully disagree. So much of March Madness is about who is hot at the right time. From their three BTT games it looks to me like they are hitting a rythmn. Don't forget they dominated Wiscy, too.
I mean, I think yes and no. The result over Wisky was impressive, and I said it was sobering on this board. With that said, Wisky seemed unusually off - their guards are excellent three point shooters and they couldn't have hit the side of the barn in that game - and a number of the looks were good looks that they just couldn't knock down.
As for us, I'm at the point where if people don't understand why their team is better constituted for three games in three days than our team is, or why drawing NW in the opening round wasn't a solid advantage, I just see things differently than they do.
Like I've said, I think they are a very able team with some glaring problems that seem hard to resolve in the time they have available. Payne still looked like he would have been gassed if we had been able to put any stressful minutes on him (we couldn't) and Appling still couldn't shoot.
Sounds like you just like making excuses for Wisconsin and Michigan. Is State the best team in the country? I don't think so, but they sure aren't bad at this point either. I certainly wouldn't want to play them in the tourney right now. Saying they'd be crushed by any number of good teams is ludicrous. They just easily handled the 2 best teams in the B1G.
"Payne still looked like he would have been gassed if we had been able to put any stressful minutes on him" He wasn't gassed, but looked like he would have been? What is that look? lol
March 16th, 2014 at 10:48 PM ^
Didn't we go something like 6-6 last year before the tournament?
March 16th, 2014 at 10:52 PM ^
March 16th, 2014 at 11:06 PM ^
Exactly. We didn't have every talking head proclaiming our fucking imminent coronation when the brackets were released.
It would be hilarious if it weren't so maddening. But it's beyond obvious what has happened here - every talking head was dead set on this storyline and it's been burning a hole in their itchy pockets during all these Sparty losses. All they needed was the slightest bit of momentum and the collective insanity has burst the dam.
Actually, if memory serves, the talking heads all had us going down to VCU in the 2nd round...
That is correct. It was as trendy a pick as there was in last year's tournament.
No, the trendy pick in last year's tournament was that we would go down in the first game.
March 17th, 2014 at 11:37 AM ^
The B1G was MUCH stronger last year. Besides losing to Penn State, our losses came against MSU (a 1-seed), Wisconsin twice (a 4-seed), IU (a 1-seed), and OSU (a 2-seed). That was mixed in with wins over OSU, MSU, and a few other solid Big Ten teams. Moreover, the OSU, Wisconsin, and IU games all came down to one shot/bounce of the ball. One required a half-court shot, the other had a Trey Burke three rim out, and the other had a Jordan Morgan buzzer-beater layup roll out.
MSU has had some ugly losses. We only had one and a bunch of really tough losses.
March 16th, 2014 at 10:49 PM ^
Joker'd
March 16th, 2014 at 10:56 PM ^
That's exactly what I'm saying.
People around here may want to do the whole sackcloth and ashes routine, but I really wasn't that upset watching the game today. It was a perfect storm, and not a good one for us. But the BS after the game, it's just not a rational assessment.
March 16th, 2014 at 11:41 PM ^
Has the best defense in the league and it's a rivalry game, that win depleted Michigan physically and mentally.
"I really wasn't that upset watching the game today." lol sure you weren't.
March 16th, 2014 at 10:52 PM ^
I'm still not betting on them making it to arlington. I haven't the past three years. One game against Wisconsin and us doesn't change that.
March 16th, 2014 at 10:56 PM ^
but point taken.
March 16th, 2014 at 10:55 PM ^
It's tough to beat any team three times in a year. Sparty won today.
2-1 on the year for the good guys, B1G title, a few days of rest and some perspective following the loss today.
FWIW, I don't get this "daily Sparty" in media thread. They are the "little brother" and this is the sort of obsessing they historically run on RCMB except using terms like scUM and Walverine. Is it enough to just take the loss today and move on with your Championship Banner into the tourney?
Hey, relax guy.
March 16th, 2014 at 11:15 PM ^
I'm pretty ticked off that I can't enjoy five minutes of bracketology without having to hear this ridiculousness parroted. It's interfering with my GD viewing enjoyment.
I mean, really, people don't think Payne's lack of a gas tank or Appling's inability to shoot anything but a layup are real problems?
And I truly, sincerely, eagerly hope that Sparty tries to run the BS they got away with today in a tournament game. They'll have 50 fouls by halftime.
I asked Beilein at an event about the difference between playing a game reffed Big Ten style and playing a game reffed the way the NCAAs are called. Let's just say he warmed to the question. Today was a very strange reversion. That's not how the game has been called all season. And the emphasis on calling a game that more closely matched the whistle you're going to get in a national game is good for the tournament teams in the conference. You know, so you're not suprised when your entire team is in foul trouble 15 minutes into your opening round game.
March 16th, 2014 at 10:55 PM ^
They just beat our weird guys.
March 16th, 2014 at 10:56 PM ^
Personally, I don't give two shits and a holler about the B1G Tournament title. Would've been neat to win it, but the B1G Championship is the important thing.
That's why it took the B1G 50+ years to adopt a worthless conference tourney. Because they believe that championships aren't won in three days, it's over a period of time. The NCAA Championship isn't won in 3-4 days.
Would love to see Delaware shock them and send the izzo jock-sweat drinkers in the media into a tizzy.
March 16th, 2014 at 10:56 PM ^
March 16th, 2014 at 11:01 PM ^
Oh man, that's just what I was getting at.
I am not making this up - if I could gamble legally, I would put down multiple G's against them. Not joking.