Nevada's Offense a Good Idea ?

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January 19th, 2011 at 12:09 PM
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rpel84
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Nevada's Offense a Good Idea ?

I wanted to see if anybody had some of the same idea that I did or what you thought about my idea. 

I think running that version of the "Pistol" that Nevada runs would be a good idea for us with Denard and later Gardner.  It gives you many options, and a QB like Denard would really do well I believe.  It would satisfy Hokes want for a power run game, let denard read pull the ball and run and it creates a lot of passing opportunities.  I think we have better QBs than Nevada, and would be a good fit right now.

Later Edit:  Sorry I offended the powers that be by accidentally voting my own post.  I didnt know what the arrows did and now I do and wont make that same mistake again.  Please dont strike me with lightning...

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January 19th, 2011 at 12:13 PM | It is worth a thought. (Score:1)
HttV Wolverine
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It is worth a thought. Whatever offense they decide to run, they need to be able to use Denard's passing ability while still having his running ability being a threat. Denard will do well but our offense will be great if we can still utilize both of his strengths. Also, we need an offense that allows the RBs to be more involved, that way Denard doesn't get exposed to possibly getting hurt all the time.

“What the mind can conceive, the mind can achieve and those who stay will be champions.” - Bo 

][V][

January 19th, 2011 at 12:17 PM | agree (Score:1)
michgoblue
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Denard cannot run the ball 20+ times in a game.  Not only do teams eventually make adjustments (as we saw in B10 play), but he is at risk for getting killed.  The ideal offense would have Denard as a passing QB, but one who can take off when the play breaks.  I am thinking more along the lines of Vince Young than the college edition of Michael Vick.  Of course we would mix in a fair share of designed QB runs, but less so than this year.

Looking at Denard over the course of the past two seasons, going back to his first TD, he is most effective in the run game not on designed QB runs, but when he is taking off because the play breaks down or because the O-Line couldn't contain a blitz.

January 19th, 2011 at 12:56 PM | The whole 'running qb get (Score:1)
david from wyoming
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The whole 'running qb get hurt' meme is overplayed and wrong. How a running qb runs factors a lot into it. Pryor could run 40 times a game in Ohio State's system since he runs to the sideline and doesn't get hit. Last year, Rich Rod had Denard running up the middle a lot and Denard was getting hit hard because of it. If you design roll out plays for Denard so he can run and not get hit...run him 20+ times a game please.

Are you a park ranger at Yellowstone? Say hi to Yogi Bear for me. - the_big_house 500th

I may not be a 70 year old man. - Herm

January 19th, 2011 at 1:08 PM | Seeing that we could talk (Score:1)
david from wyoming
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Seeing that we could talk about anecdotes all day, here are some wonderful diaries to read.

http://mgoblog.com/diaries/busting-myth-option-qb-fragility

http://mgoblog.com/diaries/mobile-qb-injury-study

But believe what you want. I'll go with the stats.

Are you a park ranger at Yellowstone? Say hi to Yogi Bear for me. - the_big_house 500th

I may not be a 70 year old man. - Herm

January 19th, 2011 at 10:24 PM | The only injury rate that (Score:1)
jmblue
Joined: 11/07/2008
MGoPoints: 28972

The only injury rate that really matters is Denard Robinson's.  Whether some other QB could stay healthy in this offense is irrelevant.  Denard was knocked out, at least temporarily, of eight games last year.  That is unheard-of.  Four times, he was unable to return.  That's a lot.  The evidence suggests that too much of a physical burden was placed on him.  This is further supported by the fact that in seven of the eight games, the injury occurred in the second half (frequently right around the 20th carry of the game), suggesting that the hits may have been taking their toll. 

January 19th, 2011 at 10:19 PM | A big reason why Denard ran (Score:1)
jmblue
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A big reason why Denard ran it so much was the lack of a good RB

I don't think so.  RR's offense normally features a QB who carries the ball a ton.  In 2007, he had two outstanding backs in Slaton and Devine, and White still averaged around 20 carries a game.  It was the pass attempts that were sacrificed.

January 19th, 2011 at 2:41 PM | On a few effective runs in the Miss St game... (Score:1)
MDave
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Denard ran to the sidelines and had 20+ yard runs.  He needs to get the sideline and not take the pounding, there is no doubt about it. 

"It's what you learn after you know it all that counts." - John Wooden

January 19th, 2011 at 12:23 PM |  Except that almost all his (Score:1)
Son of Tacopants
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 Except that almost all his touchdown runs were designed QB runs including the one against western in 09.   That only looked like a broken play because he fumbled the snap.   One of the most frustrating aspects of the O and Denard's game this past year was his hesitancy to scramble on called pass plays even when there were acres of space in front of him.  To be successful in the new offense he has to learn when to be patient with the routes and when to bail and take off.

January 19th, 2011 at 12:26 PM | I'd almost like it to be part (Score:1)
LandonC
Joined: 07/24/2008
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I'd almost like it to be part of his progression, for each play, read one, read two and take off, or reads 1-3 and take off.  Make it a decision he is supposed to make, rather than just something to fall back on when he can't find someone open.

January 19th, 2011 at 12:28 PM | That and also to read his (Score:1)
HttV Wolverine
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That and also to read his keys a little better, which will come with experience. Once Denard is able to read his keys and know who to throw to, he will be literally unstoppable. He can make the throws, as seen by his long touch passes and bullets to Roundtree, but he needs to be able to see the open TE or RB in the flats. Again that comes with practice and experience and I know he is on the right track.

“What the mind can conceive, the mind can achieve and those who stay will be champions.” - Bo 

][V][

January 19th, 2011 at 2:30 PM | Denard's "hesitancy?" (Score:1)
Tater
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While I agree with the main part of your point, I think an underlying reason for Denard's tendency to stay with pass plays "too long" was that he was criticized for pullling it down and running too early as a freshman.  Thus, he overadjusted, which really goes back to the classic reason for the use of the term "sophomore," or "wise fool."  In other words, you expect sophomores to do things like that as part of their growing process.

Denard made so much progress between his freshman and sophomore years that I am more than willing to overlook an overadjustment and have faith that he will continue to grow as a QB, even if he has to learn an entirely new scheme this year.  If there is one thing last year taught me, it's this:

Never underestimate Denard Robinson's ability to learn and improve.

 

 

 

January 19th, 2011 at 12:30 PM | Absolutley right. (Score:1)
Newbie
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Denard will be most effective when the D can't scheme around stopping his running ability. That first TD against Western is a great example. He dropped the ball and made something happen because they had no idea who he was. Obviously teams know he's a gamebreaker now, but if teams first respect his ability to throw the ball, and scheme around that, he'll be able to find openings when receivers aren't open to take off. He should still be able to run the ball 10-12 times a game, and be effective if team's don't know when, or how, it's coming.

January 19th, 2011 at 12:54 PM | JMHO, Denard's passing (Score:1)
Not a Blue Fan
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JMHO, Denard's passing ability is entirely predicated on the run (right now). After watching him play this season, it became pretty obvious that having him drop back and try to read coverages was (more often than not) unsuccessful. He was most  successful off the PA - in particular, off of the PA QB Sweep (when the safety came down into the box, the slot ran a  post behind him for an easy TD - see the ND game).

Whatever offense  you run needs to have an element of the QB PA. Until  Denard shows the ability read and beat coverages, this is strictly necessary for  success.

January 19th, 2011 at 1:03 PM | Denard's passing ability (Score:1)
Maize and Blue ...
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without the threat of the run leaves much to be desired. Its not like he is the most accurate QB in the land and if you put the reigns on him running it will in all likelyhood hurt his passing game.  The one thing that still surprises me about him is that he isn't a good scrambler or just doesn't like to do it.

January 19th, 2011 at 1:29 PM | The Pistol is a very (Score:1)
MAIZEandBLUE2002
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The Pistol is a very effective offense and presents many problems to opposing defenses. But, with that being said, you cant install it over night. If Borges doesnt have any experience with the Pistol, then I would say scrap it. But if he does have experience running it, Id be all for it. I know Borges has been around for a long time and has run different offenses in the past, but havent read anywhere that said he ran the pistol in the past.

THOSE WHO STAY WILL BE CHAMPIONS

January 19th, 2011 at 12:14 PM | I'd rather have the coordinators run (Score:1)
JeepinBen
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Stuff they know how to run. I'm a big beliver that we need multiple offensive sets - combining some spread, some power I, some everything. But if our coaches aren't familiar AT ALL with something (and the pistol is a relatively new formation) I'd rather not have them try to teach it (see GERG and 3-3-5).

If they like the idea, I'm sure they'd set up a meeting with Nevada's coaches and learn it. UCLA used it to destroy Texas this year, it'd be an interesting fit for sure... we'll see if Hoke sets up a visit to Nevada after signing day

"Over? Did you say, over? Nothing is over until we decide it is!"

January 19th, 2011 at 12:16 PM | It's intriguing, but UCLA (Score:1)
Rabbit21
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It's intriguing, but UCLA tried to implement it last year with a coaching group who were all Pro-style guys and the results were................underwhelming to say the least. 

It's a pretty big risk if they try it and after last year I'm not a fan of implementing schemes that take coaches out of their comfort zone.

Borges had success with Cade McNown, a mobile quarterback not exactly know for his accuracy(sound familiar), so I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

By the way Colin Kaepernick is a hell of an athlete who spent four years running the pistol, I doubt we'd emulate that success.

Chaos is found in greatest abundance wherever order is being sought.  It always defeats order because it is better organized. 

January 19th, 2011 at 12:29 PM | agreed (Score:1)
rpel84
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I was trying to find a way to keep the power run and still keep denard in the shotgun where he is obviously more comfortable.

January 19th, 2011 at 12:15 PM | When I play football video (Score:1)
david from wyoming
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When I play football video games, I change my offensive and defensive playbooks for each game and somethings during the game. This does not just happen that easy in real life. Yes, the players could learn the pistol, but can Hoke and company teach it effectively? I think a large part of GERG's coaching issues was that he never knew the 3-3-5 and was being asked or forced to run that. If Hoke doesn't know the pistol, DO NOT RUN THE PISTOL.

Are you a park ranger at Yellowstone? Say hi to Yogi Bear for me. - the_big_house 500th

I may not be a 70 year old man. - Herm

January 19th, 2011 at 12:20 PM | I'd prefer we run the (Score:1)
._.
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I'd prefer we run the shuriken anyways due to our great supply of slot ninjas

January 19th, 2011 at 12:32 PM | good point (Score:1)
rpel84
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It might be easy for him because the blocking schemes are very very similar to a pro scheme

January 19th, 2011 at 12:34 PM | And it might be easy because (Score:1)
david from wyoming
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And it might be easy because both schemes feature a center snapping a ball... wait a second...

Are you a park ranger at Yellowstone? Say hi to Yogi Bear for me. - the_big_house 500th

I may not be a 70 year old man. - Herm

January 19th, 2011 at 1:20 PM | I think you missed it (Score:1)
Big Boutros
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I think you missed it

January 19th, 2011 at 12:23 PM | Interesting. "Borrow" my (Score:1)
dakotapalm
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Interesting. "Borrow" my avatar, and upvote your own post? That's not how most of us here roll.

January 19th, 2011 at 12:29 PM | However . . . (Score:1)
profitgoblue
Joined: 09/01/2009
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If he's not going to upvote it, who is?  Also, stealing is the most sincere form of flattery, right?  Wait, that doesn't sound right . . .

Disgruntled former moderator.  I got a lot of problems with you people!

January 19th, 2011 at 12:47 PM | Wait, what? (Score:1)
ND Sux
Joined: 10/01/2009
MGoPoints: 3131
  1. How can someone upvote their own post?  Does the system even allow that?
  2. How are you able to see that's what he did? 

Thx.

"I promise you we would have walked to the University of Michigan."  - Brady Hoke

January 19th, 2011 at 12:49 PM | Click the 'voting details' (Score:1)
david from wyoming
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Click the 'voting details' tab on the top of the OP.

Are you a park ranger at Yellowstone? Say hi to Yogi Bear for me. - the_big_house 500th

I may not be a 70 year old man. - Herm

January 19th, 2011 at 12:52 PM | Not sure what the points req'd is (Score:1)
JeepinBen
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But above the OP there are tabs, one of which is "Voting Details" and you can see who upvoted or down-voted the OP. So if you have enough points and you can see those tabs, you can see who voted what on the OP

"Over? Did you say, over? Nothing is over until we decide it is!"

January 19th, 2011 at 1:34 PM | Did I offend the "Avatar Police" (Score:1)
rpel84
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I didnt know that we werent allowed to use the same Avatar as somebody else...I feel bad for you that you have nothing better to do than patrol who uses what Avatar.  I liked it and wanted to use it so I did.  Get over it dude. 

As for the voting I am sooo sorry that I have offended the all mighty.  And didnt know "how you roll."  I didnt know what the arrows did because I am obviously new, and figured it out when I clicked the arrow.  Again so sorry that I offended you. 

I feel for you man, I hope you can someday get over yourself and your "superior" 3286 points.  Get a life.

January 19th, 2011 at 1:37 PM | Why so defensive? (Score:1)
david from wyoming
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Why so defensive?

Are you a park ranger at Yellowstone? Say hi to Yogi Bear for me. - the_big_house 500th

I may not be a 70 year old man. - Herm

January 19th, 2011 at 3:08 PM | Whoa . . . (Score:1)
profitgoblue
Joined: 09/01/2009
MGoPoints: 19415

Whoa there, killer.  Its trial by fire here and you just felt the heat.  Getting defensive will do you further harm - everyone knows this, from experience.  Simply say "thanks for informing me" and change your avatar.  And you now know not to upvote your own threads, so you've got that going for you (which is nice).

Disgruntled former moderator.  I got a lot of problems with you people!

January 19th, 2011 at 12:25 PM | Hmm... (Score:1)
Dilla Dude
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I say we give it some thought

 

"Some people think that football is a matter of life and death. I assure you, it's much more than that."

January 19th, 2011 at 12:25 PM | posted from iPhone (Score:1)
FreddieMercuryHayes
Joined: 12/29/2010
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Whatever the offense, we need to use Denard's running ability to force defenses into that cover 0 we saw a lot of last year. With a downfield passing game, it could be truly deadly.

January 19th, 2011 at 12:25 PM | From now on we need to refer (Score:1)
A_Maize_Zing
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From now on we need to refer to this as the GRCC offense. 

I do think it is a good offense to run as a change up.  It puts a lot of stress on the secondary to come up for run support and still remain pass sound.  We already run some Veer concepts in the current offense and in someways I think Pistol formaton is harder for a defense to setup zone pressures against than traditional Offset spread formation is. 

January 19th, 2011 at 12:25 PM | But, but ... (Score:1)
maizenbluenc
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the Pistol works so well for Nevada and Indiana ...

January 19th, 2011 at 12:31 PM | Im pretty sure Chappel ran (Score:1)
Son of Tacopants
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Im pretty sure Chappel ran for like -679 yards this year. 

January 19th, 2011 at 1:32 PM | True... (Score:1)
hvsiii
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but he is also about as athletic as an Oak tree.

January 19th, 2011 at 12:26 PM | It's not a question (Score:1)
TennBlue
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of whether or not Nevada's offense is a good idea.  It's whether or not Al Borges knows how to run it.  If he doesn't have a history of using the Pistol, it's not likely to happen, however good of an idea it may seem.

January 19th, 2011 at 12:34 PM | Stay with what you know (Score:1)
WillieMaizeHayes
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I agree with the other posters that the coaches should stay with a base offense that they know. That said, I'm sure tweaks will be made to take advantage of Denard's strengths. I would imagine there will still be some plays that use the RB as a blocker for him.  I think Denard will also start to pull the ball down more often and run when the pass isn't there. I respect that he would stick with the play that was called, but sometimes he needs to just take off.

January 19th, 2011 at 12:38 PM | this sounds good...but hoke (Score:1)
Umichmadness
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this sounds good...but hoke needs to run whatever offense and defense that maximizes the talent on the roster while still implementing his principles so we dnt have to experience a re-building year

Immigration papers for entry into #hokenation; COMPLETE!!!!!!

January 19th, 2011 at 12:50 PM | Nevada's. TCU's, the Spread, Bo's... (Score:1)
BlueUPer
Joined: 10/03/2010
MGoPoints: 1320

Let's give these guys some credit.  They will adapt and our offense will be just fine.   Look at what SDSU  did to Navy on each side of the ball...something that Notre Dame couldn't.  We have much better personnel than SDSU.  

January 19th, 2011 at 12:58 PM | On a big tangent, but that (Score:1)
justingoblue
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On a big tangent, but that ND-Navy game was just weird.

Go Blue!

January 19th, 2011 at 1:01 PM | Weird! (Score:1)
BlueUPer
Joined: 10/03/2010
MGoPoints: 1320

It was weird that a superior ND team got its ass kicked by a bunch of Rivals 2 stars and lower, who played with discipline and heart!  

January 19th, 2011 at 1:04 PM | And grit. Don't forget about (Score:1)
david from wyoming
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And grit. Don't forget about grit!

/lazy sports writer meme

Are you a park ranger at Yellowstone? Say hi to Yogi Bear for me. - the_big_house 500th

I may not be a 70 year old man. - Herm

January 19th, 2011 at 1:23 PM | A few of the smaller guys (Score:1)
dakotapalm
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A few of the smaller guys seemed to have MOXIE!

January 19th, 2011 at 1:15 PM | Well, the fact that Navy (Score:1)
justingoblue
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Well, the fact that Navy absolutely curbstomped them while apparently Brian Kelly didn't know what kind of offense Navy ran made it weird.

Then again, any time Navy lays an asswhooping on ND it's (historically) weird.

Go Blue!

January 19th, 2011 at 1:17 PM | OK... (Score:1)
BlueUPer
Joined: 10/03/2010
MGoPoints: 1320

Well said!  

January 19th, 2011 at 1:16 PM | SDSU's personnel (Score:1)
trussll12
Joined: 11/21/2010
MGoPoints: 204

Not sure about "much better personnel than SDSU" at all positions -- did you watch their RB, for instance? 

The SDSU/Navy game looked like SDSU had better athletes, which isn't surprising considering that SDSU is in So. California, and that Hoke was able to bring in copious amounts of JUCOs.

January 19th, 2011 at 12:43 PM | This is absolutely genius. (Score:1)
M2GoBlue
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This is absolutely genius. Pistol is such an effective way to have pro style and spread concepts all in one scheme. Denard would be the perfect player to run it. Not to mention we could run the option.

January 19th, 2011 at 12:49 PM | I think we need some diversity in our offense. (Score:1)
LB
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We can use the TripleProBonePisShotFlexnReadVeerOption. No one knows how to coach it, but sounds impressive if used correctly in 30 second sound bites.

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