ND/BK Post USC

I agree that BK's an ass, but... "coffin in the nail?"

It will be far worse than Charile Weiss's failure.  That team is going to be absolutely stacked with talent - on both offense and defense -  in the next couple of years...If I had to bet fifty cents, though, it would be that ND is a national title contender in the near future. 

why it's seen as such a crime when a coach says "yeah, the players fucked up too."  

I don't have a problem with any of that except specifically calling out Cierre Wood. He is an asshat but sometimes players really do need to be kicked in the ass. I believe most of us would characterized their underachieving season on the players' lack of execution, not the coaches. We indeed dodged a bullet, not because of Kelly not coming here, but because he hit some bad luck at Notre Dame and most likely won't awake that sleeping giant.

I continue to be amazed at how ND is still able to recruit with this clown at the helm.  Not only that, how they have managed to do it for years now, with that cavalcade of losers they've had coaching there in the past 10-15 years.

Every coach coaches differently. As he has made very clear through his actions this year (and in the past but not covered in the media), he is a very in-your-face coach. Yes, he screams and yells at players. And yes, in these comments he is clearly calling out his players in the national media. And yes, I don't agree with this practice and greatly prefer the way our coaching staff handled a loss (taking the blame and not putting it on the players).

However, with all that being said, I don't think you can exactly say that his coaching style isn't effective. Sure he has lost some games this year and majority of ND fans are not happy with him. But maybe, just maybe, calling out his players like this will actually motivate them to work even harder.

Most people would agree that this is not what a 'good' coach should do, but I think that if ND was winning games and he was acting in the same way (yelling at players, getting pissed, etc) and the team was winning, this would be a non-issue. And also, it seems to me like what he is saying is fairly true - bad mistakes by key players in leadership roles have cost them the games that they have lost; the school does have high expectations for its players; championship football is not played by making mistakes like they play.

ND BCS champs 2012.

ND does not get beat, they beat themselves damn it.

I also think it is too early to write-off Brian Kelly at ND.  But the trend is pretty amazing:

• Bob Davie was a highly-respected defensive coach who built the fearsome "Wrecking Crew" at Texas A&M, before failing spectacularly at ND;
• Ty Willingham built Stanford into a Rose Bowl team in a reasonably competitive Pac-10, then went to ND and became a shell of his former self;
• Charlie Weis was the celebrated OC of the New England Patriots and entered South Bend with multiple Super Bowl rings, but was promplty shoved out of town like Willie Lump Lump;
• Brian Kelly won national championships with GVSU and turned Cincinnati into a top-5 program, but already at ND he is better known for his sideline tantrums and media gaffes than gridiron wins.

You have to think that, sooner or later, ND is going to hire a coach who will be able to replicate his prior success once he gets to South Bend.  Or is there something about the institutional culture or other factor unique to ND that causes these coaches to fail?

In addition to complaining about Kelly, ND Nation is also complaining about the piped in music (wait: if ND Nation is complaining about this, I might have to rethink my dislike of Special K)

Some tidbits...

Does anybody doubt that Kelly was the main proponent...
by KevinG

...of jock rock for ND Stadium? While I understand it is not his final decicion, I have do doubt he was pushing for it, hoping it would cover for his defense's ability to get the crowd fired up.

He is white trash, and sees Outback Steakhouse as fine dining for him and his wife (at least he did when he was a glorified gym teacher in Allendale)

Can we confirm whether he drives an IROC-Z or TransAm?

Here's the particular delusion we all know and love...

Does anyone doubt that with Nick Saban we'd be 7-0?
by baydog

And not only in the hunt for a NC but the odds on favorite to make it to the NC BCS game? All things being equal I believe that to be the case. We now have enough of a track record on Kelly to pass judgment and I have come to the conclusion that he cannot and will not evolve into the position. Swarbrick should make the early call and get rid of him and most of his staff. Of course that raises the question who would want the job, yet alone take it and be given the reigns to be successful. I say Urban----offer him the keys to the kingdom.Unlike Kelly he has a real track record of winning at every level and nothing he did at UF rises to the level of public embarrassment Kelly has prodyuced on the field and on national TV. We don't like Meyer because he had the sense to say "no" to the IRISH and then took it to us in recruiting---too bad for ND. Thats why he is a winner. There's a reason people are calling Kelly "Faustian" this morning. It's time to end this chapter. Jumbotrons, shiny new helmets, Ozzy and rally flags are not the answer yet alone the problem---WINNING is the only issue---WIN and everything else no longer matters. WINNING at ND takes care of all recruiting issues. Giving Jonas Gray 3 touches, abandoning the running game, yanking Crist at the goal line and then throwing the team under the bus after a public beatdown and humiliation by USC tells any recruit all he needs to know about this coach. Swarbrick has his work cut out for him.

Yes, with this fan base, he does.

Hates the music, hates the Big House, hates the helmets, loves the Big Montana...

Anyone have an address to send a letter re: music?
by NDGrover

The only complaint letter I ever wrote came after Arby's dropped the Big Montana. This is even more egregious. I thought @Mich had the worst stadium production I had ever witnessed. Then we copied them, and poorly.

And the helmets looked like Christmas ornaments.

Why is ND schadenfreude so irresistible?

2 Cs, 3 Is, 3 Ns, 1 A, 1 T.

I'm not sure if this is worthy of a new thread, but I was browsing nd nation for some schadenfreude, and so far My favorite bit has been that Brian Kelly couldn't beat slippery rock while he was at Grand Valley State. It's worth a read.

http://ndnation.com/boards/showpost.php?b=football;pid=258526;d=this

EDIT: Wikipedia link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Valley_State_Lakers_football#1990s

Urban Meyer???  I doubt they would get rid of Kelly that fast, but I seem to recall ND was a dream job for Meyer at one point, even though he turned them down in the past for Florida...but who wouldn't.

It gives me so many ways to make fun of ND and piss off my ND friends. It's funny watching them say things to defend Kelly that they obviously know aren't true.

I don't understand why any college coach would ever do what he did, fingering guys to the national media. You want to call a guy out in the film room or in practice, fine. But these are 20 year old kids, and they don't need some hot tempered coach going off on them by name in the national media. Kelly is a jackass.

"If anything goes bad, I did it.  If anything goes semi-good, we did it.  If anything goes really good, then you did it.  That's all it takes to get people to win football games for you."

From Bear Bryant

His style will look a lot better and he'll look way smarter when he starts cycling through some NFL level talent. Right now, he has 1 guy.

I'm interested in seeing what Kelly does next year with Charlie Weis's last batch super recruits starting to graduate (or in Teo's case, mabye leaving early).  The classes that Kelly has been pulling in don't have that same level of talent.  The offense will find the going harder when they don't have Michael Floyd out there to get quadruple covered on every play. 

I just looked at ND's depth chart, and this is a "win now" year for them.  According to rivals, they have seven senior starters on defense, plus Teo.  On offense, they've got three seniors on the O-line and Michael Floyd.  Kelly's job could be in jeopardy next year.  They are going to have a lot of holes to fill. 

The Notre Dame-Air Force game had the lowest television ratings every for a ND broadcast on NBC.  With the loss to USC plus a less than exciting schedule for the rest of the season (Navy, at Wake Forest, Maryland in Washington DC, Boston College, at Stanford), you can imagine the television executives at NBC and ABC/ESPN are less than excited with Notre Dame (4-3) as a draw on television for the rest of the season.

The bigger picture surrounds conference realignment.  With Missouri looking more and more likely to be SEC bound and with the Big XII apparently preferring to add West Virginia as their tenth team (with BYU, Louisville and Cincinnati as possibilities), then the Big East's position as a standalone football conference is looking more perilous--and that includes maintaining its BCS status.  Notre Dame may have some major decisions to make here and the future of Brian Kelly might be a bit down the priority list.

As much as we were unrealistic with our expectations of RR in his first year (3-9) upon which we said..damn next year is barely going to be better (5-7) we at least adjusted our expectations.   

ND fans however take the cake.  I mean they went 8-5 in his 1st year and now they expect to be this 12 win all BCS team, I'm sorry but ol' Charlie did not leave the program in the best of shape.  ND's problem for the past 15 years is that they cannot coach up the kids while they are in school (this is evidenced by the 15 kids they have put in the NFL lately) and Charlie was the epiotomy of that. 

The problem with BK is that he pulled a RR (granted he walked into a fan base that did want him) but he made critical miscues early on which has caused the luster to fade combined with losing and until Urban decides to stay retired ND Nation will be calling for his head.    

"Cierre wood didn't live up the our expectations that have here for Notre Dame Players"

The blamin the clooective "team" stuff is OK by me, mainly because it's still generic enough. However, calling out a single player is not a good idea. At least some of the blame goes on the O-line, some on the coaching staff, some on a QB who can do pre-snap reads, some on the FB for a block...

Reminds me a little of the way Izzo calls out his players in the press as a way of motivating them.  I always thought Izzo was way too overboard in downgrading the performance of his individual players in the media...

the real signature of an institutional failing that makes it improbably hard to win at nd would be if folks who succeeded at nd went on to succeed as head coaches elsewhere. none of the 3 pre-kelly hires went on to do anything after nd. i suspect that lack of opportunity to fail elsewhere (ie: davie) relfects the judgement of athletic directors on their likelihood of success.

the options are either: 1. the institutional failure is in selecting coaches, and bk may or may not represent another failure or 2. the instibutional failure is a failure to create an environment conducive to winning and nd coaches have just had back luck or lacked opportunity elsewhere.

i think #1 is by far the most likely explanation - nd has done a lousy job of picking coaches. the question remains whether bk is a similarly lousy choice. the last two years haven't exactly inspired optimisism, but the jury is still out. the possiblity that he has run into a patch of disproprotionately crappy luck is still feasible. 

That fumble through Crist's legs that was returned 90 yards for a TD has got to one of the most unbelievable OMG LOL bad luck plays I've seen.

Got to feel bad for Crist though.

And Cierre is thinking the same thing...  He (Kelly) didn't live up to the expectations that we have for our coaches at Notre Dame....

I don't understand the obsession with Brian Kelly around the blog.  Everyone seems to be openly rooting for a guy to get fired that we've never lost to. 

He's a great coach, and this year's team is better than any team Weis put together. They've had unbelievably bad luck, the worst I've ever seen in a single year. I also get the sense that Kelly is dealing with a bunch of players with deeply held senses of entitlement, which may be a holdover from Weis era stuff.

Management is a tricky business. Sometimes calling people out is what you have to do, especially if you feel like they will respond to how they are perceived as opposed to what is said privately. When Kelly was at cincinatti I don't ever recall him having a press conference like the one he had on Saturday.

What would you think of a CEO who, on the investor call to discuss a bad quarterly report, said "I'm supposed to say it's all management's fault? Ultimately our workers have to get it done...."

Head football coach is, above all else, a management position. Taking responsibility, especially in public, is part of the job.

After this season, I'm wondering if MSU sold their "Sparty, NO!" to the Irish.

He should just admit he's not good at preparing his team and getting them ready for big rival games, instead of blaming them for his teams loss. SMH terrible coach

Is that every mistake is amplified x1000. BK yells at a player? OMG HE'S THE DEVIL!! WHAT A BAD MAN!!! And I'm still hearing about it on ESPN.  Notre Dame doesn't use their timeouts when USC has the ball inside the ND 10 with 2 minutes left down 14?  OMG THEY'RE QUITTERS!!! QUIT QUIT QUIT!!! HAHA ND SUX!!!

Meanwhile Nick Saban flips out in a press conference and curses at the media and everyone   just laughs it off.  Oh that Nick Saban... his temper is so adorable.  Nick Saban also grabbed a kid by the facemask and chewed him out basically spitting in his face.  On natonal TV.  And no one cares.

It is just insane the microscope Brian Kelly is under. I think about some of the stuff I heard our lax coach say to the players and refs during games... and I just crack up thinking about what the reaction would be if he had to live in the same fishbowl as Kelly.