Recruiting was never a problem at ND.
ND Recruiting is back - Five 5-stars (3 DEs)
there was a lot of thought that nd has been something of a paper tiger in recruiting - merely by having nd on the offer sheet a kid was likely to get a little extra mojo from the rating services than he would have otherwise. obviously, player development was abysmal under weis, but there were also an awful lot of highly rated recruits who showed up on campus and seemed smaller, weaker and slower than the thinking was prior to their arrival. nd would consistently watch guys lose stars after they signed - nd fans previously attributed this to anti-nd bias. but, i think a lot of it was that weis (particularly in the early years) was a terrible talent evaluator and as more data emerged on kids the real story of the kid's talent emerged and the recruiting services caught up.
one of the bits of kelly's promise is that he's probably a pretty decent talent evaluator. he managed to find quite a bit of talent at cincy in spite of the low star ratings. interestingly, this year we've had more kids get bumped up in the recruiting rankings as the year has gone on than have fallen down...small sample size and all...but, an interesting trend.
it'll be interesting to see how the kelly years play out. i think we've already started to see improvement in player development, particularly on defense. if he does a better job of selecting players than his predecessors, it could be a fun couple years in south bend. i'm cautiously optimistic for next year, which i sure hell didn't think i'd be saying after the navy/tulsa debacle.
He is gonna be scary good. ND will be a force, starting this fall.
I'm pretty worried about what it means for us. He is one of the best coaches in the NCAA.
not quite a Michigan man, but great ties to the state, lots of success, ya de ya de ya.
Kelly has done it at every school, in record time and adapts to personnel.
He's better than RR. A ton better.
Look at recruiting alone, he's 5x that of RR.
It's much easier to recruit at ND than at Michigan because of the private catholic school pipeline.
It's not exactly hard to recruit at Michigan. Let's get rid of this inferiority complex that's set in recently.
for most of the carr era, michigan ate notre dame's lunch in recruiting. as carr's energy waned and charlie came to town, who could at least recruit a little, the balance turned. its been tipped towards nd for the last couple years, but i have no confidence that it'll stay that way...
But it kinda makes you wonder where the success comes from.. Kinda Shady...
because he is considered to have questionable ethics and will cut corners in order to succeed.
I don't even know what to say to this but I am laughing, just wanted to let you know
some people from GVSU and CMU and they said the same thing. He is shady and cut corner to success.
Then again, you're a ND fan so....
Brian Kelly's record vs. RR: 0-2
0-2 in one season on the job is impressive, even by Notre Dame's standards!
Did they face each other in the Big East?
He's got Kelly beat on years of NCAA probation too, haha
I don't think you want to get into a battle of "bad things" that happened under a coach's watch.
Major glass house situation here.
"Too smug for my own good" appears to be a solid rating currently
I agree with a lot of what you said but I have a hard time giving him credit for evaluating talent and transferring it to success at Cinci. He was there 3 years so his recuits weren't doing much for those big east champion teams. This year "his" recuits won 4 game in the very bad big east.
Kelly can coach, no doubt. We will see if he can evaluate talent over the next couple years. Personally I hope the paper tiger continues.
He (or his staff) rebuilt the entire UC defense in one semester with his recruits which was the same year they went 12-0 in the regular season, you may have heard about it?
Granted he did take them to a 12-0 record in the weakest conference of the AQs. Then again that team which he left high and dry got crushed by florida in their bowl game. That game would have happend with the same result and he knew it that is why he bolted. Lets see how he recruits for once... I'm sure by the time his recruits come in he will be gone to the NFL anyways. So enjoy him for the 2-3 seasons you have him..
Err I think you are talking about Kelly... But I don't see him in the NFL anytime soon, if ever.
if they start combining recruiting sucess with some big wins, the media will be all over ND's and Kelly's knob so hard that it will suck the oxygen out of the room for other legit programs.
ND is kind of nerdy now as a program. Once the media machine gets back to the endless drumbeat of portraying it as an elite glamour program, it will cast a big shadow on other programs, especially in the midwest. It will be the '70's and '80's all over again.
Kelly's a good recruiter and will have ND back in the top 10 in a couple years. Look how he had them playing at the end of the year with a back up QB.
We need to start keeping pace, throw a little Hokus Pokus on recruits.
That team is going to make a big jump.
Uh, I don't think that kid is the back-up anymore. I am sure Crist will compete for the job, but it isn't necessarily his anymore...
the qb thing is probably the difference between a solid 8-9 win season and a bcs bowl game/getting into the conversation for the title game. on both sides of the ball the team returns a ton of starters, the areas where we lose guys (te, nt) are areas where the backups played most of the year anyway, and the team was playing much better at the end of the year than it was at the beginning.
a ton is riding on qb. crist is the big time talent, who disappointed in his half season before injury. rees has next to no talent, but managed to not screw things up and let the defense win games during the turnaround. andrew hendrix is a true frosh who most thought was more talented than rees and who may have the extra mobility that kelly has been looking for. everett golson is an early enrollee frosh this year that is a big time athlete that throws the ball reasonably well, but is awfully tiny to be a big time passing qb.
if kelly can solve the qb problem and define a successful offensive identity (spread passing team as we started the season under crist or power running team as we ended it with rees) 2011 will be huge. he better figure it out next year, because the 2012 schedule (and beyond) is brutal.
Wow, those are two tough schedules in 2012. We take Alabama and ND takes Oklahoma?!? Brutal! Let's hope our program can keep pace with Kelly in the next few years.
You should see 2013
has not been standing still.
We've fallen behind while we burnt down our house and attempted to rebuild it. Now we're going to do it again.
We need to get stable and get back to perennial top 10 classes. And quickly.
It's early, but it looks like we are now making some progress on the long rocky uphill climb back..
looking forward to what happens at UM this weekend, sounds like the stage is set for a big weekend should be fun
getting defensive players is kind of new
Returning to glory since...?
The potential to be incredible has been there for a while with their talent. Here's hoping Brian Kelly effs it up like the rest of the previous coaches have.
If they start developing their talent, the sky is the limit. However, that has been missing. Makes me wonder why. Is there S&C bad or is the academic load to much?
Unless Kelly has another student death or personally gets a cheerleader pregnant ND will rise from the ashes of mediocrity. Brian Kelly is great at finding raw gems and turning them into studs. Tony Pike was 4th on the depth chart at Cincy and flourished under Kelly. Lefevour was putting up Tebo esque numbers at CMU. The guy can flat out recruit, evaluate, and develop talent.
Fuck Nd! And this is OT
Michigan won't lose this game
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ND has had ample opportunity to join the Big Ten. They have chosen not to. The sissy ass Big East laid down for them and allowed them to join up -football and became NDs bitch. ND is not in the Big Ten and never should be!
It's still your fault we lost Tuesday and I have not forgotten it.
At least that's what I've heard.
...recruiting was a problem at for the Irish. As they say, "We Are ND!" Year in and year out, they are the most physically talented team on the schedule. During the Weis regime, they just weren't the most mentally talented team on the schedule. We can only hope that Kelly continues to carry that torch!
Well I am going to heavily disagree and say that OSU takes that torch. They have pro talent littered all over the field year in and year out especially on the defensive side.
...coin toss, IMO.
gonna go with OSU too
Why can't Michigan get more, or should I say any, 5 star recruits?
Why does ND consistently have good recruiting classes, but poor performance on the field ?
These are questions that keep me up at night.
Not to bring back repressed memories, but we probably would have landed Frost and Hart this class had RR stayed and both are 5 stars.
Why would any big time recruit go to ND? If you want great academics go to Michigan. If you want to live in the middle of nowhere go to Alabama or Auburn, at least then you don't have to freeze your ass off. I understand ND has a name but they have not been relevant for the majority of these kids lives. This is a program that lost to Navy (again) and Tulsa. You can't tell me all these kids are Catholic. Not to mention the program seems to be run by some shady characters.
This might be a little bit of a simplified view. There are many great academic institutions around, including Notre Dame. Hell, we all laughed (or at least I did) when Myron Rolle chose FSU for their academics and he ended up a Rhodes Scholar
i'm obviously not an elite recruit, but some of the things that recruits mention:
1. academics. not just in the sense of the school's academic reputation, but in the sense that football players are well educated and leave the place with a degree.
2. post-graduation opportunities. nd almuni are a famously close bunch and tend to take care of their own. nd does very well in the national rankings (ie: us news) largely because a huge chunk of the alumni give money to the place and give a lot of it, for example.
3. religion. not catholocism per se, but its important to some guys that the school has a strong religious identity.
4. parents. this one is often very important. but, through a combination of 1-3 and a general sense that their kid is less likely to get into serious trouble at nd, its often the case that the kid wants to go to good-weather-hot-chicks school and the parent wants them to go to nd, stay out of trouble, go to church and graduate.
5. exposure. the magnitude of this benefit has diminished over time, but there is still a relevant advantage. there is no such thing as a hugely successful player at nd that isn't well known nationally.
6. new coaches. this is the one upside of changing coaches every 3 years. you can always pitch kids on a narrative that things are going in the right direction and that they can get in on the ground floor, get early playing time etc.
Sounds a lot like Michigan, minus the religion thing, and hopefully the new coach every 3 years.
the Ty W. years. Frontal Ass always had great success at recruiting; he simply didn't know what to do with it. Anyone that can pull a 5* Samoan into SB has to be considered a great recruiter, but that's a small example. His speciality was somehow getting the top ranked qb for his offense every year, and the 5* rbs and OLmen didn't hurt either.
The one real thing that has returned to ND is a coach.
I'm pretty sure ND graduates a much higher percentage of their football players than UM does.
yeah, can you bold the "much" for me?
I'm going to have to emphatically disagree here. People go to ND because it has national recognition. They have the NBC contract which guarantees they are on television every week. If they play away, ABC or ESPN almost always picks up the game.
On top of that, despite the fact that they have not been in the national hunt for some time, they get talked about based on talent almost every year. They still send plenty of players to the NFL.
Combine those points with a top notch education (perhaps even better than U of M's depending on the field) and you are talking about an all-around great collegiate experience.
Don't get me wrong, I hope we stomp them into the ground. I'm just saying...
Not all of the f-ball players are Catholics. Manti Teo is of the Mormon creed.
It was weird how the Stephon Tuitt thing played out. Kid was a ND commit until a few days ago when he switched to GT, now hes back with the Domers 2 days later. I feel like Kelly told him that Jesus wouldnt love him if he went to Georgia Tech...
Iv'e heard that everytime someone decommits from ND a kitten dies.
lets just say there was a certain HS coach that wanted a certain job at GT and there may have been a best friend, who was offered for being the best friend
Look at Fat Charlie's classes. They were always highly ranked, and look at what happened.
Nothing wrong with the offenses, the defenses were terrible. Sounds kinda familiar.
Ray Drew, come on down!
but for real, can we haz some 5 star defensive recruits?
Kelly will be dangerous @ ND, I sure hope we can keep the RR Win streak alive against the Domers as they are my #1 hated team.
I hate that I like Brian Kelly. I know he's the enemy. I know he makes win-at-all-cost decisions (see: QB concussions vs. Michigan), but he is from my area and is a great coach. People around here and who have played for him at GVSU talk very highly of him.
I know he's not from here and should have made that more clear, but as you said he did spend a great deal of time here while coaching and still has family in Allendale schools, so yeah.
As a GVSU alum, I couldn't agree more. He does top notch work with lesser talent IMHO. He's going to be tough to beat for the next few years, there's no doubt about that.
I only count 4, 3 defensive lineman and the tight end? Their class definitely looks solid, BK scares me.
ND got better as the season went on and beat some teams that in previous years they might not have beaten, couple that with top 5 classes.....ugh... ND looks like a load.....beer sales going up in pubs all across America.
They lost some close games early. They got blown out by Navy and lost to Tulsa relatively late in the year. They did beat a USC team that was having a down year and a Miami team that was over rated to start the year in the bowl game. I'm not saying they didn't improve but they had a favorable schedule to say the least.
ND started off the season 1-3 and finished it 6-2 with 4 of the 6 wins coming against teams who went to bowl games (yeah, there's a ton of bowl games) and one of the other wins against a team who was ineligible for a bowl game (USC).
not sure about favorable schedule. before the bowl games were taken into account, they had the # 1 strength of schedule. they may have played some easy teams, but certainly not more so than anyone else.
Having the the hardest schedule in the country is favorable to ND fans but I don't think it supports your point of view
Even though Charlie's defenses always sucked, I feel like they had a lot of highly recruited players... T'eo was a 5-star.
Looks like they will have pretty good personel for a 3-4 in the upcoming future.
I hate that you have more than enough points to start a thread like this. Damn you!
I hate recruiting.
I had lost track amid all our coaching news and whatnot.
Their kicker commit for the 2011 class is very, very good. Wish he would have went blue, saw him play live and it was unreal.
Hopefully we will get a solid kicker ourselves/
Where did it go? It never left.
The real question is whether talent development and success is back at ND. There is some evidence from last year to suggest this is the case, but the jury is definitely still out. BK is a pretty terrible in-game coach and made some very Weis-like decisions. They also lost to some pretty crappy teams. Wait and see if their success from later in 2010 carries over to next year; then you can begin to worry that they hired someone good.
Did you know UM was ND's worst loss of the season
It is really strange how ND has consistently been pulling world-beater classes and then being so-so on the field.
Three 5-stars on the D-Line is pretty impressive though.
world beater classes? ND's recruiting classes haven't been rated much higher than UM's over the past 6 seasons
Returning to glory since 1993.
Same b.s., different year.
Not that it matters too much here, but remember that Scout is more generous with stars than Rivals (which has 2, instead of 5, 5-star recruits listed for them).
if you're really worried about stars Lynch is only 2 spots out of getting his 5th on Rivals
until they win and keep winning. recruits are great, and obviously the better they are helps too. but lets be honest here, ND hasnt had the best 15 years and until they compete for the BCS then they are NOT back...
Am I running out of good opportunities to use this picture?
I'd like Notre Dame to get better. It would be nice to mop the floor with a respectable team for a change.
but id trade a loss to them for a win over the school in the armpit of america anyday!
I'd like to see them go 0-12, have NBC drop their contract, and be booted from all other sports from the Big East and have to join the Horizon League.
For the first time in a long time ND has a professional coach with a history of success as a head coach. I think he will do well. Look for many parallels to be made between Hoke and Kelly.
Very OT; why the hell do we should we care about what ND is doing. FUCK EM'
To Hell with Notre Dame
ND's class certainly has a lot of star power at the top, but Rivals has them ranked behind where Scout does, and ESPN probably has them lower than that (because ESPN basically thinks any kid who plays Midwestern football is inferior to someone from Texas or Florida, so all Big 10 schools and ND suffer in their rankings).
Generally, they don't have the depth of a really top-notch class. I'll be afraid of ND when they start translating recruiting success to fearsome defenses and explosive weapons on offense--hasn't happened yet.
we are eons behind them. i think its a perception thing, kids see kelly as rising and UM as falling.
we are eons behind them.
The last two meetings suggest otherwise.
The last decade suggests otherwise.
Charlie Weis recruited extremely well himself. The question is whether ND's staff can get the most out of these guys. I'm not a big believer in Bobby Diaco, their DC.
Even when ND was terrible they still somehow got amazing recruiting classes.
Why worry about Notre Dame? The whole point is to beat them when they're good, not become scared of them because they're good.
Kelly is way, way over rated. That comment that Kelly is better than Rodriguez is crazy. But that no longer matters, all that matters is how often Hoke sticks it to Kelly. If we beat ND the next two years (which on talent alone we should), then it will be three in a row for my friend Brian... and I'm fairly certain the Irish will run him outta town by then.
If talent is all that matters then why are so many trying to discredit the recruiting class?
I was hoping at least the recruiting would slack under Kelly compared to Weis, looks like they made a good move, hopefully ours will have the same success.
to see RR get fired than ND. We had a chance to be THE mecca for spread-offense type players in the midwest with RR. With him gone now Kelly will have a field day with recruiting.
Kelly is a great coach....that is not a debate. I have a growing fear that we will see in the Irish what we could have been had we had more patience with RR. Thats not to say we cannot be good with Hoke...but i am not convinced he is anywhere near the coach Kelly or RR is.
Like it or not....ND is a great school too....and now they have a truly good coach to deal with those great classes they always seem to pull.
They will be a national force to be dealt with in the very near future.
But the story of this commitment seems so wrong. I'm not sure if it is from the kids side or ND, but the ESPN article on is just horrible.
Hours before the meeting with the Notre Dame contingent, Tuitt confirmed his pledge to the Yellow Jackets with Georgia Tech coaches.
he was originally committed to ND, switched to GT for a few hours, ND coaches met with him last night and he recommitted to ND last night
Diaco is absolutely slaying it.
I can't believe people want Notre Dame to be bad. Are you serious? They're our rival. I rarely use caps lock, but I'll make an exception. THE WHOLE POINT IS TO BEAT THEM WHEN THEY'RE GOOD!
They're a fucking rival, don't be afraid of them.
Now thats what I am talking about. I agree 100%.