I think the Death Penalty is not fair, but that's about it
Mike Lantry, 1972
I think the Death Penalty is not fair, but that's about it
The difference between Bo and Paterno is that Bo possessed the wisdom to know when to walk away and had the courage to face life without football. Had he wanted to remain head coach of Michigan for life, he could have, and the culture of football worship that he helped create at Michigan would have allowed it. Who knows what kind of unpleasant consequences could have resulted from that. Fortunately for us, Bo was willing to put the good of Michigan ahead of himself. The sad truth about Joe Paterno is that for all the good things he did for PSU and the community, in the end he proved that it was all about Joe Paterno first and everything else second. If Joe had put school ahead of himself, then so many evils could have been avoided, and the result is that he wound up destroying the thing he claimed to love.
When George Washington gave up the presidency at the end of his second term in office, Napoleon was known to have been incredulous that someone could willingly give up absolute power. I don't think we'll never know how lucky we are as Michigan fans/alumni that Bo Schembechler was more Washington than Napoleon.
Lionsfan, I understand it sucks to be a fan of an institution which is about to get hammered. But making all these arguments about protecting the current players is exactly the mentality which caused all this to happen. It's about time all off us (yes, I include myself) fanatics get a harsh reminder of the proper priority college athletics should be.
I know the commissioners, coaches, and athletic directors love the money, attention, and power they have. All of the realignment and playoff talks have reaffirmed that. But schools are exactly that, schools. This situation is a great reminder that the education of everyone who steps foot on a campus is far more important that wins, losses, championships, etc. If you can not see that, than you have been swept up in this mentality just like the leaders of Penn State did.
The Lionsfan bit is the Detroit Lions. Not the Nittany Lions. I really don't care about PSU, I'm just giving my opinion. Just to clear that bit up
Sorry for misunderstanding on the name.
The points to your opinions still stay the same.
This one might sting a bit. Hopefully after this we can all move on. Getting tired of the non stop press and discourse about PSU.
I understand the sentiment of wanting to move on, but I do not agree with it. This is not only the most significant scandal in NCAA history, but also quite likely the biggest scandal in the history of Educational institutions in this country. People should be made to never forget what has happened here. Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it. I hope they bring this up at every PSU football game from now until there is no longer a program, Teachers should discuss this in class. We can't just "move on" from this.
How would a fine be unprecedented?
Death penalty and TV ban are not unprecedented either. Remember those words came from a source and not set in stone.
I just think the NCAA is doing this for good publicity, and it will be a punishment that will not damage the program long term. It is surprising they are punishing before full story is out as the perjury trials of Curley and Schultz are bound to reveal more detail.
It almost seems the NCAA wants to punish before news gets worse, similar to the North Carolina academic scandal where UNC pretty much got off scottfree. UNC got their NCAA sanctions in March, but most of the details of the scandal are coming out now. If the NCAA were to investigate today, the UNC basketball program would have been involved.
Also with Big Ten Media Days this week, this may make it less of a circus that it is already going to be.
Unprecedented = no death penalty. I wonder what they've got in mind exactly. Strange to see it come so fast, too.
It's not good for the NCAA to have Penn State be the topic of conversation in the national media every day. I do wonder what they're going to do however, that could be "unprecedented." Can the whole athletic department? Disallow home games for multiple years? Give the NCAA power over all personnel decisions of the Penn State football program for an extended period of time, including hiring a special overseer of sorts?
We shall see, I suppose.
Joe Schad clears up the "unprecedented" thing:
What is unprecedented is the process through which PSU punishment handed out, not necessarily the penalties
If they have no football for 1 or more years... do we still qualify as having 12 teams and a conference championship game?
NCAA seemingly has a waiver for everything under the sun. I'm sure their is a waiver for us to keep the championship game in this case. Unless Delany screws the paperwork up or something.
Why can't the NCAA leave their nose out of this. Let the legal system deal with the criminals, the NCAA should only be invovled when dealing with issues that give programs unfair advantages.
This scandal is rooted in the PSU culture surrounding football. NCAA is in the position to do something to change that culture. Why should they be prevented from acting?
How will the NCAA change the culture at PSU with the sanctions? They have already removed the coaching staff, and those who are legally guilty will be tried in court.
suspend football for some finite amount of time.
Because it was 3-4 people not at the university, if anything they should be fined heavily and banned from any university contact. But punishing a student body and student athletes that had no knowledge of any of these incidents is bit over the the top and typical NCAA. Bring the hammer on things that shouldnt be and not bring the Hammer on things that should (OSU).
The student body deserves to be punished based on their support of Paterno. They don't get it and only care about their football program. F em
The NCAA needs to repudiate the Paterno cult and the football culture at PSU. The school, the student & the alumni still have not fully come to terms with the moral and ethical failings that occurred for at least the 13 years from 1998-2011.
They need a timeout. The suspension of football for one or more years is the slap in the face the school, athletic department, students & alumni seem to require to get some fucking perspective.
Yeah, because covering up a bunch of free tatoos is WAY worse than covering up the fact that a pedophile is on staff . . .
I started where you are but the more I think about it, not dealing with all of the ramifications for years was a competitive advantage. Not saying they should squash the program but PSU got by for a very long time by selling a (false) image.
Just 'cause it's colleges?? = businesses
Covering up a potentially ruinous scandal that would damage recruiting and get the coach fired was not a gaining a competitive advantage? Do you really need this spelled out?
Has the NCAA ever ordered a school to take down a statue? Maybe Penn State knew the penalty.
Between the statue coming down today and the quickness of these penalties (the NCAA hasn't even officially accused Penn St. of violations yet), I'm thinking these are some sort of penalties the NCAA and Penn St. mutually agreed to in order to get this over with. If that's the case, those hoping for the death penalty are probably going to be disappointed, because I don't think Penn St. would agree to that.
The coverup of this scandal is so heinous, I'm sure PSU's new administration and it's BOT want to stop the bleeding. Destroying and rebuilding the football team goes a long way to correcting the culture that jopa and others created around it. Send the message that football isn't bigger than PSU.
Football is bigger than PSU... and the welfare of children. That's the whole point really.
To quote our fearless blogger out of context: "burn. All burn"
In the above statement from November 2011 are the four questions that Penn State had to answer for the NCAA.
The bylaws referenced point to the two issues that wouldn't surprise anyone here, of course - bylaws regarding institutional control and ethical conduct. Perhaps the most telling mention is 19.01.2, which in a nutshell says that individuals employed by member institutions are essentially teachers and therefore are to be held to a higher critical standard. This one has been used before in infractions cases, and I do agree with the sentiment - what sort of example fo young student-athletes did they really set with their behavior at Penn State? It's a totally fair thing to wonder, I believe.
This is going to be like Ohio State all over again. Lots of hype, very little action.
Wrong wrong wrong
But your post puts a thought in me.
What is Pryor had selected psu, where his dad wanted him to go? What a fiasco the last few years would have been at psu on top of this... And senator vest Ed still be at Ohio.
I think this as a word refers to the situation, not the magnitude of the penalties. But we'll see shortly.
Agree. I can't think of another time they have used a 3rd party's investigation rather than conduct one themselves before levying punishment. I really doubt there are any punishments left that have no precedent, unless it is lifelong expulsion from the NCAA--which isn't happening
Actually, that's typically how they do it. We hired a law firm to investigate the Ed Martin scandal, and the NCAA accepted it. They didn't investigate themselves.
The unprecedented part may reflect that they don't usually punish schools for this type of event. That said, there really hasn't been this type of event before. What ever happened to the Syracuse basketball scandall? Should Syracuse expect similar penalties?
What happened at PSU is a lot worse than what happened at Syracuse, though. I've always been kind of wary of the NCAA's involvement in this case, but I can see the other side of the argument that nothing like this has really happened before. I could understand why the NCAA would crack down.
I don't know much about what happened at Syracuse, but I do recall their coach making jokes about it. I guess PSU football is way more high profile and there's evidence a cover up. Still, I'd expect some version of a punishment now that the door is open.
There were no jokes. Boeheim called the accusers of Bernie Fine "liars".
Here is the timeline.
Accuser 1 comes out in 2003 to ESPN, ESPN ignores said accusations and holds on to tape of wife of Fine and accuser talking about it.
2011: Accuser 1, and step brother Accuser 2, come out 4 weeks post PSU scandal about Bernie Fine allegations.
Bernie Fine is terminated from employment. FBI called in.
Accuser 3 submits that Fine also abused him. 3 is also standing trial for pedophilia and rape.
Accuser 4 submits Fine abused him.
Accuser 4 recants story.
Accuser 3 tells everyone that he "lied". Then backtracks and says that he didn't.
Accuser 1 and 2 tell everyone who will listen this is not about money.
Accuser 1 + 2 are informed they cannot file civil suit against Syracuse or Fine due to lack of evidence. Criminal suit has had statue of limitations run up.
Accuser 1 + 2 sue Syracuse Boeheim for defamation of character for money.
Entirely weird case.
very strange. thanks for the timeline. no wonder nobody is talking about it anymore.
Basically, turned out the guys were lying, and after the Penn State situation, ESPN was trying to capitalize.
That's why it's all just gone away.
Unprecedented could mean a multiyear death sentence. SMU only got one year, they did the extra year voluntary. I'm a little surprised this is happening prior to PSU getting hammered for Clery Act violations, but at least the NCAA will take care of it. Here is to hoping the B1G members over in the Woody Division are on the phones with MAC schools tomorrow trying to get a last minute date.
There is no letter of inquiry or hearing so it is most likely PSU worked with NCAA on any sanctions possibly coming down tomorrow. Any multiyear death penalty would probably need a hearing.
For me the fact that the NCAA is doing penalties prior to the Clery Act issues being resolved and prior to any kind of real hearing or response from PSU, but doing it before summer practice starts, suggests the kind of penalties where kids are free to transfer.
If they were just going to bowl ban or fine PSU, they could do wait a month and do more of an investigation.
Regarding the hearing, it could be PSU's admins saw the writing on the wall and just agreed to the suspension. It gets PSU out of the news cycle faster as opposed to having six more months of the NCAA investigating and all kinds of stories breaking about that investigation. Also there are other forces, I work under some folks who are big names in the CiC and they were furious about the coverup. There could also be pressures like the CiC/B1G saying "Shut up and take your medicine or learn to schedule as an independent." Basically if PSU got anything less than the death penalty there is going to be a movement within the B1G for removal of them. I base this on a conference I was at where some PSU Associate Dean tried to make a joke to downplay the scandal and the other 12 CiC delegations just ripped him to shreds for the next half hour. He eventually slunk off the stage and wasn't seen for the rest of the conference. The rest of the PSU delegation spent their time trying to fade into the walls.
Basically when the guys who want the death penalty start talking in CiC meetings, no one moves to defend PSU and push a lesser penalty. No one is willing to spend political capital to save PSU and there are guys who are willing to spend it to kill PSU.
I disagree with one point. If the penalty is not really extreme than their news cycle will be 10 fold
Well I was assuming the accepted at least some level of death penalty as the deal. Otherwise as you said, one of the storylines for this entire season is "Did PSU deserve the death penalty?".
If they really want to show the appropriate level of remorse(which frankly they haven't shown any of to this point) they would vacate their wins from the Paterno era and remove any evidence of their existence from PSU's campus. That would be a start.
I hope the NCAA is Rome, and Penn State is Carthage.