There are plenty of productive players on crap teams. Volume along guarantees gaudy numbers.
NBA Draft Open Thread (Not OT - Yay!)
But he was volume WITH EFFICIENCY on an extremely shitty team.
The guy doesn't have All Star skills. That much is known. The Pistons have had that in Stuckey and Knight. Whoop-di-do.
KCP changes nothing about the Pistons. They still are a shitty, rudderless team that has no identity, no sizzle, and no reason to watch them play. KCP excites no one, but his mother. He probably will put up decent numbers, but the Pistons don't need 17 pgs from a SG. They need 14-7, from a PG. They need a floor general to set up Monroe, Knight, and Drummond. As of now they have no one to do that.
It isn't a coincidence that the Pistons greatest successes as a franchise came with All Stars at PG.
You have no idea what you're talking about and you've probably never even heard of Caldwell-Pope until now, let alone seen him play.
The Pistons have a ton of needs. Two of them are floor spacing and efficient guard play.
This kid is an extremely efficient scorer, dead eye long range shooter, a great rebounder for his position, and a solid defensive player. Who cares if he's an exciting name? Can he ball? That's all I care about.
Burke and Knight would be a terrible defensive back court. Which was also, as I'm sure you well know, one of the staples of those championship Pistons teams.
The Pistons also plan on bringing back one of the best passing point guards in the game, Jose Calderon to run the offense, as a stop gap. Just as an FYI, in case you quit paying attention to the Pistons half way through the year, Calderon was pretty instrumental in Andre Drummond playing like a monster down the stretch.
The rest of your post is utter nonsense.
You build teams at the PG and C positions, not the SG position. Guess what the Pistons biggest need is? PG!
You are right. Knight and Burke would be problematic defensively as a backcourt. That's why you trade Knight for a two guard. But you first have to have a floor general.
SG's can be had fairly easily in the NBA. SG and SF are dime-a-dozen. Good PGs not so much.
And if KCP is the elite talent that you make him out to be than why did he go 8th in one of the weakest drafts in NBA history?
Your post is a feeble apologia for a franchise that is ran by a bunch of graduates of "Matt Millen's School of Managerial Buffoonery". That you defend such imbeciles undercuts the quality of your points.
Oh and I even said that KCP was a decent player. I don't dispute that. But he doesn't fill a need. The SG position has become for the Pistons what receiver was for the Lions. A position constantly being filled by supposedly "good players". It never ends with this team.
You could make a very good argument that you don't really need an "all star level" point guard to build a championship team in the NBA.
The Heat's 3 championship teams in the 21st century didn't have one. The Lakers' 5 championship teams in the 21st century didn't feature one.
The Mavs didn't have one.
Tony Parker wasn't one yet during the Spurs' 1st championship.
Rajon Rondo is an all star now, but he was basically an afterthought on the Celtics' championship team in 08.
Jordan's Bulls never had one.
Who is to say that the Pistons absolutely need to follow what worked for them in the past? That doesn't make any sense.
SGs can't be had fairly easily in the NBA. Are you kidding me? There are only like 4 or 5 good ones in the entire league. James Harden, Kobe Bryant. Dwane Wade, and....who else? JR "playoff drinking" Smith? Eric "can't stay healthy" Gordon? Manu Ginobili? Joe Johnson? It's arguably the weakest position in the entire NBA, maybe even weaker than center.
My post isn't full of apologia, it's just eviscerating someone who clearly has no idea what the fuck they're talking about.
The fact that you think KCP doesn't fit a need, and the fact that you don't understand how efficiency works, implying that he was basically a looter during a riot sort of player, when that couldn't be further from the truth, says all I need to know about your basketball knowledge.
Do the Pistons have a superstar? No. So your point there fails.
Secondly, You keep blathering on about KCP and his statistics(as if he is the ONLY guy in this or any draft with decent statistics in college) when I REPEATEDLY allowed that he may be a decent player in the league. My point, Mr. Obtuse, is that all things being equal I'd much rather take a solid starter at PG than at SG because PG is historically more important to a team's success(particularly if they do not have a superstar) than a SG.
Thirdly, please name me a team with NO superstars who won championships without All Stars at either the PG or C position.
Finally, KCP is not nor likely will be a superstar in the NBA. The same will might be true for Burke. But Burke plays a much more important position than KCP does. Ergo, the pick ought to be the PG. See, I'm not even saying Burke is the better player. I'm only saying that he plays a position more crucial for a star-less team like the Pistons.
Your argument is so weak that you have to resort to strawmen. Re-read my posts. KCP as a player is not the issue here. It's who was available and the position that player plays that is the issue.
It was mostly will Bynum who helped Drummond out. Seems like he has much more success with him than Calderon.
There is no need because no matter what the fact that we passed on Burke will take a while for some people to see the good side of the KCP pick
It's not so much that KCP can't be a good player, but it makes no sense to pass up on a guy that can 1) fill the void at PG and 2) instantly generate interest in the franchise.
Im right there with you and like the pope pick I live down in Georgia and see him often and people are really gonna like him. The issue is that everybody is emotional and wanted the pick with their heart when in reality it was not the best pick for the team they needed a 2 guard much more. I really believe that had trey played for MSU or OSU people would not be upset at all.
Why do the Pistons need a 2 more than a 1? Are you really sold on Brandon Knight or Jose Calderon?
Im sold on Knight being a 6th man and Calderon being a servicable stop gap the Pistions have already been linked to big intrest in Eric Bledsoe. Another issue is a Burke and Knight backcourt would be just too small, it fits better. Trust me I wanted Burke but I really feel there is a huge over reaction going on, KCP is a really good playe
Stop acting like he is Dominique Wilkins because he isn't. He simply is another Rodney Stuckey/Brandin Knight-type player who puts up decent numbers while doing little-to-nothing to materially impact wins and losses.
It was a stupid pick by an obtuse GM and a owner who knows more about hair gel than basketball.
I never said he was and for the record I love Trey but I dont think he will be an All Star either. All I am saying is that the pick is not as bad a people want to make it seem but it will be impossible to get that point across.
They now have three shooting guards and no point guards.
So was Knight. Detroit has had its' KCPs. What it hasn't had is a PG. The Pistons are team with no identity. KCP is not going to change that.
The hate is not aobut the player, but about what the team needs. It doesn't need a KCP. It needs a PG. PG and C are where you build your team, not SG and SF.(Unless you have a James) The belief that Brandin Knight is suddenly going to develop PG instincts is laughable.
All I say is let the off season play out because im pretty sure we will be very active and if we acquire a player like Bledsoe then opinions will change very fast.
Thanks Joe for running the whole draft for me. Fucker.
Can we all agree that Trey Burke's mom had a great interview?
(and is one sexy mother)
What's with this shit on the inside of the jackets!? Get off my lawn
Kinda funny that Dallas apparently can't give the 13th pick away
Pistons could've gotten in on that action, they had 2 2nd rounders to trade and Shabazz was still on the board.
I thought they traded this pick in the Burke deal?....Take Timmy!
Calm down, mugs. No need to hate on Caldwell-Pope info. The dude didn't draft himself....but I guess we're going full on RCMB couch burning mode.
Kelly Olynyk reminded me how happy I was when Gonzaga lost in the 2nd/3rd round of the tournament
Bill Simmons is the best
Dumars needs canned
2013 was so close to being - and really should have been - the MOST EPIC MICHIGAN/DETROIT draft in history.
The Lions had the most popular Wolverine in almost ever fall to their pick in the 5th, and they really could have used his diverse offensive weapons... and they picked a kicker.
The Pistons had the most popular Wolverine in almost ever fall to their #8 pick, and they really needed a true PG and team leader and identity... and they picked elsewhere.
We almost had Denard and Burke playing for Detroit teams. How epic would that have been? There would have been so much energy in support of the Detroit teams.
I'm a sad panda.
Well, whether it would've been best for those teams or not. You can bet they would've sold a lot of tickets and jerseys initially
So we know where Trey will be playing for the foreseeable future. How about THJ? Any guesses? I would love to see Timmy go to a title contender. He almost got a title in Ann Arbor, so maybe he can get that title in the NBA?
Good Lord please Indiana. We need more scoring punch off the bench. Plus I want to have another excuse to hit the Fieldhouse.
I would love to see THJ in Indiana. They may have been a good shooter away from making it to the Finals. Seeing THJ develop on that team with Paul George would be awesome.
THJ is #9 on the best available. 13 picks left in the first round. Does THJ go?
I just hope the media doesn't attack Caldwell-Pope for not being Trey Burke, or hell, do it, and maybe it will light a fire under his ass.
Stern looks like he's getting real tired of being booed right about now. Even funnier
That afro is the clear winner of this draft.
...I'll cry. They're dead to me. Don't do that to Timmy.
nogueira's hair is the highlight of the night. Sideshow Bob'esq
with the 18th pick on the clock. Hopefully he can get in that first round. It might be nuts looking back on this title game team: Burke, THJ, McGary, and GRIII are all pretty close to being 1st rounders and who knows where (if) Stauskas and Levert might be picked up one day. Might be that our top 6 guys in the title game all end up being draft picks with a good chunk of them being 1st rounders. When did we become a team with all sorts of talent?
Looks like the pistons can continue to book Vanilla Ice for the halftime entertainment to draw in metro Detroit.
Just getting in. Am I too late to call Joe Dumars a dumbass?
Barry Larkin's son to the Hawks.
Why didn't he go to Michigan?
There's only one more draft pick in the Joe Dumars era.
Unless there is a trade I'm not aware of, 2 more picks. Picks 7 and 26 of the 2nd round.
Apparently he thinks their next pick will be so bad that Dumars gets fired before they can pick again
That's what I would have called before the emergence of Jimmy Butler and Nate Robinson proving himself a viable bench scorer, so I think he falls to the Clips.
I hope not. I don't want to watch him get bored wide open in the corner while Rose careens out of control into a "blocking foul".
Any different from last year?
"Not just a shooter" just got dropped.
Why did Shabazz get recognized during the 20th pick? Late flight into town?
Man, NBA, how do you not figure out Muhammad is in the building until now? Someone dropped the ball there.
Shabazz has got some mad razor burn / bumps. Awkwarddd
The Raptors selected Bargnani, and there were no clear-cut No. 1s in that draft. It was the year Brandon Roy, Lamarcus Aldridge and Rudy Gay came out. Lots of question marks and some good players found later (Rondo).
Hardaway is there for the Pacers, if they take my personal agenda into account, it's a lock.
I like your thinking. It's full-proof.
Good God Shanie Battier is truly awful. Why is he out there?
What is up with Stern and this crowd? Do they all hate each other?
Supposedly the Knicks are about to take Timmy here
Spike Lee makes everything fun. Awesome hat.
THJ to the Knicks.
Knicks fans freakin loved Timmy. Pretty awesome to see
Yes! The Knicks are going to be fun to watch. Congrats Tim!
Congrats to THjr on working his way into the 1st round.
At least THJ goes to a team I like cheering for. Now, bring back Patrick Ewing and they'll be a contender.
I like the Knicks now.
Good luck, Timmy!
Trey Burke: 3* -> Lottery Pick
THJ: 3* -> 1st rounder
Congrats to all of them. Amazing how far the program has come in just a few years. Can't wait for next season
LET'S HEAR IT FOR NEW YORK!!!! CONCRETE JUNGLE WHERE DREAMS ARE MADE OF!
Ugh, I can't stand the Knicks, but I'm happy for Tim. Two first rounders ain't bad.
Timmy's gonna be having a lot more fun than Trey...
New York is going to love Timmy's enthusiasm. He will be an excellent option coming off the bench, and could become a quality starter if he develops more consistency.
Jalen Rose ~
Is my favorite NBA commentator. Love Charles as well just b/c he's Charles. I've always loved Jalen so I am biased, but still, I love his comments tonight. Casual, comfortable, relaxed, but insightful but not full of himself. Same can be said for Bill Simmons as well. Well done Jalen. Now, have some children and send them to Michigan already.
IIRC, he has a daughter.
Good for Tim. If he can develop some more consistency, there's no telling what he can do.
We are learning why it is called the NATIONAL Basketball Association. Amirite? Ok I'll go to bed now.
The nuggets can be a very long team. Between Javale McGee 9'6.5 standing reach and Rudy Gobert 9'7 standing reach. That will be a very good shot blocking team.
Just checked out the summer league schedule and it appears that Utah isn't participating. Does that mean Trey is out?! That would suck. On the other hand, Timmy would get a shot at the opening game vs New Orleans. Thoughts? Do I just not get the Summer League?
Note: sorry about the format - on the iPhone.
They are playing in something called Orlando Pro Summer League.
Ok. Wonder if it will be on NBA TV?
At 2nd round. Tony Mitchell has star potential and it's a perfect place to pick him instead of at 1st round. To me, he is a Paul George clone. Would be a perfect bridge between Monroe/Drummond as a stretch 4. He'll play at SF and should start over Singler IMO
I know DeShaun Thomas is a bit of a tweener but I'm surprised no one's picked him - the guy can fill it up.
he only can score. He's definitely a tweener. He's way too small to play PF at 6'7" and not quick/athletic enough to play SF. He is a liability on defense and he doesn't contribute much other than putting the ball in the bucket.
Biggest reason why he excelled at OSU is he abuses PF with his shooting and uses his size to muscle out smaller players. He won't do it in the NBA.
He should be able to be a 2nd or 3rd PG on a team. I think he has that alpha-dog personality that will fit in well on the roster at the PG position. Always thought he was underrated in college. Hopefully he's good enough to grab a roster spot.
And we (Pistons) have no wing scoring? This is so bizarre. We (Pistons) now have logjams at PG and PF.
he is a freak athlete at 6'9" who can play both SF and PF.
So far the depth chart should look like this:
Knight can move to SG if Pistons both play Siva and Knight at the same court. Mitchell can slide down to PF to play alongside either Monroe or Drummond. Monroe can play C to spell Drummond.
but he just shoots too many jumpers. He is an exact replica of Paul George coming out of Fresno State. Read the scouting report and stat line, both are basically carbon copy of each other. There is a reason why Tony Mitchell was thought of as a lottery pick before last season.
who will provide wing scoring at SG.
Thomas is a tweener. Too small to play PF and not athletic enough to play SF. He can score but that's all he can do for you. No interest playing defense and is a bit of a ball hog.