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NBA Decline

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May 24th, 2014 at 11:13 PM
#1
Black Socks
Black Socks's picture
Joined: 11/30/2009
MGoPoints: 14365
NBA Decline

 

So tonight I watched my first NBA game on TV in about 5 years.  It's incredible how far this league has fallen.  There is very little effort given, the teams rarely move the ball well, and the skill level is down significantly from years ago.  Where are the skilled big men?  Why all the complaining to the refs?  Unreal.

It's telling that there is no thread on the NBA while there's a thread on Atlectico soccer, whatever that is.

What does the NBA need to do to become relevant again?  Can it be reveresed or will it continue on the post-Jordan silde?

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May 24th, 2014 at 11:15 PM
#2
ReegsShannon
Joined: 02/01/2014
MGoPoints: 2622
The NBA's TV ratings have

The NBA's TV ratings have been rising for years.

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May 25th, 2014 at 6:38 AM
(Reply to #2) #3
PeterKlima
Joined: 08/24/2008
MGoPoints: 4360
TV ratings

Have nothing to do with quality. You know that,

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May 25th, 2014 at 7:55 AM
(Reply to #2) #4
LSAClassOf2000
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Joined: 01/07/2011
MGoPoints: 81313
According To Nielsen...

I couldn't find many updated stats on the average ratings for the regular season, but the NBA Finals data that I found was interesting. 

According to the average ratings for the Finals, the zenith of NBA postseason viewing came with the end of the Bulls' run in the 1990s with the 1998 finals averaging an 18.7 on NBC. Only nine years later, we have the least watched Finals with the Spurs-Cavaliers getting averaging a mere 6.2, although that has much more to do with the markets involved in the actual series, I would think. In any case, with the rise of the Heat, the ratings have gone up to 10.7 as of last year, which is still not impressive but a slight improvement. 

From what I could find for the regular season, the typical viewership for a game on cable is higher than on the networks, but even TNT only tops out at a 6.0 for some game (3.0-4.0 seems more common) and some games on the networks struggle to hit 2.0 depending on the opponents. From the look of things, regular season viewership has declined a lot since the Jordan years but looks like it has flattened out some lately. 

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May 25th, 2014 at 11:04 AM
(Reply to #46) #5
SWPro
Joined: 06/08/2013
MGoPoints: 1475
One thing to consider during

One thing to consider during the bulls run was Jordan. Even when he was playing it was pretty clear that he was above elite. This was something that was realized very early. There was a mindset in the sports world that you needed to watch this guy cause otherwise you were going to miss something very special, once in a lifetime maybe.

 

It also helped that as that mindset start forming the bulls in general started dominating the league. It also helped that they were in a pretty sizable market (as you mentioned).

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May 25th, 2014 at 8:00 AM
(Reply to #2) #6
MichiganTeacher
Joined: 10/06/2011
MGoPoints: 7578
??
Regular season NBA ratings on network TV since 1996[2]
Net. Year Rating
NBC 1996 5.0
NBC 1997 4.7
NBC 1998 4.6
NBC 1999 4.3
NBC 2000 3.3
NBC 2001 3.0
NBC 2002 N/A
ABC 2003 2.6
ABC 2004 2.4
ABC 2005 2.2
ABC 2006 2.2
ABC 2007 2.0

Sorry for any formatting issues.

I'm pasting in the finals ratings year by year from 1988 - 2013. There is significant and persistent decline.

I'm also pasting in the regular season ratings from 1996 - 2007. Ratings were more than cut in half. ABC averaged a 2.9 in 2013, which was a decline from the previous year. There was a slight bump from 2007-2012.

CBS 1988 Los Angeles Lakers 4, Detroit Pistons 3 15.4
CBS 1989 Detroit Pistons 4, Los Angeles Lakers 0 15.1
CBS 1990 Detroit Pistons 4, Portland Trail Blazers 1 12.3
NBC 1991 Chicago Bulls 4, Los Angeles Lakers 1 15.8
NBC 1992 Chicago Bulls 4, Portland Trail Blazers 2 14.2
NBC 1993 Chicago Bulls 4, Phoenix Suns 2 17.9
NBC 1994 Houston Rockets 4, New York Knicks 3 12.4
NBC 1995 Houston Rockets 4, Orlando Magic 0 13.9
NBC 1996 Chicago Bulls 4, Seattle Supersonics 2 16.7
NBC 1997 Chicago Bulls 4, Utah Jazz 2 16.8
NBC 1998 Chicago Bulls 4, Utah Jazz 2 18.7
NBC 1999 San Antonio Spurs 4, New York Knicks 1 11.3
NBC 2000 Los Angeles Lakers 4, Indiana Pacers 2 11.6
NBC 2001 Los Angeles Lakers 4, Philadelphia 76ers 1 12.1
NBC 2002 Los Angeles Lakers 4, New Jersey Nets 0 10.2
ABC 2003 San Antonio Spurs 4, New Jersey Nets 2 6.5
ABC 2004 Detroit Pistons 4, Los Angeles Lakers 1 11.5
ABC 2005 San Antonio Spurs 4, Detroit Pistons 3 8.2
ABC 2006 Miami Heat 4, Dallas Mavericks 2 8.5
ABC 2007 San Antonio Spurs 4, Cleveland Cavaliers 0 6.2
ABC 2008 Boston Celtics 4, Los Angeles Lakers 2 9.3
ABC 2009 Los Angeles Lakers 4, Orlando Magic 1 8.4
ABC 2010 Los Angeles Lakers 4, Boston Celtics 3 10.6
ABC 2011 Dallas Mavericks 4, Miami Heat 2 10.2
ABC 2012 Miami Heat 4, Oklahoma City Thunder 1 10.1
ABC 2013 Miami Heat 4, San Antonio Spurs 3 10.4

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

nbatv13

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May 25th, 2014 at 2:38 PM
(Reply to #47) #7
Maizenblueball
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Joined: 12/08/2011
MGoPoints: 12493
Spurs!!

I blame the decline on the San Antonio Spurs being good!  

Just kidding...sort of.  There are plenty of other reasons for the NBA decline too.

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May 25th, 2014 at 4:14 PM
(Reply to #47) #8
TheLastHarbaugh
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Joined: 08/06/2008
MGoPoints: 10183
If you factor in

If you factor in international ratings and attention the NBA's stock has never been higher. They smash Football, Baseball, and Hockey around the globe in terms of popularity. IIRC, basketball is now the second most popular sport in the world behind only soccer. The NBA is the biggest part of that.

The playoffs this year have been crshing it in the ratings for ESPN and TNT.

The NBA will probably never be more popular in the US than it was during the Jordan era, but that's because MJ is probably the biggest sports superstar of all time.

You want to talk about a sports league MGoBlog loves that America refuses to watch even more than the NBA, it's the MLB. The ratings for the World Series are abyssmal, and have been steadily declining while the NBA's popularity has increased of late.

Here is a chart showing the NBA Finals ratings next to the World Series ratings since 1984.

The NBA is winning.

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May 25th, 2014 at 8:11 PM
(Reply to #107) #9
MichiganTeacher
Joined: 10/06/2011
MGoPoints: 7578
Sure, pick on MLB

How about a graph showing the NBA finals rating vs the NFL championship game? Probably need a logarithmic scale to get them on the same chart. :)

Also: MJ over Babe Ruth and Pele? Gonna have to check back in a century on that and see how he's doing. I don't think he'll surpass Ruth. I suppose he has a chance, though.

The real mitigating factor for the dismal NBA ratings is that ratings, viewership, and fractional shares are down across the board in (almost) everything for TV. People just have other stuff to do. They aren't even watching TV on TV anymore. And when they do, there are way, way more choices, so that splinters the audience. So the NBA could cling to that rationale. But, on the other hand, that NFL championship game sure has hung in there. And soccer ratings are soaring, even on a historical scale.

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May 26th, 2014 at 1:47 PM
(Reply to #117) #10
TheLastHarbaugh
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Joined: 08/06/2008
MGoPoints: 10183
No sport in the US beats

No sport in the US beats the NFL and that wasn't my argument.

People on MGoBlog constant prattle on about how the NBA is dying, dead, and nobody watches it. Yet MGoBlog pretty clearly loves them some MLB, but the MLB has slipped down to be just about even with the NBA (while the NBA has been trending up).

So my point is it's just good old fashioned blind hatred for the NBA that isn't rooted in any sort of logic. If the proof that the NBA is horrible is in the ratings, then the MLB must be just as horrible, with just as terrible a quality of play, and hockey must be a bunch of four year old just learning how to skate, because the NBA has thoroughly crushed them in the ratings this post-season.

People will bag on the NBA but then uphold the virtues of college basketball, which does in fact have a pretty embarrassing level of play. I love basketball. It's my favorite sport, but you couldn't pay me to watch some random college basketball game that didn't involve Michigan, the NCAA Tournament, or a potential NBA lottery pick.

I'm a diehard NBA fan. Give me a Spurs-Heat game over any NFL game. The quality of play in the NBA is vastly underrated and usually the people who make such statements are like OP.

"So I haven't watched the NBA in 5 years because I don't like it, but yesterday I decided to watch one game and I didn't like it (surprise). Now let me tell you everything that's wrong with the NBA, why the players suck and everything is terrible."

It's ridiculous.  

Also, "I don't watch the NBA because they don't play defense anymore." Even if that were true, thanks for the most hypocritical sports statement ever, NFL fan. I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of Matthew Stafford and every other Bob, Dick, and Harry throwing for 4000 or 5000 yards, shattering NFL yardage records left and right.

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May 24th, 2014 at 11:16 PM
#11
johnthesavage
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Joined: 03/30/2013
MGoPoints: 2057
Simply, you're wrong. Besides

Simply, you're wrong. Besides that, you just admitted you've watched one NBA game in five years, which of course makes you utterly unqualified to judge the quality of the action in the league in general, and ESPECIALLY to judge the change in this quality over time. I mean, seriously, get out of here.

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May 24th, 2014 at 11:54 PM
(Reply to #3) #12
panthera leo fututio
panthera leo fututio's picture
Joined: 09/15/2008
MGoPoints: 2013
This comment describes 95+%

This comment describes 95+% of anti-NBA gripes. "I never watch the game, but let me tell you how much it's declined. THUGS TRAVELING LAZY THUG ISOLATION TATTOES. Also, let me tell you about how defense is so much better in college basketball, which explains Adam Morrison's career shooting percentages."

Tonight we got to see impressive 2nd half performances by arguably the best overall player and arguably the best shooter to ever play, both playing within (pretty fucking intricate) team offensive and defensive concepts, for the right to face a GREG FUCKING POPOVICH team in the finals. And yet the game has gone to shit.

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May 25th, 2014 at 1:09 AM
(Reply to #10) #13
AlwaysBlue
Joined: 11/23/2008
MGoPoints: 7854
Nobody who has

watched the playoffs this season can defend the overall quality of play.

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May 25th, 2014 at 1:32 AM
(Reply to #25) #14
panthera leo fututio
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Joined: 09/15/2008
MGoPoints: 2013
There have definitely been some rough spots --

There have definitely been some rough spots -- I've been disappointed with the Thunder all postseason, most of the East is still a relative tire fire, etc. But we're still likely to see two legitimately great teams in the finals in the Heat and Spurs. And what's the comparison group? Whatever you feel about the excitement and loyalties at play in college, the level of play in (even a relatively down) NBA playoffs is massively higher. And I'd also argue that overall quality of play in today's game is at the very least comparable to the Golden Era of the mid-/late-80s.

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May 25th, 2014 at 1:50 PM
(Reply to #95) #15
panthera leo fututio
panthera leo fututio's picture
Joined: 09/15/2008
MGoPoints: 2013
Let me assure you

If traveling were called differently 20 years ago, you'd still be on this message board griping about the decline of the NBA, with reference to your past non-career. Also, did you ever watch Patrick Ewing play?

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May 25th, 2014 at 3:02 PM
(Reply to #99) #16
panthera leo fututio
panthera leo fututio's picture
Joined: 09/15/2008
MGoPoints: 2013
Sorry for crazy-man

Sorry for crazy-man self-reply; was responding to someone via the app whose comments have been caved.

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May 25th, 2014 at 6:37 AM
(Reply to #3) #17
PeterKlima
Joined: 08/24/2008
MGoPoints: 4360
I think he's right.

There is nothing "simply wrong" about his opinion. Other people share it and it's legit to have an opinion.

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May 25th, 2014 at 12:05 PM
(Reply to #41) #18
Gobgoblue
Joined: 07/07/2012
MGoPoints: 14737
Well

there are opinions, and then there are opinions based on fact.  

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May 25th, 2014 at 4:09 PM
(Reply to #3) #19
wolverine1987
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Joined: 07/07/2008
MGoPoints: 11613
Then why does Charles Barkley say the same thing?

He has been quoted several times as saying the quality of the NBA game has never been lower. And he watches every game of the playoffs and many more.

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May 25th, 2014 at 4:16 PM
(Reply to #106) #20
TheLastHarbaugh
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Joined: 08/06/2008
MGoPoints: 10183
Can you give me specific

Can you give me specific quotes from Charles?

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May 25th, 2014 at 7:11 PM
(Reply to #108) #21
wolverine1987
wolverine1987's picture
Joined: 07/07/2008
MGoPoints: 11613
Here's one:

http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22748484/34673882

 

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May 25th, 2014 at 8:45 PM
(Reply to #112) #22
DaytonBlue
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Joined: 12/08/2009
MGoPoints: 1703
Let me summarize....

Me Me Me Me Me ....  Charles....  Me Me.  An old timer that wants to remain relevant.

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May 26th, 2014 at 2:24 PM
(Reply to #112) #23
TheLastHarbaugh
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Joined: 08/06/2008
MGoPoints: 10183
That was because of the

That was because of the lockout season as the article suggests. The article also talks about how ratings and internet traffic are up.

"There are only about 10 teams worth watching."

LOL, that's true of every single professional sport, Chuck.

Also, Chuck has been calling this one of the best playoffs he's ever seen, especially the first round.

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May 26th, 2014 at 4:55 PM
(Reply to #130) #24
wolverine1987
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Joined: 07/07/2008
MGoPoints: 11613
Yes I've seen that, and others have said so as well this playoff

I heard Barkley make a similar argument to my link this year during the regular season as well. And he is not alone in that. I watch the NBA regular season a few times a year and a lot of the playoffs, which are excellent, but you can say that about every sport as well. IMO the regular seaon is often brutal in the NBA in a way thet you can't say about the NFL or really the other major sports either.Btu that's just my opinion.

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May 26th, 2014 at 5:10 PM
(Reply to #134) #25
TheLastHarbaugh
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Joined: 08/06/2008
MGoPoints: 10183
I watch Inside all of the

I watch Inside all of the time. Barkley this year has ragged on the Eastern Conference as being as bad as it has ever been, while the West has been as deep as it has ever been. That's true to an extent but context matters.

The Bulls were most people's favorites to win the title this year from what I remember prior to the season (either them or Miami), but they lost Derrick Rose to injury. What can you do? They proabably would have had the best record in the East with a healthy DRose.

The Knicks won over 50 games last year but completely fell apart due to injuries to pretty much everyone but Carmelo.

Everyone expected the Brooklyn Nets to be a title contender, but they lost their best player (Brook Lopez) to injury, and Deron Williams was either out or playing hurt most of the year. KG was also out or banged up most of the year. They just never really got it going.

So that's 3 of the 5 title contenders in the East that got blown up due to injury. There is probably more talent in the NBA than there has been since the early 90s. 

People forget as good as teams were back then, they were just as bad. Go back to the end of Jordan's first 3peat. The Dallas Mavericks won 11 games that year and lost 71. That's 8 games worse than the horrifically bad 76ers and 4 games worse than the Bucks. There were quite a few 65 to 70 loss teams in the 80s as well.

There have always been haves and have nots. If you go back to the years the Pistons won titles with Zeke, there were several teams who failed to win 20 games.

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May 24th, 2014 at 11:21 PM
#26
sadeto
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Joined: 01/17/2014
MGoPoints: 10034
Why did you watch an NBA

Why did you watch an NBA game? Was there a particular reason? I see no reason to, and haven't in 15 years, and I love basketball. 

TV ratings are meaningless, just look at the other crap people watch. 

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May 24th, 2014 at 11:38 PM
(Reply to #6) #27
Black Socks
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Joined: 11/30/2009
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I saw the Pistons 30 for 30

I saw the Pistons 30 for 30 and had a hankering for basketball.  But that quality of basketball is long gone.

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May 25th, 2014 at 12:28 AM
(Reply to #7) #28
drewz05
Joined: 06/01/2011
MGoPoints: 983
Wait what?

Your basis for skillful NBA basketball was the Bad Boy Pistons and you think the Heat and Pacers are playing lower quality basketball than that team?

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May 25th, 2014 at 9:44 PM
(Reply to #21) #29
JamieH
Joined: 09/05/2009
MGoPoints: 12966
The 1989 Pistons

The 89 Pistons would beat the Heat about 110-85 and leave their team so battered that they probably wouldn't even want to play game 2.  That is assuming they got to play under 1989 rules. 

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May 25th, 2014 at 1:02 AM
(Reply to #7) #30
RDubs
RDubs's picture
Joined: 09/09/2008
MGoPoints: 1121
"Things just aren't the way

"Things just aren't the way they used to be, but then again they never were"
-Will Rogers (I think)

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May 25th, 2014 at 2:12 AM
(Reply to #7) #31
Black Socks
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Joined: 11/30/2009
MGoPoints: 14365
That was a great 30 for 30.

That was a great 30 for 30.  Wow, think about the depth on those Pistons' teams:

 

Isiah

Joe

Dantley

Aguirre

Worm

Laimbeer

Mahorn

Buddah

Microwave

Salley

plus everyone's favorite - Fennis Dembo

You just don't see that kind of talent on one team anymore.  The '89 team was one of the best ever.  Who else vanquished Larry, Michael and Magic rather easily in one playoffs? Incredible.  Props to Jack McCloskey, WW2 vet.

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May 25th, 2014 at 3:53 AM
(Reply to #30) #32
TheLastHarbaugh
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Joined: 08/06/2008
MGoPoints: 10183
No no no. You've got it all

No no no. You've got it all wrong, you see. The 80s were filled with hogwash and haberdashery as far basketball is concerned.It was all showtime this, 3 point line that. T'were all a bunch of beef-witted showboating if ya ask me.

In my day the players were so great, everybody made an All-Basketball Association of America team because there were only 3 teams and everybody was an All-American, let me tell you. But that was the way it were and we liked it.

There was Hootin Pete Williams who could throw a ball clear over yonder mountains and through a hoop, and he woulda done it too if James A. Naismith hadntna changed the rules all hugger-mugger like in aught five to discourage such displays of athletic brilliance.

Old James and me use-ta get into it, that we did, bout who was better, his ol' boy Flappity Jack Boonstrah or Hootin' Pete.

James use-ta say Flappity Jack could run from here clear across to there afore you could say tiddly-winks. I says to him, "Why Jimmer Jam that's just clear out un-possible."

We'd sit out there and each peaches fresh off the tree jibber jabbing bout James' ol' duck on a rock. Now that was a game...

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May 25th, 2014 at 10:01 AM
(Reply to #37) #33
rob f
rob f's picture
Joined: 11/11/2010
MGoPoints: 76718
^^^ True story.

I know because I'm old.  And because I used hitch up the wagon to the plow horses and ride on into the telegraph station in town to read the play by play as quick as old one-eyed Sam could fetch it for me.  Those were the days, you bunch of wet-behind-the-ears-whippersnappers... 

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May 25th, 2014 at 3:31 AM
(Reply to #7) #34
TheLastHarbaugh
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Joined: 08/06/2008
MGoPoints: 10183
Did ye have ye a hankerin'

Did ye have ye a hankerin' fer some shooty hoops?

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May 24th, 2014 at 11:51 PM
(Reply to #6) #35
Oscar
Joined: 05/06/2011
MGoPoints: 4492
He/She watched the game

He/She watched the game because their Lebron app told them to.

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May 28th, 2014 at 1:20 PM
(Reply to #60) #36
saveferris
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Joined: 07/02/2009
MGoPoints: 15690
Sigh

Sigh.  I'm old enough to remember when channels like TLC were actually called "The Learning Channel" and had programming dedicated to, you know, learning; rather than programming dedicated to exploiting toothless hillbillies or wedding fiascos or whatever....

Remember when the History Channel showed programming about history and not mumbling assholes hunting alligators?

Now get off my lawn!

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May 24th, 2014 at 11:40 PM
#37
HartAttack20
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Joined: 06/08/2009
MGoPoints: 1964
Ehhh

I feel the same about the nba as all other pro sports. If the teams I like aren't particularly good, then I don't see much of a reason to watch. I just dont have much emotional connection with the pro teams. The passion just isn't there in professional athletics. The skill level is definitely there, it just isn't as much fun to watch as college stuff. The skill level is almost a detriment, for me at least, because there isn't much parity. I'll watch the hell out of Michigan football even if they suck, but there's just something lacking in the pros.

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May 25th, 2014 at 2:02 AM
(Reply to #8) #38
Mike Kenn
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Joined: 12/31/2013
MGoPoints: 228
there isnt enough parity? in

there isnt enough parity? in pro sports? 

 

the sec has something to say about that

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May 24th, 2014 at 11:47 PM
#39
nowicki2005
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Joined: 06/28/2011
MGoPoints: 811
lack of effort?

I hate when people say this. maybe during the regular season because its such a grind. most college players wear down but the NBA guys go 82 games and some the playoffs.

People always think they aren't that skilled. Why is it that a lot of your best college players will never get a sniff in the NBA?

There is ball movement. You can't play a true zone and pretty much have to play man. You take the best offensive guys in the world and you're supposed to stop them? Look at the Heat, you have Lebron. You spread the floor and he has room to do whatever he wants because you can't double off ray or Battier because they will hit a 3, even bosh. if it gets reversed to wade you have a rotating defense to one of the best drivers in the game. its not easy playing against NBA shooters and athletes

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May 25th, 2014 at 2:08 AM
(Reply to #9) #40
Gobgoblue
Joined: 07/07/2012
MGoPoints: 14737
Thank you

Nostalgia is always magnified.

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May 24th, 2014 at 11:49 PM
#41
MGOTyrone
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Joined: 11/14/2011
MGoPoints: 1546
I agree with most of your

I agree with most of your post except the complaining to the refs. Players have been doing that for decades. Bill Laimbeer would complain to the refs after he would be called for damn near decapitating someone.

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May 25th, 2014 at 2:09 AM
(Reply to #11) #42
Gobgoblue
Joined: 07/07/2012
MGoPoints: 14737
Jalen Rose Said

there are two types of flops-- physical and verbal. he said verbal is more effective. I doubt he garnered that from recent play.

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May 24th, 2014 at 11:49 PM
#43
ThadMattasagoblin
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Joined: 08/24/2011
MGoPoints: 36033
Either the offenses are just

Either the offenses are just that good or the defenses don't give a shit because the offenses score every time down the court.

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May 25th, 2014 at 12:02 AM
(Reply to #12) #44
name redacted
Joined: 07/13/2009
MGoPoints: 1473
Rule changes in the last

Rule changes in the last decade have made it increasingly difficult to play any type of meaningful defense.

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May 25th, 2014 at 8:05 AM
(Reply to #17) #45
BiSB
BiSB's picture
Joined: 08/15/2009
MGoPoints: 44839
Nah

Compare the offensive numbers over time. The NBA is actually in an offensive down period, with this year being a bit of a reversion toward the previous numbers.

 

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_stats.html

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May 25th, 2014 at 12:24 AM
(Reply to #12) #46
ReegsShannon
Joined: 02/01/2014
MGoPoints: 2622
The median college basketball

The median college basketball Offensive Rating is 105.2.

The median NBA Offensive Rating is 103.3

 

Wanna try again?

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May 25th, 2014 at 2:09 AM
(Reply to #14) #47
Gobgoblue
Joined: 07/07/2012
MGoPoints: 14737
Ha!!!!!!

zinger!

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May 25th, 2014 at 8:43 AM
(Reply to #14) #48
BallZDeeP210
Joined: 07/14/2009
MGoPoints: 236
Replace Hockey

Replace Hockey with baseball and I agree! However, I would never begrudge someone for liking what they like. Who am I to tell someone they should only like Football and that the sports they like suck? To each their own and if being a baseball/softball fan makes you happy then I'm happy for you. I never understand people posting in the softball threads just to say the sport sucks. Just move on and let them enjoy it.

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May 24th, 2014 at 11:57 PM
#49
Lancer
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Joined: 08/18/2010
MGoPoints: 2733
"post-jordan slide" what does

"post-jordan slide" what does that even mean. The extent to which jordan is idolized is crazy. 

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May 25th, 2014 at 12:06 AM
(Reply to #15) #50
nowayman
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Joined: 06/14/2012
MGoPoints: 1593
Right?

Everyone knows the best NBA years were the late 80s, not the late 90s.  

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May 27th, 2014 at 11:03 AM
(Reply to #15) #51
saveferris
saveferris's picture
Joined: 07/02/2009
MGoPoints: 15690
This

The Jordan myth is so over-blown.  The competitive parity is vastly better in the NBA today than it was in the 90's.  This notion that the Bulls were this unbeatable juggernaut because they were the best collection of basketball talent ever assembled is complete and utter nonsense.

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May 27th, 2014 at 12:03 PM
(Reply to #138) #52
nowayman
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Joined: 06/14/2012
MGoPoints: 1593
That's what happens when a team

wins 60% of the championships in a decade.  During the 90s, the bulls were champions six of the seven seasons that Jordan was actually playing with them.  

Jordan took a two year "break" in 94 and 95 and was "retired" by 99.  

The bulls probably would have won in 90 if they had gotten past Detroit.  Regardless, of the four years (90, 94, 95, and 99) that the Bulls didn't win it all Jordan wasn't on the team for three of them.  

All that being said, no team is unbeatable.  The Jordan mythos, however, is pretty deserved.  I, personally, would put money on the Bulls against any team from any time period.

The guy was good enough that he could and would clown people during playoff games (yeah, Jordan isn't a great guy character wise).   

I'll get back to you when we perfect cloning and can make these retro match ups happen.  I'm pretty sure we'll still be bitching about or exulting in Michigan sports in 2077.  

 

(Okay, I spent waaaay too much time writing all that.  Back to work).

 

Edit: oh and I see way more "Jordan carried a team of invalids" claims than I do "the Bulls were a collection of the best players ever" claims.  Jordan played on some really good teams.   

    

 

 

 

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May 24th, 2014 at 11:58 PM
#53
ThadMattasagoblin
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Joined: 08/24/2011
MGoPoints: 36033
Also the fans seem way better

Also the fans seem way better in college than professional sports. The noise is a lot more in college football stadiums and college basketball arenas. Being a national champion means more when it is out of hundreds of teams than just 30. Teams like the Miami Heat just buy their championships.

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May 25th, 2014 at 8:33 AM
(Reply to #16) #54
1989 UM GRAD
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Joined: 03/08/2012
MGoPoints: 1512061
"Buy their championships"

Like that doesn't happen in college sports too? Not your best argument bro.

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May 25th, 2014 at 9:53 AM
(Reply to #16) #55
Lucky Socks
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Joined: 01/18/2012
MGoPoints: 2653
Depends

Miami, sure.  People there have other priorities.  But cities like OKC, Portland, and San Antonio have awesome fans.  Even cities with other stuff going on like Boston and Indy have damn good fans.  Beyond that, it's just like college.  Fans will show up to watch a winner.  You can't possible argue that Indiana or Purdue football has an awesome atmosphere right now.  

 

 

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May 25th, 2014 at 12:13 AM
#56
ThadMattasagoblin
ThadMattasagoblin's picture
Joined: 08/24/2011
MGoPoints: 36033
and teams can purposefully

and teams can purposefully tank to get the # 1 pick in both the NFL/NBA. You have to stay good in college or your recruiting will take a big hit.

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May 25th, 2014 at 4:17 AM
(Reply to #19) #57
TaiStreetsMyHero
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Joined: 08/08/2012
MGoPoints: 27731
The team with best odds of getting

#1 pick in nba lottery has only gotten the first pick like 3 times.

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May 25th, 2014 at 6:39 AM
(Reply to #39) #58
nowicki2005
nowicki2005's picture
Joined: 06/28/2011
MGoPoints: 811
ummm

kind of a dumb comment seeing as how they only have a 25% of getting the first pick and over the course of a small sample size, they aren't far off with getting that.

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May 25th, 2014 at 10:17 AM
(Reply to #43) #59
TaiStreetsMyHero
TaiStreetsMyHero's picture
Joined: 08/08/2012
MGoPoints: 27731
My point is you can't tank and

Guarantee you get the top pick. You can talk and get a 25% chance of getting the top pick. His comment insinuates that you tank and have a 100% chance of getting the top pick.

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May 25th, 2014 at 12:41 AM
#60
samdrussBLUE
samdrussBLUE's picture
Joined: 01/21/2012
MGoPoints: 15360
I am drunk and like NCAA more

I am drunk and like NCAA more than NBA. TE ll me what do do

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May 25th, 2014 at 1:55 AM
(Reply to #22) #61
YakAttack
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Joined: 01/20/2009
MGoPoints: 26845
Stay Drunk

and Carry On!

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May 25th, 2014 at 12:44 AM
#62
DealerCamel
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Joined: 07/25/2012
MGoPoints: 7194
A decline, you say?

Do tell me again how this generation is useless and there's no hope for the human race.

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May 25th, 2014 at 2:05 AM
#63
Gobgoblue
Joined: 07/07/2012
MGoPoints: 14737
Haha what?

the NBA talent is amazing. as it always has been.

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May 25th, 2014 at 2:50 AM
#64
CLord
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Joined: 09/11/2011
MGoPoints: 7015
You're just old.  Start a

You're just old.  Start a thread on how kids don't show respect any more, and how technology is ruining real interaction or how you used to lug 50 pounds of ice up 5 or 6 flights of stairs every day.

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May 25th, 2014 at 4:14 AM
(Reply to #34) #65
Mr. Pain
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Joined: 03/16/2014
MGoPoints: 9
That's actually reality

He may or may not be old but all everything you said is actually true.

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May 25th, 2014 at 3:32 AM
#66
TheLastHarbaugh
TheLastHarbaugh's picture
Joined: 08/06/2008
MGoPoints: 10183
Did you just step out of a

Did you just step out of a time machine from the year 2000? Because that's the only way your post even remotely makes sense.

 

Can it be reveresed or will it continue on the post-Jordan silde?

Well golly-gee, I'm just sittin' here flim-flam flabbergasted as to how in tarnation the Minneapolis Lakers will do without that young Mikan whippersnapper. Why I remember when he was just a pup, battling it out in the National Basketball League with the Chicago American Gears before movin' on to the Lakers after the great PBLA collapse of '48. Why did the BBA and the National Basketball League have to go on and merge, making that there NBA? It just ain't right, this whole merging skiddly-doo business. I fear change.

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May 25th, 2014 at 10:14 AM
(Reply to #35) #67
rob f
rob f's picture
Joined: 11/11/2010
MGoPoints: 76718
I can see

how flabbergasted you are.  To be sitting at an NFL game but having one's panties in a wad over the new-fangled NBA and George Mikan and such, it must have been extremely traumatic.

Then again, it is only a Jacksonville Jags game...

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May 25th, 2014 at 11:32 AM
(Reply to #35) #68
SWPro
Joined: 06/08/2013
MGoPoints: 1475
That's an amazing GIF. I have

That's an amazing GIF. I have felt like this watching the Lions a million times.

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May 25th, 2014 at 4:37 AM
#69
Captain
Captain's picture
Joined: 06/12/2009
MGoPoints: 12438
My opinion? Fewer games would

My opinion? Fewer games would go a long, long way. Yet make less money.

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May 25th, 2014 at 9:42 AM
(Reply to #44) #70
slaunius
Joined: 07/08/2008
MGoPoints: 668
1/2 Empty

The "half empty" thing isn't unique to the NBA though.



When I was a student, Crisler was usually more than half empty unless we were playing a Big Ten rival. Now we're good and it's always pretty full, but the same would be true of the Pistons, even with their terrible stadium location.

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May 25th, 2014 at 9:38 PM
(Reply to #69) #71
Michigan4Life
Joined: 07/29/2010
MGoPoints: 16371
I agree

When I was the student when Amaker was the coach plus the beginning of Beilein's early years at Michigan, you'd be lucky to see a 3/4 crowd unless it's against MSU, Duke, etc which it's a sellout. No one gives a shit about Michigan basketball until they became a NCAA tourney regular.

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May 27th, 2014 at 11:11 AM
(Reply to #69) #72
saveferris
saveferris's picture
Joined: 07/02/2009
MGoPoints: 15690
Not Even Unique to Basketball

I remember in the late 80's and early 90's you could walk up to the ticket window at Yost and buy seats near center ice for $4 for pretty much any game aside from Michigan State, and the State game usually sold out because all the Sparty fans would travel down from EL and buy out the place.

Having you team be good is the best insurance against you stadium not being full on a given home game.

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May 25th, 2014 at 7:16 AM
#73
madmaxweb
Joined: 02/21/2012
MGoPoints: 1845
As I'm sure some have already

As I'm sure some have already said this, but the NBA is actually near the highest it's ever been in popularity if not the highest. I'm with you tho, I hate how the NBA has become. It's almost unbearable to watch. NBA is the only sport I could care less about the Finals. I don't even watch hockey but I'll watch the playoffs if I see a game on. Not the NBA tho.

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May 25th, 2014 at 9:12 AM
(Reply to #45) #74
Schembo
Schembo's picture
Joined: 01/06/2011
MGoPoints: 5394
There's more access to games

There's more access to games with cable and internet which is probably the biggest factor in the rise in popularity, if in fact there actually is one. I just don't know many people in their late 20's or 30's that give a shit about the league anymore. I guess it depends where you live.

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May 25th, 2014 at 11:06 AM
(Reply to #48) #75
Magnum P.I.
Magnum P.I.'s picture
Joined: 07/16/2009
MGoPoints: 11284
Chauncey, Rip, Tay, Sheed,

Chauncey, Rip, Tay, Sheed, and Ben's effort in 2004 or in 2008? Because those are different by like a bajillion.

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May 25th, 2014 at 12:05 PM
(Reply to #87) #76
Gobgoblue
Joined: 07/07/2012
MGoPoints: 14737
Eh

Watch the Heat when they need to play defense.  They are pretty damn good.   Spurs and Bulls are better, but the Heat and Pacers can play D that is just as good as our Pistons.  

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May 25th, 2014 at 8:38 AM
(Reply to #51) #77
Galapula
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Joined: 12/04/2009
MGoPoints: 2752
This post > sobriety.

This post > sobriety.

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May 25th, 2014 at 11:38 AM
(Reply to #51) #78
SWPro
Joined: 06/08/2013
MGoPoints: 1475
More so the limits on player

More so the limits on player spending. The Wings 02 and 08 cup teams were better than the 97 or 98 teams. But there weren't significantly more teams in 2013 than 2008.

 

Also the Chicago Blackhawks say hi.

 

The issue isn't even about going out and buying players its about keeping the ones you draft and develop. After the 2010 cup Chicago had to cut half the team loose. It wasn't because there was an expansion draft, it was because they all wanted more money and Chicago couldn't afford to pay them. They made the right decisions with who to keep (Kane, Sharp, Hossa, Toews, Seabrook and Keith) and who to let go (Anti Neimi, Dustin Byfuglien Brian Campbell, etc).

 

Agree on CEO greed though.

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May 25th, 2014 at 2:42 PM
(Reply to #51) #79
gord
gord's picture
Joined: 11/02/2013
MGoPoints: 8104
So you think 16/23 teams

So you think 16/23 teams making the playoffs in 1985 and only 2 teams having a chance was a good thing?  Sounds pretty boring to me unless you were a Celtics or Lakers fan.

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May 25th, 2014 at 8:20 AM
#80
Otm_Shank
Otm_Shank's picture
Joined: 02/18/2012
MGoPoints: 748
NBA

Of all the professional sports, NBA is the most predictable in terms of who will win.  Lebron is obviously an amazing athlete and a once a generation talent, but the NBA is unwatchable for me because of the lack of suspense.

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May 25th, 2014 at 8:28 AM
#81
goblueritzy92
goblueritzy92's picture
Joined: 01/26/2009
MGoPoints: 3524
No skilled big men? Tim

No skilled big men? Tim Duncan, Dirk Nowitzki, Dwight Howard, Pau Gasol, Anthony Davis, and more. What are you talking about?

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May 25th, 2014 at 8:47 AM
(Reply to #55) #82
goblueritzy92
goblueritzy92's picture
Joined: 01/26/2009
MGoPoints: 3524
A little more hyperbole and

A little more hyperbole and your post might make sense

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May 25th, 2014 at 1:18 PM
(Reply to #53) #83
pescadero
pescadero's picture
Joined: 03/28/2013
MGoPoints: 5991
I'll give you Duncan and

I'll give you Duncan and maybe Gasol.

 

Anthony Davis and Dwight Howard are just physical freaks. Nowitzki plays a "small man" game.

 

How many skilled big men are there playing old school "big man", back to the basket, basketball?

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May 25th, 2014 at 3:59 PM
(Reply to #97) #84
TheLastHarbaugh
TheLastHarbaugh's picture
Joined: 08/06/2008
MGoPoints: 10183
Al Jefferson, Zach Randolph,

Al Jefferson, Zach Randolph, David West, LaMarcus Aldridge, Pau Gasol, Al Horford, Carlos Boozer, Kevin Love, Nene Hilario, Chris Bosh, Marc Gasol, Marcin Gortat, Brook Lopez, DeMarcus Cousins, Blake Griffin, Greg Monroe, Amare Stoudamire, ...There are actually a lot of guys with killer post up games in the NBA.

The reason that the game has gone away from plodding 7 footers who just stood under the basket and got rebounds is because of rules changes that favor a more open game, and defensive rules changes that favor guard play while hurting traditional low post bigs. There are more elite point guards in the NBA than at any other point in history, and that's probably not an accident.

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May 26th, 2014 at 11:34 AM
(Reply to #105) #85
pescadero
pescadero's picture
Joined: 03/28/2013
MGoPoints: 5991
Al Jefferson, Zach Randolph -

Al Jefferson, Zach Randolph - have good post up games. The rest of that list being cited shows just how poor a showing there is when it comes to "killer post up games"

Hakeem had a "killer post up game"

Lamarcus Aldridge (even though he's one of my favorite players in the league) - has less of a quality post up game than many guards had back in the day.

I agree that rules changes are a big part of WHY there is almost no one with a quality post up game, but it doesn't change the fact that almost no one has one.

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May 26th, 2014 at 1:26 PM
(Reply to #129) #86
TheLastHarbaugh
TheLastHarbaugh's picture
Joined: 08/06/2008
MGoPoints: 10183
That is simply untrue. All of

That is simply untrue. All of those guys I've mentioned have good to great post up games. The fact that you didn't know that tells me you probably don't watch many NBA games.

You are lionizing the past far too much.

Hakeem had maybe the greatest post up game in history. Holding him up as being indicative of the level of post play in the late 80s to early 90s is totally ridiculous.

There were guys like Hakeem, David Robinson, and Patrick Ewing, who could score down low. There were a lot of running bigs/pick and roll who were more Blake Griffin or LaMarcus Aldridge types, like Charles Barkley, Karl Malone, and Shawn Kemp.

Then there were guys who just played defense and got rebounds like Alonzo Mourning or Charles Oakley.

The quality of post play was better, yes, but it wasn't orders of magnitude better. Players today are generally far more skilled than they were in the past, and efficiency metrics back that up.

That's all aside from the fact that people don't even really take the time to analyze why teams have moved away from having a ball stopping low post big. Maybe that's just not the best way to play basketball. If you have an Olajuwon or a David Robinson, then sure, but how many of those guys have their been in the entire history of the NBA? A handful? 

You also have to construct your entire team around the way that they play in a way you don't around a dominant guard or forward, and big guys tend to have the shortest careers life-spans and be the most injury prone.

Just look at the 90s. Olajuwon, Shaq, David Robinson, and Ewing were the most dominant big guys.

Olajuwon won two championships, but a whole lot of people will argue that's only because MJ retired for a year and half. 

David Robinson didn't win anything, and started to fade as a player. It wasn't until Tim Duncan came along in the late 90s that the Spurs actually won a championship.

Ewing didn't win anyting.

Shaq didn't start winning championships until the 2000s, so I'd count his dominance as more apart of the 00s decade. The same with Duncan.

Then when you get into the 2000s, you can add Kevin Garnett and Pau Gasol as hall of fame 7 footers who played down low. 

People just lionize the past far too much when it comes to the NBA.

I'll take the bigs of the last decade, Shaq, Duncan, Garnett, Gasol over the bigs from the 90s, Olajuwon, Ewing, Robinson, young Shaq. I mean Duncan is the best player on the list. Shaq had a better career than anyone not named Duncan, then it's Olajuwon. Robinson and Garnett is pretty close but I'd say KG has the edge, and then Pau over Ewing to round it out.

Just my personal opinion, but when you actually take the time to break it down your golden age thinking becomes obvious.

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May 27th, 2014 at 12:15 PM
(Reply to #132) #87
pescadero
pescadero's picture
Joined: 03/28/2013
MGoPoints: 5991
"That is simply untrue. All

"That is simply untrue. All of those guys I've mentioned have good to great post up games."

 

We just have significantly different definitions of a "good to great post up game".

 

"Hakeem had maybe the greatest post up game in history. Holding him up as being indicative of the level of post play in the late 80s to early 90s is totally ridiculous."

 

Good thing I'm not doing that.

He isn't indicative of the level of play in those days - he actually had a great post game.

You seem to think I'm claiming there were tons of great post up players back in the day. There weren't.

Good to great post up players were RARE when Hakeem, Robinson, and Ewing were playing - they're almost non-existent now.

 

"If you have an Olajuwon or a David Robinson, then sure, but how many of those guys have their been in the entire history of the NBA? A handful?"
 

That is my point.

There aren't  a lot of good post up players now. There NEVER have been a large number of players in the NBA at any one time with "good to great" post up games. It was rare in the '80's-'90's... it's almost unheard of now.

 

"I'll take the bigs of the last decade, Shaq, Duncan, Garnett, Gasol over the bigs from the 90s,"

 

If I'm trying to win basketball games under the current NBA rules - I agree.

If I'm picking guys to demonstrate actual back to the basket post-up skills? I'll take the older guys.

 

 

 

 

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May 27th, 2014 at 4:36 PM
(Reply to #142) #88
TheLastHarbaugh
TheLastHarbaugh's picture
Joined: 08/06/2008
MGoPoints: 10183
We just have significantly

We just have significantly different definitions of a "good to great post up game".

 

Well it seems to me, according to your definition there have only been like 5 or 6 guys in NBA history with a good to great post up game.

I think that's ridiculous.

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May 29th, 2014 at 5:19 PM
(Reply to #144) #89
pescadero
pescadero's picture
Joined: 03/28/2013
MGoPoints: 5991
There have been significantly

There have been significantly more than 5 or 6 guys IN NBA HISTORY with a good to great post up game.

 

It's been very rare in NBA history for there to be more than 5-6 guys with a good to great post up game playing in the NBA at the same time.

 

 

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May 25th, 2014 at 8:30 AM
#90
cbuswolverine
Joined: 08/14/2008
MGoPoints: 5931
"So tonight I watched my

"So tonight I watched my first NBA game on TV in about 5 years. "

Say that out loud five times.  

Now think.

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May 25th, 2014 at 8:34 AM
#91
Gulogulo37
Gulogulo37's picture
Joined: 03/16/2010
MGoPoints: 11542
I find the NBA boring to

I find the NBA boring to watch, but this is a terrible post.

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May 25th, 2014 at 9:03 AM
#92
bronxblue
Joined: 11/22/2008
MGoPoints: 59111
The NBA is done. people who barely watch the

The NBA is done. people who barely watch the product and have false memories of games 20 years ago always drive me crazy.

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May 25th, 2014 at 12:08 PM
(Reply to #66) #93
Gobgoblue
Joined: 07/07/2012
MGoPoints: 14737
You mean like

Ginobli, Parker, and Duncan vs Ray Allen, D Wade, and LeBron?

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May 25th, 2014 at 2:22 PM
(Reply to #66) #94
gord
gord's picture
Joined: 11/02/2013
MGoPoints: 8104
So you think 2 teams with all

So you think 2 teams with all of the good players was a good thing?

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May 25th, 2014 at 7:42 PM
(Reply to #66) #95
bronxblue
Joined: 11/22/2008
MGoPoints: 59111
Many of the teams playing in

Many of the teams playing in the playoffs have future HOFers, they are simply playing right now so we don't have the same perspective.  Allen, Wade, Lebron, Duncan, Parker, Durant, maybe George, Westbrook, and Ginobili. 

And those Pistons teams had, what, 3 HOfers on them, and Rodman and Dumars definitely had some question marks.  And the Bulls had Jordan and Pippen and who else?  I don't see a plaque for B.J. Armstrong coming down the pipe anytime soon.

The NBA had a couple of teams with a lot of really good players in the 1970's and 80's, but the vast majority were not fantastic and, I'd argue, played during an era where defense was de-emphasised.  This resulted in a more aesthetically pleasing, but not better, game.

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May 25th, 2014 at 9:07 AM
#96
bluebyyou
Joined: 09/07/2009
MGoPoints: 10801
Each year I try to watch the

Each year I try to watch the NBA playoffs as it would give me something else in sports to watch after the NCAA tournament.  I just can't get into the NBA's style of play.  With rare exception, tt lacks the raw emotion that is present in good quality college basketball, even with better athletes.

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May 25th, 2014 at 9:43 AM
#97
ESNY
Joined: 11/06/2008
MGoPoints: 7199
rabblerabblerabblerabblerabbl

rabblerabblerabblerabblerabblerabblerabble

rabblerabblerabblerabblerabblerabblerabble

theytookourjoooooobs

rabblerabblerabblerabblerabblerabblerabble

rabblerabblerabblerabblerabblerabblerabble

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May 25th, 2014 at 9:44 AM
#98
UPMichigan
UPMichigan's picture
Joined: 01/09/2010
MGoPoints: 9055
I can't stand watching NBA

I can't stand watching NBA basketball

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May 25th, 2014 at 10:12 AM
#99
Rhino77
Rhino77's picture
Joined: 05/27/2011
MGoPoints: 6542
You ever go back and watch

You ever go back and watch some of the shows from your youth and think "man, this is REALLY awful!?"



Maybe it's not so much the product that has changed but maybe it's your own personal tastes have evolved? It happens.

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May 25th, 2014 at 5:44 PM
(Reply to #75) #100
Clarence Beeks
Clarence Beeks's picture
Joined: 09/06/2008
MGoPoints: 11148
I've actually done this, and

I've actually done this, and I get your point that tastes change, but honestly those shows were terrible. Seriously, if you have Netflix, go back and watch the original episodes of any of the "classic" TV shows of the 70s-90s. Seriously not good at all. Although, to be fair, we could be talking about completely different eras of "classic", because pre-70s "classics" have held up pretty well.

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May 25th, 2014 at 10:13 AM
#101
ndscott50
Joined: 10/02/2009
MGoPoints: 1435
I don't like

Watermelon or coconut. The taste of each is unappealing to me. I also tried white water kayaking and did not enjoy it at all. It essentially involved flipping over in cold water, escaping the Kayak, and slamming into rocks. You would then get back into the Kayak and repeat this process several times until you mercifully reached a point where you could exit the river, I also don't really care for the walking dead at this point. The slow moving plot focused on unending misery has led me to abandon the show.

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May 25th, 2014 at 10:40 AM
#102
randyfloyd
randyfloyd's picture
Joined: 08/19/2008
MGoPoints: 3562
Sadly

I agree

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May 25th, 2014 at 10:49 AM
#103
YoBoMoLoHo
Joined: 11/30/2011
MGoPoints: 193
The NBA regular season is too

The NBA regular season is too long & it STINKS.... The playoffs are pretty much the right size & time-frame, & so if you have a local team in it (the Pistons), it's pretty fun to watch.... The NBA players are more offensively skilled then EVER (as a group). I'll watch a random game once per week, & I each time I see several amazing offensive plays.... BUT the players attitudes & body language is the worst it's ever been.... It's called "I've been worshipped on the court since I was 13, so I've learned that I can live my life without showing respect to anyone ever. Unless it directly benefits me in a specific situation". I hate it. I aint old.

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May 25th, 2014 at 10:54 AM
#104
LS And Play
LS And Play's picture
Joined: 08/25/2012
MGoPoints: 8423
I'm not a fan of the NBA

I'm not a fan, per se, of the NBA (I'm not emotionally invested in any particular way), but I follow it closely in a passive manner. What would be interesting to me is if you had a John Beilein coaching the Thunder. Anyone who watches the Thunder will recognize their offensive sets are rudimentary, to put it  kindly. Where the NBA is lacking, in my opinion, is the level of elite coaches. I mean, Scott Brooks's play seems to be follows:

1) Iso Kevin

2) Iso Russ

Now, not all NBA coaches are like this (Pop, Doc Rivers, etc) but if all the teams with elite talent had elite coaches, I think you'd see a product even the NBA haters can enjoy.

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May 25th, 2014 at 11:23 AM
#105
Magnum P.I.
Magnum P.I.'s picture
Joined: 07/16/2009
MGoPoints: 11284
I enjoyed watching the Bad

I enjoyed watching the Bad Boys, Jordan, Kings-Lakers, and the 2003-2008 Pistons. Something changed for me at the end of that run, though. The 2006 finals was the tipping point, and Dwyane Wade is the embodiment of what's gone wrong with the NBA to me. So desperate for "stars," the NBA decided Wade would score 25 points per game regardless of his inability to shoot and recklessness driving the ball. Stars always got preferred treatment from the zebras, but that series took it to a whole nother level of ridiculousness that ruined the game for me.

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May 25th, 2014 at 12:36 PM
(Reply to #84) #106
JBE
JBE's picture
Joined: 08/18/2008
MGoPoints: 17893
Yeah. The NBA decided to let

Yeah. The NBA decided to let D Wade score. Cumong, man. That is a terrible argument.

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May 25th, 2014 at 12:38 PM
(Reply to #84) #107
Grumby
Grumby's picture
Joined: 01/28/2014
MGoPoints: 12
The 2006 finals was the

The 2006 finals was the tipping point for me as well. I understand driving to the basket as a star usually results in a foul. However, there were moments where it appeared his state of mind was simply, jump into someone's chest to get a foul.

If it works, why stop? It stinks for fans that prefer to see talent that's not 'blow pass your man and jump in the lane' offense. As much as i hate to admit it, the Heat's offense last night displayed high quality shooting, ugh, Ray Allen is a highlander.

Serious question, have calls like traveling and moving screens become synoumous as the football, there is holding on every play so why call it motto?

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May 25th, 2014 at 8:10 PM
(Reply to #84) #108
bronxblue
Joined: 11/22/2008
MGoPoints: 59111
It wasn't the best series in

It wasn't the best series in the world, but the idea that Wade was shooting so many more foul shots during the playoffs than during the regular season in this career just doesn't match up to the stats.  Look at his career FTA and you see at most a slight uptick, but compare it to Jordan and Wade looks barely pampered at all.  The difference is that there weren't hundreds of bloggers and #HOTTAKES to bitch about it in 1988 or whatever.

I don't think this is the greatest string of success for the NBA, but it isn't nearly as bad as people are making it out to be. 

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May 25th, 2014 at 8:10 PM
(Reply to #84) #109
bronxblue
Joined: 11/22/2008
MGoPoints: 59111
It wasn't the best series in

It wasn't the best series in the world, but the idea that Wade was shooting so many more foul shots during the playoffs than during the regular season in this career just doesn't match up to the stats.  Look at his career FTA and you see at most a slight uptick, but compare it to Jordan and Wade looks barely pampered at all.  The difference is that there weren't hundreds of bloggers and #HOTTAKES to bitch about it in 1988 or whatever.

I don't think this is the greatest string of success for the NBA, but it isn't nearly as bad as people are making it out to be. 

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May 25th, 2014 at 12:11 PM
#110
MGoChippewa
Joined: 01/06/2011
MGoPoints: 6357
First off

this is definitely OT. Now on to your terrible argument. Watching one game in five years hardly qualifies you to criticize the quality of the play. That being said, I'm not sure how much you even watched last night seeing as you complained about ball movement and the Heat offense thrives off of making the extra pass. You probably didn't enjoy the skill level of the Pacers last night because they pride themselves on defense.  As far as the skilled big men go, there are plenty. Kevin Love, Dwight Howard, Blake Griffin, Tim Duncan, Dirk Nowitzki, Marc Gasol, Pau Gasol, LaMarcus Aldridge, Chris Bosh, etc. All of those guys are very versatile, talented players. Also, the NBA is doing just fine; revenue is rising and the Clippers are about to sell for roughly $1 billion dollars. 

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May 25th, 2014 at 12:59 PM
#111
tbeindit
tbeindit's picture
Joined: 01/28/2011
MGoPoints: 1944
Actually said after the 1st

Actually said after the 1st Round that I was willing to bet everyone would forget about how great the Playoffs have been this year if Miami continues to advance. Well, happened sooner than I thought. Anybody who trashes these Playoffs hasn't been watching them.

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May 27th, 2014 at 11:43 AM
(Reply to #94) #112
jonvalk
jonvalk's picture
Joined: 07/19/2009
MGoPoints: 7753
Agreed. Except for the

Agreed. Except for the current series, this has been the best NBA playoffs in recent history. Not to mention, with Serge Ibaka back in the lineup for OKC, it's looking like the Spurs won't just waltz into the Finals. Some amazing series this post-season.

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May 25th, 2014 at 1:35 PM
#113
xxxxNateDaGreat
xxxxNateDaGreat's picture
Joined: 11/28/2011
MGoPoints: 2932
^OP's vision of great

^OP's vision of great basketball^

Those were the days, I tell ya!

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May 25th, 2014 at 3:05 PM
#114
GRBluefan
Joined: 02/13/2009
MGoPoints: 7199
I generally...

Don't mind the nba. The biggest problem is flow. It seems like every possession has a foul. Anytime a player dribbles into the lane and jumps it is a foul, regardless of who initiated contact. And then you get the pleasure of watching whoever the foul is called on start acting like they have been falsely accused of rape, even if they essentially punched the guy in the face.



Effort, skill, shooting, etc all seems fine to me.

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May 25th, 2014 at 4:27 PM
#115
DrewGOBLUE
DrewGOBLUE's picture
Joined: 12/03/2011
MGoPoints: 2937
Most people around here

Most people around here probably agree college basketball is much, much more fun to watch. There's nothing in sports as exciting as the NCAA tournament, IMO.



However, if you think back to the NBA playoffs last season, you certainly can't legitimately think the Heat-Spurs series lacked excitement in the least bit.

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May 25th, 2014 at 8:01 PM
(Reply to #109) #116
bronxblue
Joined: 11/22/2008
MGoPoints: 59111
March Madness is exciting in

March Madness is exciting in pieces; lots of those games were horrible to watch.  Lousiville vs. Saint Louise jumps to mind, and MANY B1G games were turrible affairs.  I'd argue college basketball is as bad as it has been in years, simply because instead of there being a bunch of HS stars bypassing it entirely, you instead have guys like Calpiari and Self rolling out the ball rack and letting a bunch of one-and-done kids figure it out for one year while eyeing the exit ramp.

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May 25th, 2014 at 4:27 PM
#117
htownwolverine
htownwolverine's picture
Joined: 09/02/2009
MGoPoints: 7149
Watch the Spurs for the best

Watch the Spurs for the best team basketball this year. When the Spurs are clicking it's a thing of beauty.

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May 25th, 2014 at 8:18 PM
#118
jdon
jdon's picture
Joined: 09/28/2009
MGoPoints: 5416
I'll bite.

First off let me say that anytime people bitch about the 'modern NBA' my racism sensors go off...

Second, if i I could change anything in the NBA I woudl only do two things:

1.) allow teams to fanchise players so that you don't get a Lebron 2.0

2.) allow teams to play any type of defense that they want.

extra credit: I would make any foul in the final 2 minutes a flagrant.

love,

jdon

 

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May 25th, 2014 at 11:48 PM
(Reply to #118) #119
JamieH
Joined: 09/05/2009
MGoPoints: 12966
Huh?

Why would bitching about the "modern" NBA be racist?  The NBA Superstars of the 1980's were almost exclusively black as well and most people consider that to be the NBA's Golden Era..  Who were the white stars?  Bird, Stockton and who else?  I mean there have been a handful of great white players, but the majority of the superstars in the NBA have been black for at least 45 years now.   The Bad Boy Piston teams only had one white guy who even saw the floor--Laimbeer.  Magic's Showtime Lakers were mostly black players as well.  I can't think of any white guys on their squad outside of Kurt Rambis.  I don't see how the "modern" NBA is any less biased towards black guys than it was 25 years go. You probably have to go back to the 60's to find a time when black guys didn't completely dominate the NBA. 

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May 26th, 2014 at 12:03 AM
(Reply to #124) #120
gord
gord's picture
Joined: 11/02/2013
MGoPoints: 8104
The thug culture is a lot

The thug culture is a lot more prevelant in the NBA now.  You didn't see guys with neck tattoos, or any tattoos, in the 80's.  Rodman didn't even have tattoos with the Pistons.  There are tatted up white guys in the league now too but most of the guys with full sleeves and neck tattoos are black.   

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May 26th, 2014 at 9:28 AM
(Reply to #125) #121
Serth
Serth's picture
Joined: 01/20/2010
MGoPoints: 1943
huh?

ray. cyst.

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May 26th, 2014 at 9:39 AM
(Reply to #125) #122
MGoChippewa
Joined: 01/06/2011
MGoPoints: 6357
Yes, I'm sure

this is more indicative of the NBA and not just a shift in culture. Also, if the NBA is so full of thugs, please tell us the last time the league produced a serious offender like the NFL has several times in the last few years. Way more crime in the NFL, but they don't get accused of having a thug culture because the face of the league are Brady and Manning, not LeBron and Durant.

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May 25th, 2014 at 9:16 PM
#123
Roy G. Biv
Roy G. Biv's picture
Joined: 09/03/2010
MGoPoints: 2781
I do think skill level is not

I do think skill level is not what it once was-even something as fundamental as passing in/out of the post struggles. I have no quantitative evidence-just the eyeball test. I do think, however, that overall athleticism is way up. Teams seem to draft athleticism over skill.

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May 25th, 2014 at 10:43 PM
#124
Real Tackles Wear 77
Real Tackles Wear 77's picture
Joined: 07/05/2008
MGoPoints: 6451
Anyone who says the nba is in

Anyone who says the nba is in decline has clearly not watched a game in years...wait...

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May 26th, 2014 at 1:53 PM
#125
MichiganSports
MichiganSports's picture
Joined: 05/20/2014
MGoPoints: 2772
The biggest problem with the

The biggest problem with the NBA isn't the NBA; Its at the High School level and this AAU crap. They don't teach these kids fundamental's anymore. Its not all on the coaches at that level, but with the way the AAU works and kids constatnly on the move they just aren't picking things up.

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May 26th, 2014 at 9:29 PM
#126
uofmfan4
Joined: 03/06/2014
MGoPoints: 198
Lol whenever people talk

Lol whenever people talk about the fall of the NBA I have no idea wtf they're talking about. My guess is you know very little about basketball. Probably saw a couple "easy" layups and immediately assumed players were being "lazy". Just the typical old white person narrative. 

The game evolves. Who cares if there's not as many good big men? There aren't many Walter Payton 'carry the ball 30 times a game' RBs in the NFL these days, but people don't talk about how bad the product is. Simple minded thinking is a *you* problem, not a league problem. When you watch a game 5 years from now, think about why you see an easy layup. Maybe it's because there are 4 (sometimes 5) legit threats to make a shot from 20 feet out? Maybe the defense has to respect that, opening up the lane. Maybe you don't see that in college because nobody can f*cking shoot? THINK.

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May 27th, 2014 at 2:42 PM
#127
poseidon7902
poseidon7902's picture
Joined: 11/09/2013
MGoPoints: 2998
Perception, entitlement, and

Perception, entitlement, and special treatment are what I believe has driven people away from some sports.  When i watch sports, it's hard for me to look at these players in some sports (NBA and MLB) and feel enjoyment.  My opinion on why the NFL as a professional sport is still watched is the heart and soul you have to maintain just to play.  When we see Lebron James being caried off the court because of a cramp then see guys leaving the football field with blood on their uniforms, it makes me feel like there's heart there in the NFL and the NBA is a bunch of premadonnas.  

 

On top of that, entertainment as a whole has changed dramatically over time.  It's not the time when people had to get up and go to a game and enjoyed the time it took.  Now Baseball games are 3 hours plus long.  Kids are engrained with video games and their attention span won't absorb that kind of investment with that much of a break in the action.  I'm not saying these things are bad, but I am seeing that this is part of the reason that sports like Baseball are declining.  

 

The players play an impact on this as well.  When Lebron has his orgasmic announcement I think it turned a ton of people off.  The strikes in Baseball, basketball and to some extent hockey have greatly turned peoples opinions.  

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