The myth that "the cupboard was bare"
I couldn't remember most of the guys we had on defense in 2008, so I went and looked them up and what they were rated when they were being recruited. I just went along with the people that said things like "there wasn't much talent" and things like that. But I went and looked up the starters in 2008, and here they are:
Morgan Trent Senior - 4 stars
John Thompson Senior - 3 stars
Terrance Taylor Senior- 4 stars
Will Johnson Senior - 4 stars
Charles Stewart Senior - 3 stars
Donnavon Warren Sophomore - 5 stars
Tim Jamison Senior - 4 stars
Stevie Brown Junior - 4 stars
Troy Woolfolk Sophomore - 3 stars
Obi Ezeh Sophomore - 3 stars (although he was a running back in hs)
Jonas Mouton Sophomore - 4 stars
Brandon Graham Sophomore - 5 stars
I realize most of these guys didn't play in these last two years, but in 2008 the defense was still bad and there's no way it should have been that bad. It was defninitely piss poor coaching. I'd kill for that defense now! Can't wait for Hoke to restore order.
February 10th, 2011 at 11:26 PM ^
I really, really feel like it might be best for you and for others if you went ahead and switched the ol' college football allegiance over to another team. I'm sure Rodriguez will land on his feet in a year or two, so you might enjoy following his meteoric rise wherever that may be. In the meantime, maybe Boise State's offense will fulfill your craving for Football Rebellion.
Just, you know, a suggestion.
One more thing: I don't personally put much weight into the idea of Lloyd's alleged 'faction,' and I sure as hell don't believe that it had fuck-all to do with Rodriguez's firing, but if you do - if you think there was a battle for the soul of Schembechler Hall between Lloyd and Rodriguez - there's only one conclusion to draw.
Lloyd won.
February 10th, 2011 at 11:50 PM ^
a Rodriguez-Casteel team waxes the Michigan Wolverines.
Lloyd Carr is finished in the Michigan Athletic Department. And Braylon Edwards is on probation in two states and paying child support in two more.
February 11th, 2011 at 12:02 AM ^
You're the donkeys ass of the board tonight.
February 11th, 2011 at 1:25 AM ^
Sure seems like Lloyd effectively mobilized his minions to create a hostile atmosphere for Rodriguez, no? Is he finished or not?
Why don't you just go to bed and dream some gutsy, historic, delicious dreams about Rodriguez and Casteel wreaking terrible vengeance upon Michigan football.
February 10th, 2011 at 11:13 PM ^
First of all, letterwhiners may be more obnoxious than either O$U or Spartina, so congrats.
Also:
I never thought that you were opposed to the Mattison signing, though this isn't really the central issue.
I bet Mattison is making considerably less than a million per year, but I could be wrong. We'll find out. Also tangential.
You still haven't really addressed my suggestion that Rodriguez might bear at least some responsibility in the failure to sway Casteel; we may never know, but stuff like "the rumor I like" just goes to show how much of your argument is built upon the fantasy of what you want to believe happened, as opposed to any good evidence.
You're attaching some kind of moral, almost emotional valence to this whole issue, which may explain the aforementioned fantastic thinking. "Gutsy, risky, smart" (ok, maybe I can see tha-) "fantastic, historic" (... I'll give you a minute to clean up.) Personally, I'm more optimistic with Hoke as HC, Borges running the offense, and Mattison as DC than I would have been with Rodriguez and Casteel. It may have been 'gutsier' for DB to put all his chips in Rodriguez's basket, to continue the metaphor, but like many ZOMG BALLSY decisions, it might have been kinda stupid, too. I know the conventional wisdom round here is that Rodriguez had a high ceiling, that his schematic advantage might have pushed us past Tressel, where more traditional coaches will fail. I'm not so sure. The West Virginia resume is solid, but I think that the weakness of the Big East (only partially mitigated by two big bowl wins, IME) and the fortuitous combination of White and Slaton may be more important than we thought back in 2008. If Hoke can hire top-notch coordinators and recruit like hell (both of which have been suggested but certainly not proven), I'd say his ceiling - with a pro-style offense and defense - is actually higher.
Finally, I'd still like to hear your rationale for why Rodriguez ran Shafer out of town and couldn't find a plan B better than GERG, even supposing that the rumors you'd really like to believe about Casteel are true.
February 10th, 2011 at 11:38 PM ^
And the infamous video of a minor meltdown on the sideline during the OSU game in Columbus. And people wonder why Scott Schafer might have been "run out of town"?
The situation with Greg Robinson is complicated, because it is hard to set aside what we now know via hindsight. I don't defend Robinson. All that I say is that on paper, pre-hiring, he looked like a plausible candidate. Robinson was a former Head Coach, a former defensive coordinator and defensive position coach at many different levels, sometimes with success, sometimes not. He'd been part of some important programs; Texas Longhorns, the Chiefs, Jets, Broncos, etc.
Anyway, my point with Robinson was to say he clearly wasn't Rodriguez's first choice. And even the more discerning among the Rodriguez faithful (Brain Cook was the top of the class) questioned the Robinson hiring. What I say is that Rodriguez gets credit for having originally picked the best guy, but failing that choice, he made a plausible choice in Robinson. It turned out to have been the wrong choice, but there's no way that Robinson would have been coming back in any event.
There was a lot of good to be found on the 2010 Michigan football team; and what was bad, I think would have been substantially turned around in a more positive direction with Jeff Casteel coming in and doing a defensive housecleaning, with the full support and confidence of the Head Coach. Casteel would have had some better bodies to work with in 2011, than what Greg Robinson had in 2010, too.
I'd be delighted to take the sadly fictional bet of a Rodriguez-Casteel-coached Michigan team against a Hoke-Mattison-coached Michigan team. I wish there could be a way to see that bet settled; unfortunately it will just be a fiction.
February 11th, 2011 at 1:49 AM ^
You're still full of crazy. First, Shafer was successful before Michigan, and now he's successful again. By the end of the season, his authority over the defense had been undermined by Rodriguez/Gibson. Then Rodriguez fired him. Then Rodriguez hired GERG. GERG's Wikipedia page and NCAA team statistics are good points of reference for schmoes like you, me, and Brian Cook to pontificate about coaching hires. Top-level coaches, by contrast, need to look past a list of someone's prior jobs in order to make informed decisions. Rodriguez completely fucked the pooch by hiring GERG. Hell, even Brian Cook was able to read between the lines of what the internets turned up on GERG and say "this doesn't seem like such a good idea." Even if he was not his first choice, there were other choices out there.
Finally, your bald assertion that Casteel was "the best choice," and that Rodriguez should be given credit for trying to hire him only further confirms my sense that you are deep in the throes of sweaty, desperate manlove. Hire the defensive coordinator that you used to work with at WVU because then no other adjustments to scheme and staff would have to be made, then, failing that, hire a run-down, fresh-off-driving a program-into-the ground has-been (who really never was that much) and just go ahead and tell him to run the same scheme that Jeff used to run because this ain't your first rodeo and you had a lot of success doing things that way don't people remember?
That's some next-level, modern-era, MNC-contending shit right there.
February 11th, 2011 at 10:58 AM ^
First, Shafer was successful before Michigan, and now he's successful again. By the end of the season, his authority over the defense had been undermined by Rodriguez/Gibson. Then Rodriguez fired him. Then Rodriguez hired GERG.
Rodriguez "undermined" Robinson? Robinson worked for Rodriguez!
And you missed the part where Rodrigez "tried to hire Jeff Casteel" before hiring Greg Robinson.Look, I didn't start this thread. This thread began by showing mildly embarassing footage of Michigan's sideline melting down (mostly Charles Stewart melting down) during the '08 OSU game. Most of the posters here were taking that video as stark evidence that Michigan's coaches were incompetent. Why they pinned that on Rodriguez, I don't exactly understand because that's not what Rodriguez did; he never called defensive signals. Scott Schafer did that. And Scott Schafer, not Rich Rodriguez, was in the middle of that huddle on the sidelines.
I didn't exactly say that Scott Schafer was incompetent, but I did say I am not at all surprised that an episode like that would be followed by a coaching change. All of the anti-Rodriguez haters say that is why they coldly and dispassionately feel that Rodriguez shoud be gone, after all. You point out that Schafer was a good DC before coming to Michigan and a good DC after leaving Michigan. I'd point out that Rich Rodriguez was a good coach before coming to Michigan and he'll be a good coach at his next stop.
As far as my admiration of Jeff Casteel, it too is based on his record. He was, clearly, Rich Rodriguez's first choice. He has had a mostly superb record every year for the last five years. WVU has gotten progressively stronger on defense throughout his tenure. Everybody seems to know what a good DC Casteel is, and he's gotten lots of other offers. The notion that Jeff Casteel is a highly desirable DC candidate is hardly unique.
Menawhile, all that I have been doing is logically and carefully defending Rich Rodriguez. It clearly was not an easy decision for Brandon to fire Rodriguez. For all of the reasons that I have been pointing out.
You seem to want me to jump enthusiastically on the Brady Hoke Bandwagon, and that part and parcel of that enterprise requires all of us to throw all memory of Rich Rodriguez under that wagon. And I won't do that. I truly don't care what kinds of fans all of you are, or what sort of fan you think I am.
February 10th, 2011 at 6:21 PM ^
before we can ask why they failed to bring rr's first choice, they must fir asnwer why they brought rr to michigan.
February 10th, 2011 at 11:06 PM ^
Dude. If someone needs to explain to you why RR was a damn good choice in 2007, then...aww, forget it. Every time you comment I want to punch myself in the face. And it's only been what, 2 days? Just stop or go to MLive or Rivals or something.
February 10th, 2011 at 11:35 PM ^
February 11th, 2011 at 12:38 AM ^
I mean, there may have been some hyperbole on my part there. Or just . . . I'm not even sure after having read the thread all the way through. Perhaps a desire for self-inflicted pain to take my mind off of the OP.
Or, I guess I could've just, you know, closed my browser.
February 11th, 2011 at 2:13 AM ^
Glad I didn't. I reached a level beyond pain that became extremely entertaining. :)
