My Thoughts on MSU/UM
[Ed-M: If you ignore the obvious derp parts this is diary-worthy]
Here are my takeaways on the MSU/UM game and thoughts moving forward.
1. Gholston - I will start with the elephant in the room. Did Gholston make dirty plays? Yes. Should he be suspended? Yes. Should this be the number one story from the game? No. Do I think Dantonio/Narduzzi teach players to injure opponents? No.
My opinion is that Gholston was super jacked up for a rivalry game and in his warped mind thought that this is what a rivalry game means. He was wrong, he should be punished and I expect him to learn from this. If he continues to make these type of plays he should be gone. That's my take.
For those thinking that Dantonio should have removed him immediately from the game, I think you are crazy. I can't think of any coach who has voluntarily removed a player. Did RRod remove Mouton? Did Carr remove Greg Matthews?. Should Carr have? No. Should RRod have? No. Should Dantonio have? No.
[Ed-M: And there's the derp. I expected both Mouton and Mathews (one 't') to be suspended. Mouton was. If either of those players had a repeat offense during the same game, absolutely you should pull him. Gholston had three such plays, the arm-bar, the punch (the least of them), and the piling-on and facemask twist. He should have been pulled after the second. As I said above, ignore the derp.]
In the heat of the game, coaches don't have ESPN replays and they probably don't even know what happened. Plus, they have a duty to move onto the next play. I just think it is entirely unrealistic to expect a coach to self police DURING the game and unilaterraly remove one of his players.
2. The game is won in the trenches - Nothwithstanding the snap count timing, I still think MSU won the battle up front. This doesn't mean UM isn't "tough", it just means that MSU's patchwork OLine did enough to run the ball. To me, that was the biggest key to the game. I said before hand, if MSU loses it is because they can't run it and UM pressures Cousins into bad decisions. MSU was able to run it and Cousins was clean.
3. 2012 Whooping in Ann Arbor and beyond - I have read some comments from some regarding the whipping UM will put on MSU in 2012. I don't see it happening. You can never predict a year in advance and I'm not saying MSU will win, but I don't see a "whooping". The reason is that MSU will still be better in the trenches next year. We return 10 of 11 defensive starters next year. 9 of 11 if Worthy leaves. MSU's OLine will return 4 of 5 starters and a bunch of injured reserves. Conversely, UM loses its best two DLineman (Martin and RVB) and Molk. IMO, Michigan will not regain the upper hand until Hoke has his OLine and DLine in place. This will probably be 2013 or 2014, not 2012. Here is where I disagree with some UM fans. I think Hoke is a good coach and nobody can dispute that he has recruited VERY WELL. However, some people just assume that MSU will fade into Bolivia (isn't that used on this board) and cede control back to UM. I understand that is what you hope for and expect as UM fans. I get that, but as an MSU fan, I just tend to disagree. I have no illusions that MSU will win 10 in a row, but I feel that once UM gets back on its feet, MSU will stay there with them and go toe to toe.
Why? Because Dantonio has proven he can evaluate and develop talent (especially on defense). This MSU defense is not loaded with 4 and 5 star players. It has a few, but our best players (Worthy, Adams, Rush) were 3 star recruits from Ohio that Dantonio will continue to get. Others (Darqueze Dennard and Trenton Robinson) were 2 stars. My point is, even when Hoke gets his guys, I expect this to still be a hotly contested rivalry, not an ass whipping like it has been the last 4 years (in our favor) or the last 40 years (in your favor).
4. Gardner and Denard - I said before the year that I would have rolled with Gardner because he is the future and he has the tools to do what Borges wants to do. TO HIS CREDIT, Borges put his ego on the backburner and went with Denard running mostly RRod's offense. It's easy to criticise after a loss and call for Gardner, but MICHIGAN IS 6-1!!! If Gardner were QB, what would their record be? My guess is 5-2 at best (a loss to ND). With that said, I never felt this would be a championship year for UM and it would better to gear towards the future (i.e. Gardner). However, it is a difficult and delicate decision. It would have been disingeniuos by Hoke to brink Denard back with the promise he was his QB and then ship him off to WR/RB/Slash. Now that UM is 6-1, I think Hoke would be a fool to switch to Gardner. UM (even with its warts) is still capable of winning the Legends division with Denard at the helm.
5. MSU v. Wiscy&Nebraska - Of course I desperately want to win against Wisconsin on ESPN under the lights. BUT, if I could play "let's make a deal", I would take a Wiscy loss for a Nebraska win right now. Beating NEB would ensure that we hold the tiebreaker over NEB and UM and we would control our own destiny.
Adios
October 20th, 2011 at 1:16 PM ^
This MGosubject has MGogotten pretty MGoold with so many MGothreads MGostarted on it. In fact, this is the MGosecond MGopost you've MGoposted on this MGotopic, MGoRationalMSUFan. Also, is an MGoRationalMSUFan even MGopossible???
October 20th, 2011 at 1:20 PM ^
You have earned your name. That was a very rational response. Agree with much of it. Nice to sanity has a small window in East Lansing :)
October 20th, 2011 at 1:23 PM ^
I can agree with most of what you have said. As much as I, and I think many Michigan fans, feel this is the top of the mountain for MSU, Dantonio has stabalized the program and taken it to new heights.
I would argue that in an age of parody in college football, State has not done much to set it apart as a football program (whether it is tradition, consistantly winning big games, setting trends, etc.). It has, however, brought some negative PR upon itself with its players acting like fools (Rather Hall incident, Winston, Rucker, Sims, Gholston), and Dantonio has handled himself in a way that I would not be proud of if he was my coach. That can be overlooked with a BIG championship and being 4-1 against Michigan.
So I can understand how you are excited and proud of your program, and overlook some of the flaws (as we do with ours), but I have a feeling that this could be the pinnacle of Spartan football existence. I do not think you will go away, but I think as Michigan gets rolling again with instate recruiting and stable coaching, State will be taken down a few pegs. I love Dantonio as your coach b/c he is easy to hate with his banter with student athletes, constipated look on his face, lack of disciplinary action against his team, etc. The list goes on and he does not strike me as a coach with a broad vision and aspirations to get beyond his overt hatred towards Michigan.
Go Blue.
October 20th, 2011 at 1:51 PM ^
*parity, not parody
October 20th, 2011 at 1:52 PM ^
I just think it is entirely unrealistic to expect a coach to self police DURING the game and unilaterraly remove one of his players
You do? Sorry, I disagree. Coaches hold players out of a game all the time for dumb penalties and dumb decisions. Because that's they're job, they're expected to. Now, I agree that it's unrealistic to expect him to hold Gholston out teh whole game...but you're wrong if you think it's unrealistic for the coach to self police during the game.
Also, one more thing, you don't have to TEACH someone how to be dirty. It's pretty easy to do that yourself. What a coach is supposed to do is TEACH your players how to play with an edge but in a clean, emphasis on the CLEAN, way. Facemask twists are not clean. Blatantly late hits and takedown aren't clean. Punches most definitely aren't clean (and I don't care what Lewan did there. Punching is a worse offense in teh context of a game).
It's debatable what Gholston did was deliberate or not. It was pretty deliberate in my mind. But you cannot act like your coaches police a clean game when your own D coordinator says himself it was "60 minutes of unnecessary roughness" like it was a good thing. All I know, is in the future these personal fouls will bite you in the ass. In fact, it's ridiculous to think they helped you win the game when Michigan was ONE PLAY away from tying the game after MSU had been dominating in the trenches all day and Denard throwing lame ducks into 45 mph winds (and Borges calling nothing but passing plays in a trash tornado...damnit)
EDIT: Last thing, whether it should be or not, the Gholston and Rush are still the number one stories of the game (much like how the Harbaugh/Schwartz incident took the spotlight after a good Lions/49ers game). That's partially their fault, and frankly by this point in the week it's also Dantonio's fault. It's not Michigan fans' fault. and if you think so I disagree...we saw our player get his heayanked and bodyslammed...we demand retribution for obvious beyond-the-line dirty play. That IS a big deal (you can't deny it), and it's still an unresolved issue. He should be suspended by now without shadow of a doubt. It's arguable MSU is trying to negotiate and work with the Big ten on how long the suspension should be...but that's a stretch. In many ppl's minds MSu's dragging their feet on purpose on two relatively black and white instances. (Like I said, what Lewan did/said does NOT excuse a punch like that. Did it excuse Blount when the Boise player taunted him and said not nice things? No.)
October 20th, 2011 at 1:48 PM ^
October 20th, 2011 at 1:50 PM ^
Sorry
October 20th, 2011 at 2:10 PM ^
Yeah, who's your QB next year? Joe Boisture?
October 20th, 2011 at 4:14 PM ^
Stop thinking we care what you think.
October 20th, 2011 at 5:41 PM ^
to cede his QB position makes you less credible with me. Fan, Rival, Foe, Alumni, Brother, Mom, whatever - this statement is just plain dumb. And Borges is not running RR's offense. This is a major reason for our offensive struggles at the moment...we should be running RR's offense...with a "side helping" of west-coast-hybrid-spread-manball!
October 20th, 2011 at 6:57 PM ^
Your comments are far from rational.
The refs did not take charge of the game. If they would have tossed Gholston after the punch they had a chance to control it.
I expect your coach to take charge of his players. He either won't, or is incapable. He tries to excuse their actions as part of the game. That's not how you play the game. The NFL knows how to do it - immediate ejections. That is also by far the fairist way; the victim team receives the benefit of the ejected player
The multiple personal fouls and their after-play occurance display far more than random football intensity. This is on your coaches and the irrational hatred they have for Michigan. The only thing that compares to this are the hooligan type Ohio State fans. I attribute those fans to the fact that the hooligan types from Columbus do not have a Pro Football team to follow so all their attention is focused on the college game. Fortunately for both UM and MSU is that the hooligan football fans in SE Michigan are Lions fans.
Let me see, first it was your hockey team and now its your football team. This pattern of life-threatening violence has no place in intercollegiate athletics.
Your athletic director needs to quit being a pussy and right your pathetic ship. All you accomplished in that game is embarassing your athletic department from top to bottom.
The statements made by your defensive co-ordinator, coach, and athletic director is an embarassment to your academic institution. Every rational being laughed at their ridiculous explanations, excuses, and need for additional time to review the same videos that were posted all over the internet .
Where is your pathetic University President?
What you need to do is flip the situation that occurred. What would you think if Michigan committed your personal foul offenses during that game. Do you think your stadium would have been incensed?
The Big Ten blew their chance to set the new proper precedent. One game suspension for each act of reckless violence with intent to injure after the play. That adds up to 3 games for Gholston; 1 game for Worthy; 1 game for Rush.
October 20th, 2011 at 8:22 PM ^
what the Sparties call tough football, which I have no question about them playing on both sides of the ball, is that the late hits, arm bar and helmet twisting when our qb is on the ground, blind side punching is just plain pussy-ish, not something a real man would do, kind of like beating your wife. More that enough of this, but had to be said.
October 20th, 2011 at 11:48 PM ^
Maybe this is MIchigan arrogance, but if Hoke gets Michigan up to it's normal standard, he'll win 60% of the games against MSU at a minimum. I am more impressed with this MSU team than the past three that have beat us (which were hardly ass whippings). But I think Michigan has a great chance to win next year because it'll be at home, we'll have another year of experience in our new systems, MSU will be breaking in a new QB, and I think we're going to be real angry and seeking revenge next year. It's early so we'll know more as this season progresses and how next season starts, but I'm expecting the streak to end next year.