My Thoughts on MSU/UM

No one saw the Mouton punch until after the game. And that was Gholston's second personal foul. After he tried to break Lewan's arm and snap Denard's neck. If he thinks that a rivalry game means go out and deliberately disable and maim your opponents, he's one sick bastard. And  Dantonio's refusal to suspend him even after copious video  evidence is what really irks a lot of us. Look, you're rational most of the time, but your green glasses are blinding you here.

I'm not sure I'd describe any of those games as "ass whippings."  2009 went into OT. 2010 turned on Denard's interceptions in the red zone.  Michigan was ten (or whatever) yards away from tying the game this year with six minutes left...To be fair, I don't see Michigan whipping MSU's ass next year either...In sum, I think all this talk of asses and the whipping of asses is overblown.   

Gholston is getting suspended, no matter what anybody on any CFB message board thinks or writes.  Gholston is getting suspended.

And the history of B1G Conference-imposed suspensions only goes back as far as Charlie Weis' complaints about Mouton.  And the history of that affair is that Jim Delany made it up as he went along.  The suspension of Mouton, coming without prior notice on the Thursday before a game was disruptive for Michigan, and was at that time unprecedented.

Now, we've got precedent.  (And Jim Delany's post-hoc notice rules.)  There is no way in hell, that William Gholston is escaping suspension.  The fact that he hasn't been suspended yet tells me that Dantonio and Hollis are gaming things so that hopefully Gholston can play in the Wisconsin game, even if he is supended for Nebraska and/or Minnesota and/or beyond.

Some people want Dantonio to suspend Gholston himself.  I don't like the sound of that, because Dantonio might come out of that looking good.  I'd rather have the Conference drag Gholston off the field, with Dantonio and Hollis and Narduzzi kicking and screaming.

But more than anything, I want the Conference to hand down a much-needed and well deserved supension on Marcus Rush.  Just look at the video.  Nothing more needs to be said.

I don't give a rat's ass about teaching Gholston a lesson, helping him learn from his mistakes, or doing what is good for the MSU program or good for the Conference.  My goal is to create an environment in which State is likely to lose at least two defensive starters.  Just get two L's, handed down by Wisconsin this week and Nebraska next week.

"Scoreboard, baby!" is what we are hearing from Sparty now.  Exactly right.

Is that rational enough for you?

My thoughts on UM-MSU:

MSU has a very good defense. They have a better football team than Michigan.

That doesn't change the fact that UM is the flagship university in this state, MSU is a safety school with the admissions standards of a glorified community college and the result of these facts is an obsessive inferiority complex in the MSU fan/alum community.

#thetruthhurtsinlifemorethanitdoesinfootball

Honestly, had any of the UM commentors given their thoughts on the game today (Thrs after), they would have been negged more than you.

This is how a real coach handles the situation: 

Al Golden

“Quite honestly, I’m embarrassed,” Miami coach Al Golden was quoted as saying in a statement distributed by the school.

“We expect our players to represent our program with class on and off the field, and when they do not, there are consequences,” Golden added in the statement released by Miami.

Mark Dantonio:

"We are just playing the game as hard as we can play it," he said. "This is a physical game. This is a game of reaction. We’re not talking about seconds to react. We’re talking about tenth of seconds to react, and this game is a game of collision, and anybody who does not understand that, you know, hasn't been out there, they haven’t been down there on the sideline watching it up front.

"It’s a tough physical game. That’s the way the game is supposed to be played. That’s the way the game has always been played by the successful teams."

I re-watched the game last night and after the TD to Roundtree, I was thinking what if UM had more of RR's offense on saturday. Man to Man coverage outside and the middle of the field left open by two blitzing linebackers. MSU won in the trenches but that defense was vulnerable to a shredding by a RR offense. Bubble Screens, quick outs, slants ohh my!

Also, I disagree with your notion that Gholston committed those personal fouls because he was jacked up for the rivalry. Those didn't occur on Michigan's first couple of possessions. He had plenty of time to let go of his emotions and worry about playing football.

When you don't win, well... we get Josh Groban.

 In the heat of the game, coaches don't have ESPN replays and they probably don't even know what happened.

 And yet, immediately after the game Dantonio was able to stand up and assert it was a "clean game."  How could he do that if he didn't know what happened?  Wouldn't the correct thing be to stand up and say, "I'd have to look at the films to determine what happened."  Unless, of course, he knew how dirty it was and felt obiligated to try and counteract that.

Seriously who cares what you think even if you consider yourself rational and have posted rational thoughts here before. 

On Whining:  Michigan fans whine just like everyone else.  When Darius Morris told your clowns to GTFO his court, every Sparty I knew texted me that it was classless.  Really?  That was classless?  I find 16 of 20 personal fouls in 5 games and the conduct of Gholston, Rush, and Narduzzi completely classless

No one who has a brain cell at Michigan thinks we lost this game because of dirty play. Everyone knows you have a better team right now    Everyone who has brain cell anywhere knows that the MSU coaches directed, encouraged or implied that it was OK to hurt Michigan players, specifically our QB. I absolutely exudes from the statements your coach and D Coordinator have made and they are backtracking.  Your program may be good right now but you're an embarassment to the ethical standards of the league so you can have your "success"

You will lose by a lot to Wisonsin (who will win the game with pads between the whistles!) and when Gholston and Rush are suspended for next week against NEB, it won't help you win that game either.  You'll have two league losses at that point and will struggle to win the Legends over Neb. and Michigan will get a better bowl bid because no one cares about your program outside of the mitten.   Next year Michigan will struggle again, and could easily lose this game again, and it could be even uglier.

So "Rational Spartan" good luck with your season and your coach.  You can have them because they are classless thugs who did in fact make a statement on Saturday.  I'm glad my mom stopped drinking during her pregnancy so I didn't have to go to State and be associated with what your program and what ultimately stands for.   

Let us lick our wounds in peace. Let's be rational later.

You wrote :

Do I think Dantonio/Narduzzi teach players to injure opponents? <you answered> No.

We have a pattern of MSU taking cheap shots targeting our difference makers, last year was Martin, this year was D_Rob and Lewan.  Martin was not the same player last year after the ankle attack and probably cost us.

The WSJ says that MSU takes a disproportionate number of personnel fouls in this game against us.

Dantonio is a hypocrite who hides his ambition behind a bible.

You guys won the game, but also demonstrated your true colors.  Hopefully this will hurt you on the recruiting trail.  I could not imagine sending my kid to join the posse there at MSU.

"Should he be suspended? Yes.  Should this be the number one story from the game? No. "

Well, too bad.  Gholston's dirty play has made himself the center of attention of the game instead of the victory.

Instead of being able to discuss a win over your rival, now you have to put up with talk of Gholston and his dirty play.

And that is no one's fault but Gholston's and the MSU coaching staff.  Dantonio has a history of players being dirty (Reynolds choking Sorgi) and now it's all in the open.

Enjoy rehashing all this after Gholston is suspended, BTW.

Isn't this like the your fourth post about the Michigan game? I'm sorry but I just can't take you serioiusly since you seem to be taking the "this game has been talked about way too much so let me talk more about it!" route.

I don't know about you but a lot of people on this board understand that msu is our third rival.  OSU is #1, Notre Dame #2, and then comes the state rival game.  Other than this game resulting in a loss it has no other effect(affect?) on me.  Michigan is 6-1 and is still in running for the big 10 championship game and we beat notre dame.  Sucks to lose a game but I'm happy.  Move on....please.

he is encouraging it. Just like if you own a dog and it goes on the rug. If you just ignore it, the dog will not understand that its wrong and will continue to do it. If you discourage it, the dog may stop...there is no neutral ground. A failure to discourage represents encouragement.

since you're so "rational", could you explain this quote:

“That's what we tried to do, 60 minutes of unnecessary roughness." -Narduzzi

WHAT THE FUCK IS UNCLEAR ABOUT THIS SENTENCE? IS HE REALLY GOING TO CLAIM THIS IS A JOKE, OR WAS TAKEN OUT OF CONTEXT? What bullshit. 

When the coaches fire up guys so much that they are running around trying to twist the QB's head off, who do you think should be blamed? Just the player? 

When the coaches react to this crap by claiming it was a "clean game" full of decisions that happen in tenths of a second, who do you think should be blamed? Just the player?

When the coaches take days and days to review two or three plays, clearly dragging their feet in order to try to get a player into a big game at Wisconsin, who do you think should be blamed? Maybe the players wouldn't let the coaches see the game film.

I'm sick of "rational" sparty fans that come out of this and say "Yeah, he should be suspended, but that's not the real story." When your football program reacts to extreme out-of-bounds and dangerous on-field violence like that as if it is no big deal, THAT IS THE FUCKING STORY. 

Calling it a "clean game" doesn't make it so.

Calling yourself rational doesn't make it so.

Go celebrate with your other rational friends. But don't come here and deliver this kind of crap.

/badmood

Do you have a 247sports account?  Did Brandan Kearney really say he was ashamed to be a spartan?

http://michiganstate.247sports.com/Board/93/Red-Cedar-Rumblings-Gholston-future-Nike-Pro-Combat-unis-4970888/1 

is again unnecessary discussion.  He (Spartan fan) wants this to be Michigan fans "whining."  Here we are again giving him exactly what he wants.  As long as this is Michigan fans "whining" it can be something other than indefensible behavior by MSU.

Rational Spartan Fan - We don't care about you, we don't care about Gholston.  We care about the Big Ten Championship.  We have a chance to win it.  You don't.  Deal with it amongst other State fans.

Man, I'm sorry some people on here are acting like assholes to you (I'm looking at you WitchitanWolverine and RedGreene). I don't agree with everything you say, but I think you're far from being a dick about it.

I think that you're being far to easy on Dantonio and Narduzzi, though. Dantonio proclaimed the game to be a 'cleanly played game' and Narduzzi praised the '60 minutes of unnecessary roughness'. There has been no action taken by Dantonio to suspend Gholston for actions that were clearly unnacceptable. I see your point that expecting Dantonio to take Gholston out of the game in self-policing is unrealistic, but they've had five days to review the film now, and there's been no action taken. It should have taken no more than ten minutes to realize how unacceptable Gholston's twisting Denard's helmet was. That they haven't done anything about it is pretty strange. Kirk Cousins I think talked about what a privilege it is to represent your university. Whether non-Michigan fans are noticing or not, I don't think condoning Gholston trying to break the kneck of another person for no other reason but aggresion and the hope of gaining an advantage in a football game represents Michigan State in the best way possible. What Gholston did does NOT happen all the time. NOT everybody kills people, murders people, steals from you, steals from me, whatever, and when people do, coaches need to make sure that they don't do it again.

Plus, how many recaps do you think the UM fan base wants from the same MSU fan?  I think you are a troll.

But the teams with 4 and 5 stars kick your ass. I.E Alabama. We are starting to get those blue chips. So your 2 and 3 star STARS, got dominated last year in the Capital One Bowl against better talent.

1. Agree in general. The only area I think you might be a little off is with your assessment of Dantonio's role in the "aggression" of the MSU players. You took offense when I mentioned Mike Martin getting chopped blocked last  year and said that was not taught. Now, I have no evidence it was, but you have no evidence it wasn't. What we do have is several years in a row, with this latest being the worst, where MSU players do several things that could cause serious injury to our players. Gholston's facemask was the worst (the punch wasn't going to hurt anyone but Gholston) but Rush's body slam of Denard when the ball was gone was bullshit. I don't think he should be suspended. The penalty was called in the game and that is sufficient punishment. But I do think, based on the way MSU has played and Narduzzi's comments that MSU is taught to do dirty things to hurt and or discourage/intimidate Michigan. It wasn't why we lost of course. If MSU wasn't doing those things you probably would have won by more.

2. Totally agree. And that, along with our coaches inability to make adjustments, was the most depressing thing about the game. I knew MSU had a great d line but I thought our o line was better than they showed. We are missing our starting left guard, but still, it was embarrassing. And MSU's o line held up a lot better than I expected it to. Martin didn't allow a lot of push in the middle but you were able to run off tackle pretty easily and that was not surprising but disappointing.

3. I would not say Michigan is going to whoop MSU ever. I remember the games right around the turn of the century when Michigan had great teams and MSU won 2 of 4. MSU always has a skill player or two who are dangerous and Dantonio will keep a great defense and running game going. Now, I think MSU will fall back a little eventually because I don't expect you to keep getting players like Gholston and Lawrence Thomas as Hoke turns up the heat with recruiting, but MSU with Dantonio will remain relevant in the Big Ten. I don't expect you guys to fall off.

4. Agree

5. I don't think we can make it through the rest of the year undefeated but if you could lose to Wisconsin and Nebraska that would certainly make the rest of the year more interesting.

Gholston got away with it.  BiG officials sucked ass on that day i'm not going into every personal foul or ball spotted short to whine.  They sucked.  I watched the tape of every defensive snap over at mgovideo.com and was impressed they even called one hold on MSU. 
MSU cutblocks well to open up holes, their tight ends block.  Your LB's hit holes well, and get off blocks to force cut back lanes.  Michigan will get there, technique takes time.  I don't want to look forward to 2012.  Your right losing RVB and MM will be terrible.  Yet Greg Mattison is a smart coach.  The LB class that comes in could take away spots from people with the right IQ to play the positions needed. Thus help stopping the running game.
Denard is the qb.  I think if we adjusted the play calling a little, Michigan wins the game.  4th and 4 on the 36 which Hoke punted puzzled me.  You go for a fake fg and get it, yet at MSU's 36 on a 4th and 4 you punt. Interesting.  4th and Inches.  Umm we'll skip that play call as well.  Denard could very well be a Percy Harvin 2.0 however the coaching staff sees him as a qb. 
When he fine tunes his mechanics a little more, there will be no more stacking the box.  Up 7 with 5 minutes to go MSU still blitzed endlessly.  Denard can study this tape, next game audible at the line and burn State! 

I think a simpler reason to play Robinson over Gardner is that DR has shown that on his good days he can run a productive offense, and Gardner hasn't shown much of anything yet. I think that "playing for the future" is usually a bad idea because it's defeatist and sends a message to the seniors on the team that they basically don't matter. When you're trying to break a culture of losing, you have to try to maximize the number of wins in the present.

Give Rational MSU Fan credit.  Good post.

Wisconsin will have advanced warning of the garbage play. Their coach hinted at it with his MSU "plays through the whistle" comment in this week's conference call.   State's self-annointed bully on the block persona will only add to Wisconsin's motivation. (As if MSU's db running his mouth about hurting Wilson, Dantonio whining last season about how they should go to the Rose Bowl, last year's defeat wrecking UW's spot in the BCS title game, and the BCS snubbing them this year with a low ranking, wasn't enough.)

I can't see the result being positive for State on Saturday. To put it in the language of the Godly Mark Dantonio: you reap what you sew.

The ref who throw the flag after the ounch but didn't eject him should be suspended for at least one game as well.  That crap isn't acceptable on the football field.

Doesn't it say something about your school when you have to add the word "Rational" to your handle? We could probably come up with a pretty good, short list of schools for which "Rational" is needed: Notre Dame, West Virginia, LSU, Tennessee, and Michigan State. 

I'm pretty sure a Michigan fan could go to any message board just as "MichiganFan" and not have to qualify it with Rational. Just sayin'

Gholston = basketball recruiting

He is dirtier than a dirt sandwich.

Any attempt to "rationalize" or defend his actions is a waste of time. If he played for Michigan I would say the same thing and would be calling for his immediate suspension. Of course, if he played for Michigan, he action would've already been taken on that issue.