Fess up, you REALLY aren't a bama fan.
Fess up, you REALLY aren't a bama fan.
I'm a University of Alabama Grad, Class of 07, and will be completing my masters there this fall. This is deeply personal for me, deeply personal.
Its not breaking news. Been going on for years down there and isn't going to change anytime $oon.
Who said it's breaking news? Simply adding this is something, given further recent events, that needs to be looked into.
Surprising to me that you're an 07 grad. For some reason, I always assumed you were in your 40s or 50s. Not sure why.
I'm guessing it was the hat he used to wear.
I graduated in '01 and I swear that you were my dad's age. Not really sure why I felt that way, maybe it's just the tone and levelheadedness of your posts. Now, I feel really old. Thanks a lot RDT. You're a dick.
That IS pretty sad. The wonderlich isn't the best measure of intellect, but still...
However, having the pleasure of having some Michigan football players in my classes while an undergrad, we didn't have the market cornered on Rhodes scholars on our teams either. Any Michigan fans who get 'holier than thou' re; SEC players need to understand that we have our share of 'Rocks for Jocks 101', or magically pair up the football players with premeds for group projects that account for 50% of the semester grades during Intro Psych (Tim Biakabatuka was 'placed' into our group of 3 premeds)
The student athletes on the football team, for the most part, would not have been able to matriculate with the rest of the general student population if based on academics alone. Hopefully, while there, the AD allows for these kids to get a useful education that will serve them well after their playing days are over.
But they can certainly matriculate the ball down the field.
I attend a mid-major (C-USA) school and have a class with a few basketball players. What pisses me off more than anything is how they always walk in late as hell, never take off their headphones, and play on their iPads all class. Our team won like 8 games or something this year, I don't even know. Do your work, superstar. Somebody else is paying for you to be there.
(this isn't necessarily a reply to you, I just wanted to throw in my 2 cents and some jackwagon broke the thread)
I dont think thats entirely fair to the student athletes at our university. while there will always be outliers, i happened to have some atudent athletes in my courses while at UM (LS&A) and they were on time to class, participating fully, and almost without exception added value to the class discussions. (I for one had a starting michigan football quarterback in one of my classes and small group section, and I can tell you he gave 100% effort, and wasnt a 'rocks for jocks' guy.) some more well known examples of stellar academic student-athletes might be kids like Zoltan and more recently Novak who found success pursuing a prestigious BBA at the ross school.
don't forget, there are outliers within the normal student body as well.
not saying by any means that we have the market corned on rhodes scholars, but at the same time the problem seems significantly worse down in the sec. when was the last time you heard about a topnotch recruit getting turned down by admissions at an SEC school? michigan has done that. and the michigan coaches have in the past stopped pursuing some top notch recruits b/c their academic profile would have a limited at best shot of getting past admissions.
Aside from Juco transfers (where we are stricter than the average FBS school), our admissions standards are no more stringent than those of SEC schools. We will admit any incoming freshman football player who has been approved by the NCAA Clearinghouse, just like 90% of FBS schools. When you talk about "a topnotch recruit getting turned down by admissions," you must be talking about Demar Dorsey, because he's the only example I know of over the past several years. Before you use Dorsey as proof that we have lofty standards, note that he was also rejected by FSU and Louisville, not exactly two elite institutions.
At Michigan, you can pretty much tell whether or not a guy had actual U-M academic credentials based on the school he's enrolled in. I was in LSA and had some football players who were classmates, and they were reasonably bright guys. But they weren't the ones getting in by the skin of their teeth. Those guys are admitted only to Kinesiology.
We'll still love you if you're not...
If you're a moderate and rational thinker, people can't see how you are a fan of the SEC.
I'm still incredulous that my girlfriend (the Auburn alumnus) doesn't think that Cam Newton was paid to play there. Its like a jedi mind trick has been played on her. Seriously.
What makes me a little suspicious about your identity is not that you're a "moderate and rational thinker," but that you don't seem to disagree with Michigan fans on anything.
There are visiting fans here who are fair-minded enough, but they don't buy all our propaganda - as they shouldn't be expected to. I could expect a Michigan fan to make unfair blanket statements about the SEC based on the experience of one player, but not an Alabama fan.
Nobody from The South uses the word "moderate". Only Godless liberals and those nasty Europeans do.
Who use that sort of vocabulary.
They reference Vince Young's score of 6 in the article you posted. Terrel Pryor had a 7, IIRC.
And not only that, but Pryor was Academic All Big Ten. That's nothing short of fraud.
Terrelle is the Aristotle of our generation. Did you read his research paper about research? He broke the whole damn system.
People can keep making fun of Pryor but if you read some of Denard's papers you'd probably stop.
Have you read any of Denard's papers?
My aunt's friend taught one of his classes. He's a very hard worker, but just doesn't have the sort of intelligence to excel in college. But he makes a huge effort, so I think that should make up for it. It's not like he's a guy who is just coasting by because he's a star.
Well I have his signature and his cursive could use some practice.
I bet he could write dugout or bunt; I have reservations about Rizzuto.
Excellent reference, sir
When you can't even explain what your major is and you put "you know what i'm sayin" in every other sentence regularly and receive Bs for that kind of work it's not fair to the other students whose work is gauged the way it should be.
Honestly, Pryor is not an intelligent guy whatsoever. But my Aunt, who is a prof at OSU, had him in one of her classes and she said the kid worked his butt off in her class. She said his reasoning and wording of things was poor sometimes, but he gave full effort in groups and discussions. He also had no problem coming to her with questions or to make sure he understood her lectures. Now, I obviously can't say he was like that for every class, but if he was I totally buy the Academic All Big Ten as legit. He got a B from my Aunt.
So what youre saying is there is a systematic problem including the teachers as well. I'm still calling for the death penalty in that case.
just don't evoke the same feeling as the RDT we all know and love.
Shhhh....the notion that kids should stay for all four years in order to get an education is not a popular idea around here; it just gets you labeled an old crank who wants to deprive innocent kids of their opportunity to make a lot of money as quickly as possible.
If you assert that big time college athletics in the four major sports are heavily populated by kids who don't have the slightest interest in doing anything other than turning pro as soon as possible, and that 95% of all infractions involve getting these kids to commit or to keep them eligible once they enroll, you'll be called a hater or a nut.
Are you suggesting that if Claiborne had simply stayed one more year at LSU, his Wonderlic would be higher?
Frankly, the guy's score suggests that he really didn't belong at college at all.
Don - I have to think that a major factor in some kids leaving is the fact that they have committed violations and don't want it to catch up to them. I mean, Trent Richardson was driving around an 30k suv with 5k rims (this is what I remember it as, not sure if its correct). Yeah that's legit.
I think we also underestimate just how difficult college is, academically speaking, for some of these guys. A person with a Wonderlic of four is supposed to have signficantly below-average intelligence. Asking that guy to survive academically at a major research institution, even with the extra help/tutoring that athletes get, is asking a lot. Maybe LSU was really difficult for Claiborne and he didn't want to keep going to school there.
Yeah, but he was a junior. So its not like he wasn't already faking it for 2 1/2 years. The emperor isn't wearing any clothes here. Which is why the Tpeezy score is disappointing, but worth pointing out. Tressel was doing the same thing at Ohio for his stars.
He didn't have a chance to leave until now. He had to gut it out for 2.5 years. This is the first chance he's had to finally stop going to school and he took it.
Note as well that he was at a point in his schooling where he'd be expected to take upperclass-level courses, which are probably even more difficult for him. NCAA athletes have to make progress toward a degree each semester to stay eligible. You can't just take 100-level courses for four years.
While I am tempted to agree with you Don, I can't help but wonder how many third year engineering students would decline an offer of a multi million dollar yearly salary to return to their cubicle on North Campus for another year. The University is an opportunity for individuals to prepare for a career. I was a classical archaeology student... how is that any more productive than a student majoring in football?
Lol. I'm 2 latin and 2 upper-level arch. classes from a triple major in Classical Arch (graduated with two BS in Biology and Psychology).
That classical archaeology background serves wonders in annoying my parents and spouse when traveling to Europe or any museum with a large classical antiquities department.
If anyone has the access to the data and the time (it is April and spring slump), an interesting project would be to look at student athlete academic scores vs. "successful" teams, such as BCS Bowl Appearances/Wins, NCAA Tournament, National Titles and see if there are any observable trends.
Based on what I'm seeing in this thread and the SEC's (and Ohio's) successes as of the last 10 years, there's likely a strong correlation of poor test scores to bowl wins or National Titles. There may be a few outliers with higher-standard coaching. I think Saban, Miles, Meyer, and Tressel work the loopholes well to reach "success".
You can't compare them to student-athletes as a whole, because there'd be a lot of confounding factors there (like the fact that most sports don't offer professional careers after college). You'd have to compare them to other FBS college football players. It's likely that the differences in academic performance between the rosters of say, Auburn and Minnesota is not large, if it exists at all.
I think you're going to have to enter a witness protection program of some sort. I don't think you can go back to Alabama.
Basing the entire academic reputation of a conference on one player's Wonderlic score is foolish. Every conference (except maybe the Ivies) has a few players that don't belong anywhere near a college if it weren't for their athletic abilities. Don't let anyone see Mario Manningham's score on that test.
But it is far more wide spread in the SEC, and occurs far more regularly.
Why do you assume this? Admissions standards are no higher in any other conference.
Manningham scored a 6. True story.
EDIT: Flamebait'd for telling the truth. Nothing like home cookin'!
Not as if they wouldn't, for the most part, get into a state flagship or other very good school, but the Ivy League's admission rate for recruited athletes is absurdly higher than for the general student population (I've also heard the same about the service academies).
Some of that is because they only recruit good students, but I would bet if you put Harvard's twenty-strong football class into the general pool, you would end up with only five or six being admitted, at the very most.
The Ivies lower their standards for athletes more than most would ever believe. One study found the SAT difference between varsity athletes and the general student population at those schools to be around 300 points. The Ivies maintain a pretense of not caring about sports by not giving athletic scholarships (though they find ways around that), but their admissions rates suggest otherwise. I had a high school classmate who went to Columbia as a recruited athlete, and he was not what you'd think of as a typical Ivy League-bound student in high school.
I read an interesting article a while back written by an Ivy Legue football player. He made the following observation:
If you think you are good enough to be a Movie Star, you can major in acting in college. If you think you are good enough to be an artist, you can major in art in college. If you think you are good enough to be a professional musician, you can major in music in college.
What do all these things have in common? They are all high-risk, high-return professions. Very few people actually succeed in them. Most people never realize those dreams. But you can still major in them and focus on them exclusively in school. You don't have to pretend you are there for another reason.
However, if you think you are good enough to be a professional football player, you can not major in football. You have to pretend you are there for something else.
These were his points, not mine, but I thought they were an interesting perspective coming from an Ivy League athlete.
A cynic like me would say that CFB players, including many of Michigan's, are indeed majoring in football. The pretense that they are there for any other reason is a very thin and almost pointless veil.
It seems to me that Universities should either make them take and pass real classes, or drop the hypocrisy and let them major in football.
There is a significant difference, though.
Acting, painting, playing music etc. are things you could theoretically do for your entire adult life. You can't keep playing football until you're 65. You have to start doing something else when you're in your 30s (if not earlier). It may be in athletes' best interests to be majoring in something entirely different from their sports, to prepare them for their post-athletic lives.
That there are "high risk" majors in existence doesn't justify adding more of them. Maybe there should be fewer of them.
I fail to see this significant difference. Of course you can't keep playing football until you're 65, but it's not like there aren't an ever increasing number of professions in the business that surrounds the major sports (read coaching at all levels, front offices, personal training facilities, etc). That's not to say I dream of my son someday going to Michigan and majoring in "football", but these kids have a fulltime job in the sport of their choice and are then asked to attend classes at a university for which they may or may not have academically qualified if not for athletics. Couldn't they just as easily take classes in the field of their interest while also completing a minimum core curriculum like any other student?
I just think propping up the antequated idea that every one of these players is in school to "get an education" helps support the sham of a system propogated by the NCAA. It's a business these day, plain and simple. Let's stop pretending otherwise. If a kid wants an education in a less risky field out of the process I think that's great. If not, I have no problem with calling a spade and spade.
I know it's been posted before but feels appropriate again. This is the takedown of the NCAA in the Atlantic last Fall: http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2011/10/the-shame-of-college-sports/8643/?single_page=true
They may not think they're in school to get an education, but ultimately, that education will end up being very important to them. How many college football players will earn enough in the NFL to be financially set for life? Football careers are very short and the opportunities are limited. The other careers you mention (like coaching) are also extremely competitive and don't require a degree in the field as it is, so why bother creating a "football" major?
So that athletes who do not have the sort of intelligence to succeed in college can still get a useful education? Are players who are not able to be "book smart" really getting anything out of that education they are currently receiving? Tailoring courses to fit the skills a player would find useful when they are done playing makes sense. Coaching at a high enough level is extremely competitive, but there are tons of high schools and division 3 schools out there that need coaches, too.
My point was not that there is viability to a football major, but that I don't see the difference between football players majoring in football and art majors majoring in art. Here, watch me adapt the end of your argument to an art major (or an acting major, etc): "Art is very competitive and doesn't require a degree in the field as it is, why bother creating an art major?" No one would suppose that there is no benefit in learning art theory or art history, but it's not required to be an artist. I'm not saying I'd be proud of or sign up for a football major, but it's not fair to say there are no career prospects in the increasingly business world of athletics (professional, collegiate, even drifting into high school) by way of comparison to the art or acting worlds.
The underlying theme here though is the value of that nebulous concept that is an "education", which you paternalistically state they will some day appreciate. Going to an amazing university like Michigan provides you with opportunity and that's it. A degree doesn't guarantee you had a good education, or really even any education. It only means you completed the requirements to graduate. It certainly doesn't guarantee you're prepared for any career at all. It's up to the student to commit and make the most of things. The same applies to athletes. Graduating only means they did the bare minimum and now have a degree which may or may not provide any practical skills for their eventual livelihood. They did all of this while balancing their other full-time job. I fully support any athlete who wants a degree in a subject outside of athletics and works for it. I think it's an amazing opportunity that these kids have. I don't support a system which shepards kids through it in the name of education so that they can define them as student-athletes and financially exploit their atheltic skill.
How do you get a 4? Don't you get three for spelling your name right.
Technically that's up to the schools themselves to choose what to offer. This is a perception game, where fairness doesn't always count as much as it should. Speaking just from a perception standpoint, If Michigan announced a Professional Athletics major tomorrow, I think it would look like we're creating a major to excuse taking dumb jocks, and the prestige of the university would take a hit.
What can change that perception would be a group of schools beyond reproach forming those programs simultaneously. What would influence them to do so, and where they'd get the money to pay for it, I don't know.
The UM School for Music, Theater and Dance was formed at about the same time as the football team, at a time when studying music and theater pretty much meant a career in that. Remember they didn't even have radio yet; theater troops (and, to our great shame, minstrel groups) ruled entertainment of the day, and there were perhaps as many of them per capita as there are movie theaters. Starting a new college or major when only a small % will spend as much as 5 years doing that professionally is way harder to do than justifying the continuity of a 120-year-old college within your university that doesn't put near as many of its graduates into professions as it used to, but still maintains the prestige of the university with those who graduate from it.
Also I should mention my good friend and former college roommate was a School of Music student, and he still had to take tons of "regular" classes. A dumb floutist wouldn't be able to hack it at Michigan any better than a dumb safety.
For a moment I thought this was going to be rant about how all southern academics are horrible, and I was going to be very angry. As a native Georgian, and as someone who has been in his fair share of southern schools (teaching and studying) both at the undergrad and grad level, I get a little upset when I read people bashing the academics in the south.
Granted, GT is not in the SEC, but it's close enough to make people give it the georgraphic assumption. When the thread was running around a few weeks ago about them joing the BIG, a majority of the comment section was about how they'd never make it academically. I'm sorry, buy I'd put GT up against many a BIG schools any day. The assumption of stupidity becomes greater when you move focus to an SEC school. And frankly, it's not true.
That being said, the athletic standards *are* an issue. It needs to be fixed. But the problem itself does not inherently show that the university as a whole is poor quality. It's merely an example of the pervasive power that the athletic departments truly have, and truly, THAT is the issue that needs to be addressed. Once it is, a lot of other things will fall in line.
I should've corrected myself in that aspect. The Universities are quality, it's the lack of emphasis on academics in the athletic sector (namely football) that trouble me.
No worries. It wasn't really directed at you, just an issue I have in general. I've been holding it in for a while, to be honest. It gets a little old sometimes.
Also: How is grad life at Alabama? I looked at there for a Phd program, but I really haven't been able to make up my mind on it. Right now I'm leaning towards A&M, but a lot of it has to do with the cheap cost of education here (at least for me).
The one and done's may not even go to class the second half of their freshman year. At least in football, they have to pretend for 3 years.
The universities in the SEC are quality. I attend the business school at the university of georgia and it is one of the better schools in the nation. That being said I have taken basic classes with football players and they have not been the sharpest.....or present players, It is just not important to the players or the faculty.
wow, 4 is astonishingly bad... i know the wonderlic isn't hyperaccurate, but does anyone know what IQ a score of 4 is supposed to represent (i know 21 is average [IQ of 100])
According to the president of Wonderlic Inc:
"A score of 10 is literacy, that's about all we can say"
with this rant. Frankly, it plays well to this audience because we have collectively said the same thing for years.
How do your observations play out when you talk to your classmates and friends in SEC country? I have a number of friends who attended Auburn, Georgia, and Florida. They are hard core SEC football fans, but also very intelligent and accomplished professionals. However, they rarely acknowledge the "football factory" abuse of athletes in the SEC.
Another reason to like RollDamnTide. He is a Bama grad yet he can still see that there are problems with Bama... imagine that. This board is full of the exact opposite type people and it is frustrating. You can be a fan and still call into question some issues with the University or Athletic Dept.
This should have been negged already. Dissent will not be tolerated.
This is even funnier with Christian Bale as your av
anyone else find it ironic that the OP spelled wonderlic wrong?
mmmmm....internet spelling police to the rescue.
Because there has been a shift from the universities looking at these young men as individuals and doing what's best for them vs. looking at them as an asset for the university to better it's image and make it a profit.
To be fair, the Wonderlich is an aptitude test. Aptitude is not quite the same as intelligence, though they are related. The bigger question is why the NFL continues to give this test. People who score low can do well in the NFL while people who score highly can flame out.
I can see the timing aspect could prevent some people from getting a high score.
However, after taking some of the practice Wonderlic exams, anyone with that low of a score should not even sniff a high school diploma.
Is the Wonderlic available on-line? I seriously want to let my 5 year old daughter try it and see if she can score more than a four. I'm pretty sure I already know the answer.
There are sample questions out there if you google it -- I don't know about a whole test, but you could easily find 15 or 20 wonderlic questions, and then extrapolate her score.
We give the Wonderlic to all prospective applicants in my firm. I have requested a copy of the test and will post the first four or five questions later today so everybody can see just how "difficult" these are.
A four means that Claiborne is roughly as intellegent as a run of the mill Dolphin. Not one of the smart Flipper-type Dolphins (they would get a six or seven easy on the test) but an average one.
to post the test question verbatim as I'm sure it is copyrighted.
Just summarize it and we'll take your word for it.
From the World Wide Leader, sample test!
See if you can get a 4, Mr Smary Pantz!!!!!!!!!!
The only explanation for this is Mo must have some sort of learning disability. If that's the case then I feel bad that everyone found out about it this way
If he doesn't have a learning disability then I think we really do need to question if Mo can read, or do basic mathematics. Furthermore, how in the hell did he stay eligible in college for 3 years?
Seriously though, a 4? I mean for the love of God you have to try to be that stupid
Honestly, while I think academics in athletics is a huge issue, using the Wonderlic to prove that is flawed. My understanding is they do not provide accommodation for disabilities like dyslexia. With a score of 4, you have to think there's something else at play here.
Someone broke the thread. :(
I was thinking along a similar line. The extremely low scores could be due to a learning disability. Then again, maybe some of the athletes take a look, realize they're going to do poorly anyway, and just wing it, not putting forth any effort at all. Unless an athlete is marginal and might not make the cut anyway, a low score isn't going to deter a team from taking a chance on someone who's a great athlete.
Excuses, excuses. He seems to have done OK reading playbooks and running the plays in the right direction.
I don't think he is dumb or disabled at all. I think he is disinterested, and therefore ignorant, in topics other than football. And even though he is at a "University", nobody bothers to make him learn anything other than football.
He seems to have done OK reading playbooks and running the plays in the right direction.
That has nothing to do with whether he has a learning disability.
And I just found this.
When Claiborne came out of high school, the schools that recruited him knew he had a learning disability. I don’t know much about his disability other than it has to do with reading. Everyone I have talked to tells me that Claiborne has great character and is a great kid. He knows and understands his disability and uses all the resources that LSU has available to control it and to help him get by in the classroom. When it comes to football he puts in extra time to learn and understand his assignments and it is not a problem. Will he need reps? Probably, but no more than the usual rookie would need. In saying that, Claiborne’s test score was NOT a true indicator of his intelligence. He can and does learn.
Where is that quote from?
EDIT: I found it, it's a NFP article, and it doesn't cite any sources or information. AND it talks about how players are prepped for the test now and have taken it several times before they actually have the "real" Wonderlic exam, with some guys' scores jumping by as much as 20 points.
So I'm pretty sure the article contradicts itself and does nothing to prove that Claiborne is literate or competent off the football field, which is what the issue is here. It's obvious that he can play football...can he read a book? Can he keep track of his finances? Does he have any future post-NFL?
You've missed RDT's point entirely, I think. The fact that he went to college for three years and still can't do better than a four is alarming, and the SEC is notorious for producing players that would have trouble comprehending the plotline of Dora the Exlporer.
If he does have a learning disability that makes him functionally illiterate, that doesn't make him unintelligent. And no amount of practice tests will help if he's not given the accommodations needed to take the test. If this test were administered anywhere else, they would be required by law to provide that accommodation, but the NFL does not. Universities do provide that accommodation, so to just assume that he didn't get through three years of college on his own merits (with the help provided similar to what would be provided to a deaf student) is pretty unfair.
That makes a HUGE difference.
What is it that you think constitutes a mental disability? Do you have this image of 5 year old kids perpetually seizing in a white padded room? Because, as it turns out, mentally disabled people are still capable of doing things. Even following a receiver around, believe it or not.
SEC really doesn't care about the well being of their athletes. BTW, are you going to be doing your recruiting updates still rolldamntide? If not, on the board, how about an email list?
The only path to the NFL goes through college, not even community college it seems. This and schools drive for money and wins seems to be a problem. This means there will always be kids in major colleges who have no business being there. The other 3 major team sports at least have some path to their leagues for kids who don't belong or don't want to go to college.
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if I remember correctly, former Michigan TE Bennie Joppru scored 30/30 a few years ago. Now, based on the sample questions I have seen, they are pretty easy--but 30/30 is still impressive, you would think most people would misread a question or two or have a gap in their education where they missed one. Guy could play too.
"The academic support at Ohio State, there is no way you can fail. Even if you're giving mimimal effort there is no way you can fail"
unfortunate but true.....for several schools
Everyone just try the online practice Wonderlic test. I can see how the stress of the test, along with the time crunch, can cause someone to do poorly. This is however no excuse for a 4/50. Can Newton got a 21, and we all know he didn't go to school for school.
My favorite quote from the comments in the article:
"It’s LSU, the valedictorian got a 7."
Don't they give you 3 points for spelling your name right? How do you only get 4 points?
wonderlic test on my droid. It was timed. My connection to the internet was slow so when I submitted answers it took 7-10 seconds or so before I could see the next question. Also the left 1/3 of each question was cut off the screen on my phone. I still scored a 12.
Read the same story this morning. Impressive and sad. I took a sample test this morning to see the questions and believe that most of the problems are pre-college level questions, middle school or high school at best.
Which number is smallest amount?
High school? I think not. If I'm an LSU alum, I'm embarrassed.
The dude was probably just high as fuck when he took it. No biggie
Yeah, I'm not buying it. Even stoners know to put a condom full of piss in their pants when they have to take a urine test. So, I would think you might be a little clear minded when taking a test that determines how many millions you get. He just dumb.
considering the bucs (my team) are the likely takers for claiborne's services, this does concern me a little, but not much. as long as he has common sense, can keep his ass out of trouble, and become a shut-down corner, i don't care what he gets on the wonderlic. just play football, and what you do after that career is over is not my concern.
This was the best I could find with a quick search. It isn't the full 50 questions but is adjusted accordingly. http://www.efplfp.stealingisgood.com/wpt.html
These are typical questions on the test? Man, my dog could score better than a 4 on this.
"a score of at least 10 points suggests the person is literate."
this is sad... just further evidence that college athletes are no longer student athletes
In fairness, Greg McElroy (Alabama) and Ben Watson (Georgia) scored in the 40's on the Wonderlic, and they're both SEC products.
Never thought I'd see this post from a Bama fan but it's spot on. It's something that's not just frustrating from a we need to compete with them standpoint but from a standpoint of someone who genuinely cares about the fate of student athletes. I guess there's always the Derrick Rose argument that test scores don't reflect these guys skills in their craft, but dammit I want better for the future lol
SCHOOL EXCEPT CLASSES equals the SEC. Information on the 2010 Auburn team is starting to surface. Wait until everything comes out. The SEC is full of scum coaches who recruit functional illiterates. Do you really think that many of the Alabama football players know where a classroom is outside of the football complex. Remember, they did not go to Alabama to PLAY SCHOOL...Ya know....