Why not both?
Penn State
Many said that Penn State did not meet Geographically either.
consider yourselves lucky I live with SEC fans daily......
They don't quite match, but
They don't quite match, but you're nuts if you're equating Penn State's lack of geographical fit with Texas's. At least Penn State is a northern school. And they're closer to Michigan, Ohio State, etc. than Iowa and Minnesota are. Texas would instantly become the furthest school from each and every other Big Ten school.
"We've beaten Michigan the last four years. So where's the threat?"
- Mark Dantonio
Blogging the Virginia Cavaliers at http://fromoldvirginia.blogspot.com/<
True, but for
True, but for Iowa/Minnesota/Wisconsin its not that different that having to travel to PSU.
Still further - in Iowa's
Still further - in Iowa's case by a couple hundred miles, in Wisconsin's case by nearly 500.
And it's a hell of a lot worse vice versa: distance to Madison from State College is half the distance from State College to Austin.
"We've beaten Michigan the last four years. So where's the threat?"
- Mark Dantonio
Blogging the Virginia Cavaliers at http://fromoldvirginia.blogspot.com/<
You ever been to State
You ever been to State College? It's not that hard. It's like 15 miles off I-80 and freeway all the way.
"We've beaten Michigan the last four years. So where's the threat?"
- Mark Dantonio
Blogging the Virginia Cavaliers at http://fromoldvirginia.blogspot.com/<
And teams would fly into
And teams would fly into Pittsburgh.....why?
You know State College has an airport, right?
Edit: Here, for your edification:
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/BTA156/history/20100212/2155Z/KLAN/KUNV
A Friday evening flight lasting all of 56 minutes from Lansing to University Park Airport. MSU played PSU in basketball on Saturday.
"We've beaten Michigan the last four years. So where's the threat?"
- Mark Dantonio
Blogging the Virginia Cavaliers at http://fromoldvirginia.blogspot.com/<
To hell
with Notre Dame
All right Lemmings. Bring the heat.
Dinosaur Talk
That quote is as old as Phyllis Diller and played out more than Paris Hilton's private parts jokes, but it definitely applies here.
Notre Dame has never gotten over their hatred of Fritz Crisler and Fielding Yost, and they will never join the Big Ten unless Michigan opts out.
Texas is a great choice. I have always favored Nebraska. Pitt, Rutgers, and Syracuse make me barf.
Here's a real good read by a guy who thinks outside the box. I think you'll all enjoy it:
http://frankthetank.wordpress.com/2009/12/27/the-big-ten-expansion-index...
The only thing that really matters is sex.
Pretty good...
...but his love of Syracuse is completely illogical, especially coming from someone who claims to, "...want the best for the Big Ten..."
Realistically, the only candidate significantly less attractive than Syracuse is Iowa State.
"Stats are for losers. The final score is for winners." -Bill Belichick
Rutgers. Way less
Rutgers. Way less attractive, IMO, because I think their ability to make the NYC market care about the Big Ten is way overblown.
The problem with Syracuse is that I think they'd be much less likely to come than most schools. They were all set to join the ACC, yes, but the ACC plays elite-level lacrosse.
"We've beaten Michigan the last four years. So where's the threat?"
- Mark Dantonio
Blogging the Virginia Cavaliers at http://fromoldvirginia.blogspot.com/<
If we could pull a Texas/other big name school
that would be awesome, at that point you could finally get all of the big ten teams to stop playing Notre Dame and leave them to struggle to fill a halfway decent schedule.
I don't care who wins, as long as it's Michigan.....
I'd rather have Texas simply
I'd rather have Texas simply because they are prominent across a variety of sports, but geographically it would be tough. ND makes more sense for the region, but they would be an immense prima-donna with little recent success to back it up. If I'm the Big 10, I'd rather put up with the headaches associated with Texas than the mediocrity that follows ND.
Geographically
Is out the wondow in today's world. Economies aside, if you look at the Big East, they go from Connecticut to South Florida. The Pac Ten from Warshington to Arizona. That's a whol lotta miles.
The money that Texas' addition to the Big Ten would bring would far outweigh any thoughts of Geography. We MUST think outside the FanBox here.
The Big 12 is not nearly a stable conference--and not nearly as stable as the Big Ten.
The distance is 1164 miles from Detroit to Austin. 1068 miles from Columbus to Austin.
In contrast, 963 miles from Tempe (ASU) to Pullman, WA (WSU) of the Pac Ten.
The only thing that really matters is sex.
Double post.
Double post.
Yes, but
When have fans ever been considered in these decisions? Fans will make do. It's not like the average fan these days can really afford to drive from Lansing to Ann Arbor and shell out the four to five hundred dollars that a day for three or four would cost to attend a game.
I believe Notre Dame would accomplish everything a Texas addition would, and yes, be cheaper for fans to get to and from. But they aren't coming, and everyone else (except possibly Nebraska) pretty much represents a status quo move that would bore the rest of the country to tears, not increase the TV footprint (New York doesn't give a shit about Rutgers or Syracuse), and do nothing but add more mediocrity to a conference that is fairly heavily saddled with it already.
The only thing that really matters is sex.
Travel for the team, coaches,
Travel for the team, coaches, etc would of course not be an issue. However, when you are talking about a school whose fans travel as well as Texas' does, it becomes a real issue. Instead of driving to Texas A&M, Oklahoma et. al., now they have to fly to Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania. Distance is still an issue, especially when talking about a school whose identity is in part associated with the amount of fans that travel to away games.
Unstable?
The Big 12 is not nearly a stable conference--and not nearly as stable as the Big Ten.
Do you have a source or more detailed explanation for this assertion?
If only Coach Mo hadn't gotten so drunk.
Younger, worse-off
Younger, worse-off academically, and less profitable. Plus some of the northern schools in the Big Twelve are unhappy with the lack of revenue sharing and the perceived (and probably true) dominance of the conference by the Texas schools and Oklahoma.
As far as younger goes,
As far as younger goes, getting more stable each year. A generation of fans has now grown up thinking of Texas as a Big 12 team, not a SWC team. And academics has nothing to do with stability, or the SEC would have collapsed twenty years ago.
"We've beaten Michigan the last four years. So where's the threat?"
- Mark Dantonio
Blogging the Virginia Cavaliers at http://fromoldvirginia.blogspot.com/<
Instability
Missouri and Colorado both want out. If the Big Ten asks, Missouri is GONE. Then Colorado is GONE. Then what do you have? Two of the biggest three markets would be gone.
of course, if the bIg Ten chickens out and invites Pitt, all this might be for naught, but I think the Big Ten has bigger fish to fry than backwater Syracuse and Joe Pa's lil red-headed stepchild in Pittsburgh.
The only thing that really matters is sex.
Academics in that the faculty
Academics in that the faculty and university would be open to better themselves academically as opposed to staying where they are. Do you think that Vanderbilt would leave the SEC for the Big Ten because of academics? Auburn and Ole Miss would not.
I say take notre dame...
I say take notre dame... There is a reason their names keep coming up in expansion talks even though they have no interest. And that is because they are an obvious fit. I just like the identity of the midwest in the Big Ten and Notre Dame would add to that.
Robinson also packed snow into a plastic bag for his return flight.
"Melted on the plane," he said.
Notre Dame
The reasons ND keeps coming up in expansion talks is because they are the very obvious choice.
However, they just didn't decide not to join, they slammed any idea of becomming a Big Ten member last time they were invited. And are they any less arrogant about it now? Michigan just signed a contract to play them for the next century. They play MSU and Purdue every year. They play USC every year. There simply is no incentive for ND to join--and if they can get back to any semblance of their past selves, they'll be cashing regular $12-14 million paychecks from the BCS bowl fiasco and keeping it all to themselves.
And they'll always have their own TV contract. The minute NBC opts out (and why would they?), ESPN will snatch them up as part of their ongoing effort to control the world. Yes, ND makes less than they would as part of the Big Ten (and the Big Ten would become more marketable with them--increasing money), but they seem to be very shortsighted on this one and the time is now or never. I don't see them joining the Big Ten.
Now, one idea that could be possible is the Big Ten has floated this 12-18 month thing as a way of saying to ND that the rubber is about to meet the road, and it looks like there is no shortage of colleges waiting to jump. Force their hand a bit more, so to speak.
But I see notre Dame as happy with their position--albeit somewhat delusional--and also happy as a cultural icon. They won't say yes.
It's time to move on, and the Big Ten should shock the world and offer Texas. It's a no lose. There will be no public invite unless they KNOW there will be an acceptance of the ring.
The only thing that really matters is sex.
While I agree with most of what you wrote
The one part that is incorrect is the BCS money. They now can only accept what any other team can take. In the grand scheme they technically *could* make more since they would not split it within a conference, but on the other hand, the revenue sharing should be more, especially if two Big 10 teams go to a BCS bowl, which happens somewhat frequently.
Texas
If we bring A&M and OU with them. That'd be a 14 team super conference to end all conferences. A&M might suck at football but their non-football teams are very good and translate well into the Big Ten getting top points in the Directors Cup. I posed this to a few UT and A&M alums and they all liked (those two groups NEVER agree on anything). With the divisions split up in a way such that the 4 closest schools to DFW (a good average for the three schools) would join OU, UT and A&M. So - Iowa, Illinois, Purdue, Indiana, OU, UT, A&M in the South or whatever you want to call it and OSU, UM, MSU, PSU, UW, Northwestern and Minnesota in the North. Football wise you it might be a little heavy on the north side of things but basketball wise it's heavy on the south side of things. You'd have 6 division games, 1 guaranteed rivalry and 1 rotating game and 4 non-conference or you could have 2 guaranteed games, 1 rotating and 3 non-conference. Either way I like it.
If we can't get OU & A&M to go with we might as well go w/ ND because having the 1 outlier in Texas just doesn't make any sense.
OU isn't in the AAU
All teams in the Big10 are in the AAU. While Texas and A&M meet this criteria, OU does not. Unless something happens, or this is no longer a requirement for membership, OU will not be joining the Big10.
Like a blind man at an orgy, I was going to have to feel my way through
Also
ND is also not in the AAU, and would require 3/4 of the member universities to accept them. This has been said to be a big hurdle to their joining the conference. Schools that have been tossed out there and are in the AAU include Maryland, Mizzou, Nebraska, Rutgers, Pitt, Syracuse, UT and A&M.
Like a blind man at an orgy, I was going to have to feel my way through
Use talks with Texas to give
Use talks with Texas to give an ultimatum to ND. Hopefully, ND coalesces and becomes the 12th team.
Adding Texas to the Big Ten would be a bad move, IME. They're the big shots of the Big 12, and they'd want similar status here. They don't want to share the stage with us, OSU, and Penn State, especially considering that they'd be fighting for the 2nd BCS spot.
I don't understand how ND
I don't understand how ND would feel pressure at all, one way or the other. a B10 with 10, 11, 12 or 16 teams doesn't differentially affect them in any way that i can see.
Harvard: The MICHIGAN of the East
We're not arrogant, we're just better.
Texas needs to stay out of
Texas needs to stay out of the Big Ten.
Didn't alot of people say PSU would dominate the Big Ten too?
Texas is good, but playing at the Big House, Horseshoe, Camp Randall, and Happy Valley is a little different than playing AM, and Oklahoma State and Oklahoma in Dallas every year.
Different...how?
In terms of travel distance? Home field/crowd advantage? Quality of the cheerleaders and/or co-eds?
If only Coach Mo hadn't gotten so drunk.
He's saying that it is much
He's saying that it is much harder to play in the 'Shoe, Happy Valley, Camp Randall, the Big House etc. but A&M, and Nebraska are difficult to play at also.
In terms of I'd love to see
In terms of I'd love to see them freeze on their October/November road games up to Madison, Minneapolis, or Ann Arbor.
Ehh it can be pretty cold in
Ehh it can be pretty cold in the Big Twelve North during those months too.
Personally I think Texas
Personally I think Texas should be added and the conferences that dominate college football should stop giving benefits to Notre Dame, treat them like any other independent and therefore force them to ultimately join the Big East.
Texas should come, and as for geographical sense, Boston College plays Miami, Washington plays Arizona, USF plays Syracuse, and on and on and on. Distance is pretty much a non-factor.
NOtre dame
ND doesn't belong in the Big Ten. We have only one private school in the Big Ten - Northwestern, and they're non-religious. ND, on the other hand, is a private, religious school. Maybe I just have a different impression of the conference, but I don't think that a religious school belongs in the Big Ten.
Texas might be far away, but I'd love to see them join. It's a solid school academically, with powerful sports programs. In my ideal world, we poach UT, Neb and OU...then split into a 7/7 format.
neg why?
Why the negative points? Feel free to show yourself. At least I voiced an opinion openly.
I dont understand either,
I have the same feeling about Notre Dame as you. But, if they wanna join, I'm not gonna be TOO upset.
"Conserve your precious hatred for the game."- Apu
I think
you may have been negged because your argument that ND shouldn't join holds no weight. The first point in your argument is that the Big Ten is a conference with just one private school. What does this mean? Do you want to keep the private-to-public ratio the same? Do you think that the number of private schools should only be 1 per conference? Also, you argue that ND is religious. So what? Why doesn't a religious school belong? I think people on this board value opinions, yes, but well-supported and logical ones.
Everywhere you go, go poo.
It's illogical if logical troubles you
My argument holds no weight???
A religious school doesn't belong in the Big Ten. You could always state why you disagree, but merely attacking my point as having "no weight" is bullshit.
Why doesn't a religious school belong? Because no other school in the conference is a religious school. That makes it not-like-the-others...Every argument for or against any school involves "similarity" or lack thereof.
Some folks say Texas doesn't fit because it's geographically dissimilar, others say certain schools' rivaries aren't similar, some school are service academies, other schools academics aren't similar, etc. You might not agree, but my point about religious schools holds as much weight as any other argument that one school or another is not similar enough to join the Big Ten.
Your response...holds no weight.
No.
No no no no
No.
No no no no no.
Geographically dissimilar means something: travel costs.
Academically dissimilar means something: Presidents care about this.
Lots of schools in the Big Ten aren't like any other. Northwestern is the only private school. Should we kick them out?
If Morgan State tried to join the Big Ten, and the Big Ten rejected them and said the reason for this was because the Big Ten doesn't allow black schools, the Big Ten would be roasted over the coals and rightfully so. That has nothing to do with the practical reasons (revenue, strength of athletics, strength of academics, etc.)
Your response not only holds no weight, it's also discriminatory.
"We've beaten Michigan the last four years. So where's the threat?"
- Mark Dantonio
Blogging the Virginia Cavaliers at http://fromoldvirginia.blogspot.com/<
public schools aren't religious
Except for the NW exception, the Big Ten is public. Religious schools are nothing like public schools. We have a cool separation of church/state in the U.S., so that one religion can't be favored over others. That's why we don't have public religious schools. I like that openness and think that's the way the Big Ten should remain. Presidents (university and politically) care a lot about church/state separation...maybe just as much as geography. Religious freedom is a bit more important to some than "travel costs".
My response is the OPPOSITE of discriminatory. I want a Big Ten with schools open to all, not one which favors one religion over others...but at least you presented an argument (even if it was a really bad one).
RespectThe University of
Respect
The University of Notre Dame builds an atmosphere of trust among its students, faculty, and staff. Although unwavering in its Catholicism, the University requires no particular belief of its community members and asks only that all be willing to appreciate and nurture the University’s mission.
Honestly, you can't be serious: "I want a Big Ten open to all, therefore no religious schools allowed." Yes, it's discriminatory, not to mention contrary and borderline hypocritical. Notre Dame, as with 99.9% of religiously-operated schools in the country, doesn't discriminate based on religious affiliation or require any kind of religious participation any more than the public schools do. Guess what: they don't even ask your religious affiliation on the application form. You can be Muslim, atheist, or sun-worshipping and go to Notre Dame. You have just as much religious freedom at Notre Dame as at Michigan.
Given this, the only possible remaining religious reason for you to want Notre Dame out of the Big Ten is an exclusionary and discriminatory one. You're not pro-religious freedom, you're anti-religion.
P.S.: The motto of the University of Wisconsin is, "God, our Light", and Northwestern's is a verse from the King James Bible.
P.P.S.: Given that the Big Ten has already tried to invite Notre Dame, I don't think the university presidents care about the school's religious affiliation like you claim they do.
"We've beaten Michigan the last four years. So where's the threat?"
- Mark Dantonio
Blogging the Virginia Cavaliers at http://fromoldvirginia.blogspot.com/<
clueless
Of course, ND will take students from any religion (if they pay the tuition)...That isn't the point (or even close to it). I won't get into the endless history our nation has putting a line (albeit blurred by the far right wing) between church and state. I also won't get into the battles to keep religion from pushing into public schools. For example, no public school could EVER write that it is "unwavering in its Catholicism". The State cannot "establish" a religion. Next time, read what you quote...and remember that your argument looks pretty weak when your quote proves my point.
Frankly, if the Big Ten were starting from scratch, I'd eliminate NW because they are private and all else are public. I would not consider ND because it's private and religious.
I'm guessing that you follow a majority faith, or else you wouldn't be so amazingly clueless as to think that Notre Dame and Michigan are equals in terms of religious freedom. When Jesus is hanging all over the walls (and even over an end zone), it doesn't give such a "everyone welcome" feeling. It's 100% their right to educate in that manner, but that has nothing to do with religious freedom.
I've attended public and private schools; religious and non...religious schools, by their very nature...favor one religion over others. That's just the way it is. Nothing against ND, and I could care less if the Big Ten already invited them, it's my well-founded and clearly reasoned opinion that a religious school does not belong in the Big Ten any more than a service academy would.
no just no
Current Smug rating: "lethal"
And what's special about the
And what's special about the Big Ten that has turned you into an anti-religion zealot? What threat to you do they pose? Is your religious freedom impaired in any way by their Catholicism?
Is Texas less religiously free because they associate with Baylor? Is Florida State less religiously free because they associate with Boston College and Wake Forest? Do SMU, TCU, and BYU leave a religious stain on their conferences? You know, we have laws in this country that prevent you from discriminating against religion. They're not here to to protect your sensitive ass from religion, they're here to protect religion from people like you who would deny membership for religious reasons.
So why is the Big Ten special? You might wish Northwestern away, but they're here. You might wish U of C away, since they're a private school (and were inconveniently founded by the Baptists) but you can't - there they are, associating with the Big Ten. The conference wasn't founded on some bedrock principle of public schools only, it just happened that way, and if you want freedom from religion, I suggest you move to North Korea.
"We've beaten Michigan the last four years. So where's the threat?"
- Mark Dantonio
Blogging the Virginia Cavaliers at http://fromoldvirginia.blogspot.com/<
laws are really lawie
Look, I don't have the time or energy to explain the law/Constitution to you. Other than to note that you seem to be 100% clueless as to the Establishment Clause of the Constitution, I'll just direct you to bother someone else with your ignorance.
Why you can't seem to understand that the ENTIRE DISCUSSION is about what school are SIMILAR enough to join the Big Ten is beyond me. For me, public schooling is a common theme. Others see other important similar/dissimilar traits. I don't "wish" NW away, and don't make up things I didn't say. That's almost as stupid as your North Korea comment, Ms. Palin.
I've gotta say, though, when arguing about the Catholic Church, you should avoid comments like "sensitive ass". Anyway, it's getting really tiring hearing about the woes of the oppressed majority.
As a lawyer, I've learned not to argue with idiots or drunks...and it's a bit early for you to be drinking. All the best.
Frankly, if the Big Ten were
Frankly, if the Big Ten were starting from scratch, I'd eliminate NW because they are private and all else are public.
I don't "wish" NW away, and don't make up things I didn't say.
Do you pretend you didn't say things in the courtroom, too?
Anyway, as I've managed to reduce your argument to four paragraphs of gibbering personal insults, you don't seem to have anything worthwhile left to say. I can't blame you for that, as you didn't start with much to begin with. When the facts on your side, pound the facts; when the law is on your side, pound the law; when neither is on your side, pound the table; isn't that how it goes? Your table has taken such a beating you've forgotten to deny or refute anything I've said except for the part about wishing Northwestern away - which was a lie.
"We've beaten Michigan the last four years. So where's the threat?"
- Mark Dantonio
Blogging the Virginia Cavaliers at http://fromoldvirginia.blogspot.com/<
Why not both?
But out of purely geographical concerns, I'd want Notre Dame. I like symmetry and putting things where they belong and Texas is just so out of whack from traditional Big Ten locales, it just doesn't sit right to me. Plus we'd potentially get back to scheduling some interesting OOC opponents since the infinite scheduling agreement with ND would have to go out the window.
"We've beaten Michigan the last four years. So where's the threat?"
- Mark Dantonio
Blogging the Virginia Cavaliers at http://fromoldvirginia.blogspot.com/<