MSU w/o Narduzzi = Iowa?
** disclaimer - Rutgers week leads to other thoughts ** ** No talking MSU until we beat MSU, I know, I know.....***
Many here speculated that MSU would suffer without Narduzzi. When that didn't immediately happen, people made a quick conclusion that the key to the defense was really Dantonio.
However, the effect of a coach leaving takes a while (see Stanford post-Harbaugh).
Pat Narduzzi gave MSU elites defenses year after year from 2011-2014. They were a top level defense. It carried a middling, slow-developing conventional offense. It won them B10 Championships.
But, each year the MSU defense has gotten worse (as players coached up from Narduzzi have cycled through).
2013= #2 Total D; 2014 = #8 in TD; 2015 = #26 TD; 2016 = #30 TD so far.
2013 = #3 Scoring D; 2014 = #21 SD; 2015 = #24 SD; 2016 = #51 SD so far.
They are decidely an okay/mediocre defense now.
Concerns about their QB here and in the press are the wrong focus. Aside from Cousins, their QB play has not been great over the years. I know Cook had a good year last year, but a lot of that can be attributed to being bailed out by Burbridge.
From 2012-2015 MSU had a passing offense that ranked in about the 70s nationally on average EACH YEAR. QB play is not the reason they have fallen off.
Kirk Ferentz had some great years, especially early in his tenure. He won a couple B10 Championships and division championships. Iowa is always a "solidly-coached" team that has the potential to beat you, but they don't usually scare anyone.
MSU without Narduzzi looks a lot like Iowa City. (Of course with a chip aimed squarely at AA.)
EDIT: Its been a few years of this trend people. This is not based off 4 games!
October 4th, 2016 at 9:34 AM ^
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October 4th, 2016 at 2:47 PM ^
October 4th, 2016 at 9:37 AM ^
October 4th, 2016 at 9:39 AM ^
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October 4th, 2016 at 10:08 AM ^
hawwwwwwt takes
October 4th, 2016 at 9:40 AM ^
October 4th, 2016 at 9:46 AM ^
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October 4th, 2016 at 3:24 PM ^
Sparty misses the personnel they recruitied during Michgan's "missing years" of 2007-2011 than they do Narduzzi.
October 4th, 2016 at 9:49 AM ^
MSU's defense wasn't built in a day and took a while to fade once he left. Narduzzi can't turn a defense around in 24 hours. It takes time to establish yourself and your mindset. It also lasts a while after you leave.....
October 4th, 2016 at 9:52 AM ^
our defense drastically turned around from 2010 to 2011
October 4th, 2016 at 9:55 AM ^
are not impossible and are more likely with the talent level of UM vs. Pitt. But, an exception does not prove the rule.
October 4th, 2016 at 10:00 AM ^
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October 4th, 2016 at 12:21 PM ^
I knew lots of people would downvote beacuse:
1. Beat MSU/OSU first.... yada...yada..
2. Don't look like we care about the MSU game.
3. I have taken some unpopular stances in the past (about not persecuting college kids on message boards).
etc.
However, I think I made a solid point based on the numbers over the years. No one has really disputed it and most people just add other factors (recruiting, reversion to the mean, etc.) The point still stands.... its just those people that don't want us to talk about MSU that are failing to focus on the football discussion.
October 4th, 2016 at 1:01 PM ^
October 4th, 2016 at 1:11 PM ^
There are always multiple fctors that are in play when making broad analysis. My premise is that the coaching of Narduzzi is a more important factor than QB play. It's about wieghting the facotrs. Some are much more important than other factors.
October 4th, 2016 at 1:20 PM ^
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October 4th, 2016 at 1:26 PM ^
I was on this site long before points and I don't know why I should care about them....
October 4th, 2016 at 10:03 AM ^
Great coaches don't need more than 2 years. Look at how many coaches win titles in their 1st or 2nd year. Could be Harbaugh this year, Tressell won his 2nd year, Meyer at Florida I think, Saban 2nd or 3rd year, Stoops at OU. Great coaching is immediate. Hell look at Hermann at Houston, soon to be Texas.
October 4th, 2016 at 11:40 AM ^
And wish to subscribe to your magazine.
October 4th, 2016 at 11:14 AM ^
It also takes some time to recruit and develop the type of players you want in your system.
I don't know about Narduzzi but I've always viewed Pitt as a tough job. Stuck between OSU and PSU for recruiting, not to mention other big ten teams hitting western PA hard for recruits, and having to play in a crappy southern oriented division of the ACC. I suppose it is better than being in the same division as FSU, Louisville, and Clemson though.
October 4th, 2016 at 10:01 AM ^
What does this have to do with frat boys destroying a hotel?
October 4th, 2016 at 10:07 AM ^
Honestly, that has more ties to Rutgers and Jersey than anything in this thread.
October 4th, 2016 at 12:17 PM ^
October 4th, 2016 at 8:31 PM ^
I know ...as a long time poster who suffered the banhammer after pointing out that most of the shitheads involved in trashing Tree Tops were spoiled Jersey Sammy frat boys
October 4th, 2016 at 11:02 AM ^
Part of college football is recruiting, I get that. But Narduzzi doesnt have the players he needs to execute his defense yet at Pitt. He puts the corners in a lot of man and they just cant cover. I dont care what kind of coordinator Pitt has, their D isnt going to be very good with the players they currently have. Starting secondary recruit rankings JR CB Maddox 1046, SR FS Webb 1645, SO SS Whitehead 106 (by far their best player on D, played as FR, Narduzzi recruit), SR CB Lewis 1667. The talent just isnt there for him to have a good D right now. Granted the defense isnt good, but I dont think thats reflective of his coaching ability.
October 4th, 2016 at 9:40 AM ^
Well of course you're going to drop when you're the best D in the country. That shouldn't be a surprise. And even their "fall" from basically #1 to #30TD/#51SD isn't that bad. They lost a lot to the NFL but they've got some young guys in the pipeline (Dowell's, Austin Robertson, that King kid) who should be able to help them get closer to their old form.
October 4th, 2016 at 9:40 AM ^
Look, we all love JH, but Stanford won the Pac-12 last year and were very nearly a playoff team.
It's been 5 years since Shaw took over, I think we can just say he's a pretty good coach.
October 4th, 2016 at 9:50 AM ^
Agreed. The better and more obvious comparison would have been Oregon.
October 4th, 2016 at 12:15 PM ^
I didn't give that much thought to my example. I guess Oregon works too. I think about the NBA and how it seems teams rise year after year and then fall off a little year after year.
October 4th, 2016 at 11:20 AM ^
Shaw is a good coach. Won 79% of his games. And aside from getting blown out of the water by Washington last weekend he has them looking at another 10+ win year. The should be favored in every game from here on out. Wazzu, Colorado, and Oregon look competitive but should be winnable for Stanford. Notre Dame, Arizona, Oregon St, Cal, and Rice? Those should be easy victories for Stanford.
October 4th, 2016 at 9:41 AM ^
October 4th, 2016 at 9:42 AM ^
Cook was every bit as good as Cousins, so there's that.
The real question is how many Sparties are actually hoping D'antoninni takes one of these upper eschelon jobs at the end of the year so they can bring Narduzzi back as head coach?
October 4th, 2016 at 11:30 AM ^
October 4th, 2016 at 12:01 PM ^
Without question MSU is a better job than Pitt. MSU is in the B1G East while Pitt is in the other ACC division.
October 4th, 2016 at 9:50 AM ^
I'm not sure it was Narduzzi or just a regression to the mean. MSU pioneered the hyper aggressive quarters defense, which they were able to pull off when the secondary was loaded with NFLers, 1st round picks and Thorpe winners. But MSU doesn't recruit at an elite level and all recruiting data shows that not every low rates guy will be a diamond in the rough. Maybe they just hit on some guys all at once and were able to terrorize with it. And now, they haven't hit with under the radar guys. Combine that with people starting to figure out how to stress the hyper aggressiveness of that system leads and the pass D really doesn't look as good. The run D is still fine, but they've really fallen off at the back end. Remember, Dantonio was a NC winning DC himself. And also, this is kind of a terrible board topic. But hey, I have, like, opinions man.
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October 4th, 2016 at 9:57 AM ^
October 4th, 2016 at 10:10 AM ^
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October 4th, 2016 at 12:03 PM ^
Which makes this year even more puzzling that Dantonio is going with a 5th year senior at QB. He could be getting next years starter valuable game reps but instead is trotting out a mediocre kid who will probably be working at an accounting firm in chicago by this time next year.
October 4th, 2016 at 12:55 PM ^
If Dantonio's younger qbs haven't beaten out TOC then that is grim for next year's outlook.
October 5th, 2016 at 11:27 AM ^
deWeaver is just a Freshman. If I had to bet I'd say he is the starter next year and Dantonio doesn't want to burn the redshirt.
October 4th, 2016 at 10:09 AM ^
I always figured the edge was due to steroids.
October 4th, 2016 at 9:45 AM ^
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October 4th, 2016 at 9:47 AM ^
October 4th, 2016 at 11:04 AM ^
October 4th, 2016 at 9:47 AM ^
Both great coaches who are great tacticians. Both are below average recruiters who are great at identifying talent. Both hit it big with a class or two of guys, rode those teams to a lot of success, and are now coming down the mountain because you can't sustain long-term success based on finding diamonds in the rough. You have to recruit blue chips consistently because even if you're a great talent evaluator, it's still hard to have good teams by hitting it big with 3*s.
October 4th, 2016 at 9:47 AM ^
I just think it's a down year in general for them. They are struggling in multiple areas and facets of the game, no one weakness is contributing to their record thus far. When you have success at the level that they did a drop off, whether it be mild or severe, is inevitable. In Ohio's case, Urbz "down years" consist of one or two losses. In MSU's case, Dantonio's down years are three or four losses. I think MSU could very well be 7-5 give or take a win this season, but I don't think it's the end of MSU's success.
October 4th, 2016 at 9:51 AM ^
BUt, there is pattern over years of the defense getting worse. It isn't just a random down year. It is a trend for the side of the ball that made them what they became for a while.....
October 4th, 2016 at 9:59 AM ^
It wasn't good. You wasted a lot of your time looking up stats. No one was impressed. Try again in the near future.