I hope Borges brings his A game. And I'm actually very excited to see the Gallon/Dennard matchup. Should be a good game
MSU Week: Monday
I hope Borges doesn't throw any interceptions or miss any field goals.
Yeah, it's not like the quarterbacks coach and offensive coordinator is responsible for the quarterback's performance or offensive playcalling.
Well, they're not responsible for the players' performance.
So, position coaches aren't responsible for the performance of the positions they coach and the offensive coordinator isn't responsible for the performance of the offense?
Huh, that explains the job stability in coaching.
Absolutely not. All the coaches can do is coach, not perform.
So, you're blaming the special teams coach for Gibbons' missed field goals against PSU?
What are the coaches responsible for?
"All the coaches can do is coach," means what, exactly? Poor decision making, poor throwing mechanics, and a general lack of QB development seem like it should be in the QB coach's wheelhouse.
for the onfield performance of the personnel you're paid to manage and coordinate, while pulling down $650K/yr and $100K more each year in deferred payments.
The kickers too?
Good God...that was easy... getting the critics out. jeezus.
Gibbons's struggles are a mystery to me, given his previous performance. Same with Wile, who seems to be having more problems this year than last.
But yes, the coaches are responsible for the team they put on the field. If the kicking game starts tanking, Hoke has to take responsibility for it (both as HC and as the kicking coach).
Missing kicks is not the same thing as throwing an interception. The only thing they really have in common is that they're both a negative outcome.
There is a certain portion of the board that truly believes that the coaches are completely absolved from ANY responsibility over anything that happens on the field it seems and that just makes me laugh. What people fail to realize, it seems, is that EVERY play ends up with a touchdown on the drawing board. You dont create one that states "at four yards just fall down". No matter how simple the play the assumption is, executed correctly, you will score a touchdown. Which means the defense has the same basic assumption when drawing up plays (they all end in loss of yards) so it's the meeting of the two that determines winners and losers.
Yes coaches are responsible...like it or not.
a certain portion of the board gets tired of another portion of the board's knee jerk reactions and continual bitching doesnt mean they don't think coaches are responsible. Maybe a certain portion of the board doesn't value the opinions of negative Nancys bitching from their armchairs.
I'm lost, which portion of the board am I in again?
Stubbornly trying to force the running game when it's clearly not working (PSU) is on the coaches, and the resulting 3rd and long situations set the QB up for failure (INTs).
" 'All the coaches can do is coach' means what, exactly"
I figured it was obvious. The coaches have the responsibility of teaching the players. A player could be taught what is generally accepted as the right way to do whatever is being taught. If the player is still not doing it correctly, then it's on the player, not the coach. In the end, on field performance is on the players. Coaches call the plays obviously and if we are talking scheme and play calls, well obviously that is on the coaches, but yes, the players are ultimately responsible for executing the plays.
And my argument is that some of the coaching staff isn't doing their job teaching the players how to play. Denard's passing was worse his junior year than his sophomore and worse his senior than his junior. Gardner's best play at QB came after being a WR for a half a season. Three years of QB regression suggests that Borges doesn't seem to be teaching these guys how to be a good QB.
And we apparentally fundamentally differ about whether or not the coaching staff is accountable for the performance of their team.
I see your point, but have you ever thought, "Maybe these players just can't learn properly?" That isn't on the coaches and don't even bother saying, "Well, they recruited them, so yeah, they should be able to learn" or something like that. We all know that some players look great in high school but bad in college.
Of course some players struggle to develop in college. There will always be kids who max out in HS or just can't put it all together mentally or physically. But I don't agree with this apparent absolution of the coaching staff from the performance of their players once they step on to the field on the grounds that maybe the kids can't learn.
Have you ever thought, "maybe this coach just can't coach?"
Hmmm...Since all a coach does is coach, how do you evaluate a coach's performance? Since players' performance is not a derivative of coaching, what measures do you point to so as to say "Coach X is a good coach. Coach Y is a bad coach."
I am genuinely curious and not trying to be snarky.
Well, you and others are certainly being obtuse, if not snarky.
Its obvious he doesn't mean that coaches have no responsibility.
But this isn't a video game where Mattison is at fault because he pressed Y late on the Stribling missed interceptions. Stribling is at fault. The coach put him in a good spot. The player actually has to move his muscles.
Come on guys, there are really stupid things being said every day on here. This isn't one of them.
It'd be one thing if the "it's not the coaches throwing the INT" comment came in the context of one bad INT or even one bad game. But Gardner clearly has problems turning the ball over, and when your QB has a persistent problem over multiple games, there is something to be said for the QB coach bearing some of that responsibility. In Borges's case, it's compounded by the fact that the QB is also not being put in a good position due to bad play calling on early downs.
Some responsibility for the coach, but the clear majority of the blame is on the player since he is the one who threw the interception.
I just don't understand how some people can blame the coaches more for losses when they are not the ones playing. The games are on the shoulders of the players first and then coaches second. How is that not clear as day?
Just to be clear, I'm not saying that Gardner is somehow blameless for all the TOs he's had. He definitely is responsible for what he does on the field, as are all the other players, good and bad. I just can't agree with the idea that position coaches "absoluely [do] not" bear responsibilities for their positions.
EDIT: It's clear that you take it easier on the coaching staff than me. That's totally fine, I think it's pretty obvious we simply disagree about the coaching staff's culpability in how a team performs on the field relative to the players shouldering the blame (or getting the glory, as the case may be).
You evaluate a coach by wins and losses because in the end, those are the only two stats that matter.
I see where your going with that, but, don't we want Borges to assume that he has the talent to put forth a game plan and that his players are going to execute it. They are recruiting at a high level at really all offensive positions, and it looks to me that he tried to run "his stuff" and that it failed miserably, but is that due to scheme or performance. If it is due to scheme is he not recruiting the right kind of players for his system? if it is due to performace is it an effort issue? Do his preferred schemes just suck bad enough that they would still suck if the Denver Broncos were running them? I mean the offensive coordinator calls the plays, but is he responsible for offensive talent development in the broader sense. If there is a problem with Borges, what precisely would it be? Is it trying to run schemes that his players are not good enough to run? Would that not be a personel problem? These are rhetoricals but do kind of explain the issue I am having with it in my head.
I see Borges' responsibility covering things like QB development (as the QB coach, not the OC), and game planning/play calling that considers the skillset of the offense talent he has at his disposal.
There are things I like about him, and things that I don't (I do think he should be considered to be coaching for his job the rest of the season, though). To your point, he seems to do a lot of play calling and game planning without too much consideration about what the players can execute. Some times it works, and some times it doesn't. Every time I hear "execution" as the reason the team performed poorly, all I can think is "in that case, why are you asking them to do that?" As the OC, he should be aware by now what his team is and is not capable of doing. It doesn't help that his in-game adjustments are borderline non-existent.
Ultimate responsibility is with the head coach. That said, Hoke's recruits are young and just beginning to see playing time. Considering recruiting is such a strength with Hoke, it makes sense to give him some time until he's playing with his players.
clear thinking. nice.
Just to be clear, I'm not calling for Hoke's head. I don't know where that came from. There is more than enough positive stuff going on with the program, even if I personally haven't been impressed with things like QB development or OLine play.
more logical than the masses that blame Borgess for everything. That shit is old.
This is true, but it works both ways. The coaches are supposed to evaluate a player's abilities before offering. Therefore, the coach is ultimately responsible for the quality of material they work with on the field. To say "the players have to make the plays" is the same as "the coaches have to recuit better players". Coaches recruit, train in practicew, and call plays during the game. With this much total control, it is hard to see how they should not take 100% responsibility for the outcome of a team. Why doesn't Hoke have better options at kicker and QB? Whose fault is that?
Upwards of 50 (out of 85, not inc. walk-ons) of the players on this team are Hoke' s players. So the clock starts ticking on that when?
become rs juniors and seniors. This will not be until 2015. If we are still experiencing OL, DL problems then Hoke will be on the clock. Overall, I'm optimistic. Though I still am uncertain how Hoke will do against the top coaches. I can see 9-3 to 11-1 regular season records, kind of back to the traditional Michigan football. B1G championship every 3rd year, may be several BCS bowl wins. Not out of the question of getting a NC in the next decade.
Whenever the Athletic Director and a fickle fanbase decide they want the clock to start ticking.
There are certain things every coach must ask players to do, regardless of the players' ability.
All coaches want to run the ball at least a few times a game. So they ask their linemen to block. Now, one can do different things to maximize the players' skills, but we haven't been able to consistently block any scheme. Man, zone, under center, shotgun, doesn't matter. We have not been good at any sort of blocking. The coordinator is still going to call some runs, though.
Of course I'm not talking about some kind of absolute "the running game is struggling, don't call any more running plays" adjustment. But there is something to be said for not doing things, e.g., power running, as much as this team does when you haven't been able to do it for three years.
I'm not calling for some kind of wholesale abandonment of half the play book, but Borges, in my opinion, seems to game plan around what he wants the team to do, regardless of what the team has displayed themselves capable of doing. Then "execution" gets thrown around as the explanation for the team's struggles.
You seem to be a reasonable guy with adult-level emotional control. You are my favorite kind of coach-basher. There are so few of you left.
And, or course, you are right. But lets say we want to run the ball 10 times. That is very few, really. When do we run them? The people on here seem to think any first down run is nothing but a burnt down. So, do we then run on 2nd and ten after an incompletion? 2nd and long after a sack? 2nd and short after a completion? Wouldn't the defense expect this and load the box? How about third and long? That's just being conservative and playing to punt. Third and short? Same thing, but also awful because it would be taking the ball from Gardner's hands.
Our line is bad. This makes us one dimensional, and even then, we have to max protect a lot and this limits our one dimension even more. It makes a coordinators job very difficult. I think Borges has acquitted himself pretty well under the circumstances. This doesn't mean he's immune to mistakes, bad plans, or criticism, but people hate him because he doesn't do what they believe in, nothing else.
What if some of these plays that fail in games are executed really well in practice? There's a big difference between executing in practice and in games. In practice you're going against the same person/people every day. You learn their strengths and weaknesses. How to attack them and how to beat them. Then afterwords you're probably going to eat dinner with them, possibly drink some beers and might even have class the next with them. In the game, you're going against someone who you've seen on film some, got a scouting report on and someone who wants to rip your head off. Not every thing is going to happen as planned like you practiced it and the players need to be able to make split second decisions as to how they react. As a coach you try to practice all the possible scenarios but sometimes a player has to use his instinct and football IQ. Maybe the coaching staff can do a better job coaching, but unfortunately we don't get to see what goes on Sunday through Friday and see how well the players perform in practice.
No lie, if I would take Borges' "B" game right this second if it were guaranteed. I'd love the "A" game, but the possibility of a "D" game is much scarier.
I'll settle for a "B"
If he brings his A game like he did vs ND, we win by at least 10. If he comes out trying to pound Fitz outta the I like he did in Happy Valley, we will struggle. We gotta attack them through the air. With the talent of Gallon, Funchess, Dileo (hopefully he can go), and Chesson there will be some favorable matchups if State continues to play man-press coverage.
to make a strong statement as well; be up in Cook's grill all day long.
I HATE STATE!!!
I wonder whom Dantonio looked at after he stopped looking at the ball. Hoke?
he looks at the guys on the field to see if his players are throwing any punches. He has to do this after every play.
Probably not as much as my wife... she feels compelled to walk up to any Sparty doll/gnome/whatever that she sees in a store to punch it; that and she has her doctorate from MSU (apparently Sparty tried to run her over one day she was walking across campus).
I really think we match up well against them. Their offense is bad enough that a good defense can turn in a dominant performance. Our offense has not lived up to its billing, but can turn things around easily if we limit turnovers. I don't think it will be a close game at all. Crowd noise concerns me, but maybe that's because I saw first hand what PSU's home crowd did to our offense.
A mistake-prone QB with a leaky OL is a recipe for disaster against a pressure defense that is excellent at causing turnovers.
I see MSU winning pretty easily. At least one defensive touchdown, constant harassment of Devin, and their offense will get a couple of big plays. MSU 27, UM 14.
You beat MSU with big physical WRs who can break their jams,a rock solid OL, and a physical rushing attack. UM has almost none of these things.
Funchess disagrees with you.
Funchess may be the necessary big physical WR, but can the OLine keep Gardner upright long enough for him to get downfield?
No, it's FUNYUNS boys...
and indirectly you have touched upon the factor that will decide this game. Gardner's legs v. Michigan State pressure. State has not been tested this year to any degree against an effective running quarterback. The best response to State bringing pressure is for Devin to find some lanes and turn the tables on them. If Gardner can force them to think twice about selling out with pressure it can change the entire complexion of this game.
Agreed that Gardner's the key, but I think it's more a matter of Gardner's decision making vs. Michigan State Pressure (rather than Gardner's legs). If Gardner can maintain his composure and avoid unnecessary turnovers in the face of an aggressive and skilled MSU defense (i.e., take his lumps when he has to), I like Michigan's chances. If not, then it will be a long afternoon.
has been pretty effective in pass protection for much of the year.
We do need a counter to that double A gap blitz, which no team anywhere (and not just vs. Sparty) seems to be able to punish. Butt on a short, quick drag over the middle?
Beyond that, on third down we're going to need Fitz to pick up that tough little bastard Denicos Allen more than once.
No they have not. The line routinely leaves guys unblocked against the blitz and almost always has one guy struggle man to man. There is almost never a clean pocket except when we run heavy play action with max protection. Gardner has scrambled a ton, and this is because the line has not been good in protection.
if we go max protect. If the pocket breaks down after that, it should be Gardner in open space. . .
How physical is Funchess, really? He's definitely big, but he's struggled with blocking, perhaps due to a lack of physicality. While I would like to see him throwing people around on the outside a la Burruss vs. Terrell, I don't think it is a foregone conclusion that will happen.
Who were the big physical WR's last season that were breaking jam coverage? Don't think anyone would have called last years OL "rock solid" good yes, but far from great. Also have same running back (along with bigger back in Green) as last year.
14-13 at the half. We pull away with one score in the second half (late 3rd Q) and we hold them off.
MSU scores 1 TD off a turnover and 2 FGs.
Neither did Notre Dame and they came away with a victory. If Michigan can keep the turnovers to a minimum, they win.
MSU still had a hysterically bad offense, and QB roulette.
That isn't exactly the case any more.
"...if we limit turnovers."
That's a huge "if." Especially considering that MSU's defense isn't just good, but really aggressive. There's a definite possibility of a couple of really negative, non-mutually exclusive developments: 1. offense struggles and TOs start piling up and 2. playcalling goes super conservative.
Can Michigan win comfortably? Sure. Will they? Given UM-MSU games of recent vintage, I seriously doubt it.
is going to be ugly. I just hope Borges has something for that double A-gap blitz we're going to see all game.
is going to be close, and above you 1484 said it won't be close. I agree with you, we need to pick up the blitz have some semblance of a running game, and cause a few turnovers. I am hopeful, but I think it will be a tight game...
They should definitely be prepared for a fake punt or fake field goal...no excuse not to be.
Yup. I am sure Hoke & Co. know that, but I just wish there was a way for me to remind them just in case. MSU does trick plays and fake punts/FGs more often than most teams. M has to be prepared for this. For kicks, don't do coverage. Simply play the fake every time and make sure the returner handles the ball. I'd rather prevent a fake kick then get yards on the return. Play the fake, have the returner call a fair catch every time, problem solved.
The best way to have success against their defense is to spread them out and throw quick passes before their blitz can get home. I've only seen limited action of teams against them, but IU seemed to have some success spreading them out, and Illinois moved the ball pretty well with quick passes on their first drive (and not at all after that).
They like to leave their corners on an island and bring 6 or 7 on over 50% of snaps. Devin will have to make good, fast decisions, but their defense can be exploited if the ball gets out before the blitz arrives. Unfortunately, Devin likes to hang on to the ball sometimes and dance around looking for something down field. It leads to large sacks and unnecessary hits on the QB.
Michigan can't try to run the ball every first down like they did against PSU. Shooting yourself in the foot and turning every drive into 2nd and 11 will lead to a lot of 3 and outs. Hope the forecast doesn't have a lot of wind, and please not the trash tornado weather because if this turns into a trench war, I do not like our chances.
I think MSU's D scores at least 1 TD, maybe more. its gonna be cold, windy, maybe rainy. i have a mental list of 20 reasons why, which i won't get into now.
Unfortunately I don't see how we win this game with anything short of a perfect outing.
First 7 games don't really make me believe we can pull off:
- Be at least +1 in turnover margin.
- Avoid 3rd and 8+.
- Keep Devin from getting clobbered.
- No Poor Damn Fitz.
Only thing that makes me feel okay is that I think Mattison will have the defense flying around after that Indiana game, and JMFR will be all over any scrambling they try to do with Cook.
It's gonna be another 14-10 kind of game. Right now I think we're the 10. I'm sure the homer-ism will start flowing by Friday and I'll change my mind on that.
regardless of which JmfR you mean, jake ryan or james ross, i think that state will find a lot of success running up the middle against our undersized DL. i haven't watched every game, but the ones i have seen they have a 295 lb H-back that leads into the hole and just destroys dudes. UM can scheme all they want, but i think state does this 15-20 times in the game and if they get 4+ yards each time it begins to set up play action that even Connor Football can complete.
It wouldn't surprise me to see more Henry at the 3-Tech instead of Black, although that means less rest for Washington at Nose unless they want to give Ash a few reps. This will be a less pass-focused offense than many of the other offenses we have seen this year, so I would guess we throw out some stouter fronts. Or maybe more of Heitzman at SDE and Godin/Wormley next to Washington. Regardless, Washington is going to get plenty of play and the Dline will probably show a little bigger than it has in the past few weeks.
Dude, you MF lost me at "which JmfR". For future reference, JMFR is always Jake Ryan
I don't care how ugly the game is because in this instance any kind of win is pretty. No injuries for either team.
Our helmets got wings!
I was waiting for this thread and to say that I am already of sick of talking about the game, thinking about the game and imagining the game. Can we start it yet?
This game will break the mold of the winning team having more rushing yards.
No it won't. I have a feeling Devin will gain a lot of yards on the ground, scrambling. State shutdown Denard on designed runs. I think the key in this game will be yards Devin gains on scrambles and keeping turnovers down.
I don't think ill ever get used to seeing us picked to lose badly. This isn't Bama we're playing. As inconsistent as we have been, they have been equally as inconsistent. We both have an advantage when our defense is on the field but at least we have the weapons to pop a big play at any given moment. Devin is no more untrustworthy than Connor f'n Cook.
If Hoke plays to win and insists Mattison/Borges unleash the hounds, the turnover battle will even out and the game will be ours for the taking. This State team just doesn't scare me how they seem to have spooked everyone else. I don't see it.
Borges and Hoke will go in expecting a low scoring, defense dominated game. They will game plan expecting that Michigan’s D will limit MSU to under 20 points. This will be the first of two major mistakes:
1. MSU always schemes for this game, and will install some explosive plays on offense that will help push it to at least 2 if not 3 touchdowns and a few field goals. I see Sparty scoring at least 20 points by virtue of its offense simply because (a) home field, (b) they scheme to Michigan all year, and (c) their offense has improved a great deal the last few weeks. Add in the 50/50 chance they will have at least one TD on defense, and they will reach roughly 24-30 points.
2. Borges will have installed a horrible, conservative attack meant to limit turn overs. In the first half he will max protect a ton and light first down on fire a lot as he scopes out what MSU is doing, and Devin will be under 50% passing given he targets an overly covered Gallon and Funchess over 90% of the time. Michigan doesn’t score more than 14 in the first half, if that. In the second half, Borges starts opening it up since we are behind, at which point Gardner gets sacked every other 3rd down due to 3rd and long, and Borges and Funk’s inability to properly prepare Gardner for check downs off of MSU’s double A gap, and corner blitzes. Devin makes a few throws, we score another td or so, but overall the frustrating, conservative game plan turns out to bite us in the ass as we lose 30-21.
Seems I've seen this movie before!
What I'd like to see is Borges softening the defense up with throws to Butt and Dileo. They are the two that MSU will least likely scheme around, so they should be early targets, and once MSU adjusts, that should soften the run game and over the top to the big 2 - Gallon and Funchess.
Its possible, but they game planned against us in 2011 and 2012. They scored 21 and 9 offensive points in those respective years.
Not saying they can't win, but lets not see boogeymen under our beds. They have a bad offense that our defense matches up well against. The defense IS scary, but I have confidence in our ability to move the ball and score points, which we have done pretty consistently (except score against Akron).
"Surprised there hasn't been more on the board."
That's because they're Michigan State.
Let's not pretend they haven't been the second most frequently talked about team on the MGoBoard. Despite which ever team is Michigan's biggest rival in real life, this board's number one enemy has shown itself to be Michigan State and it's not even close.
I'm calling a defensive shootout right now. 4-2 Good guys
For once, sparty will come in over-confident. It's always close but I'm thinking 24-21 good guys.
Replace but with so.
my god. This is pathetic. Michigan is going into spartan stadium and kicking some Sparty ass and that is final. First the "refs are not going to call the pass inteference" and then this "how can we avoid getting killed discussion" that is breaking out. I just thought this wasn't getting talked about because most, like me, just assumed that we were going to go up to EL and take care of business.
Come on. Devin is going to throw all over them and Fitz is going to run all over them and then Jake MFR is going to bring the pain. Enough of this apolegetic non-sense. This is Michigan.
I am sick of everyone praising the msu defense like they are god.. They are ok but not that fuckin great they have had zero test this year, well ND i guess was a real test but we know how inconsistent ND has been this year and they are not all that great either.
MSU defense and OL have a lot of seniority and they have experience but other than that their offense is garbage.. And no Illinois game doesnt show how great msu offense is since Illinois has lost 17 straight conference games and they are worse than any B1G team....we have good talent and Hoke an the Team will cone through..
Indiana was the biggest test (on offense) this year for both teams (thus far). Both teams faced the Hoosiers at home. In my opinioin MSU dealt with the Indiana problem much better than Michigan did.
UM vs Indiana:
Gave up 47 points and 572 yards
MSU vs. Indiana:
Gave up 28 points and only 351 yards.
MSU's defense is ranked No. 1 in the nation for good reason. Yes, their offense does suck, but it has probably improved since early season debacles against WMU and USF.
Over the year, MSU's quarterback issues, penalties and shitty offensive performance hasn't hurt them very much. While Michigan has a good rushing D, they have no pass rush, and a horrible pass defense (255 YPG, 10th in league)!!
On offense Michigan really has no running game, unless it's Gardner taking the rep. UM's passing game is scary good, but MSU's pass defense is tops in the league by a huge margin.
Here's a good SB Nation article that tries to answer the question "How do we know if Michigan State's defense and Baylor's offense are actually any good?"
They seem to be getting better but for most of the year that has been true, which makes what MSU's defense has done even more impressive. They haven't had the luxury of having an offense churn out long time consuming drives while they get to rest on the sidelines.
for feeling sorry for me. I live in complete farm country Michigan, surrounded by Spartans. They are insufferable. Oh, also, Sparty came to my kids' elementary school (public). I need this one, bad. It has been a nice quiet past year....
We've significantly underperformed in many aspects of the game this year. Barely winning against some poor teams, and leaving a win on the table. But this game, this far into the season, should provide a true evaluation of this staff.
Adjust to what you have. Put people in positions to succeed. And play to win. Let's outscheme a team for once as well.
Football folk, how do you mitigate their Double A-Gap Blitz? Screens (have we seen one this year?), slants, rollouts?
Max protect with quick releases to Butt, or quick hitches to Dileo, Gallon and Funchess, being mindful of Sparty jumping routes. Great discipline to throw it out of bounds and avoid the sack. Moderate OL play (that will be the hardest part).
Max protect + short passes = stupid game plan.
If you want quick passes, you don't need max protection. Moreover, it would probably behoove a coordinator to spread the field if they are planning to pass it short, as it spreads the defense and opens up passing lanes. You can't spread and max protect.
You make Borges look like God.
Sick of it.
They have a defense. Big woop. This is a flawed team just like ours who has beaten absolutely nobody. 6 of the worst teams in college football were on that schedule. The one decent team they played, they lost to. They "improved" about as much as we did against Indiana.
This is year 3 with Hoke. They have seen this show twice before and I am very confident that defensively they are going to shut that pile of shit down. They have two weeks to do it. And trick plays will be on watch. They won't be getting the okey doke pulled on us this year. So its up to the offense to score a few times. 17 should do it.
Loosen up chaps. We win this weekend. Maybe even big.
This is a really shitty BIG10 once again. But we do know how Michigan lost to a "nobody" at Penn State, though admittedly Michigan pretty much beat themselves in that one
With tight, emotional road rivalry games like this one, this is frequently the case. It's rarely about elaborate schemes or opening up the playbook. It's more about not beating yourself with errors.
The only dangerous team on the field this Saturday is Michigan - as much to themselves as much to opponents. MSU's offense isn't impotent. It's just not very good.
What I remember was, after the 12-10 loss last year, Mark Dantonio said he was elated not to have to face Denard Robinson anymore. This year Michigan again returns with a QB leading the team in rushing. MSU has not faced a legitimate rushing threat at QB all year, except maybe Jake Ruddock of Iowa (4.6 ypc, 5 TDs).
Gonna be a dogfight. I think we have more big plays on O and Mattison dials up some blitzes that get home. Huge road win.
"What the fuck happened to the Delta I used to know? Where's the spirit? Where's the guts, huh? This could be the greatest night of our lives, but you're gonna let it be the worst. "Ooh, we're afraid to go with you Bluto, we might get in trouble." Well just kiss my ass from now on! Not me! I'm not gonna take this. Wormer, he's a dead man! Marmalard, dead! Niedermeyer..."
Was it over when the German's bombed Pearl Harbor?
until the first time we see a stretch run into an 8-man front. Then, this:
Read my mind.
Fuck this shit, we should beat State every year. This year is no different. This is a team that almost lost to Western Michigan last I checked WMU has yet to win a game. We are going to east Lansing and dropping 50 on those poor kids. 50-9 will be the score when the clock strikes 0:00!
Man up and Go Blue!
We don't exactly have the right to say anything along the lines of "they almost lost to ____" about anyone.
Hey, the Zips are a fine ball club.
Yes but all of the doom and gloom comes from our poor performances against Akron and Uconn. That happens to almost everyone, including MSU.
An overall crappy team that beat us! Should never had happen. It may be PSU's only conference win! They may beat IL or Purdue.
Hell Yea man !!! That's the enthusiasm I like to see!!! We should be the favorite every single year against those hillbillies !!!
Eventually, that defense is going to wear out with that embarrasing collection of players that they like to call an offense can't move the ball. 31-14 MICHIGAN!
I don't have any reason to believe it will be a lot different than last year's game. Finishing drives was a problem in that game, so I hope Michigan avoids that same mistake, and replaces a couple of those FGs from last year into TDs.
Replaces them WITH TDs
If you look back at the past couple of seasons vs state, we've had plenty of scoring opportunities, denard missed guys open in the endzone, players have also dropped passes, now one could argue it was due to the defense, but....I also remember last season a screen called to Fitz, I believe it was a poor throw, had he caught it, it would have been a HUGE gain. We just need to execute better, not drop passes, and devin needs to step into his throws. While in the red zone, if there isn't at least 2 fades to Funchess, I will be pissed. Honestly if devin gets in trouble, he needs to tuck and run. I'm sick of state, I'm sick of fucking spartan idiots telling me, you better be ready for "beast Lansing," or we're gonna "hit you hard," you better be ready, blah, blah, blah, "our lines our superior to yours," sick of this shit. Hoke better be telling these guys most aren't giving us a chance, and we should be the ones coming out with a chip on our shoulder. GO BLUE!
Being 54 the concept of losing to MSU more than twice in any given decade seems crazy to me but facts are facts and until we demonstrate we can play the same on the road as we do at home I'm afraid this one looks bad to me.
But I am totally willing to give Al every chance to change my opinion of his game planning on Saturday. Perhaps he watched the OSU game against Penn State and saw for himself that taking the ball to the edges stretches a defense and makes the middle that much easier to exploit. Perhaps he saw Urban Meyer's offense absolutely crush PSU by "taking what they were giving" instead of demanding the ball be run into stacked fronts. And perhaps he watched as I did, OSU get the ball with under a minute to go on their own 30, up by 28 and NOT run the clock out but rather go for the throat to crush PSU before half. And maybe we saw Miller line up in the shotgun or Pistol on virtually every play to keep the threat of his running present - even when Hyde was getting the ball between the tackles.
But I really ,really doubt it. I predict a game plan very smiliar to Iowa 2011 and yet another frustrating road loss 21-13.
I was really hoping we started using those slants to the edges to create distance and space. Saturday would be the perfect time to try some.
Huh. You'd think that being 54, you'd remember the two times the won in the 80s, 4 times in the 90s, 3 times in the 00s, and twice so far in the 10s.
You sure you're not still 24? This has been going on for a while.
So other than the 90s I was right?
While not as old as you I am older than the average poster and I'm with you. This idea of Staee being tougher than us and favored at that dump in EL more than 2 times a decade blows my mind. Hoke needs to start getting his shit together on this whole toughness angle. Practice what you preach or pretty soon it rings hollow. Soon is close.
Between the ages of 11 (1970) and 24 (1983) I saw Michigan lose exactly TWO games to MSU and only 8 total from age 11 to age 48 so yeah, losing to MSU more than twice in a decade DOES seem kinda wierd to me. And two of those loses (1990 & 2001) were increadibly tainted so to me we only really "lost" 6 games over a 37 year stretch and virtually all of my fandom.
I lived through those decades too. A lot has changed since then. State has been consistently stronger recently than any time since the 50s and 60s, and the Rich Rodriguez tenure (0-3 against State) happened at Michigan. Start the decade with Brady Hoke at the helm, and he has two more losses to go in the next 8 years to fall below your rather ridiculous standard (given the strength of recent State teams) of no more than two losses in a decade.
I lived through those decades too. A lot has changed since then. State has been consistently stronger recently than any time since the 50s and 60s, and the Rich Rodriguez tenure (0-3 against State) happened at Michigan. Start the decade with Brady Hoke at the helm, and he has two more losses to go in the next 8 years to fall below your rather ridiculous standard (given the strength of recent State teams) of no more than two losses in a decade.
We're 68-32 against them all time. Back out the last five years and we were 67-28 going into 2008 so my "ridiculous standard" was basically everyone's historical perspective give or take a game depending ont the decade you were born.
I could lie and say I was born in 1902, when Michigan beat State 119-0 and then claim I'm pissed anytime Michigan doesn't win by at least 100 points, but in reality, I'm within a year or two of you in age.
My father was a Spartan (I know, I know, that maybe explains a lot), and while he almost never bragged about Spartan football, the one exception he made was to say State had a pretty good QB in his day, a fellow by the name of Earl Morrall. In the 1950s, Michigan went 2-7-1 against State, and had the same record in the 1960s. So over twenty games spanning two decades, Michigan won just four games against State. I'm not saying I would be happy returning to that, but surely you realize it's unrealistic to expect things to stay that way they were when Bo's boys were kicking Michigan State ass. Times change, situations change, and while it would be wonderful to win every game, as a fan base we're setting ourselves up for disappointment if we expect it should be a given that we will win 8 out of every 10 games with the Spartans just because that's the way it was through our formative years.
I don't think your standard is ridiculous. But, you aren't 30 anymore. You've seen us lose 9 times out of the 24 games since your 30th birthday. Its the new reality. You've lived with it almost half your life. Not being able to come to grips with that is a bit ridiculous.
But I think you're fine, you just wrote a silly little comment and we're being pedantic.
No. 90s, 2000s, and two out of three in the 10s.
The 90s were over 14 years ago. You should be able to adjust to the new reality in 14 years.
This won't end well...
Just for reference, my comment was in response to a comment that has since been deleted. Just wanted to clear up any confusion my comment may have elicited.
We in app world can still see it.
Hey everyone, just wait until 2015. Hoke will finally have "his guyz".
For scouting / discussion purposes, the current MSU rankings on a whole bunch of offensive and defensive metric, courtesy of TeamRankings:
|Value (rank)||MSU Defense||Value (rank)|
|Points/Game||26.3 (#76)||Opp Points/Game||11.6 (#3)|
|Yards/Game||353.1 (#96)||Opp Yards/Game||221.1 (#1)|
|Points/Play||0.357 (#76)||Opp Points/Play||0.178 (#2)|
|Yards/Play||4.8 (#100)||Opp Yards/Play||3.4 (#1)|
|3D Conversion %||46.02% (#30)||Opp 3D Conv %||28.70% (#5)|
|4D Conversion %||62.50% (#23)||Opp 4D Conv %||28.57% (#18)|
|RZ Scoring %||77.78% (#87)||Opp RZ Scoring %||80.00% (#45)|
|Rush Play %||57.28% (#31)||Opp Rush Play %||42.11% (#5)|
|Yards/Rush||4.4 (#56)||Opp Yards/Rush||2.0 (#1)|
|Rushes/Game||42.1 (#34)||Opp Rushes/Game||27.4 (#1)|
|Rush Yards/Game||185.0 (#40)||Opp Rush Yards/Game||54.9 (#1)|
|Pass Play %||42.72% (#95)||Opp Pass Play %||57.89% (#121)|
|Completion %||56.54% (#82)||Opp Completion %||46.96% (#3)|
|Yards/Pass||5.5 (#117)||Opp Yards/Pass||4.7 (#1)|
|Passes/Game||30.6 (#86)||Opp Passes/Game||35.3 (#86)|
|Pass Yards/Game||168.1 (#110)||Opp Pass Yards/Game||166.3 (#1)|
|Int Thrown %||1.40% (#10)||Opp Int Thrown %||3.64% (#38)|
|QB Sacked %||2.73% (#12)||Sack %||6.44% (#37)|
|FG Conversion %||72.73% (#68)||Opp FG Conv %||50.00% (#8)|
At first glance, that 26.3 points seems high. At first I thought that it was looking at the total scored by MSU in games, but I just checked the math and no it doesn't.
MSU total scoring through 8 games: 26, 21, 55, 13, 26, 42, 14, 42, which is 239 points. /8 = 29.875 per game total between O and D scoring.
Based on who they played though, those 55, 42, and 42 point games (Youngstown, Illinois, & Indiana) show what they can do against no defense whatsoever. I doubt they will score more than 26 on Saturday, which seems to be their ceiling when playing against a defense with a pulse.
I cannot stand Mike Valenti!!!! I always hope we win but winning this weekend will be especially gratifying so he'll shut up. Except I know he won't :(
Who gives UM a better shot at 100 yards rushing, Green or Fitz?
that asshate won't show up next monday if Michigan wins. He will come up with some mystery disease or excuse to not face the music. He is a coward of the n'th degree. A shockjock with no consequences or rules.
But he is the main reason why, in my mind, I hate losing to Sparty way more than losing to Ohio. That Howard Stern wannabe is so self absorbed, condescending and hypocritical, that I love UM beating his whiny ass sending him into 4yr old mode where he hurls insults and sucks his thumb until his shifts end. But when Sparty wins, his smugness is nauseating.
Yes, I know, just turn him off, and often times I do, but 97.1 is the common work radio station on and I can't always do that....
Makes me think of this guy who works with Ms. ND Sux who calls in all the time with new, creative excuses. Our favorite: "bad sandwich."
the answer is Fitz. Still, if the line can't block it doesn't matter who is running the ball.
U do understand thats how he gets people to call in..MSU fans very rarely call in so he has to talk shit about Michigan so our fans call in..its a lot more of us than the puke greens.
But I still don't have to like it. I just don't have anything else to listen to on the drive home.
Could be listening to the Columbus slappies on your drive home like I'm stuck doing. They're quite insufferable at this point. At one juncture, Spielman was on and said not to forget about Michigan. They all essentially mocked him for even thinking that we pose a threat to them since they beat PSU so bad.
Some day, Borges' and Mattison's little baby birds are going to need to fly and that's gonna happen this Saturday. No more 5 yard cushions. No more craptastic D-line stunts that cause everyone to fall down. No more zone stretch! This is the game of the season. We need to pull out all the stops! If this doesn't happen, we have no chance of winning
On offense, we need to do or not do these things to be successful:
1. No QB draw out of shotgun on 3rd and short.
2. No tackle over in obvious run D&D.
3. Screens when defense continues to blitz on 3rd and short.
4. No more counters away from the strength of the TE/Tackle positions.
5. Want more waggle with QB run/pass option.
6. No option into the boundy.
7. Use Dileo on a rub route via motion if within the MSU 10 yard line or needing a 1st down.
No more stretch left either
With this much freaking time to prepare the coaches better not put a predictable piece of junk on the field. There will be no excuse for such a display. A second bye week means you come fully rested, prepared, practiced and ready to go with improved play and some new wrinkles to throw at Staee.
We all know what Staee is going to run and if we cannot stop it on O or D then we get to apply the EPIC FAIL label. This team is such a wild card this year I am not sure what we'll get but with 2 weeks to prepare? C'mon Man!
Exactly. Michigan almost never has a bye week before MSU. If this ends up being another shitshow I don't see how anyone can still have blind faith in the coaching staff.
Me neither. Blind faith would be stupid. Its what we had before they coached a game. Now we have sighted faith, based on the 25-8 record since they've taken over. Also, this isn't like the end of the Carr era, when we believed that Michigan would never be worse than 7-5. Hoke's predecessor went 15-22, so we know it can be worse. We don't want it to be worse.
I feel like to win we are going to have to play some backyard ball with Devin playing Johnny Football-style. The line of scrimmage will be Sparty's. Go Blue
Brady Hoke is 3-0 after bye weeks at Michigan with an average margin of victory of 24. Being a rivalry game and stout defense I'll predict Michigan 28 state 16
Your post involves zero science. You lose.
Let's consider the way we lost in those venues, shall we?
South Bend - Denard's birthday from hell. We lost by a single score despite turning it over 6 times. 4-5 of which occurred in the red zone. We had more total offense, first downs and rushed for nearly a full yard more per attempt. If Denard doesn't implode when in view of the goal- line, we win by 2+ scores, as most of the turnovers were unforced errors.
Happy Valley - We've all re- hashed this game enough recently. It was ours, we gave it away. If our almost always money kicker doesn't revert to his pre-"brunette girls" self, we win. Could Hoke have made some better decisions? Yes. Was it his fault we lost? No.
Lincoln - Please. The only thing Hoke could have done to prevent this road loss was to abandon the backup QB that had actually thrown a ball that season. Nebraska caught us in our most vulnerable game ever because Denard got hurt. We were marching down the field when he went out. We lost by two scores, but we all know why this loss happened and it wasn't Brady Hoke's fault.
Iowa City - Close game with a questionable no-TD call that could have altered the outcome. We got outplayed most of this game and deserved the loss. I suppose this could be on Hoke.
Columbus - I still have no idea what kind of drugs Borges took at halftime. That can be on Hoke because he didn't tell him to stop, but we still had a chance in Columbus against a good Buckeye team.
East Lansing - Garbage tornado with unnecessary roughness the whole game. The final score is skewed because of Denard's late pick-six. I do hold Hoke accountable for Borges' cute play calling near the goal line killing our game-tying TD drive. It was closer than people choose to remember.
Now, all that being said, those are all close games, but still losses. We still have a road monkey on our back. All we need to succeed on the road are small improvements - not major changes.
Sorry for the TL DR. I'm tired of the close losses on the road, but I'm confident Hoke can get things corrected. Let's hope my confidence is not foolhardy.
After a bye week?
No, it was after the Minnesota game (which was after a bye week).
Beat Sparty. Lot of talk about the offense vs their defense but I hope Mattison calls an aggressive gameplan agaisnt their offense; Cook is and has evolved but is still susceptible to errors. Stopping their new hulk of a running back will be difficult at times but I think we hold up okay in that regard.
Last win for Michigan at State 2007 classic is available on mgoblue. Was wondering if that gem will be posted to mgovideo?
I realize the focus is on UM's offense vs MSU's defense but I hope Mattison has some stuff planned for Cook. He's young and seems to be getting better and gaining some confidence. But i gotta believe he's going to have some serious butterflies in his stomach come game time. I hope we don't go bend but don't break and let Cook possibly gain some confidence and get settled.
Get in the youngster's head early and STAY there.
Obviously this is his biggest game of his life, hopefully GM can prey upon those nerves....
And cmon Taylor Lewan, back up those comments!!
One of my family members is getting his twitter sports app off of the ground. Check out our Michigan team chatter http://www.sportsfactory.co/sports/college/teams/michigan/grid
It provides relevant tweets and links to articles about Michigan football. You can also subscribe to other teams if you're interested.
Sorry mods if this is inappropriate but I thought people might like it