MSU and the right to talk smack: contrarian viewpoint

Submitted by NateVolk on

I say we have to earn it on October 9. In reality, they rule this series right now.  Today is what matters.

I love picking on them as much as anyone on here, but I am hoping  folks on here might consider joining me and refraining from vitriol or even backhanded compliments until we earn it on the field.  I am making that pledge.

A lot of you will continue to rub away and that is your right. I won't question it.  But I do think that part of being a program that is going places bigger than we used to be is behaving that way as fans.  The Rich overhaul that we are experiencing is about that desire to be able to line up with anyone in any spot on the map and win.

With all sincerity and with no sarcasm, MSU fan has his expectations, we have ours and trust me they are way different.  The last 3 years have met their expectations. Even the 6 wins last year was ok.  Because they beat Michigan. 

We're looking bigger picture.   I don't watch them even when U of M isn't on. They play a boring brand of football and their coach refuses to play to win games for whatever reason. I say let them enjoy it. Their team earned it on the field. Hard to over come that at this point.  It sharpens us if they are good anyways.

Congratulations to them for making the game really really matter this year. They earned that.

 

Poster Bobcat99 said it on a thread this morning about our laughter at their Brass Spittoon guaranteed game.  "Is this what we've become?"

It really got me thinking.

U Conn today, celebrate on Sunday. Notre Dame next.  

Currently our air of superiority is overheated and smelly.  Let's keep our eye on the ball the best we can.   10 plus win seasons, League title contention, Rose Bowls, BCS games, Top 5 finishes.  Nothing else will do for Brandon, Rich, or the fan base.  

goblueatkettering

September 2nd, 2010 at 11:44 AM ^

Smack talking is all about context.

If an MSU fan were to make a conjecture that they currently have a better program than ours, I would disagree, but a case could be made.

However, if that same fan were to claim that they "own" the series, instate recruiting, or anything of the like and will continue to do so, and they will be better than us for every year onward, they are an idiot.

Shalom Lansky

September 2nd, 2010 at 11:47 AM ^

There is a difference between the current state of the program and the program's place in history.  Our program and its traditions are far superior to MSU's and I think, as rivals, we should flaunt that.  Sure, they've beaten us the past two years and they will rightfully flaunt that.  This is what rivals do.

Hail-Storm

September 2nd, 2010 at 11:50 AM ^

Obviously as a program, Michigan has much higher goals than MSU. This is obvious since you never saw us put up billboards after a win against MSU, especially if they were only 3-9. And up until a few years ago, most Michigan fans were fine with rooting for MSU even though they knew that MSU fans would get more joy of a Michigan loss (not against them) than a win for their team.  I think most here are annoyed that State has been puffing out their chest soo much in the last 2 years after accomplishing little, that we are ready to throw them backin into their spot in the corner. Obviously we have, and always will, have bigger targets ahead (OSU, Big ten titles, MNC's), but this year I will probably stoop a little to their level and take great glee in seeing them fail against us.

I also don't think there is any harm in us giving it back to them a little. Yes, they beat us the last 2 years (barely) so they have earned something I guess. But a 7-3 record over the last decade can still be used to put them in their corner until Oct 9th.  Again, I don't fully understand what it is you are asking/telling us.

South Lyon Sparty

September 2nd, 2010 at 12:40 PM ^

Don't forget virtually all of the games with MSU over that past decade have also been highly competitive, thrillers... and even though State lost I can personally say the game Edwards enabled the 17-point comeback in Ann Arbor was one of the best I've ever seen.

But here's the fun things about sports... prove to me you're better than I am today.  "MSU Fan" is looking ahead and has every right to be excited about the prospects moving forward for LONG TERM stability within the football program.  It is Izzo's goal now that he has re-upped, and is Dantonio's as well.

Do they have to do it on the field... absolutely.  But you can posture all you want, we're not looking back at your records... we're looking forward.  Does this mean I'm bad mouthing UM or their prospects to turn around the program... no.

There will always be loud mouths on either side, but in my opinion MSU fans presently see themselves ahead of Michigan football, but keeping that edge (winning) has to be earned.

UMICH1606

September 2nd, 2010 at 1:35 PM ^

Serious question South Lyon Sparty. Can you please explain to me the belief that there is this long term stability with your program? I am asking because I know if I was a fan of a football team in year three of a regime change, and they go 6-7 like MSU did last year, that as a fan, I would be pissed. I would not see that as a great sign of things to come.

South Lyon Sparty

September 2nd, 2010 at 1:58 PM ^

Serious answer, last season was a disappointment both on and off the field, no question.  The heat is on Dantonio to win... but not in the sense of actual job security this season, like RRod.

But everything that went right for MSU in a surprising 2008 season seemed to turn the other way last year.  Admittedly, excuses are for losers... but they were arguably not as good as they showed two years ago... and not as bad as they looked last year.  Add in a Soph QB and two Freshman RBs... and .500 is what you get.

But, longer term... just the same as we saw stability lead to success with Izzo... many fans feel that things are trending up with Dantonio, right now.  Good recruiting, results in Cincinnati from the foundation he laid (but Kelly gets the credit for actually making it happen, rightly so), and a general belief that physical Michigan State football is coming back.

All of that means a whole lot of nothing if they don't back it up... but stability has to re-start somewhere.  Saban had the last chance to do it, if he stayed.  Many believe Dantonio has MSU in position now.  We'll see.

South Lyon Sparty

September 2nd, 2010 at 2:19 PM ^

No, obviously no one has forgotton last season and the fight.  But you know what, you deal with it and move on.  What else is he to do?

Otherwise, yea... there are a number of positive things happening, including being the team to restore a level of dignity to the program this season, both on and off the field, after that incident.  But they still have to prove it... or it means nothing.

Not saying they're there yet.  Hardly.  But the genesis of this exchange was where are the two programs as we write... TODAY. 

Hail-Storm

September 2nd, 2010 at 1:52 PM ^

Excited about the season, as all programs should as the beginning of the season is about to start.  And the Spartans have some legitimate things to be excited about for this season, as Curt Cousins is a talented QB with some weapons at his disposal. But to say that State is the better program is a bit off base at this point.  Last year (at State) Michigan lost in OT and ended the season 5-7.  State obviously won with record of 6-7. That win in overtime is the pretty much the only difference. This year I really don't see much difference between the two teams, and expect them to be pretty equal, so I don't understand why they imagine themselves as leaps and bounds better.  If State does want to look for better things, then Dantonio needs to put more emphasis into winning the conference then into beating Michigan. Michigan's goals every year are;

- Win the Big Ten and go to Rose Bowl/ Beat Ohio State (usually goes hand in hand)

- Beat Notre Dame

- Beat Michigan State

I don't see Dantonio's goals as close to this, since last year he stated he would rather Michigan lose to OSU then have Michigan win and MSu win the Big Ten. Doesn't sound like the words of someone trying to build a better program. Seems more along the lines of same old Sparty.

South Lyon Sparty

September 2nd, 2010 at 2:05 PM ^

"Leaps and Bounds" better, no.  Equal to at this point in time, TODAY... yes, State can lay claim to at least that.  Especially after winning the past tow years.

That alone is something most Michigan fans, in my opinion, do not care to rationalize.  That's also what will make the upcomign season, and october 9th, so fun!

Maximinus Thrax

September 2nd, 2010 at 3:26 PM ^

Selective use of a two year window can indeed lead to this judgment.  If UM were to win two season series in a row against MSU basketball, would we then be able to claim that we have the upper hand as well?  Decidedly not, Sparty.  And, I would imagine that while we would definitely throw it in your faces, we would not be fooling ourselves that all of a sudden we were the preeminent bball power in the state.

South Lyon Sparty

September 2nd, 2010 at 3:35 PM ^

Beyond the two year window, truth is MSU has been right there with UM in fottball for the better part of the past decade.  Multiple O.T. games, "Spartan Bob" clock game, and the past two years.

What I've been trying to say is right here, right now, MSU and UM are essentially even in football.  They are.  Again, all of it means nothing if they don't follow-up on the field... but State has every reason to be as optimistic heading into this season as UM does, if not more so.

We'll see.

Maximinus Thrax

September 2nd, 2010 at 4:02 PM ^

Although I feel I must debate your point that were equals in football over the last ten years, I will not dignify that assertion with a response.  And, you essentially ceded my point that given a two year window only, we are equals.  My real point was that although I don't want to dwell on the past, MSU as a football program doesn't measure up to us at all apart from the last two years.  That means that even if we have the worst season ever and Coach Rod is gone, we will be able to use our superior resources to hire a new, great coach.  We will be able to sell the ability to play in the Big House to recruits.  We can point to great players that we have produced that have done incredible things in the NFL.  MSU, however, will have to cut another academic program from the budget if they want to go out and hire a new coach after 3 or 4 more great 6 and 6 seasons by Dantonio (http://asumag.com/dailynews/michigan-state-university-budget-cut-eliminate-departments-20091102/), they can show them their ad0hoc stadium, and they can use Plax as an exemplar.

M-Wolverine

September 2nd, 2010 at 4:34 PM ^

What state of denial is it to say the teams have been even for a decade when before the last 2 wins you lost 6 in a row?? How close is that, no matter what the score..(and they weren't all close...remember 2002?). And really, it'd be even more than that, if MSU hadn't cheated to get their last win before that. Tack two more on, and it's 8 in a row. (It's ok to bring up what happened in the game, and not just the results, since you're saying they're all close, right...?0. Thank God for MSU fans who think 2 out of every 10 is competitive. It means you'll be satisfied with a lot less there, and never get really good.

Maximinus Thrax

September 2nd, 2010 at 12:04 PM ^

First

 

 but I am hoping  folks on here might consider joining me and refraining from vitriol or even backhanded compliments until we earn it on the field

 

and then

  The last 3 years have met their expectations. Even the 6 wins last year was ok.

and

They play a boring brand of football and their coach refuses to play to win games for whatever reason.

 

See, not bashing MSU is very hard

strafe

September 2nd, 2010 at 12:24 PM ^

Normally I keep to saying things about MSU that are factual and easy to back up: Inferior academics, smells bad, school for ugly people, etc.

Also their parties aren't even that good. $5 for a cup of Popov and Natty ice? No thanks, Sparty.

jrt336

September 2nd, 2010 at 12:31 PM ^

I don't totally get the points of this post, but we own MSU. So what if they've won 2 in a row for them first time in 40 years? They will always be our little brother.

Magnus

September 2nd, 2010 at 12:42 PM ^

We can talk all we want, but if our favorite team can't back it up on the field . . . that's really all that matters.

The "LOL Sparty" threads get old sometimes...

BlueTimesTwo

September 2nd, 2010 at 12:51 PM ^

Being better than Michigan in the past two years doesn't put MSU in rare company.  Pretty much everybody other than Indiana has been better than us in the Big Ten.  The difference is that MSU thinks that beating us means that they have accomplished some great feat, while others just enjoy taking advantage of our down years.

Honestly, though, I cannot explain the MSU hype for this year.  They seem to be in a similar position as we are (strong offense, questionable defense, some key players lost but many returning), yet while we are considered a borderline bowl qualifier, they are constantly receiving hype as a darkhorse candidate to win the Big Ten.  I just don't get it.

Mirasola

September 2nd, 2010 at 12:51 PM ^

To say that MSU is ruling the series right now is a stretch.  They won 2 years in a row - so what?  Let's not forget happened the past several years before then; it's just a matter of time before we're doing that again.

And 6 wins last season even for Sparty was disappointing for them - they should've done better.  Guess they're doomed for mediocrity.

jmblue

September 2nd, 2010 at 1:13 PM ^

Are you talking about actually talking shit to a Spartan fan to his face, or just making fun of them on the internet?  I agree that the former is just dumb, but it's not because we lost last year - it's just a tacky thing to do in general.  But as for posting on the internet, who cares?  Especially on a Michigan blog.  If they want to mock us on their board, hey, I don't care.  Just don't troll here.

blueblueblue

September 2nd, 2010 at 1:05 PM ^

Hmmmm, telling fans of opposing teams to not talk smack about each other. While it seems to be fundamentally opposed to what being a fan is all about, I think you might just be on to something...

bronxblue

September 2nd, 2010 at 1:09 PM ^

Hey, I didn't know we were playing MSU to start the season.  I thought it was some team out East, but obviously I am wrong, what with the MSU posts popping up all the time. 

/s

I'll agree to stop talking smack about MSU provided they stop maintaining a list of players RR "ran off" that includes people like Lloyd Carr, Bill Martin, Antonio Bass, and Donovan Warren.

Durham Blue

September 2nd, 2010 at 1:24 PM ^

is we should try to refrain from talking smack until we beat MSU under Rich Rod.  Sure, we have owned the series over the long haul but our current regime has not beaten them yet.  I hate Sparty as much as the next guy, but I agree with Nate in that it is better to refrain from smack talk until we drop the hammer to the tune of 60-24 this season.

blueblueblue

September 2nd, 2010 at 1:50 PM ^

I also understand, but I think it is not only unrealistic in terms of human nature to ask fans to not talk smack, it is silly to say that only the fans who won the last game can talk smack. Or the last two games. Why not the last three? Or four? Saying we cannot look further back than 2 years is arbitrary, especially when you go a few years beyond and which team has the winning record shifts. The OP's request ignores overarching records as well as many other aspects about the opposing teams, programs, schools. We might have to wait until we play them to say that we have a better team right now, but we can legitimately talk smack regarding quality of program, overall record, overall reputation, and so on.

MetricSU

September 2nd, 2010 at 1:44 PM ^

because he doesn't want the UM fan base looking worse than it already does. If, say, MSU wins again this year -- about a 47% change is what I estimate -- how silly will the UM fans predicting a 20-point victory look ? Nate already knows that UM fans look dumb when trying to talk smack about basketball. Nate is more like me: I try to get the MSU fans to tone it down and try to use a little reason when evaluating the two programs. Any Spartan fan predicting a blowout in MSU's favor in the Big House is just an ass.

It could also be that Nate has just a small space in his heart for the Spartans: he has a BA and JD from MSU. But I think it's more that he wants a way to justify his allegiance to UM. Unfortunately, one thing that the RichRod era has made abundantly clear: UM fans are no better than any others.

MrWoodson

September 2nd, 2010 at 2:26 PM ^

... they rule this series right now.

Are you baked? UM loses to MSU about 2-3 times per decade and they are about on track with that. And we lost last year's game in overtime in East Lansing using a team that did not even qualify for a bowl game. Except for occasionally snagging a in-state recruit that we actually do want, MSU is irrelevant.