More info on new OSU coach Chris Holtmann
It isn't 100% official yet, but after meeting last night, Butler's Chris Holtmann looks like he has agreed to terms with OSU. This personally devestating for me as a Butler grad, and it's horrible timing for the program. I'm also upset, because this is an excellent hire. Holtmann has been everything you would want as a coach and now will have top tier resources to work with. Here's some further info for those interested:
2014-15: 23-11, Kenpom 20 ( O-66, D-8) Round of 32 lost to ND
2015-16: 22-11, Kenpom 30 (O-15, D-97) Round of 32 lost to Virginia
2016-17: 25-9, Kenpom 25 (O-20, D-49). Sweet Sixteen before lost to eventual champion UNC
One of Holtmann's greatest acheivement iwas his ability to win despite inheriting a program that had step up a weight class without a roster equipped for it. He did this through versatility as the Kenpom numbers show. His first year he did it with elite defense, the second with offense, and this last season he finally found balance and a longer bench. In an odd twist, despite not having an elite unit, this past years team was by far the most successful. They notched wins against Arizona, Villanova (twice), IU (when they still looked like a top 5 team), Cincinnati, as well as a slew of Top 100 kenpom/RPI that aren't as eye catching.
Holtmann also had some huge successes as a recruiter, by Butler's standards. And it is a little scary to think what he's going to be like when he doesn't have to work so hard to get in the door with recruits.
2014 (not sure how much credit he get's for this class):
Kelan Martin- 139 on the 24/7 comp borderline 4 star. Beat out Xavier, Auburn, and WVU late.
Tyler Wideman- 270 on the 24/7 comp.Big time recruit who didn't develop through process and fell down rankings. Has been the backbone of their defense for two years now.
Jackson Davis- Late win that wasn't good enough
2015:
Nate Fowler: 263 on 24/7 comp. Another recruit that was highly sought after before tumbling due to injuries his senior year.
Sean McDermott: 333 on 24/7 comp. Developmental 3 and D wing from a smaller school in Indiana. JUST A SHOOTER.
2016:
Joey Brunk: 107 on 24/7 comp. One of the first real Butler recruiting wins against the big boys. Had IU, MSU, Purdue, Xavier offers that were legitimate.
Kamar Baldwin: 158 on 24/7 comp. True diamond in the rough find. Averaged 27 mpg, 10.1 ppg, 3.7 rpg, and 1.7 spg (Top 100 in the country) .
Henry Baddley: 292 on 24/7 comp. Another developmental athlete.
2017:
Kyle Young: 77 on 24/7 comp.Offers from everyone in the midwest plus Florida and others. Probably the biggest upset that Butler has ever pulled, at least in recruiting.
Christian David: 165 on 24/7 comp. Was solidly Top 100 to everyone before a ACL injury.
Aaron Thompson: 172 on 24/7 comp. Late decommit from Pitt that fell into Butler's lap.
Cooper Neese: 236 on 24/7 comp. Another small town Indiana gunner.
Jerald Butler: 242 on 24/7 comp. 6'5" swiss army knife.
As you can see the the last two years have seen a huge uptick in success. And the 2018 class was looking like it would be another step forward. Butler had been listed in top whatever lists by several top 50 type recruits. This is perfectly timed to submarine that.
Holtmann had also been quite successful in the transfer market. He's brought in Tyler Lewis (former McDonald's AA from NCST), Avery Woodson (Memphis), Kethan Savage (George Washington), Austin Etherington (IU), Jordan Gathers (St. Bonaventure) who all contributed to varying degrees.
Lastly he has been great managing personalities and playing time. Twice he has moved Tyler Lewis from a starter to key bench contributor in the middle of the season. He made a very bold move by takign their best scorer, Kelan Martin, and playing him in a sixth man role to get him out of a slump. They also had a string of tragedies over the last few years, and he has held them together well. They had a former player who was very close to the team die from cancer, one of the assistants newborn son passed away, Joey Brunks father became terminally ill during this last season, and one of their players' mother was diagnosed with cancer. On top of all that, they had their plane lose cabin pressure and be grounded mid flight. Suffice to say Holtmann has lead them through troubled waters on several occasions.
Curious why you thought this needed an entirely new thread and couldnt have been posted as content in the already established new OSU basketball coaching thread exactly one post below yours.
I mean it's good stuff you provided - just not sure why it needs an entirely new thread vs the one that's already been started.
mind MGrowOld. He's old. And crotchety. Emphasis on the crotch. But we like him.
Plus his Cavs are about to be swept in the Finals. He's allowed to be a little extra testy.
I said "good content" and just asked a question....no snark.
Tough room.
For those of us that typically only read the post and not hundreds of comments (I have to believe that this is the vast majority) this post is greatly appreciated. If I read the comments it's for entertainment, boredom, or I feel like arguing with someone, but not because i expect actual information. This post should be encouraged as it's one of the most informative posts I've seen in a while. Too often people seem to only care about being first to post and don't add context or any real information.
I'm with you as far as asking "do we need another thread about this?" I'd say that a lot of these add nothing to the conversation. However, I feel that the OP in this case put a ton of information together that would get lost or not enough attention in another "catch all" type thread like the one below it. On the whole, I do think that there should be more of a "should I start a new thread about this" question before the thread is actually started. This contained a lot of good information (as you said), so it's really not a problem.
This is excellent info worthy of a new topic even if there were 5 threads already. Thank you.
less is more, and more is more...obvs.
/s
No reason to whine about it.
starts in 3...2...1...
The year between Stevens and when Holtmann became the coach, they were bad. It's not a given that they were going to be good under Holtmann.
See my post below. While Stevens did a ton, they were actually facing a tone of negative momentum when Holtmann took over. Stevens was also a good but not great recruiter. I would actually argue that Holtmann has done more for the success of the basketball program going forward than Stevens did. I know that sounds like blasphemy.
but there is no platform for Holtmann to recruit and have the same success if Stevens doesn't take them to back to back title games. And with recruiting, you can't just look at the stars and rankings, Stevens recruited players that took BUTLER to back to back title games. He recruited Gordon Heyward. Scouting is a large part in recruiting, not just compiling stars.
First thing is the two NC apperances. While Brad Stevens is one of the greatest minds in all of basketball, even someone of that level needs some help to make it to the final Monday twice in a row. For Stevens that was having one of the best four year players in program history, and hitting on two three stars that turned into NBA players (one an all star). And that level of visibility allowed Butler to move to the Big East. However, while the program certainly has a winning culture the end of the Stevens era was much rockier than it may appear.
First, Stevens' last two years were a big step down in talent on the roster. Think of 2014-15 and 2015-16 under Beilein as close comparisons. In the 2011-12 year, Butler was 22-15 and finished fifth in the Horizon. The next year was the sole year in the A-10 and while the roster rebounded and had some big wins during the regular season it was still not to Big East level yet. They were 27-9, but struggled to beat the top flight of the A-10. Then Stevens left, and Barry Collier the AD bungled the coaching search and hired Brandon Miller instead of Lavall Jordan.
Butler went 14-17 without Stevens and was 4-14 in the Big East. They also lost six players to transfers and replaced them with.... Compounding this was the fact that Brandon Miller was not the fit. He had a "Medical Leave of Absence," which most people seem to believe was some sort of emotional instability combine with going AWOL on benders. Holtmann took over as interim coach took in a pretty desperate situation. He took a wonky roster that couldn't make the NIT the year before and promptly had a top 25 ish team and made the tournament.
The one critique you could place on Holtmann is he has achieved only what has been expected in the post season. They really should've beaten ND in 2015, as there was some very questionable officiating at the end of the game and OT. Then in both 2016 and 2017 they ran up against quite good one seeds and fought admirably, but couldn't beat them. I understand where that could come off as underwhelming to an outsider, but the fact that he even got them there with the totally disjunct roster is what was impressive to me. All three of those seasons the team was projected in the bottom half of the Big East, and not without reason. He has constantly reloaded in awkward situations.
From historic Hinkle Fieldhouse to...Value City Arena. What a big step up.
Exact same measurements...
Oh man you went full Hoosiers!
but if he's such a good coach, why was he OSU's 3rd or 4th choice?
He was initially contacted by them early in the week along with the Millers, Chris Mack, and others. He rebuffed them at that point. Also, he is much less flashy than other candidates, probably won't resonate as well with the fans until five years from now when they are winning.
TIL that Chris Holtmann's agent posts on MGoBlog.
I think this is a very underwhelming to bad hire. OSU is a near elite basketball program, and by that I mean not a blue blood but in the next tier so we're talking top 15 job. Matta showed you can win at a very high level there. And you give the job to a guy that was basically riding the coattails of Brad Stevens? Maybe it works out but his resume is very thin.
I think the proper move (given the timing of Matta's dismissal/retirement) would have been to go with an interim coach since the team is projected to possibly finish last in the B1G next year. I know people were dismissing Donovan to OSU, but what if OKC tanks next year and he gets fired and is suddenly available? What if better college candidates emerge next season?
Seems like they made a bad decision to fire Matta now rather than after the season, thus limiting the pool of replacements. And faced with that limited pool, they then struck out on their first choices and had to go with Holtmann.
That's a lot of praise for a guy with a .537 winning percentage in conference play.
I'm seeing a 34-20 (0.630) record in the Big East in 3 years as a HC (including his 1st year, when he was the interim HC). Looks like Holtmann was named Big South CoY in 2013 for rebuilding Gardner-Webb, and Big East CoY in 2017 for making it to the Sweet Sixteen.
I typed "conference play." If I had meant "Big East conference play," I would have typed that.
It seems strange to include Holtmann's Big South record on there when they aren't on a different level competitively from the Big East and other "Power Conferences."
All things considered, Holtmann did a pretty good job at Gardner-Webb (Big South), they were a bottom-feeder even in that conference and had a 7-21 record the season prior to Holtmann taking the job. By Holtmann's 3rd season, he had Gardner-Webb at 21-13, 2nd in the Big South, and earned the conference's CoY award.
Holtmann also took over as interim HC at Butler during their 2nd year as a Big East member, and has done fairly well as well as the "new kid on the block" for the last 3 seasons.