Mike Lantry, 1972
More conference ridiculousness: Big 12 and Big East are talking about merging
I am not sure what is ridiculous about it. If OU/OSU go to the Pac 12, the Big 12 as we have known it is dead. The Big East, with just 7 football schools (including the incoming TCU), is teetering on collapse. Merging the two is probably their best option.
Might be the most logical option at that point.
Don't worry though, there will be an entirely new proposed to-do on conference realignment in the next 12-18 hours.
1) There are not many UT fans outside of Texas, and even less in the Northeast
2) Nobody is going to carry the Longhone network outside of Texas and maybe Oklahoma on basic or basic plus. It won't happen. The 1 time every year or 2 that a Big East team plays UT and it's on the Longhorne Network will just mean a blackout or fans go to the bar.
That's about the best that the remnants could hope for. If they can not get in with the big boy conferences, then they are stuck with making something hopefully a little better than the MAC or Conference USA.
I think the only people that want this are the people in charge of the schools about to be frozen out of the SuperConferences. The IowaSts etc etc.
Yes, very logical ... if they also merge with what remains of the Mountain West. All the Big East, B12 AND Mountain West leftovers including independent BYU, nomad TCU, and big Texas market Houston from C-USA pull together: The 16-team "Big East/Mountain West" (BMW?) Conference.
Big East "Division": Baylor, Cincinnati, Houston, Iowa State, Kansas State, Louisville, South Florida, TCU.
Mountain West "Division": Air Force, Boise State, BYU, Colorado State, New Mexico, SDSU, UNLV, Wyoming.
This assumes UConn, Rutgers, Notre Dame, Kansas, Missouri and WVU all land in the ACC, B1G, and SEC in some way shape or form. But ultimately, this ADDS eight schools to the BCS, assuming the BMW gets at least one autobid. CFB goes from six autobid conferences involving 68 schools to five autobid conferences inclusive of 77 schools. 10 BCS games = 1 autobid for everyone and five more at-large, which would likely leave the BMW with only one but that third 11-1 whiner like Sparty last year gets a bid. Full of win.
That's an interesting idea, but I wouldn't necessarily include BYU and ND in that. They are both independents. If this BMW were to come to fruition, I think you would see UConn and Rutgers probably end up in the ACC, WVU in the SEC, ND and BYU remain independents, and then if Missouri goes to the SEC, that would leave Kansas to join the BMW. It's interesting to think about, but I don't know if we'll see the MWC get involved in this. Then again, who's to rule out anything at this point? This is just crazy.
You're on the right track, but the model needs fixing. First off, you're forgetting that Nevada, Hawaii, and Fresno State are joining the MWC next year. So the MWC isn't small enough to merge with both the Big 12 and Big East.
Second, I'm sure the Kansas legislature would act just like most other legislatures and demand that KU and KSU be a package deal wherever they go. Kansas probably can't go anywhere without K-State.
This would suck for the Big East leftovers, but Louisville, Cincy, and USF have been Big East schools for all of about six or seven years, so I can't muster much sympathy. (Back to CUSA with you.) But I think the Big 12's best option is to merge with the MWC and invite TCU. If there are only five Big 12 schools left (I'm thinking ISU, Baylor, Mizzou, and the Kansas schools) then it makes for a fairly logical 16-team conference that could snag a BCS bid.
If I did my math right, this leaves the combined total membership of the ACC, B1G and SEC at 45. I get that they wouldn't necessarily have to go to 16 each, but if they did which schools would be the three to get them there? And, if they took some from the BMW, what three previously excluded teams might get the 5 autobid conferences to 80 total?
The Big East commissioner's rant from yesterday was quoted in that article, which was also discussed at length by Greenberg this morning on Mike & Mike.
Best part of the rant: His use of the term fiefdom. That's right, FIEFDOM.
With the two merging, you'd have a 12-team conference that, while not exactly dominant on the college scale, would be strong enough to maintain an AQ bid. Considering how many teams have made BCS games in the past five years (Kansas, WVU, Cincy, TCU), they'd probably be no worse off than the Big East was before. They might even make a play at BYU or Houston to bump up to 14 (or to protect themselves if WVU goes to the SEC).
Won't happen Oklahoma's academic standards aren't up to par with the rest of the B1G.
is that for all their crying about not getting a shot at the BCS, Boise State is eerily silent throughout all of this.
Sure, there's something to be said about being loyal to the Mountain West, but if ever there was a time to jump up and take advantage of a situation, Boise State has the most to gain here. Obviously they've missed their shot into the PAC-MILLION or whatever it'll be called, but what's floating out there right now is not one automatic BCS conference bid, but two.
If I'm Boise State I look to line myself up for one of those automatic bids, both for competition and cash. Maybe they're assuming the stars will align for the Mountain West once the dust settles, and they'll become a full-fledged BCS conference when all is said and done.... but what if they don't?? Could you imagine the furor if, after all of the panic is over, the Mountain West is still sitting on the outside???
This actually makes more sense than most of the other idiocy, like rumors of ND to the ACC.
How pissed is TCU right about now? They finally get accepted into a major conference and said conference is now imploding before their eyes. Brutal.
where is your jesus now, TCU?
It's still going to be one gigantic leftover conference, and it will be a combination of the ACC, Big East, and Big 12. They are all grasping at straws, trying not to be left behind. Conference presidents have some pretty cushy, well-paying jobs, and plenty of staffers. Nobody wants to lose a job these days, but these guys REALLY don't want to lose theirs.
Five superconferences would work; it would just require a play-in or an extra round of games. If there were five, they could have two wild-card teams play for a sixth slot and then seed the top two teams into the semis, while having a 3-6 game for one semifinal berth and a 4-5 game for the other one.
Four would be a lot neater, but five would still be compelling, and they could allow the "best of the great unwashed" an opportunity to play in to their playoff, thus avoiding a massive lawsuit or antitrust action.
The "BIg East" is NOT just the remaining football losers (WVU, Louisville, Cincinnati & South Florida). It includes G'town, S'Hall, St. J's, Marquette, DePaul, etc. etc.
So these mega-combos of the Big LEast with Big XII(V) and TCU and Boise State etc. etc. ... well a 16-team football conference would have, like 24 basketball schools.
Are we looking at a scenario where the Big LEast non-football schools remain the "Big East," but the football bretheren split off to form a mega-football conference.
big least? that's just lazy.
I'm counting 5 conferences that have between 12 and 14 teams.
|ACC||Big Ten||Pacific-12||SEC||Big East/Big 12|
|2||Clemson||Indiana||Arizona State||Arkansas||Iowa State|
|4||Florida State||Michigan||Colorado||Florida||Kansas State|
|5||Georgia Tech||Michigan State||Oregon||Georgia||Missouri|
|6||Maryland||Minnesota||Oregon State||Kentucky||Oklahoma State|
|7||Miami (FL)||Nebraska||Stanford||LSU||Texas Tech|
|8||North Carolina||Northwestern||UCLA||Mississippi State||Cincinnati|
|9||North Carolina State||Ohio State||USC||Ole Miss||Connecticut|
|10||Virginia||Penn State||Utah||South Carolina||Louisville|
|12||Wake Forest||Wisconsin||Washington State||Vanderbilt||South Florida|
|13||Pittsburgh||Texas||Texas A&M||West Virginia|
Texas Tech and Ok State are going to the Pac-12 with their big brothers. And you can add TCU to the BE/B12 Left-Behind Conference.
SEC needs to add another team, likely Missouri from the Big Least / Big Not-XII.
Also, UConn and Rutgers are pretty strong guesses to go to the ACC -- unless Notre Dame wants into ACC, in which case, it'll be UConn and ND.
So, the Big Least / Big Not-XII combo is really at 9 or 10 teams, likely. If they add Boise State and maybe a couple of C-USA or MWC teams (e.g. Central Florida, Air Force, Colorado State, etc.), they can get to 12 or even 16.
However, addressing my question above -- what if you add the non-football Big Least teams into that right column (G'Town etc.) -- how many would you have for bball?
If they weren't such greedy and obnoxious dickheads, the Big 12 would still be intact, ND would have joined the Big Ten, and the expansion and inter-conference musical chairs wouldn't be nearly this nuts. It would mean we wouldn't have Nebraska, but from an athletic point of view having ND instead would be fine.
Basically, yes. TV snobbery by those two schools killed the Big 12. Which is why I think it's sad when uninformed greedy fans of both the Big Ten and ACC say "let's get Texas and ND!"
I think our destiny is clear. We need to follow in the footsteps of the old WCHA hegemony and catalyze a geographically impossible superconference composed only of Michigan, Ohio State, and the Preseason Top 10 every year.
One of the commenters in the link had a good point. The reason the Big East is so fragile and poachable is because there is nothing real that binds it. It is just a collection of schools that happened to be available that have no common geography, culture, or history.
There is nothing about USF or Louisville that defines the Big East the way Wisconsin or Michigan define the Big Ten, or the way Alabama or Ole Miss define the SEC.
There is a lot to be said for regional, cultural, and historical continuity. That's why the Big Ten and SEC expansions of a couple decades ago were successful. The new Big 12/Big East refugee camp will be an unstable mess.
After every single decent team leaves I wonder if the BCS will let them field an allstar team so they can compete during the holiday season.
This is the least ridiculous development so far
but it's bad news for those of us who want Notre Dame