Monday Perspective.

Submitted by MichiganMan14 on
Sounds cliche' but it's definitely a red/blue pill scenario for our football program. I think highly of Brady as a man. I do not think he is a very effective head coach. Recruits love him and he gets our tradition. Is it worth the 4-6 losses a year? I don'tthink so but firing Hoke does nothing without a subsequent "Home Run" hire. I hate the thought of another 3 year build up but perhaps if we hire the right guy, he could reasonably find success in year one with the talent that Brady amassed. Our players could simply start playing for Brady and save his job. I just don't see the passion that I saw growing up in this program. I think Michigan has a chance to squeeze 7 or 8 more wins out of this season but it will take a monumental turn around, quarterback change and a sincere gut check. Who are we anymore? We don't have a defined identity. I think moving Gardner back to WR and starting Shane Is the best move for the program at this time. It accelerates his development and chemistry with the offense, which is nearly back in its entirety next season. It also allows Devin to show case his talent to NFL scouts in a realistic position. Devin could possibly play WR in the league. QB is a stretch. I haven't lost hope for Michigan football and you shouldn't either. We are not a top 25 program right now but we are not that far away despite how it seems. There may need to be a change at the top and most of us can sense that it's coming. While we are at it I'd love to see a move back to Nike. Adidas has not been a fortunate branding for us. The turnaround begins this Saturday along with B1G play. I remember 2007 and we were in the same position. Let the theatre that is this miserable start to this season play out. I have a feeling that we may make dram out of this thing yet. Does it annoy anyone else that Arizona is 4-0? Karma?
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mGrowOld

September 22nd, 2014 at 2:43 PM ^

Sounds cliche' but it's definitely a red/blue pill scenario for our football program.
What the fuck does that even mean?
 
I think highly of Brady as a man.
I'm sure that means a lot to him right now.
 
I do not think he is a very effective head coach.
Why is that?  Did something bad happen this weekend?
 
Recruits love him and he gets our tradition.
So I've heard
 
Is it worth the 4-6 losses a year?
Um....no?
 
I don'tthink so but firing Hoke does nothing without a subsequent "Home Run" hire.
At this point I'd take the proverbial "bunt single" hire
 
I hate the thought of another 3 year build up but perhaps if we hire the right guy, he could reasonably find success in year one with the talent that Brady amassed.
Seems like a reasonable assumption...go on.....
 
Our players could simply start playing for Brady and save his job.
Yup - that could happen.  Prolly won't tho
 
I just don't see the passion that I saw growing up in this program. 
I don't see a LOT of things I saw growing up in this program.  Wins, full stadium, the band, free water, passing up coeds, kegs of beer in the stadium, etc.
 
I think Michigan has a chance to squeeze 7 or 8 more wins out of this season but it will take a monumental turn around, quarterback change and a sincere gut check.
It will also take scoring more points than the opposition 7-8 times too.
 
Who are we anymore? We don't have a defined identity.
We're Michigan fergodsakes - Jesus that was an easy one.
 
I think moving Gardner back to WR and starting Shane Is the best move for the program at this time. It accelerates his development and chemistry with the offense, which is nearly back in its entirety next season. It also allows Devin to show case his talent to NFL scouts in a realistic position. Devin could possibly play WR in the league. QB is a stretch.
Pro-tip: Don't quit your day job and look for a scouting position anytime soon.
 
I haven't lost hope for Michigan football and you shouldn't either. We are not a top 25 program right now but we are not that far away despite how it seems.
Really?  What games have you been watching this year?
 
There may need to be a change at the top and most of us can sense that it's coming.
Nothing gets by you now does it?
 
While we are at it I'd love to see a move back to Nike. Adidas has not been a fortunate branding for us.
Random thought alert - Random thought alert!
 
The turnaround begins this Saturday along with B1G play.
Um...ok?  But what about Nike?
 
I remember 2007 and we were in the same position.
Brady's fixing to retire at the end of the year?  Who knew?
 
Let the theatre that is this miserable start to this season play out.
Do we have a choice here?
 
I have a feeling that we may make dram out of this thing yet.
Why?  And what's a "dram" anyways?
 
Does it annoy anyone else that Arizona is 4-0? Karma?
Nope - they have a fun, energetic new coach who should still be here IMO but got treated like absolute shit by people who put their own agendas ahead of the program and we're still paying for their selfishness today.  I hope they go 14-0.

Go Blue

Joined: 10/04/2010

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ken725

September 22nd, 2014 at 2:56 PM ^

Nope - they have a fun, energetic new coach who should still be here IMO but got treated like absolute shit by people who put their own agendas ahead of the program and we're still paying for their selfishness today. I hope they go 14-0.
Couldn't have said it better. I hope those people are happy that they got a coach who plays "Michigan football."

Joined: 10/26/2008

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westwardwolverine

September 22nd, 2014 at 3:20 PM ^

I assure you there will be a mouth breather on here to inform you that through the same point in three seasons at Michigan, Hoke has a better record than RR at Arizona, as if RR inherited anything close to the same level of talent or Arizona has anywhere close to the same recruiting pull as Michigan. 

Hopefully this deters them. 

Joined: 11/26/2013

MGoPoints: 9007

GoWings2008

September 22nd, 2014 at 2:56 PM ^

I'd be bringing over a bottle of whiskey and we'd be drinking it right now.  Well, actually, after seeing a picture of your bar not long ago, I'd be walking over and we'd be drinking your booze.  But you get my drift...

BTW, a dram is a small amount of whiskey, just FYI.

Joined: 01/26/2011

MGoPoints: 69675

LordGrantham

September 22nd, 2014 at 3:12 PM ^

"I hope they go 14-0."

Well, guess what, they won't.  Do you know why they won't?  Because their defense under Rich Rodriguez is a joke, just like our defense under Rich Rodriguez was a joke.  It's unfathomable to me that people can watch Arizona squeak by a terrible Cal team on a hail mary and say "We should've kept that guy!"

Joined: 01/01/2014

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ccdevi

September 22nd, 2014 at 2:44 PM ^

I really am...

" I think highly of Brady as a man.

I do not think he is a very effective head coach.

Is it worth the 4-6 losses a year?

firing Hoke does nothing without a subsequent "Home Run" hire.

QB is a stretch.

We are not a top 25 program right now but we are not that far away despite how it seems.

There may need to be a change at the top"

We're dead we really are.  nothing will ever change.

Joined: 08/08/2010

MGoPoints: 801

WoodleyIsBeast

September 22nd, 2014 at 2:50 PM ^

I've heard this frequently, and I have to say, Michigan recruits itself. Hoke is the conduit, but let's not misrepresent the fact that Michigan recruits exceptionally well with or without Hoke.

Joined: 09/24/2009

MGoPoints: 39727

PurpleStuff

September 22nd, 2014 at 3:44 PM ^

RR's first class was ranked 8th overall on Rivals.  It also produced a bunch of really good players (like, way more than Hoke's first class, and it isn't even close).  Then Dave Brandon got hired and started telling recruits he had no idea who the coach would be by the time anybody got to campus.  While former Carr players were telling kids to go to State (and Rodriguez had only finished two seasons here, completely with leftover players he hadn't recruited).  He got two full classes and had no instiutional support by the time the second one was ready to sign.

Rodriguez built WVU into a powerhouse that won multiple BCS bowls against power conference champions.  He built a team that went 11-2 here.  Arizona is going to keep getting better as guys like Solomon and Jones come into the fold.  Hoke's last class was ranked 31st on Rivals.  This year's is 18th.  So the bullshit of judging recruiting based on websites rather than results doesn't support the guy anymore either.

Saying Hoke is a good recruiter because Kalis and Pipkins had lots of stars next to their names is at this point completely idiotic. 

 

Joined: 04/21/2009

MGoPoints: 15969

BlueGoM

September 22nd, 2014 at 2:50 PM ^

4-0 yes, but he is playing at Oregon this week, IIRC.

Anyway,  was there doubt he'd be successful there? this time he appears to have some semblance of a defense -  he managed to bring over his DC from WVU (Casteel)  so he has someone to run his favored 3-3-5 defense.

He also probably has managed to not piss off half the former Ariz. players and coaches, and so might actually be getting the support you would want to get as the HC.

 

Joined: 08/25/2009

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alum96

September 22nd, 2014 at 2:56 PM ^

Can we STFU about RR.  He beat CAL and its 1 win last year, and 3 baby seals.  He next faces UCLA, USC Oregon, Washington State etc - you know the part of the schedule where his teams face real teams and after a fast start implode?  He will continue to 8-5 it in the Pac 12 every year with 3 of those wins coming versus baby seals - and pull off 1 big win every 2 years due to a big offense in a conference that doesnt play defense other than Stanford.  Thats good enough for ASU.  Not here long term.

2 wrongs dont make a right.  Hoke nor RR were the right coaches.  Move on.

Joined: 04/28/2012

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alum96

September 22nd, 2014 at 3:31 PM ^

RR had a class of 5 WRs, all of which flamed out aside from Dileo.  And that class had 2 OL.  RR would have won in 2011 just like Hoke did.  Maybe not 11 games because he was not given money to get a DC.  So he would have won 9 games maybe (or 10) in 2011 due to the schedule, OSU being a joke, etc. 

Then 2012 would have happened and he'd be facing the same black hole his recruiting brought us on the OL.  And 2013.  And 2014.   Combined with a much worse defense than Mattison has given us.  The 2011 team people focus on Denard and the offense but that defense improved from 100 something to top 15.  That would not have happened under RR.

I am not a RR hater.  I thought after being rejected by a few other candidates he was a great fall back option.  He looked like a big winner at WVA.  What has been proven in the interim is the Big east of the 2000s is the Big 10 of the 2010s.  He won big in a sh** conference - kudos to him.  We cannot even win average in a sh** conference anymore.  For various reasons it didnt work out and I am only "mad" because people keep revising history - we had an offense that did well versus baby seals and average Big 10 teams.  Most (not all) of the time it faced a good defense it sucked.  And our defense was a joke.

re: Oregon - as I said his offense will go off here and there and allow for a stunning win versus a real team.  In between that he will have a lot of 45-34 games - sometimes winning sometimes losing.  The same score most of the time.  His offense will stun baby seals along the way.   It is what it is and he is at the right school for that.   In the righ conference where 40-37 is a typical score.  I have no ill will to him and wish him the best - it was not a good fit here for various reasons and why people want to keep bringing him up now is beyond me.

Joined: 04/28/2012

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PurpleStuff

September 22nd, 2014 at 4:09 PM ^

Let's dissect Beilein's record after 3 years, assume things can't get better, discredit his past accomplishments, and then fire that West Virginia hillbilly.  Then when he takes over a 4-8 team that lost an NFL QB (Foles), its top RB, and top 3 WR and immediately has the new school playing above their historical norm (and at a higher level than Michigan), let's continue to nitpick and make assumptions rather than waiting until year 4 and beyond to see what kind of team he is actually building (you know, the mistake people made when they assumed Michigan was headed in the wrong direction with RR and the right direction with the Hokester).

Sounds pretty fucking dumb, doesn't it.  But Beilein showed less promise after three years here, had done less (RR's WVU teams beat the Big 12 and SEC champs in bowl games, so not sure how much merit LOL-BigEast has), and inherited a stronger team (Harris, Simms, and Udoh had the makings of a strong nucleus).  I'm glad we didn't fire him after three years.

 

Joined: 04/21/2009

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snarling wolverine

September 22nd, 2014 at 5:12 PM ^

Hell, the dude gave us a gift wrapped 11 win season, if that's not the truth then what is?
I don't think that's the truth at all. I don't think for a minute that the Richrod/Gerg/Gibson brain trust would have gotten our D to play anywhere near the level it did. RichRod was a good offensive coach but bad defensive coach. Hoke seems to be the reverse. 2011 was the best of both worlds in that we basically had a RichRod offense and Hoke defense.

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KC Wolve

September 22nd, 2014 at 2:51 PM ^

If you say things like "I like Hoke and he is a good man", or "Hoke is a nice guy" or "Hoke loves this or that". It has to be prefaced with, "we had dinner and......" I know him personally and......

Also, I don't give a shit if he is nice or not. Winning football games and be a dick sounds awesome.

Joined: 10/09/2010

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Tulip Time

September 22nd, 2014 at 2:55 PM ^

From someone who has never made a thread.

Whenever you put a period at the end of your thread title, it is a flashing neon sign that you have made a terrible post. I don't know why. I am not sure what in the human psyche causes snowflake posters to put periods at the end of their thread titles. Maybe it's a subconscious way of saying "I have heard all of your thoughts, but my thoughts are superior?"  Or "these thoughts are going to be the end of the discussion?" I don't know. Whatever the cause, don't do it because the first thing you are communicating is condescension toward the readers, which doesn't usually go over well around here.

Joined: 01/05/2012

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MStopRed

September 22nd, 2014 at 4:04 PM ^

Exactly. Besides, I'd rather be building for another 3 years then have another 3 years of guaranteed MAC runner-up quality.

The calculus should be simple. In year 4 you know what you have with Hoke. You also should know what you would like your team to be. Do the two things come close to matching? No? Then there's only one rational thing to do. I could understand if there is simply no coach in America better than Hoke and you're just stuck, but come on. Really? Michigan can't afford to get any coach better than this and has to wait around until it can? Ok then...

Joined: 08/26/2013

MGoPoints: 402

markusr2007

September 22nd, 2014 at 3:03 PM ^

and No. 3 in total defense?  Baylor

NCAA Total Offense Rankings as of 9/22:

Rank Team G Plays YDS Yds/Play Off TDs TDs YPG
1 Baylor 3 253 1963 7.76 25 25 654.3
2 Texas A&M 4 304 2450 8.06 29 29 612.5
3 Western Ky. 3 276 1826 6.62 16 17 608.7
4 Marshall 4 304 2387 7.85 23 23 596.8
5 Arizona 4 340 2375 6.99 20 20 593.8
6 Alabama 4 312 2350 7.53 21 21 587.5
7 East Carolina 4 310 2326 7.50 22 23 581.5
8 Nebraska 4 289 2239 7.75 21 23 559.8
9 Oregon 4 273 2221 8.14 26 27 555.3
10 West Virginia 4 354 2206 6.23 17 18 551.5
 
NCAA Total Defense as of 9/22
 
Rank Team G Plays YDS Yds/Play Off TDs Opp TDs YPG
1 Stanford 3 169 613 3.63 1 1 204.3
2 TCU 2 135 411 3.04 2 3 205.5
3 Baylor 3 195 663 3.40 3 3 221.0
4 Pittsburgh 4 230 944 4.10 9 9 236.0
5 Alabama 4 222 1001 4.51 3 5 250.3
6 Oregon St. 3 184 765 4.16 7 7 255.0
7 Louisville 4 249 1026 4.12 6 6 256.5
8 Michigan 4 248 1044 4.21 8 9 261.0
9 Wisconsin 3 181 798 4.41 5 5 266.0
10 Penn St. 4 245 1083 4.42 5 5 270.8

Things could be a lot worse you guyz....

In the age old "defense wins championships" theory, Michigan should win the fucking Big Ten this year. 

Entropy's response to "defense wins championships" is ironically rather predictable: "Fuck you! Not when you're turning the ball over 4 times a game!"

 

 

Joined: 10/21/2008

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triguy616

September 22nd, 2014 at 3:08 PM ^

We are hot dog water. We are lukewarm, the memory of a good backyard barbeque too long past, cleaning up the trash. We are the scent of the real thing, but it's not how we remember. We are not meat, We slip through fingers. We are Brady Hoke, joking about ourselves more than we realize. We are hot dog water, nothing but waste, waiting to be dumped. Oh, how I wish to be the hot dog.

Joined: 10/02/2010

MGoPoints: 1459