Monday 6/13 OSU Thread (2:19 PM)
To avoid 13 threads for the day on very small minor elements of the ongoing disaster on Columbus (or at least try to), here's a regularly updated thread on the latest:
Attorney Cicero likely facing disciplinary charges for role in leaking info to Tressel after Ohio Supreme Ct files charges
"During the meeting, Rife expressed his concern that their conversation would remain confidential," the disciplinary documents said. "(Cicero) assured Rife that everything Rife told (Cicero) would remain confidential.
"Rife proceeded to tell (Cicero) all the details surrounding his involvement in criminal activity. Rife also explained to (Cicero) how he came into possession of the OSU memorabilia seized during the raid."
Right after the meeting, Cicero sent an email to Tressel, "divulging much of the information that Rife had told (him) in confidence."
Pryor has signed with Drew Rosenhaus - they deserve each other
Pryor's lawyer, Larry James, said Monday that Pryor was in Miami and had signed an agreement with Rosenhaus, a high-powered agent who represents some of the biggest names in sports.
Ohio State University President E. Gordon Gee told the school's latest graduating class that the scandal surrounding the football program is "a temporary condition.'' Gee spoke to 9,700 graduates
Ohio State University President E. Gordon Gee told the school's latest graduating class that the scandal surrounding the football program is "a temporary condition.''
Gee spoke to 9,700 graduates - a school record - and close to 40,000 friends and family Sunday and could not help but at least touch on the recent upheaval in the football program.
"Let me acknowledge on this day of celebration, in this cathedral of triumph and hope, that many Buckeye hearts are heavy,'' Gee said. "On rare occasion, this great grand building has been home to disappointment and tumult. That is but a temporary condition.''
Report: Ohio State Parents Who Named Children After Jim Tressell Have No Regrets
Parents who named their children after former Ohio State coach Jim Tressel said they had no regrets at the choice following his resignation in disgrace from the football program, The Columbus Dispatch reported Monday.
Twenty newborns in Ohio have been named after Tressel since January 2003, when the coach guided the Buckeyes to the national championship, the newspaper said.
I like this. Much better than 20 extra threads a day.
Yeah but one thread will considerably accelerate the deterioration of my beloved F5 key...
with time of recent news story
I definitely don't mind the one thread as long as the OP takes the time to update the OP with any relevant updates so I don't have to keep scanning the comments for them.
It's better to have ten different aspects with around 50 comments each. One giant catchall with over 200 replies is just a clusterfuck.
My god, my head is going to asspload. It's like a g'damned soap opera. A new twist every day. A tragic comedy maybe?
Twist and shout ! C'mon, c'mon baby now ... work it on out !!! ououououu ...
Gotta dance to this !!!
Go Blue !
Paid for by Jim tressel
Eleven Warriors is truly starting to lose it. Today, in their own version of the UV (referred to as "Skull Session") poster "Jason" finally makes the claim that "Everybody Does It" applies to this situation, even going so far as to point a finger at Denard Robinson:
"You don't have to be a genius to realize improper benefits, whether in the form of comped meals/drinks or sweetheart deals on cars, happens at a lot of places (except State College, where no player has ever received a free meal evidently). We happened to have a handful of investigative reporters in town turning up all of our dirty laundry, thanks to Tressel blood being in the water, but what would happen if those same guys turned up at other schools? Would they wonder who's handing out the rims in Tuscaloosa, or how one man is selling 12 items signed by Denard Robinson? Maybe."
Yeah, if only there were a newspaper that is desperate to find dirt on Michigan. Lucky for us there isn't one.
Notice the lack of offical signed football equipment.
GunnersApe you are all about the lack of official signed equipment.
Their(OSU fan base) trying to equate TP to DR and some weird way and I'm pointing out the Jon falk/UM plaryers don't steal their shit defense.
No it's a great point, and an important one, I was just making light of seeing you say it 2-3 times today.
Just trying to beat the point to death before it gets any legs. Enjoy my break-dancing cousin while we wait for the press conf.
SportsbyBrooks...It's a good read.
http://www.sportsbybrooks.com/delanys-failure-to-monitor-exposes-osu-coverup-29751
I've read that article three times and still have no idea what he's trying to say. He writes like a third-grader wearing mittens.
He's saying that it looks like OSU should get hit with a Failure to Monitor or a LOIC charge because Delaney said (and OSU wouldn't deny) that a FOIA request was responsible for bringing up the Tressel charges when OSU claimed they found it during an internal legal investigation.
If that is, in fact, true (which I just can't believe it is) than OSU flat out lied in their self reporting documents, and lied in a way that will easily be cleared up after an AP/ESPN lawsuit for the FOIA requests received by the university. If that's true, the sky is the limit for their punishment, IMO.
"a FOIA request was responsible for bringing up the Tressel charges when OSU claimed they found it during an internal legal investigation."
Yes, the internal legal investigation into which documents should be released to comply with the FOIA request.
(They haven't admitted this yet, but I'd lay odds....)
That's still a very big discrepancy between what they reported to the NCAA and the facts on the ground ("separate legal investigation" was their wording). I don't see how this doesn't completely screw them over if it's true.
That's why I'm curious about the 4pm press conf.
#1 Does Fickell talk like Adam Sandler ala water boy?
#2 Does Gee stick his foot in his mouth again? What bow tie does he wear?
#3 How does AD Gene "No problems here" Smith spin these new shit sandwiches they get to enjoy?
#4 Favorite popcorn for such an event? Me I like Movie Theater Butter.
Perhaps a response to a FOIA request counts as an independent internal legal investigation, in their version of reality?
We're talking about TSIO and its complaince department, so their version of reality and mine ... differ. In my world, we're looking at failure to monitor at a minimum.
Cicero is OSU in a nutshell. Confidentiality? Who cares about that when the Sacred Brotherhood is in danger?
We haven't even reached those dark OSU days when the coaching change leads to dimished roles for some, doghouse for others, and disgruntled players/transferees start telling tales.
We are still at the very front end of this story and that makes me happy.
This is the start of the 2nd Q of a 4 Q game.
First smart move by Pryor. This instantly makes him ineligible and clears the way for the supplemental draft without having to wait for tSIO to make a determination on his status.
That SOB Tressel didn't show up for the rule seminar as per his punishent from OSU. /s
(No really it's being reported on the ESPN ticker)
What major clients does Rosenhaus currently have? I know he has alot, but alot of his really elite players are kind of over the hill at this point. He specializes in players with two digit IQ's, so this is perfect.
Here's a list of his NFL Clents.
Dispatch has this item: Tressel skips rules seminar
In the wake of his resignation from Ohio State, Jim Tressel opted not to attend the rules compliance seminar in Tampa, Fla., last week.
The seminar was to be part of his school-imposed punishment for committing a major NCAA rules violation.
. . .
Two high-profile coaches whose programs recently ran afoul of NCAA rules - Connecticut men's basketball coach Jim Calhoun and former Michigan football coach Rich Rodriguez - did attend the seminar.
The article also touches on whether or not Tressel should attend OSU's appearance before the NCAA Committee on Infractions on August 12.
I have been wondering about Cicero's professional responsibility problem from the start. His problem was not that he went to Tressel with information about the scandal -- it was that the only information he had was from his client and was therefore confidential. If you are an attorney (and I am one), you can't divulge client information without the client's consent. (I realize you all know this.) It was clear to me that Cicero was so interested in becoming important to insider goings on in Buckeyeland and ingratiating himself with Tressel that he did not give his obligations to his own client a second thought.
It was funny when Tressel lamely excused his (alleged) failure to disclose the emails to the OSU administration because Cicero told him they were confidential. (At first we didn't know that Tressel immediately forwarded the emails to Sarniak.) What was funny to me was that I was sure Cicero did tell Tressel that the infomation was confidential -- because Cicero knew he was violating his obligation of confidentiality to his client by making his disclosures to Tressel and wanted that covered up.
I have no idea how severe a penalty might be imposed on Cicero for violation of his duty of confidentiality. However, since Cicero's blabber mouth may have brought down the Buckeye football program (a notch or two or three), I would expect that the politics of the situation are against him in the Ohio Supreme Court, based in Columbus.
Cicero was in trouble with the Office of Disciplinary Counsel once previously for intimating he had an "in" with a judge on a case because he had a sexual relationship with her. This won't go well for him. Are all these people involved with tosu really stupid or what? Cicero did not realize that if you are going to violate your professional obligations, don't leave electronic tracks? He deserves whatever he gets, although I sort of view him as an inadvertent hero.
It is impossible to disagree with the notion that Cicero violated a duty of confidentiality owed to a potential (I'll come back to "potential" in a minute) client. That's bad, and given that it involved a criminal matter, was an especially greivous abuse of the confidentiality that Cicero owed to a client, even a dirtbag client like Rife.
What Cicero did, was to put his loyalty to the OSU football program above his professional responsibility.
I suspect that Cicero thought that he could get away with it, if Tressel kept it secret. Or at least kept it credibly anonymous. And that it would be good for everybody in the end. Tressel could get the players to stay way from Rife. The authorities wouldn't get any more prosecuatbale information against Rife. The OSU program could be cleaned up, quietly and with no harm done to any individuals. Didn't happen that way, of course.
But this brings us to another point. That is, Tressel's initial claim that he thought that he was operating under some sort of weird confidentiality rule himself with the information, and that he (Tressel) could not say anything to OSU Compliance. People -- people like the MGoBlog membership -- were laughing at Tressel for that assertion. People were pointing out that Cicero was not in fact Rife's attorney of record, and there was never any confidentiality to worry about and what the heck was Tressel talking about?
But in fact, there seems to be little doubt that Tressel would very likely have heard something from Cicero along the lines of; Coach, I am telling you this, because I truly care about the program, and you, and these kids. I could lose my law license for telling you this, if word gets out. So you have to promise me that this is totally confidential. You can't tell anyone. But I am honestly worried about the players getting involved with this guy because he is a very bad actor who is getting himself into huge trouble with the feds, and those details I don't need to get into with you.
So I am guessing that what Tressel heard, from a lawyer, was to not tell anybody else about this. Tressel was under no such duty of confidentiality, and had he been going by the book, he would have told Cicero; Chris, I appreciate this, but we have got to report stuff like this to Compliance. If I can protect you as a source of this information, I will, but I have to talk to Gene Smith and our own lawyers about that. I'm sorry that Tressel didn't do that. He should have, but he didn't. What he apparently did do, was to tell the players to stay away from Rife and Fine Line.
Still, I am struck that overall, the details of Cicero's ethics case adds to the importance and magnitude of the original Cicero-to-Tressel disclosure. And how much pressure that situation put on Tressel, to decide whose life he was going to screw up by telling anybody. Cicero? Rife? PryorPoseyHerronAdamsThomas? Gene Smith? His own life and career?
As yet another lawyer with an opinion, there are a few things you say with which I disagree.
First, we have to wait and see whether Cicero did get permission from Rife to pass limited information to Tressel. The argument you provided for why it would make sense would tend to make me wonder whether he either did get permission (prudence would indicate getting it in writing but it may not have seemed likely to be as big of a deal to Cicero as it turned out to be, so oral permission might be his defense) or did act in the interest of his client. If the purpose of his disclosure was to help his client, then it might fall within trial tactics instead of unauthorized disclosure.
As to your second point, that it put pressure on Tressel because of what you imagine Tressel heard from Cicero, my reaction is that I have yet to hear of a phone call between Tressel and Cicero where such information passed. I doubt that your imaginary phone call ever occurred for the simple reason that if such a phone call had occurred, then there would have been no reason for the email. Cicero would have simply passed the information along to Tressel during that same phone call.
So, I would not give Tressel nearly as much credit as you appear to be giving him. He was faced with a tough choice, but the choice was to act appropriately and have his 2010 season go up in smoke or to take a chance that no one would find out and keep his prospects for a winning season intact.
I did NOT presume that Cicero got permission from Rife to talk to Tressel. It would have been very interesting if he had. No; my understanding is that Cicero never had such permission, and that in fact Cicero never undertook Rife's representation at the time of the federal grand jury. (Not that it matters; as we both know, even potential clients are owed confidentiality and complete loyalty.)
The fact that Cicero did not have such permission to reveal confidences from a potential client, makes his case virtually impossible to defend.
My only point was that under these circumstances, it would have been quite likely for Tressel to have heard from Cicero something along the lines of, I'm telling you this, to help you protect the program. Get those kids away from Rife. You needed to hear this. But if anybody finds out that I told you, I'll lose my license.
And that is the horrible choice that Tressel was left with.
Not a lawyer, but I work in tax. Therefore, I have a lot of legal colleagues. I recall a saying that one imparted on me that went: say it, forget it; write it, regret it. Cicero should have had NO expectation of confidentiality when he put his message in an e-mail. It sucks for him that the consequences of his choice may be catastrophic, but his eyes were wide open when he made that choice.
As for Tressel, I agree that he has put in a very awkward position that was not invited, certainly one that really had lots of potential negative outcomes for the parties involved. But that's why he (was) paid the big bucks. His employer valued his judgment and expected that good judgments would be made in his employer's best interests if he was ever put in a pickle. Sometimes people in power have to make decisions that produce negative consequences to others. Again, his eyes were wide open when he made his choice. If you can't stand the heat, ...............
IMO, at the end of the day, both made choices that conflicted with their primary responsibilities. The pressure and consequences are heavy indeed. However, that's because the legal system needs lawyers that look out for their clients above all and coaches that look out for their institutions above all.
Tressel did not "hear" anything. He read what was in the emails. He responded with what he said in the emails. You are doing an awful lot of interpreting and assuming here about what he thought--including assuming he knew a lot about a lawyer's ethical obligations. I just don't see it.
The Rosenhaus thing is completely not surprising. When you're a shady slimeball individual like TP, you go and hire someone just like you to get you into a league that likely has no place for you.
But it seemed to me that quite a few of teams took Qbs in this past draft. If TP was to have enter the original draft in April, would he have have been drafted...and if so what would his projected position have been. (Position, as in Round and Number, not QB, TE, etc) I really don't see that much value in a "raw" qb with personality flaws even at the TE position.
they have this post, where Jason picks up the gauntlet thrown over here:
http://www.elevenwarriors.com/2011/06/sweating-the-unknown#more
I think all of his arguements paint OSU's situation in an overly-optimistic light. The SbB article mentioned above does a good job of blowing away the "self-report" defense. Anyway, FWIW go read it.
There was some good talk on it yesterday (not that it wouldn't make good talk here as well). Some surprisingly different opinions around here on his piece.
http://mgoblog.com/mgoboard/11-warriors-accepts-brians-challenge
did not see that, its hard to keep track of it all.
Not a big deal at all, it deserves two days of discussion.
Honestly, how do you maintain effective status as a legitimate attorney after an episode like that? How could you possibly foster confidence with any prospective clients in the future? Go ahead and put the toothpaste back in the tube man.
That said, it is not a little bit amusing that the written discretion of an attorney (use the goddamned phone!!!!) could blow the lid off this scandal with Jim Tressel and his star players at tOSU.
THE Ohio State Univesity will attack the credibility of everyone who has helped uncover the depths of their cheating and corruption. The fact that Cicero was trying to help the school he dearly loves should be taken as another black mark against THE Ohio State Univesity, though.
Basically, an attorney broke the attorney-client privilege to try and cover up major NCAA violations. The Dispatch is trying to help their meal ticket here by discrediting Cicero, but is hurting them more than helping them.
1. The stories should say that Rosenhaus is Pryor's LATEST agent.
2. Tressel and LeBron: It's been a tough few days for blowhards from Ohio.
Can you imagine the volume of Lebron hate in the state of ohio if it's found he gave benefits to Pryor? I'm not saying it happend, but Lebron would have to watch his back.
It doesn't add anything new, it's just a charming summary of why LOIC really must be found.
Link: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/733105-ncaa-violations-why-ohio-stat…
Yes, yes I could read these all day long.
Mostly from the OTL episode, but now in print!
http://espn.go.com/blog/ncfnation/post/_/id/42999/more-talbott-allegati…
Another doosy from Brooks (this guy is as anti-OSU as the best of us).
http://www.sportsbybrooks.com/delanys-failure-to-monitor-exposes-osu-co…
Summary:
"And now, thanks to on-the-record, documented evidence involving public statements made by Big Ten Commissioner Jim Delany on two different occasions the past week that directly contradicted a formal and crucial claim in the March 8 self-report by Ohio State to the NCAA - and public statements on March 8 to the same effect by OSU Director of Athletics Gene Smith - along with an email message from an Ohio State administration official to CBSSports.com reporter Bryan Fischer on June 8, it appears we have significant reason to believe that an already ugly situation is about to get worse."
http://www.sportsbybrooks.com/delanys-failure-to-monitor-exposes-osu-co…