Mke Journal-Sentinel: Carlos Hyde scored below literacy level on Wonderlic
I aint go here to play school!
weren't we clamoring for him to transer here last year? Seemed like we wanted him then
And if so, Meyer's PR machine was declaring OSU to be "Warrior Poet U."
Hyde doesn't need to be smart to meet the expectations of his next job. Of course NFL running backs only last 3-8 years, so by the time he's thirty I hope he has some money saved up.
Someone should enroll himself into the 'Derek Zoolander Center for Kids Who Can't Read Good; and Want to Learn to do Other Stuff Good too.'
Sad thing is it's not. That is actually how their school cheer goes. "O-H! Y-O!* Ohio! For kids who can't read, uh, Good!"
*they have had quite a bit of issue spelling Ohio right in the past. Where is that pic of the flags in the wrong order?
I can Wonderlic . . . my own balls!
And Manningham scored a 6. I like piling on OSU for pretty much any reason, so I get a great laugh at this, but let's not pretend that the Wonderlic for a few kids is a reflection of the academic standards at OSU.
Manningham grew up in Ohio.
But these low literacy scores are becoming a habit at Ohio--recall Carlos Hyde, Terrelle Pryor, Chris Gamble--just to mention a few. Couple this with the twitter report from an Ohio qb, cardale jones, that he was there to play FB, not to study. As already noted on this thread, Adophus Washington said "there's no way you can fail" at Ohio. Also, think of the earlier allegations of a teaching assistant as well as multiple players (like Clarret) that they did not have to go to class or take the same tests as other students.
So yes, most schools can have a problem on a single test. But at Ohio there may be much more.
Katzenmoyer was a hell of a college football player, but boy he doesn't seem to be that bright. I honeslty believe when the defensive coaches for Ohio were calling out adjustments for each play they just signaled to him to "Get Football".
Not much of a seducer either. His MO was to wait by the door at frat parties and ask women "Do you wanna get with the Kat?" This being Columbus I bet it was a good strategy.
BigKatsBigDreams seems to ahve been taken down.... Who can forget stories of the Brohammer, or his menu advice for "prenatal female and baby"? (these involved many chicen brest and proteen shake)
The Steelers' GM, Kevin Colbert, said that the reports of Terrelle Pryor scoring a 7 were completely erroneous and that the actual score was "significantly higher." Pryor himself later tweeted that he thought the reports were hilariously because his scored a 22 (grain of salt yadada).
Why ya gotta go and bring my tarheels into this discussion? It was such an enjoyable post until the kick in the nuts at the end.
The comment "I want to learn to read so I can see what espn is writing about me," does not instill confidence.
Terrelle's in good company.
Carlos Hyde didn't go to OSU to play no school!!
that have a hard time taking seriously a test named Wonderlic.
A lot of guys could give 2 shits about that test. They're about to get paid regardless. I doubt teams put a whole lot of stock in them anyway.
Buckeye who give two shits overflow cooler.
There was a study published a few years ago that showed that there was not much of a positive correlation between Wonderlic score and NFL success, aside from the QB position, I believe.
The study actually found a negative correlation between scores and success for certain positions (namely DB), meaning that the lower the score a player scored on the test, the higher the likelihood of NFL success.
I hate to be this guy, partly because there's little I enjoy more than shitting on OSU, but mocking players' Wonderlic scores always seems a little harsh and unfair to me. It's basically just calling them stupid without any context (for how hard they try to learn, whether they grew up with good educational opportunities, what happened on the test, etc.).
On the other hand, ...
Adolphus Washington saying, "The academic support at Ohio State, there is no way you can fail. Even if you're giving minimal effort there is no way you can fail."
... and Cardale Jones saying, "We ain't come to play school, classes are pointless."
... and Terrelle Pryor saying, "Not everybody's the perfect person in the world. I mean everyone kills people, murders people, steals from you, steals from me, whatever."
That shit's just funny.
didn't Tate say something similar to Washington's quote shortly before he failed and had to leave school?
It seems that the players that always offer the quotes regarding academic's maybe shouldn't.
The point is that he failed. That's apparently impossible at OSU.
(I'm assuming that's actually what happened with Tate, but I don't know.)
my comment is beside the point here. Anyway when I was a freshman he was "in" my general sociology class, but he was never there.
That was Tate's problem. He didn't understand that part of his full ride did NOT include a doppelganger who attended class for you... unlike you know who.
I am pretty sure that - sadly - this is not the worst score to come out of the combines in recent years. I believe that Terrelle Pryor scored a 7 as did Tavon Austin. I think Morris Claiborne might be in the record books for the combines of recent note with his 4 actually. Frank Gore scored a 6, I think, in his draft. Still, there has to be some context to all of this, whether it be known issues with schools or individuals or sheer indifference.
I could be wrong, but I had read somewhere that some teams actually target scores based on position. I would have to think that a 9 is below all of them. However, given the talk surround Hyde from scouts, there are still several teams that would take him all the same.
And that might be the case with some of the others scoring low as well. We just don't know.
I don't know about all the draftees, but Claiborne has gone on record saying he didn't even read one question. He basically said "fuck this, I'm putting down C for everything and getting out of here."
I don't believe he is unique in that he didn't care one bit about the test.
Aren't they like, "What are the four seasons?"
Didn't Manningham get a 6?
That is solidly better than Mario Manningham, so let's maybe tone down the gleeful superiority on this one
NFL team takes zero stock on Wonderlic test. There are some players who just don't give a shit and just put down whatever answers they feel like without trying. It's 99.9% for sure that Hyde is in the same boat.
why was he having an academic problem at Ohio?
Surely, a test score can be low because a player does not care, but how much do you think that player cares about even more strenous academic activities--like going to college? Is such a player likely to satisfy eligibility requirements?
Such problems cannot be easily swept under the rug any more.
The Wonderlic only marginally matters for QBs. You'd like your guys to do well bc it correlates to learning a playbook.
Pryor did poorly and did okay as a QB in Oakland.
Pryor did poorly and did okay as a QB in Oakland.
Last I knew he was being replaced by an undrafted QB who was a walk on in college. But then again I don't watch very much Raider football. I get punished enough watching the Lions.
Oakland's train wreck of an O-line finally took its toll on Pryor during the last 1/3rd of the season, McGloin stepped in and did decently well, so they decided not to risk throwing Pryor back out there to be pummelled.
QB's, and OL.
Just one that's beginning to see the light of day. The Wonderlic test provides somewhat of a gauge on just how important academic "tutoring" and "academic support centers" are to keeping student-athletes eligible.
Name - school/year of draft (wonderlic score)
Morris Claiborne - LSU/2009 (4)
Terrell Pryor - Ohio/2011 (7)
Travis Henry - Tenn/2001 (9)
Charles Rodgers - MSU/2003 (10)
Frank Gore - Miami/2005 (6)
Tavon Austin - WVU/2013 (7)
AJ Green - UGA/2011 (10)
Percy Harvin - UF/2009 (12)
CJ Spiller - Clem/2009 (10)
Vince Young -UT/2006 (6) then (16)
Ray Lewis - Miami/1996 (13)
Chris Johnson - ECU/2008 (10)
Either one of three things happened for athletes to score this low: 1) They didn't try, 2) They got academic "assistance" all the way through college to stay eligible and/or "earn" their degree, or 3) They legitimately worked their way academically through college in which case such an insitution should be revoked of its license to operate as an institute of higher learning. College degrees should never be awarded to someone well below to barely above literate. It's kind of a self-defeating oxymoron.
Another possibility you didn't list is that some of these athletes might have a learning disability.
That seemed like a complete joke before the Wonderlic result.
I heard he just spelled out ABBA DABBA over and over again.
One bit. He is still going to be the first running back off the board and to be honest, the wonderlic isn't the greatest measure of how smart someone is anyway, most of the test is effort.
"...most of the test is effort." No more so or less than any of the other "tests" they do at the NFL combine. I'm sure the 320 lb NG can put forth 100% effort, but he'll still never run a 4.5 forty. He might be lucky to run a 5.2, but lack of effort isn't what's making him slower than the DBs and WRs.
I am soooooo printing this out for my Buckeye co-worker.
Does it make some of you feel better to mock a Buckeye's test scores?
I hate shit like this because if you really think he tried and that was the score he recieved (which I doubt) then you should be seriously upset about how the entire schooling process failed him...
sorry, the teacher in me doesn't think this shit is funny...
nor does the adult in me...
the ewok does a little, butt fuck him... (get it?)
It reminds me of an experience I had when chairing an international symposium in Moscow, just before the Soviet Union broke up.
At the time, their currency was almost worthless. And the workers there who got paid in that worthless currency had a slogan:
“As long as they continue to pretend to pay us, we’ll continue to pretend to work.”
Now, athletes at schools like Ohio and North Carolina might feel like those exploited workers in Russia.
“As long as they continue to pretend to teach us, we’ll continue to pretend to learn.”
we don't often criticise the professors who pass these players... or not nearly enough.
The whole system is a sham.
My dad hires people fairly often and considers the Wonderlic test to be a pretty good predictive tool for whether interviewees will be a good fit. He had my little sister take it when she was in seventh grade and if the interviewee can't score better than her he won't hire them.
I wonder how many creative or self-paced people he missed out on.
Standardized tests blandly scan for rote memorized material and as such offer little in the way of an honest assessment in my honest opinion.
An extremely strong opinion about standardized tests, judging by your other posts in this thread. If the ACT and other standardized tests are as "evil" as you say, they wouldn't be used by every single college in the country...
I think you are assuming, incorrectly, that I don't believe that the colleges themselves are part of the problem.
Do you know what a scale score is? Basically it is the number that corresponds to students score on a given test (specifically used in MEAP, MME, and school top to bottom rankings).
The scores are divided into four categories: not proficient (not making the grade), partially proficient (the kid knows, some things, but not all the 'essential' materials), Proficient (the kid knows the essential material), and Advanced (the kid knows beyond the expected material).
The process to determine cut offs of the scores really interests me and it should be discussed more often:
Basically they (OPARE, whomever tells OPARE what to do) decided that a 'proficient' score would predict a B average in college (now, which college, is never set, and I think that matters, but whatever).
IF they had set the bar at an A average in college: very few students would be proficient.
IF they had set the bar at a B average in college: almost everyone would be considered proficient.
What that tells me is that high schools are preparing a majority of their students for success in college, so long as success is based on the ability to pass classes and earn a degree.
What this also tells me is that the people who set these cut offs for the scores choose them in a clandestine and rarely explained manner. I only know this because I was lucky enough to go to the 'Scores on Ice' presentations in the spring of 2012.
everything above this line is true and shouldn't be disputed...
Now for the 'crazy' part: I think colleges want students to need 'remedial' classes so as to both booster their funds through non credit courses as well as state plainly that 'college is where the real learning is'.
On one hand schools are not serving everyone out there, on the other hand, in spite of our innefficiencies we are educating quality, concerned, intelligent, citizens...
That's true for many, but certainly not all.
Also, I'm willing to be his dad's business isn't concerned about missing out on creative or self-paced types. Not every business need people like that, not does every job, and that's when those tests are typically utilized.
Sad, not funny.
Wasn't someone on the board just talking about how meaningless the Wonderlic is and how nobody ever pays it any heed... unless someone scores badly, and then it's suddenly huge news?
Case in point.
In all honesty a 9 is higher than I was expecting for him.
This is a Posbang?
Great for Carlos! That is a record high for an O$U player in the draft... right?
I'm not saying the Wonderlic is a great overall judge of intelligence, especially considering most of the guys taking it are months away from significant pay days regardless of score on the test. However, there is a trend of Ohio players that think its ok to throw their own program under the bus academically, and that in and of itself seems to lend itself to be a systematic problem. If you're consistently recruiting guys that do not have the common sense to represent the school well that's paying for their schooling, something is wrong. Yes, I understand Tate did the same thing, but he seemed to be more of a spoiled kid that finally didn't get what he wanted than someone that wasn't intelligent. You can look at years of Ohio players that truly believed they were just there to play football as a means to a greater end and for most of them that wasn't coming in terms of being a big success in the NFL. We do not see these kids academic credentials but you really have to wonder what the standard is for Ohio to recruit someone when they can't give an interview without throwing their own school under the bus. It certainly lends itself to the belief that Ohio wants to win at all costs, regardless of academic standard. Michigan has a great academic reputation / standard regardless of sport.
A rich person makes fun of a poor person, in that moment who looks worse?
But perhaps I'm being too generous to those making fun of Carlos
begining Tuesday all accross the state our juniors will be taking the ACT, workkeys, and Michigan Merit Exam.
And you know what we will learn? Who's parents make more money.
ps. or the amount of LEAD exposure in our homes...
I had the privelige a few year back of watching an hour presentation on the x, y graph with x being the average income of the students at a school and y being the average ACT score. it was a pretty straight upward slant...
now, individually that doesn't mean anything as kids can, and do, both overachieve and underachieve...
but, when you look at schools and their tests scores you are really just lloking at a graph of the median family income.
How people can criticize young kids about their education or even their commitment to an education, in this broken system we force kids through is proof positive the educational system is not working. Because if it was, this would be common knowledge. 10 years ago when I was sub-teaching, the districts I worked in had multiple, multiple computer labs for students to use. If you go to a inner city school, they're lucky if they have a computer in their library. This was 10 years ago so maybe things have changed, but I'm willing to bet it hasn't.
The income graph is really easy to point a finger at, but remember the correlation does not equal causation. It's not really median family income; it's tax base within the school / funding district. Anyone who is being honest about this discussion knows that there is way more involved in this issue than family income alone (eg community resources, family income, proportion of population with children in local public school or who will go through the local public schools, parental involvement, teacher pay, etc.). If it really were about median income alone, Florida should have much better schools (in general) than it does.
Have X be family income and y be the amount of property tax a family pays. You would also see a straight line up. All those things you list, teacher's pay, community resources, even parental involvement are all related to family income. The more a family makes, the better area they will live in. The better area they live in, the more they pay in property tax. The more they pay in property tax, the better the community resources, the better teacher pay, the better schools in general. You are correct in your argument, but I think your argument supports jdon, not opposes it.
Maybe in some places, or even most, but certainly not all. I happen to live in one of those areas. We have an exceptionally high median income, but our public schools suck. Primarily because the majority of the generators of that income will never have kids that go to the public schools (primarily wealthy retirees, and those with kids send them to private school). As a result, there is little to no pressure to allocate those community resources on public school education and there is little to no interest in knowing or caring what goes on in those schools. We sure do have nice beaches, though!
but lets not leave out the role of graft in all of this...
I mean more money is spent per pupil in Detroit than most school districts. And yet so little actually ends up in the students favor...
$ can't replace replace a family value on education. And that reliance on education as a way to make it tends to wane as the family income lowers.
Plain and simple: our public school system is a sham and the answers aren't more dollars, or more test; the answer is honest psychiatric analysis of student performance coupled with caring teachers using multiple intelligences, repetition, and scaffolding tuned into individual students...
actually, if we could just get class size down around 10-15 students per class I think we would see all the change in effectiveness that is neccessary.
Sounds like a Lion
We ought to get that 2 point conversion to count, right guys?!
illiteracy is REALLY quite hilarious
The test is 50 multiple choice questions so don't you pretty much get a 10 if you put your name on it and answer randomly?
the Ohio school system delivered him to campus uneducated. Every teacher he had, it appears, did him a disservice by not teaching him basic skills.
Yea, I can't believe the the Ohio school system didn't do a better job of educating Carlos Hyde for all of those years leading up to college. If only there was a way for the Ohio school system to better teach those kids in high school in Florida...
He spent his last 3 years of high school in Florida.
2nd of all, your statement is beyond ridiculous to take down an entire STATE's school system based off of one great football player who was told how great he was and rubberstamped in. I'm a product of the Ohio school system which led to an acceptance letter from every college I applied to, and a degree from the university that I chose.
Third, he did not get admitted to Ohio State out of high school, he had to go to prep school to become eligible.
So what that he spent his last 3 years of K-12 in Florida? He spent the previous 9 in Ohio. I'm not saying it's Ohio's fault, but it sure isn't Florida's...
"the Ohio school system delivered him to campus uneducated"
He did not graduate from an Ohio school, and the school he did graduate from did not deliver him to campus, it delivered him to a prep school.
I despise these releases. The Wonderlic isn't a literacy test, and it isn't proof of overall intelligence. It's a test designed to, I don't know, embarrass college kids and make a bunch of guys who write about sports feel smarter than them.
It is no more an indictment of the education provided by a school as is the body mass index of students from a particular college reflective of the food quality. Just a bunch of BS that is stupid and offensive.
However, as a person who holds a degree from Ohio State, I can say that the football team does not represent the university as a whole. You know, like EVERY OTHER SCHOOL IN THE COUNTRY.
Furthermore, Hyde did not qualify for OSU out of high school, which coming from that football program is an accomplishment by itself. He started out at a CC, then was rubberstamped in if I remember correctly.