This article sickens me. So a real Michigan Man makes his players yell out team records? I understand fans being bangwagoney but former players?! That is unacceptable.
This article sickens me. So a real Michigan Man makes his players yell out team records? I understand fans being bangwagoney but former players?! That is unacceptable.
This is literally the same thread over and over again. Shit's getting redundant
Well I thought people would want to see an article about Michigan on the frontpage of ESPN, this being a sports blog and all
God I hate Mondays.
42 titles is ALWAYS acceptable to shout about.
Do the players he is "welcoming back" like what is happening? Are they excited to yell out the number of championships? Do they feel a part of the current family and a part of the historical family of Michigan Football? Are they more vocal and supportive of the team?
I don't know why this is the case exactly. I liked RR. But I think it is pretty foolish for us to argue with the overwhelming support we hear from the players. We didn't walk into the meetings or the building and interact with the coaches or players. We weren't communicated with by either of these coaching staffs. Instead of assuming the majority of football alum are just wrong and foolish, I think I'll trust what I hear: they feel like family and are excited about Michigan football. I won't read too much into it and won't place blame anywhere - I'll accept these positive feelings for what they are - and be *very glad* the players feel this way.
Hoke is just copying how he starts meetings with the players - some have criticized this as well, and my point in support of that arguement is exactly the same as my point here. If the players like it and it makes them feel more a part of the current and historical family of Michigan Football, then for God's sake, continue.
I find the OP comments slightly annoying and foolish, but hey, they are his opinions. I certainly don't trust his opinions more than the opinions of people who are in that room and putting on that winged helmet. The OP's negativity is no more sensical than early detractors of RR. Both are ignorant and unproductive. Furthermore, it flies in the face of what we hear from former and current players.
in regard to there being a problem with "bandwagoney" fans. We should all stick by our school through thick and thin... but I'm not sure about your problem with yelling out team records. It's just his way of putting an emphasis on our teams history and what that means to this University. So, I'm not sure why you have a problem with that.
My problem with this is that Hoke gets way too much credit for emphaziing Michigan tradition. RR brought in Bo's first team to teach them about transition, put OSU logos on the tackling dumbies, etc... What I would love to know is exactly why a significant amount of the Michigan Football Program wanted their head coach to fail.
That's a terrible answer to a valid question. I don't think there's anyone who can legitimately deny that Hoke has received FAR more positive press than RR ever did. Saying you "just knew he would" doesn't make any sense unless you're some sort of oracle. Granted, people were justifiably concerned that he would be changing the scheme of the program, but no one (at least at first) had any reason to expect anything less than success after watching what he did at WVU. So if you're saying you somehow "just knew" RR would fail from the outset, you didn't exactly WANT him to win, either.
Rye, don't waste your time. Everything Sean Ornery says is stupid as F***.
This coming from the asshat that only showed up and joined the site after RR was fired to gloat about it and be a general fuckhead about Michigan football. Go to bed, would you please.
You might remember him from such usernames as The Barking Sphincter or The King of Belch. It may take awhile, but once you realize it's all an act he's easy to identify.
Fair point friend, but didn't KoB have a tendancy to also be funny, however idiotic and asinine his comments were?
Why are you such a dick? Why dont you do us all a favor and take your comments to the RCMB. You will find a lot of like-minded friends over there.
into the blog archives in early 2008 and find me a bunch of instance of people who "knew" of what was going to happen. I will eagerly await your findings....
1. he was a hick from West Virginny
2. zero family values
3. dissed all the former players
4. lost games at a lethal rate
5. would rather beat Delaware State than OSU
6. Rita's chilly sucked
7. recruited thugs
8. treated Tate like shit
9. too many hybrids not enough thoroughbreds
10. didn't like MANBALL
your avatar looks like some kind of dog/human hybrid in a crouched position. I'm sure I just need to see a blown up version, but its rather disturbing from afar.
I was not expecting that...
For months, I've thought your avatar was some really wrinkly fat dude taking boudoir photos with his face blacked out (like maybe it was you).
Thank you so much for posting that.
Ha. glad I could clear it up, what a horrible image to contemplate for months on end
Thanks for clearing that up, simply delightful.
Dogs kick so much ass.
I'm pretty sure his comment/list was tongue-in-cheek.
Come on, you have to know that the lack of alumni support, fans that didn't like where RR was from and Lloyd Carr are to blame for the record. The worst defense in history of the school had nothing to do with it. And if you like Hoke, or appreciate anything he does, you're a hypocrite b/c RR did the exact same things and never, ever got credit from it (except on here of course).
I don't care who the coach is.
I don't care what offense he runs.
I don't care what defense he runs.
I do care about NCAA violations and losing games.
He has publicly denigrated the Illinois win. That's not "Michigan football" to him. Can't wait to go back to the Oregon games -- MANBALL versus 21st century will be a blast (again)!
So, outside of Jackson, exactly who on the current staff was coaching during the Oregon game?
Giving up 45 points in regulation to that Illinois team is unacceptable. So I understand any criticism about that win.
I miss the days when if Michigan scored 28 points you knew it was a victory. Having a balanced team is important. I feel last season there was too much pressure on the offense to perform. If denard knows that he has a defense (and special teams for that matter) to back him up he can play much more relaxed and not be put in a position where he is trying to force things.
Above all else what this program needs is stability. Four defensive coordinators in six years is why kids are leaving, not some "Michigan secondary hating God". The coaches that they commit to are leaving. This problem dates back to the last few years of the Carr era so that isn't all RR's fault but he certainly didn't help fix it. Hopefully Mattison will stay here for a decade and we can have some top 10 defenses.
I listen to what Hoke says, and compare it to what Rodriguez said - not much different outwardly. Plain speak, not well articulated, occasionally drawn into a guffaw, no Lloyd Carr poetry recitations for the elitist, etc.
Hoke was asked at his first press conference about the importance of the OSU and MSU games. He gave Rodriguez-like answers ("I understand" and "three rivalries"). The difference: he was asked three times. The press kept serving up big juicy slow pitches and by the third time, he got it, and started pounding the pulpit. The press only reported on his third answer, and therefore everybody only remembers the third time.
It is clear to me that Rich got a raw deal from the press, many football alumni, and other "insiders". This same group (or their Freep / M-Live / Mid-Western-valued lackeys) are now all bandwagon-y, and are trumpeting warm maize and blue fuzzy pap all over the internets (including the low points posters here).
This has / will go on ad nauseam. Rich Rod got a bad deal / Brady Hoke is so dreamy ...
So - I too am sickened by the family coming back (when they should have been here before even if they weren't wanted), and the dreamy pap on the web.
But rather than sounding like a broken record (I am dating myself into the 5% category), I'm posting less. It's like I have to hold my breath until there is real football to talk about, because the point is moot.
Rich was let go. Hoke is here. Just ignore the pap. It will die down unless Hoke is wildly successful, in which case we'll all be wildly happy.
its a long time until fall practice starts and if we spend all that time parsing every single sentence about UM football, we will go insane.
these worthless posts should just be called something like "internet meme parade" or "funny picture and quote-a-thons" or ".gif fests"
Oh come on, I can't be the only one that's happy to have Lloyd Carr coaching again.
Brady continues to impress with quotes:
"We want to touch players," Hoke said
Jesus. We've fired RR so many time on this board, you'd think that at some point that sonofabitch would just stay fired.
mostly, im just really disappointed to see the extent of the xenophobia and lack of support that the previous regime had to endure. it makes me feel a lot of shame to think i am united in a cause with people who can behave that way.
but honestly, all we can do is wait. i think my signature really puts it best...
you summed it up perfectly
I would hardly describe the way the treatment of the previous regime as xenophobic. Yes, there were some who didn't like RR from the start for a litany of reasons, some deserved some undeserved; but let's not he didnt do himself too many favors either. If he had won more games, the alumni and fan base would have accepted him as if he was a native son. Bottom line. End of story.
Just be happy that everyone is on the same page now regardless of why they may not have been in the past.
when i say xenophobia, it's not just the fact that he was from wv. that was certainly a factor with some alums, but that's not facet im aiming to point out.
the xenophobia against richrod was due to unfamiliarity with his system and with him not being tied to the previous michigan coaching tree. he was foreign, and his methods, especially compared to the status quo ante, were stange. this is indeed xenophobia (look it up).
the absolute aversion to change, despite a proven record of success, to the point where players in the locker room were "rebelling" and there was open conflict within the alumni base, was not only sad, but extremely harmful and hurtful to the program.
it brought a lot of old heroes down to earth. players and alums who were once idols are now flawed and petty men. personally, while i'll never be able stop supporting the program 100%, it was disheartening to see that the players who made the program could behave in such a way. its kinda like, as a kid, realizing that santa no longer exists. you have to accept it, but that doesn't make it any easier to stomach.
I couldn't agree more.
I'm not sure I feel the same way about it bringing the heroes down to earth.... but that's mostly because I'm jaded and expect them to be flawable humans in the first place.
It's not the fairness or moral issues regarding the treatment of change and outsiders that bothers me. It's more the fear that we are now tied to the Michigan Man coaching tree for the very distant future or until there is epic failure, whichever comes first. I certainly hope for the best for Hoke and I never want the program to fail, but being tied to the Michigan Man coaching tree makes us succeptable to many of the same risks that a fortune 500 company would face by only promoting from within.
Regardless of your assessment of RR's success or failure, the rest of the world is improving. We need to improve at the same or a faster rate to remain the leaders and best. Not just cling to our traditions and past victories.
RR wasnt exactly set up for success with the players he inherited but if he had done his job better as in WIN MORE GAMES, the alumni, fans, and players would have found a way to like him. People didnt fear him because he and his system were different, they didnt like the fact that he didnt have a grasp of the traditions and didnt win enough. I think if Ron English or Mike DeBord had gotten the job we would have had an even worse last 3 years and plenty of people would have been calling for their heads if either one of them had gone 15-22. People who turned on RR at the end or werent fans of him aren't xenophobic, they are losingphobic.
But, I'm not sure if they fit into the context of the post above:
"to the point where players in the locker room were "rebelling" and there was open conflict within the alumni base"
To put it in context, did that rebellion and open conflict start before or after the losses piled up? I seem to remember some of it starting from the moment a certain coach didn't get the job.
It was clear that some players on that 08 team quit and that is an indictment of their character, the new coaching staff for not getting them to buy in, and the previous staff for not making sure that the players did what was best for Michigan regardless of the coach. This is an area where I have the utmost respect for RR because the holdover players have been all in for Michigan as an institution and as a TEAM. The guys from 08 could learn a thing or 2 from the current team.
As for the alumni, I recall a very popular website that had been around since 05 called sackcarr.com and open discussion of why M needed a change. We got the change and some hated it. There will always be a portion of the fan base that isnt happy unless we are winning the B1G and beating tuos year in and out. The opposition RR faced was unfortunate and unwarranted in many instances, but winning cures all. He didnt win and now he's gone. It happened, it's over, time to support Hoke and THE TEAM.
I think RR was set to win 9 games this year which means he probably would have won 8 (before getting fired). 10 wins would certainly be overachieving in my opinion and I don't see it happening this year.
Okay, if you insist. I will book it. And for a guy who mischaracterized the yearly expectations for Rich Rodriguez by the proprietors of MGoBlog, your asking us to "book it" just might be a very rich source of humor.
I think Hoke and his staff have done a good job of selling the transition.
The sell is easier: transitioning to pro-style will help everyone get to the next level. The recievers, the tight ends, the running backs, and the entire defense all have something to gain. Denard and Devin may have been more likely Heisman contenders under Rodriguez, but even Florida brought Scot Loeffler in to help prepare Tebow for the NFL. (After Saturday, anybody think we may need a QB coach?) Getting to the next level has to be on Denard's mind.
That said, Spring Practice has just ended. We are not to September 3rd yet.
Ann Arbor in general took a huge hit, not just M fans....in my opinion. Not just the treatment of RR as a coach, which was reprehensible and inexcusable, from day one, but the treatment of his family, Rita being shunned because of her clothes/hair and his kids being tormented at school. I thought AA and M fans were above that sort of thing, but apparently not. Funny thing is, if it they were African-American instead of West Virginian, AA liberals would have been falling all over themselves to accept them. My opinion.
Former players 'coming back' should never have left. All the rhetoric about Hoke appreciating tradition more than RR is just BS and part of the 'Hoke is Great!' PR machine.
I don't care what anyone here says now, there was a HUGE segment of the fan base that wanted RR to fail from day one and openly acted in a manner detrimental to his success. The same fans now acting like anybody not supporting Hoke 100% and without reservation is somehow less than a fan. Shoe, meet other foot.
I like Hoke as a person, but he clearly is not the caliber of coach M needs and was about our 5th option. It is not impossible he will be successful, just not very probable.
I haven't been less excited about an M season as far back as I remember. I have seen enough of manball, 4 yard runs, old-style football to last 3 lifetimes and I am not at all excited to return there seeing where that got us previously. To be blunt, it just isn't going to work. the days of 'blowing people off the ball' ended a long time ago and it is too bad many M fans can't see that. Even if it works, it is boring, sooooooo boring to watch.
I used to be on here every day and craving every last bit of M football data, insight, recruiting news and analysis I could get my hands on, now I am lucky to check Brian's blog entries once a week and actually read some of them. Was skimming Google Reader for anything interesting in these forum posts, but same old, same old.
are you serious?