Michigan vs. Wisconsin B-Ball Snowflakes and Post Game Open Thread
Wisconsin I and Indiana II were disappointing ENDINGS. This was flat out a disappointing EFFORT.
(Slight Mod Edit - condensing snowflakes to one thread. This thread had more replies and discussion, but M-Wolverine won the "thread title" contest. LSA)
Oh, other issue. Big Ten scouts realized that basically what you want to do is to never let us run. Because when we run we build off the momentum (because we're young) and suddenly you're down 20 and the game is over. So if you just don't let us run and keep us in the half court, we'll do some stupid stuff. Especially once Burke became the favorite for the Naismith.
This forum amazes me after a loss. People seriously think this team is worse than the last 2? Haha. I for one think next years team will be better.
We were nowhere just a few years ago and we just spent a considerable part of the season ranked in the top 5/10 and are going to the tournament as a 3-4 seed. Two years ago people would have been ecstatic at the thought of that result. Now.....?
We are playing a very young team in the toughest conference in the country, by far. I actually think we did pretty well, all things considered........it could be far worse. This is not a team that is fully 'back' yet to be able to compete nationally and dominate teams like Indiana, MSU, OSU....and yes, Wisconsin. Wisconsin is a terrible team mathcup to our group and is able to consistently exploit a younger, less experienced/seasoned group with their style of play. Yes there are freshman across the country playing at a high level, but i would venture that they are playing within a well established system, amongst a group of players that has a good portion of sophomores, juniors and seniors, but not 4-5 freshman heavily being depended upon as key personnel being led by a sophomore.
We are also developing new schemes that are based on a better level of talent on the roster (thanks coach B) and are no longer a desperate/quirky 3-point shot based offense with a 1-3-1 defenseive scheme. Everything is building toward what you want, but things don't happen overnight. There are steps, there is progress, there are setbacks and regression.
Stay behind the team no matter what. If you leave because you are not getting quite the number of wins you expect....then you are likely only recently back as a fan anyway and I join those in telling you "good riddance, don't come back...again.'
I for one am extremely happy with the progress, have throroughly enjoyed the season thus far, even though at times it can be hard to watch. I'm happy we have a coach that has class, that recruits character players and develops them well and I see a great future in him thus far.
I have watched Michigan basketball ever since the days of Ricky Greene and Steve Grode and to the people thinking that there is any similarity between Belein and Frieder, I would beg to differ wholeheartedly. I doubt they could be more different.
We came into the season ranked 4th in the nation. We were justified in believing that this was a squad that could contend for, if not win, a national championship. Instead, we saw us lose a few more times than we would have likes. Some were hard fought games where we got some bad bounces. Others were like today, where the intensity, intelligence, and effort just wasn't showing.
To watch our team get out hustled and out played by a team that is flat out less talented than ours is a definite cause of concern. Anyone genuinely worried that this team can't win it all is not a "fake fan" or whatever it is you believe. I am truly distraught that even with the best player we've had in 20 years, along with a bounty of hyper athletic players we are capable of shitting the bed like today.
Your attitude baffles me, the wait till tomorrow approach doesn't really work in college basketball when players can go pro on a whim. If the time to hope for the grand prize is not now, when? When Trey and GR3 leave? When Timmy graduates? But hey, we have our schemes progressing at a satisfactory trajectory!
That being said, I haven't lost all hope. I still think this team can make some noise next week, there is just too much ability to think otherwise. Unfortunately, what I saw today really made me rethink if my expectations for this season were realistic to begin with.
This was and is a very young team, and it plays like one. Spotty defensively, inconsistent from game to game, a lot of players with a tendency to disappear. It's basically Trey Burke and a collection of promising but raw players. I think their performance this year has been in line with what reasonable expectations should have been before the season.
First of all, I was anything but maudlin, rather I was optimistic about the future of the program and the progress thus far. That is the exact opposite of maudlin, which I think better describes your self-pitying, 'poor me, I didn't get what I wanted this year based on the pre-season ranking and now it will NEVER happen' diatribe. Look it up.
I think this says it all:
'what I saw today really made me rethink if my expectations for this season were realistic to begin with'
The #4 pre-season is just that and we all know just what those are worth. No one had any idea how tough the B1G would be top-to-bottom or no one would have made that prediction. If you hang your aspirations for any team on those rankings rather than a basic understanding of reality, I can tell you that you are in for a lot of disappointment.
Not to mention if you haven't been questioning your expectations prior to the Wisconsin game, then you haven't been watching.
The team had early success in part b/c they were essentially a very new look and I think early in the season fairly difficult to scout, but as the season wore on it became a lot easier to prepare for them as their weaknesses were revealed and became easily exploitable. As a program develops, they become more multi-dimensional with a better set of schemes and players with which to approach the various schemes/rosters they go up against. This team is young and pretty much bi-dimensional on offense (pick and roll standard and the Trey Burke makes it happen when that doesn't work), plus they just don't have any form of solid defense with that many young players on the floor. That is just the reality of it.
What the f*ck was up with our shot selection today?
Frustrating, but a blessing in disguise. The big dance is what matters and a third loss to IU on dead legs was not going to help us going in.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIyixC9NsLI
Mushroom, mushroom.
Oh It's biiiiiig...
The coach I will like the most of the remaining is Thad Matta. Go Iowa
March 16th, 2013 at 12:57 AM ^
One out of two isn't bad for being drunk as fuck
In the meantime, lets remember this: spring football starts tomorrow. The continued building and perfecting of the Greg Mattison Defensive Death Machine starts tomorrow. Manball starts tomorrow. Devin Gardner taking the next step starts tomorrow. The #1 recruit in America is visiting this whole weekend.
I know this is a basketball thread, but there's a lot for us to look forward to.
Killed to watch a team that appears overwhelmed against any team with interior presence, panics and rushes shots, plays matador D, and is hyper reliant on one player. Gotta disagree with you here chief. The record is nice, but let's face it the ranking is, at best, a crazy mirage.
Some of us, abeith a minority, like Michigan's basketball team more than the football team. So when someone straight up dismisses a particular aspect of the bball team;s failures by saying that football is just around the corner, it can be seen as derisive to those of who have been following basketball with unbroken attention.
I know a lot of people on this board are incredibly pissed off or depressed with the team's performance right now. I was just trying to offer any kind of cheering up that I could. So, while I see your point, my point was that even on crappy days like this, there's a lot for us as UM fans in general to look forward to. There's football news, there's the NCAA tournament just on the horizon, etc.
I'm gonna pull out a quote from former women's coach Kevin Borseth:
''Damn sick and tired of getting out rebounded. Maybe we should put on some pads like that guy at Oklahoma State.''
Maybe that's what this team needs. Strap on pads and hit each other.
Will be sad to see best M point guard ever bow out of the tourney so early.
Rumeal.
He has a ring.
Ultimately, I think that's the board's attitude towards this team. We loved last years team because they didn't seem like they should've won a Big 10 title or been a 4 seed but through grit and determination, they made it happen.
This version is the exact opposite. They have all the talent in the world, but lack the heart/experience/balls/understanding to fully maximize that potential. Which ends up frustrating us as fans because we see what they can do and watch in horror as they again and again fall short.
I just read some stuff Stauskas said after the game. Basically, he said that when he doesn't make shots, he stops playing defense, because he's stuck on not making the shots, and can't move past it. I think that's what we're seeing from the freshmen, especially him and GRIII. This is my 12 year old son exactly. When he's playing badly (baseball and basketball), he just stops playing. He forgets that there's a team he's playing on, and a game that still hasn't been won yet. That's the immaturity part, the freshmen part. I've been frustrated with the whole "we have a bunch of freshmen, what do you expect?" argument, but now I get it. That's a huge piece of the growth/development puzzle - being able to stop focusing on yourself so much, and just play your role when things aren't falling your way.
March 15th, 2013 at 11:26 PM ^
I definitely think there are other factors here. But having seen this in my own kid, I recognize it as having a pretty big effect on how you bounce back during a game, which seems to be a big issue with this team. If you're Stauskas or GRIII, you're the star in high school. So you come into Michigan thinking you're going to be amazing in every game, and then you're not. This is a big mental jump, and some people get that quickly and adjust, and others don't. Some never do.
I just thought it was interesting that Stauskas verbalized this issue - it makes a lot of sense given some of the struggles the team has had, and why we keep saying, they're not playing defense.
I blame it on the shorts.
and when I say Beaker I mean that Bruesewitz. I don't know how to imbed pictures on here. where's our pride? Losing to gumpy looking kids from Minnesota and Wisconsin. This is so embarrassing. . .
March 15th, 2013 at 10:28 PM ^
enough excuses. effort and coaching, that's what these young lads need. with the talent on this team, at the beginning of the season, i thought anything less than final four would be disappointment. well, regular season is over and no banners are to be had. one seriously has to question the leadership of this team if they don't represent in the tournament. with another first round exit, we should give our gratitude to JB and find another coach who can recruit, coach 'em up, and values toughness. yeah, i said it.
March 16th, 2013 at 12:07 AM ^
big ten wins the past two years:
26 - msu and osu
25 - UM, IU
24 - wisky
18- purdue
so we finally get to the top of the BIG and are a tip in from consecutive BIG titles and people question the coach's ability and/or direction of the program. and if IU loses its 4 key players, UM will likely be the favorites to win the BIG next year along with msu.
Oh well it was a disappointing year overall for Michigan basketball but, I'm happy they gave me the opertunity to be disappointed. Hopefully the guys who stay learn from the 2nd half of this season and Trey has a great NBA career.
March 15th, 2013 at 10:04 PM ^
lol, this thread.
You guys are worse than IU fans when the Hoosiers lose. And thats saying a lot. I'm sorry. I'm not sorry
March 15th, 2013 at 10:12 PM ^
March 15th, 2013 at 11:53 PM ^
compairing beilein to izzo. folks, look at msu's roster. they have at least one top 50 player in each class right now, except nix was in the 60s, per rivals.
UM has two top 50 players on its roster - GRIII and mcgary; both freshmen.
UM's highest senior is vogrich 130s. DMo was 70s but gone.
Juniors - Smotrycz 50s gone. Hardaway/Horford were 3*
Sophs - Burke 140s. Bundridge low 100s is gone.
If Smot stays, we probably win a couple of those close losses this year. A #4 that can hit the 3 and plays better D than GRIII. We just don't have talented experienced players. Our talent is all young.
Now think back to MSU. Remember how good nix, appling and payne were as freshmen? not very. is izzo a bad coach? he had some experienced talent ahead of these guys, like lucas, row and green, etc. he didn't have to throw them into the fire. he had a pipeline of talent.
how good was deshaun thomas as a frosh? or any # of osu players not named sullinger?
now, if you want to blame beilein for smot and DMo not being here, go ahead. but he is finally building a pipeline of talent. a great frosh class and 2013 will also be very good. 2014 is also likely to be good. you want question beilein's ability because his frosh aren't tearing it up, because hey there is kentucky.
is it frustrating the team doesn't play better D. yes, but that is expected out of freshmen. i remember douglas and novak saying that it takes a year for beilein's D schemes to sink in.
this team is now ready to compete for BIG and NCAA titles for the next several years and many of you are thinking of replacing JB. what a joke.
March 16th, 2013 at 12:53 AM ^
I haven't seen many people suggest replacing JB. If there's one or two consider that there were probably Alabama fans in 2010 suggesting Saban be replaced...
John Beilein deserves criticism today. Wisconsin shot 15% in the first half and we fucking lost the game. That being said, he is not on the hot seat and his coaching career will not be judged on this one game.
One area that is the most definite item to lay at the coaches feet is the lack of passion and effort. Stauskus and Robinson disappear and appear completely disinterested if they are not hitting shots early. If you are going to play them extended minutes, get them into positions with designed plays/cuts/looks to get them going....focus on cuts to the rim, etc, something to get them fired up and in the game.
At many points, they are playing tired, so if they cannot go with at least 90% plus effort on D and rebounding, get someone else minutes who is playing with that intensity level. Lavert and McGary both seem to go 100% with effort (just need to slow down with the ball in their hands and make good fundamental plays instead of staying at 1000mph on both ends).
One thing that I do find interesting is the lack of cohesion and celebration together, as well as the lack of team chemistry. I see big plays or shots being made and instead of celebrating with a team member, all to often I see players looking for crowd approval.
Also, there are far too many times where there is no cohesion at all on offense and it turns into catch it and chuck it one on one games with long fade-away shots or shots with defenders tight for no apparent reason. Also, given the propensity for having the three players not involved in the high screen sitting out at the 3 point line, it also leads to having no one anywhere near an offensive rebound either.
These are all good kids, but I think that they need more energy, focus and leadership from the bench and when one of them starts to get into a funk, sit them down and talk them through it and I think that should also apply to Burke and Hardaway.