What he should really hate is a bowl system that extracts money from schools by forcing them to buy tickets that otherwise remain unsold.
Michigan sells 86% of Sugar Bowl allotment and why I hate Stub Hub
I said you can get a ticket for $15 to this game on Stub Hub .. which screws the schools over. Then I said it always seems like when I want to get a ticket on there they are always 5 times face value. Happens to be I cannot go to this game and tickets are only $15, but If I want to go to a game like the Wisconsin matchup or THE GAME .... tickets are outrageous
So is it really Stub Hub that you hate, or... um... the immutable laws of supply and demand?
...that Adam Smith and his invisible hand! Curses!
I think what he hates are monopolies.
If I want to get a ticket to a concert... maybe a Black Keys concert... I only have 1 option. I must buy from Stubhub. Stubhub knows this and can charge me as much as they see fit. This allows Stubhub to get an excessive profit.
When competition is introduced, like buying a ticket through Michigan rather than stubhub, stubhub can lower their prices illogically in order to squeeze out the competition. Stubhub is willing to take a very minimal profit, or even a loss, because it means less competition in the long run. They probably also benefit from the increased website traffic by selling ad space.
Stubhub is applying the brilliant (/s) principles established by Rockefeller, Carnegie, and J.P. Morgan.
Stubhub is not establishing any of the prices. They are merely a ticket broker. Other consumers are buying the tickets to the concert, and then selling it to you at a marked up price. Blame them.
stub hub makes 15% on the selling end and 10% on the buying end of ticket transactions. i'm sure they hate it when tickets go for cheap as well.
Dude, Stub Hub doesn't set the ticket prices -- the ticket holders do. There's tons of competition on price. Stub Hub is a glorified bulletin board in your dorm hall -- one that charges a fee for use. If you think the fee-for-use price is too high - fine. But you're totally wrong when you say that Stub Hub has a monopoly on tickets.
And Stub Hub isn't engaging in predatory pricing on the Michigan game to "squeeze out the competition." If it is, it's doing a pretty bad job, because Michigan is going to continue to sell tickets itself year after year.
Yes it screws over the schools, basically all bowls screw over the schools, unless your payout is 4 million from a BCS game.
What do you expect though? When you have a stadium of 70k and it's in a remote location for both schools there are going to be loads of tickets available. And when the supply is a plenty and the demand is short, the price will fall.
I love stubhub for this point, it creates an actual supply and demand of the ticket. Now the same thing go for scalping tickets, I rarely pay face value for tickets because I buy from scalpers. When the demand for the tickets is low, why would I go to a ticket office to buy a $35 dollar ticket when I could get a $15 dollar ticket from someone else? Its called smart shopping. On the flip side, I've attend 150 pro/college sporting events and have tried to buy from scalpers and when the demand is high the price of the scalpers will be high, no matter the event.
What's a shame is watching these bowl games on tv and there are only a couple thousand attending instead of giving away tickets to the schools. If the school is in the bowl game, they should automatically receive a share of tickets FREE of charge just by making it to the bowl game. Then the school should be able to sell them to fans at their leasure. I've never understood why a bowl would require the bowl team to buy tickets to the event. Going to a bowl shouldn't put a school back, it should help the program.
I've got two listed right now in section 614, row 10 (smack dab on the 50 yard line) for $180 each and so far no takers. I bought four but my travel partner bailed on me so if i dont move them via Stub Hub then i'll try and sell them down there.
How do you feel about Stub Hub anyways? I've heard good things about the site and you seem like a big fan......
That section I saw on stub hub for $40 a ticket. I ended up getting lower bowl corner for under $50
UM is going to have to eat the cost of the tickets that it cannot sell which will hurt $$$. This happens every year and in every bowl.
Don't know why the schools cant work something out so that they don't get screwed by the secondary market evey year in the bowls. If a BCS bowl is going for $15 what do you think the Piece-of-crap Bowl is going for?
I'm in San Antonio to visit family and tickets to the Alamo Bowl were $70 on StubHub.
It's real easy, the schools should force the bowls to not release tickets to the public till the schools can sell them for a week.....and the schools should get them at a discount rate from the public price.....ie help the schools sell their allotment first, then release the rest.......that is the best way to help the schools under the current system.
so your bitching about low prices? the school can take of itself. My god the school fucking rapes you when you go to a conference game. Take your breaks when you can get them.
I agree. Some of the tickets are overpriced and/or illogically priced. I think the schools are getting screwed over, but I think people's anger should go towards other involved parties besides stubhub.
Don't worry about the UM athletic department. They basically print money. It's probably 1,000 to 2,000 tickets at most, a drop in the bucket for UM.
$125 is too high considering fans also have to shell out for airfare, hotel, food, etc. I know the school doesn't set the price, but if they did it wouldn't be any lower. That price is a steal compared to having to shell out $70 for Delaware State and UMass
Ahead of time from Stub Hub. (back in November). Before The Game. If we didn't make I could always sell the tickets to an SEC fan. (I live in GA). I got my tickets for $170 ea. and thought I was getting tickets before the price went up. Lesson learned.
this will probably be the LAST time I buy tkts thru the University..I could get much better seats at half the price RIGHT NOW on various ticket selling sites..and ON the Mich side of the field..why would I pay twice the price in the future?
I'm in the same boat. I've now bought a better pair for $65 (for both) after dropping $300 with Michigan to get crappy seats. I may even try to score some better seats at the last minute. Given the overall cost of the trip I'd like to end up with decent seats. I may have some nice leftovers to frame.
Next time you say to yourself ... "I'm not paying $125.00 a ticket, because I know I can get them for $20 a week before the game" It'll be a week before the game and tickets will be sold out through the University and will cost you $385 a seat on Stub Hub ... That's how it works.
Its all about demand, national championship game tickets are going for 1k, I don't think there is a ton of local interest for the game limiting demand to just the two fanbases. Even if both school bring 20k fans that still leaves over 20k tickets with not a lot of demand hence low prices. It has nothing to do with stubhub and has everything to do with a tuesday night game in a city where a $300 plane ticket is a steal.
This is more on the bowl for charging so much for tickets than on StubHub.
I'm sure a lot of us hate StubHub, but it allows people to offer market value tickets, and that's all based on supply and demand. Clearly, the supply is big enough where the face value of the tickets is too high. StubHub takes a commission from the buyer and seller. It does not set the prices. It does offer people an opportunity to see the prices set though.
Screw you and your capitalism.
"I HATE SPENDING LESS FOR THE SAME THING!!!"
Maybe schools should better judge market value next time they sign a contract with the bowls.
If Michigan can't sell out its allotment of seats, the bowl system is in trouble. I often wonder what would happen if the major programs started telling the bowls that it is their responsibility to sell tickets and bear the loss if sales fall short of the mark - probably have a lot fewer bowls.
The problem isn't Stubhub, it's that schools are required to buy a massive amount of tickets at above market prices.
Exactly, the bowls put the University in a tough spot where they need to push overpriced tickets on their fan base in order to not lose a ton of cash. The system has to be changed soon, I'm shocked th schools still put up with it since almost every school loses out. Even Michigan, with a huge fan base playing in a big time bowl in a desirable location will be on the hook for about 2000 seats @ 125 per ticket. That's still big money, and it's almost best case scenario. Think about what VaTech is on the hook for? I bet they have over 5k unsold seats.
VaTech sold 10k of their 17.5k allottment. They got another 400 tickets sold via proxy to their fans who will donate them. And the ACC along with VaTech are donating another 5k or so to military personnel.
What screws the schools over is mandatory ticket purchases. It's illogical to direct your hate toward a site that gives you the opportunity to purchase a ticket for market price, particularly when that market price is way below the face value of the ticket. Do you also hate puts/calls because they encourage "speculation" and drive down/up the price of stocks?
it sounds like someone would like in-the-money options (which he's never owned), but does not care for out-of-the-money options (and he's had a ton of those). By directing anger at the Options Exchange, sub-optimal choices can continue until investment funds are exhausted.
good exposure for the schools ....but I agree with the consensus
I think this point gets overlooked, and I would upvote you if I could. The bowl system rips off schools and is generally run by crooked guys in bright colored blazers who are hauling in piles of cash unjustifiably. But when we think about building a new system, we shouldn't conclude that some financial loss by the school is necessarily a bad thing. The exposure is worth money (and recruiting hype, which leads to winning, which leads to happiness), so even if the school takes some financial hit, they may come out ahead.
I'm not saying that the massive financial shortfalls suffered by many schools is acceptable, or that the windfall should go to the Greater Phoenix Hotels Association (fictitious entity created to illustrate a point). But if we're tossing out proposals for modified bowl systems or playoffs, we should remember that straight revenue from ticket sales does not capture everything that the school gains from the bowl.
I wish Michigan would have told us where the seats are. I bought student tickets thinking I'd be down in the lower level for the game but got hit with seats int he 600s for $100. If I have known that, I would have waited to buy tickets for $15 on StubHub as they are currently listed. There's no way Michigan didn't know where the student section was beforehand and should have done us the service of telling us.
Not all students got stuck in the 600s. All the students I know got placed in the 100 level.
Keeping in mind that this is the same thing that happened last year for the gator bowl, and the year before that for whatever bowl there ever was. Stubhub has tickets. They sell priced for demand. Viola! Free market capitalists rejoice.
wow, only 86%? that surprises me, given its our first return to the bcs since the '07 rose bowl. oh well, i'm sure more will be sold, and the superdome will be big house jr.
What everyone is pretty much saying is that since you can get tickets on Stub hub for really cheap now, that noone is buying the tickets that Michigan still has to sell. Michigan is charging way more than what other seats are going for on Stub hub. If Michigan does sell it all of it's tickets, it will be late, close to game-day and only because all of the other tickets are gone.
"If I ever want a ticket from Stub Hub it always seems like they cost 5 times face value."
Are you being serious? I'm just curious because I use Stubhub quite often and the only time I've ever seen tickets for anything at 5x face value (or more) was last year's Stanley Cup Finals games in Vancouver. Everything else I've ever looked at on Stubhub has been well below that.
I think the 5x's was an exaggeration. But yes an under the lights ticket was above face value for a decent seat.
at the Necto downtown were selling on StubHub for over 10x face this year. I've actually never seen a ticket there for less than 2x face. I guess that's why I don't visit the site often.
to get tix to a sold out event, they're going to be selling for more than face. Now if you ever want tickets to pretty much any weeknight pro sporting event, go to StubHub and you will save big $$$.
Yes, if only we could pool our resources and distribute tickets to the people that deserved them most. We could appoint a panel of Michigan alums who would judge the most worthy ticket buyers. I too find it annoying that our greedy athletic department hogs all of the profits from games for itself to build world class facilities that will attract better athletes. Better that they should charge below market prices and keep the facilities at an acceptable level. Or better yet, they should take money from student tuitions rather than pass the cost of running a great football program onto the people watching the games.
In the hopes of not having this post categorized as flamebait let me offer the following serious response:
There's some truth to what you're saying. Bowl games are run by greedy guys who leverage the NCAA to create a situation where they profit unjustifiably. They're not adding a lot of value - they're just taking advantage of their positions to extract profit from schools.
But why are you critiquing Michigan for charging higher prices? The money to run a world class athletic department has to come from somewhere. It would be one thing if the department was using that money to line the pockets of its employees, but I don't think it does. I know you don't like it when ticket prics go up, but can you tell me what a better system would be?
Finally, you seem to be arguing that a ticket broker (or a few of them) can snatch up a bunch of tickets and just rake people over the coals, gouging them for outrageous prices. I think that the fact that tickets are currently $15 on StubHub should make you reconsider that theory. Yes, a ticket broker can grab up a bunch of tickets, speculating that prices will rise. And if he sells those tickets for the above market price, then he's making a lot of money and that's potentially annoying. But sometimes prices fall, and the broker is left holding the bag. I would hate to be a greedy ticket broker taking a $95/ticket loss right now.
are particularly enlightening, given that Michigan's selection for the bowl was due, in no small measure, to its ability to sell a large number of tickets to Michigan fans. If a large enough percentage of those same fans decide, in the future, to hold off on purchasing tickets through the Athletic Department, future bowl opportunities may be for the Insight.com Bowl, instead of the Sugar Bowl.
It's clearly a convoluted system, designed to separate those from Northern climates from their money.
journalists with SNP publications here in enemy territory, this system gives preference for these prestigious bowls to those fanbases that can deliver butts in the seats:
"Despite being in the Sugar Bowl, there's nothing sweet at all about this matchup, as it pits the two least deserving teams in BCS history against each other.
On one side, there's the Wolverines, a squad which beat absolutely nobody of note outside of the Out House, er I mean Big House. On the other, there's a Hokies bunch which was destroyed twice by the only team worth anything on their schedule (Clemson).
But since BCS officials can't see anything beyond the almighty dollar sign, putting two teams with rabid fan bases against each other just to sell tickets actually makes sense." - CHRIS MILES
This esteemed Mr. Miles goes on to predict a Blue victory, couched in additional insults. As if his pet team deserved to have all of *its* players in the Sugar Bowl last year?? No mighty dollar signs went into the decision to play the Tat5 in the game to get the now-vacated win over the SEC?? Or, that the rule that keeps the AQ's in the BCS games no matter how bad they are?? Take a look at the Orange Bowl this year, or almost any Big East entrant in recent years.
All this sloppy football tonight is making me crabby...
My response was a little snarky, but you ought to cool it with the name-calling. And in fairness, that really wasn't what oyu said in your original post. You complained about seat licenses and Michigan ticket prices rising, not just brokers.
You're also not necessarily correct that brokers undercut universities and make it harder for them to sell tickets. By buying up large blocks of tickets, brokers offer a sort of insurance for universities, who want to set one ticket price and not adjust it to the market later on. Think of it like the risk hedging that airlines do on fuel -- they enter into forward contracts for fuel, locking in one price for an extended period. They may come out ahead or behind, depending on what fuel costs do in the future. Regardless, they gain certainty on their financial outlook. For some more thoughts on the economics of ticket brokers, here's a good paper: There's more to it than what I wrote here - the summary of the findings is mostly on page 13. http://www.eui.eu/Personal/Courty/Pub/JEP.pdf
Do ticket brokers take a financial hit on every transaction? The one's that are still in business obviously don't. My point was not that they always lose, but rather that they don't always win. Why is that relevant? I took one of your complaints to be that ticket brokers make life miserable for ordinary fans. But that's not always true. If there were no ticket brokers, you'd be stuck paying $120 for a ticket that you could have for $15 to the Sugar Bowl. And if tickets sold out, you'd have to search harder (which is a cost to you) to find tickets.
So there's a partial response, free of snark. You can sum up all of my blathering in two sentences: secondary markets are useful for everyone. Not everyone wins on every individual transaction, but on net everyone is better off.
Or is it just traditional processes (distribute blocks of tickets to Universities to redistribute by post office delivery) colliding with more advanced internet based processes?
Clearly it's time for the Universities to turn the tables and allow the Sugar Bowl to sell thru- from the Alumni Websites, but the only reason Stub-Hub has tickets is because someone printed them all out and sold them, or is dumping physical tickets on the Stub-Hub distribution platform.
It's not going to end the bitching (like people will never stop bitching about buying Airline tickets which are just as volatile and sold "online") but it would shift the burden of the cost to the direct source of the entertainment, i.e. the Sugar Bowl.
Overall 1000 unsold tickets is small compared to the payout overall, and unlike what get's printed, the Big Ten pays out the expenses to the University up to 100% of the payout, so I think in the end Michigan and the Big Ten will be in the black on this bowl. Doesn't mean they shouldn't start leveraging for more of the profits, but if push came to shove, and the Sugar Bowl dumped Michigan and invited Boise State, would Boise State really say, "no thanks, I don't think we can move the tickets".
The reason this continues is because the Universities never refuse an invitation and, for the top bowls there is still profit for all, even if it is tilted to the Bowls.
One thing you could do instead of bitching online is to just not go to the bowl game and buy a ticket at all.
Well, I'm quite upset I bought mine early through the University now. 10 bucks? Damn it I screwed up.
I'm sorry you paid that much. That sucks (100% sincere).
On the other hand, selling out a Tuesday night game with two fanbases whose campuses are located >13 hours and >17 hours away who didn't win their conference championships shouldn't really be expected. Especially when said bowl is located in the same city as one of the biggest annual parties hosted a month and a half later (aka I'm not paying for Sugar Bowl and Mardi Gras flights even if I could get that Tuesday/Wednesday off after visiting family for Christmas...)
People can whine and complain but the writing was on the wall when the bowl was announced. This isn't really a new thing and something to remember next year for all bowls not called the Rose or National Championship.
posted in the wrong place. sorry.
Where are all of the StubHub tickets that are being sold coming from? Did the Sugar Bowl sell them cheap to Brokers who can still make a profit reselling them for $40 on StubHub?
Why don't the Universities write it in their contracts that the bowl is not allowed to sell its own tickets for less than what it charges the Universities for similar tickets?
Otherwise, why would anyone ever buy tickets from a University? Just wait for StubHub / Brokers to dump their below-University cost tickets.
Brokers speculate, in this case they are getting their ass handed to them.
I'm guessing they're cheap because there's no SEC team. I bet SEC people bought tickets thinking an SEC team would be playing and people would make the 2-5 hour drive, and then they could sell their tickets for jacked up prices. But since it's Michigan and VT, nobody local really wants to go that bad, and are just trying to get rid of their tickets.
your anger might be a bit misplaced. Stubhub is just a ticket market, there isn't some guy named Mr. Stubhub who sits behind a computer and controls the prices. If people really wanted to go to the game, they'd pay a lot. In this case, people don't really want to go that much, so tickets aren't that expensive.
This is good news for fans who are price-sensitive and couldn't afford the much steeper tickets that the school charged. Now some hardcore fans on a tight budget are able to go, thanks to Stubhub. All hail Mr. Stubhub!
hype it up a little [and I have just compared Brian Kelly to an exploding tomato], so what's next?
OCCUPY STUB HUB!!!!!
How would that work??
So what % of tickets of those allotted would Michigan theoretically have to sell in order to break even? Anybody have an idea if 86% will cover expenses?
The problem isn't StubHub. StubHub is a great way for buyers and sellers to get together and sell tickets at a market price. The problem with the bowls is that THEY screw over the schools by forcing them to buy tickets at an inflated price and bear the risk that not all the tickets will sell.
I agree its the bowl games fault. stub hub is a great resource, I went to half of the games this year and saved a ton off of buying tickets from them for games like Illinois and Northwestern. Also, I am sure I would have had to pay more for tickets to the Iowa game if I would have had to buy them from a scalper. I'm not a major university, I am a consumer and the best deal works for me. Now if I could just get a better deal on flying to New Orleans.
Something strange is going on with the Illinois basketball game. The game is nearly sold out, only singles remaining, and the stubhub prices are already getting out of hand. I fear an Illinois takeover is imminent, as of the non-restricted games(read MSU and OSU) Penn State(opener) and Illinois are the only ones currently approaching a sellout.
On a slightly unrelated note: TicketCity is usually a little cheaper
This really got me worked up too. I bought tickets through Michigan, thinking that the StubHub price would be double face value, only to find I could have got a BETTER ticket for a fifth of the price. I guess we're the idiots here.
I wonder if the Super Dome hosting 3 bowl games including the home state LSU Tigers has helped reduce the demand of the local population for the Sugar Bowl.
I also bought from the University. I feel stupid for wasting money, I am only mad at myself.
If - more generally - you're angry because we're not selling out, then blame the bowl system for negotiating a deal to put BCS bowls on week nights. It is probably a better financial deal and very logical/rational (ignoring whose pockets the money eventually winds up in) to do this, because the increased TV ad revenues from having one featured game per night outweighs having to sell tickets on the cheap.
Way more people would be going if they had not already taken the week prior (from Christmas to New Years) off of work.