Michigan Recruiting History Question

Submitted by Ziff72 on

Over the last couple of years I have found myself in arguments that I'm sure many of you have with friends, neighbors, family and co workers.    A complaint or argument I have heard from many of the old guard was 

1.  We need more size on defense, you need to stop the run like Bo and Mo and Lloyd for the Big Ten.

2. We need better recruits, Michigan should have their pick of All Americans like we used to.  We used to have All-Americans playing 3rd string.(Most were smart enough to realize times are different with scholly limits and it's just a different time). 

I'm not claiming to know the answer here just my observation and I'd like to hear from the Michigan family on their perceptions or actual knowlege as I think both are kinda myths.

1.  As I go thru my Michigan history in my head, I was too young for the early 70's but I recall in Bo's book about the walk on D. Werner playing nose guard at 190lbs and using his quickness to disrupt the offense.   When he talked about this Orange Bowl team they talked about how big Oklahoma was and all the 1st rd draft picks and how they had to fight to overcome this.  When they played Auburn in the Sugar Bowl they tell the story about how Bo Jackson laughed at how small we were until he was beat to a pulp from a thousand bee stings.  The most iconic players from the 80's were probably Messner and Hammerstein who were tiny for dlineman.  I can't really recall a giant beef eater on defense until we got G. Watson.   I'm sure we had some decent size guys on the line over time, but they never stood out that much to me.  So have we really always been an undersized defense based on speed and toughness?

2.  When people talk about Bo and maybe downgrade him a little bit or they are nostalgic for the old days of 10-1.  I hear how Michigan just out talented and out executed other teams and Bo was not that much a "schemes" guy.   I started thinking in my head of all the #1 picks and All Americans Michigan had and you know I it felt like we were a little low in that department compared to other high profile teams.  I looked at our draft history and http://www.drafthistory.com/colleges/m.html#Michigan and we didn't have many players with outstanding pro careers.  See if you think the same looking at our list.  Many of Bo's high profile pro guys like Dierdorf and Mckenzie weren't his recruits.  In his books he often talked about how he hated the "me" 1st studs like George(right) and Spielman (wrong).  So I know recruiting sites weren't around, but was Bo the king of the "3 stars" and just coached the fuck out of them with the mantra The Team The Team The Team really being true?   Or is this just my perception and it was just a different time?  Was there any buzz that Bo had to land this Leach kid?   How did Bo snake oil AC out of Florida?

I look forward to your thoughts.

.  

magnus_caerulus (not verified)

December 4th, 2010 at 9:22 PM ^

To me the days of Bo and Woody, and subsequently coaches who recruit to their systems, its all about simple schemes and out working your opponent.  Bo could recruit talent, but he molded that talent into the scheme.  Gary opened up the offense, and Lloyd continued a lot of what Gary did, but with more flair for Bo in certain years. 

Run the ball effectively, and stop the run effectively.  The spread made that philosophy a much harder task for opposing Defenses.  Right?  Yet, everyone has changed with the times, with the exception of molding their talent to fit their schemes. The question still remains, is that what we see that current staff doing?

In reply to by magnus_caerulus (not verified)

ohio-michiganfan

December 4th, 2010 at 10:38 PM ^

Why do people feel the need to reply to the first post and then write something that doesn't have anything to do with the first post. Your post is not so great that it needs to be up at the top.

umhannon

December 4th, 2010 at 9:33 PM ^

Bob Greene is still upset the internet dropped this bomb on him:

"Montana Tech’s (NAIA) head football coach Bob Green is a bundle of energy and is a walking quote machine whose delivery is a cross between a hillbilly, drill sergeant, and someone on speed balls. I know that our very own head man, Joe Smith, is known to drop some serious “quotables” but Coach Green is on a planet all by himself."

Now this. What next for the king of NAIA?

jhackney

December 4th, 2010 at 9:39 PM ^

from a reliable source that a rumor overheard by a bus boy at Pizza House, that a VIP from Michigan that knows a donating alum from Montana State, who has a niece at Montana Tech, that said she talked to Greene's stepdog, that Bob Greene said he may be interested in the head coaching and/or defensive coordinator job at the University of Miami (FL) and Michigan both.

Greg McMurtry

December 4th, 2010 at 9:41 PM ^

about a bigger defense is that with a 3-3-5 you have a 210lb LB instead of a 255lb OLB of a 3-4 or a 280lb DE of a 4-3. There is your size difference. It's not recruits it's the scheme. I really think that teams with big O-lines like Wiscy can run right over a 3-3-5 and there is some truth to complaints against it.

umhannon

December 4th, 2010 at 9:42 PM ^

No way. My VIP friend (a Montana state trooper named Chippy) told me that Herbstreit was looking into going to coaching and was recently seen wearing a diggers shirt while out on a jog in Bozeman, MT.

 

Banner

ST3

December 4th, 2010 at 9:51 PM ^

I vaguely remember hearing some story about how all UofM's offensive lineman in the Schembechler erea were at most 270 pounds because the scale only went up to 270. My High School coach is an M letterman, and he would do the same thing, except all our OL were 200 or less. I know one of the guys in my class was really 270. It's sort of a psychological trick when you get the other team thinking about why they are getting pounded by little guys, when in actuality, the little guys are really pretty big. That being said, I do remember Messner destroying teams with his quickness.  

ST3

December 4th, 2010 at 10:18 PM ^

I think they bumped it up to 299 because no one believed that Bubba Paris or Big Ed Muransky were only 270. Those guys and Greg Skrepanek were my favorite OL until Jake Long came around and revolutionized the position. And now we've got Taylor Lewan hating donkeys. This line with Molk, Schilling, and Omameh has been special.

blueheron

December 4th, 2010 at 9:58 PM ^

OP wrote: "The most iconic players from the 80's were probably Messner and Hammerstein who were tiny for dlineman.  I can't really recall a giant beef eater on defense until we got G. Watson.   I'm sure we had some decent size guys on the line over time, but they never stood out that much to me."

That makes two of us.  Under Bo and Mo, the D-line always seemed to be staffed by converted 3rd-string O-linemen and overgrown linebackers with stubby arms.  That position didn't see a lot of future pros.  I think Messner had some sort of career-ending injury.  Look at the career of another star, though:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HammMi20.htm

A back-up for four years.  Great player at Michigan, but not quite at the level of James Hall / LaMaar Woodley when it came to pro-level talent ...

JoeBlue18

December 4th, 2010 at 11:00 PM ^

You got to consider that most of these players on defense are Freshman or Sophmores... Seldom did we ever see that with past Michigan Defenses. With more time and work with
"Big Nasty Barwis" (My new nickname for him) the size will come