I see OSU is 31st. HA
"Coach Mattison told me what the Ravens were about, what he thought," Beyer said. "He definitely encouraged me. I hold his opinion in high regard."
I see OSU is 31st. HA
...if you went to Michigan because it is a good value? Thought so...
Thanks for the link, but that is a strange ranking system.
With in-state tuition, it was definitely a better value than Penn or Stanford.
It should be considering both of those are private universities
Point being that part of my calculus in selecting UM over Penn and Stanford was, in fact, value. Four years of UM in-state tuition was roughly equal to one year of the other two choices on my list.
Since the three schools were roughly comparable for my area of interest, I picked the superior value. These days, I'm told Michigan out-of-state tuition is comparable to Penn and Stanford and a host of other private schools.
It also happened to be the school four prior generations of my family had attended and whose football games I'd been attending since I was 2 1/2.
Until the Cal schools recently jacked their tuition through the roof, UM had the highest out of state costs in the country at around 43 or 44k. Five or six Cal schools are now higher than that, up to Berkeley at 47k and change.
Kids in college there are freaking out about being able to graduate on time because not only did they jack up costs but they cut classes, so it's getting really hard to fulfill your requirements. The Governator really needs to turn that place around. I can't imagine getting stuck with paying for an extra semester of college because I couldn't get into a required class I needed to graduate
Why is University of Buffalo at like $53k?
Interesting article, but it reads like one of those Forbes articles that said the Armed Services academies were great deals because tuition was practically $0. Of course, you also have to serve in the military for x number of years, but that apparently wasn't factored in.
I think this shows that there is good value to be found at public universities, but some of those names shocked me. As someone who now lives in NY, seeing some of those random SUNY schools as top values is a bit surprising.
It will be interesting to see what happens with the Cal schools as tuition jumps up. Suddenly, $40k+ to send your out-of-state kid (and the in-state tuition is also up) to UCSD might not be as appealing as it once was.
I don't get some of these schools
10. NC State. 37% graduation rate in 4 years, 70% in 6 years
12. New College of Florida. 45% in 4 years, 63% in 6 years.
It's great that schools are that cheap, but its no use to take 40 credits and drop out. graduating less than 75% of students is a terrible rate.
One of the true signs of how well your school is at student quality and campus support is looking at their 5-year grad rate (standard... I'm not sure who reports 6 years, UNC, UVA, California, and UM all report 5 year %)
1. UNC - 88%
3. UVA - 93%
13. UCLA - 89%
18. Cal - 90%
19. Michigan - 88%
Putting it differently, 4900 of our 5500 or so incoming undergrad classes will graduate within 5 years from Michigan. If our rate was only 70%, we'd only graduate 3900.
to what I would have felt if we hit that field goal at the end of The Horror. Appalachian State was way to close, but at least we beat them.
here come the nightmares.
And if the reagents don't indicate anything one way or another we just need something to catalyze their reaction.
Apply some heat and be patient.
Our academic prestige is the only thing that has us that high on the list. I think for a public schools list we should be a bit higher.
Still 10 places behind State University of New York College at Geneseo. DAMMIT.
Those numbers for OOS tuition for Michigan seem to be understated. I just paid my son's tuition for this semester. It was pushing 20K, and this is tuition only. Going to Michigan for an OOS student is probably a minimum of 50K when you add living expenses, travel, books, etc.
Obviously, the education is excellent, but it sure is pricey. Nobody is challenging the academic excellence, which is near the top for public U's.
Here's a question I have had for a while. I understand that 90% of funds from all sources that go into running U of M are not from the state of Michigan. The state's contribution shrinks each year. Since over 50% of the students come from the state of Michigan, there seems to be a significant financial bias against out of state students. There is a limit as to how far you can go raising expenses for out of staters. Do you think there is any chance that down the road the school will become private?
First of all, saying "near the top for public U's" isn't necessary. Near the top for U's, is more correct. There are only a handful of private schools that compete with UM, and just a couple publics.
As for privitizing UM, it would probably be best for the University, but it likely won't happen, even if the state gives them 1% of their budget. It needs to be voted on, either by the residents of the state, or by the regents (who are elected by the residents, and are supposed to voice the wishes of the residents). Since privitizing it will raise tuition for in-state students, the residents of the state (many of who either have kids who attened UM or have kids who want to attend someday) will have little motivation to vote for privitization. As an alum who lives out of state (and thus my kids will be out of state should they decide to apply), I am in favor of privitization, but since I'm out of state, I have no say in the matter.
I don't expect tuition increases to slowdown for out of state students anytime soon. Obviously there is a limit to how much they can charge and people will stop going. But kids continue to go there from out of state for the academic prestige. Michigan is by far the best school that offers a realistic chance to get into. Sure Berkley, Stanford, MIT, etc are outstanding schools. Michigan is selective but they do not reject any outstanding students. I have known some academic freaks of nature that got turned down from Stanford and Harvard (I mean guys that did PhD level research in their junior year of high school, got almost perfect SATs, 4.0, etc).
There are many kids that wish to go to a prestigious school even if its expensive. Kids that can't get into Stanford and MIT will gladly go to Michigan for 40K. If kids are willing to pay it will increase.
The university will never become private for the reasons already stated.. so you can expect out of state kids to continue paying a tuition equivalent to 3 state kids while being superior students.
Just so you know, the myth that out of state students are smarter than in-state students, or that it's more difficult to get into M from out of state, is completely untrue. I worked for the admissions office as an undergrad, and I'm really not sure where people get that idea.
If there are two application that are both borderline, what motivation does the school have to let in the in-state kid and not the out of state kid? In fact, the out of state student not only will pay more, but will also add to the diversity of the student body. Not that those things factor in anyway, I just don't see where this myth originates.
If anything, I'd think some of the top level kids would be from M, for money reasons. If you are a brilliant kid, accepted to UM, ND, NW, U of Chicago, those types, and you're from MI, UM is a comparable school for a third of the price. If that same kid was from out of state, he has 4 good options for all about the same price, and fewer of them will choose UM.
Don't they have a quota that they have to fill with in-state kids? OOS kids don't compete for those spots.
I guess you know more on the subject than I do though. I'm OOS so I'm obviously biased.. but I always felt the kids who came from outside of Michigan usually did better...
There is no quota of students. Keep this is mind also: There are roughly twice the amount of in-state students as out of state students, whereas in-state applications FAR exceed the number of out of state applications. There are other factors that go into this, but the % admitted of OOS students is actually higher than in-staters.
As for your anecdotal evidence, mine goes the other way. I was in one of the biggest fraternities on campus, and most of the smartest kids in my house were in-staters, even though most of the fraternity was from out of state. Again, this is just my experience against yours, but I bet you'll find many people on both sides of that. Depends on who your friends are, I suppose.
The OOS applicants are self-selecting though.. I'm betting that every Michigan kid applies for M, MSU, CMU, ect..
You're probably right though... thank you for clarifying that!
...in rural northern Michigan.
Michigan and MIT were the only schools I seriously pursued.
Would you like to play Double Jeopardy, where the scores can really change?
Why do you assume this? Michigan was the only in-state school I applied to. This was true for many of my friends at U-M as well. On the other hand, people I knew who ended up at CMU/WMU/EMU/et al. often didn't even bother applying to U-M.
Here's the thing about that - Michigan's application is much more involved than CMU, EMU, WMU, GVSU, or MSU. Those schools have an app similar to a job application: one to two pages of mostly general info. No essays, MAYBE a personal statement. UM has a much more time consuming application, with multiple essays which require a lot more time and thought. If you don't think you have an honest chance of acceptance, you probably aren't going to spend the time with the UM essays. That alone weeds out most of the not-so-serious applicants.
I have to believe that the statistics are readily available in the admissions office. If Freep could find some way of using the information in a negative way, their FOI request would be filed in a millisecond.
The one trend I've noticed with out-of-state tuition is that it has been going up consistently at virtually all prominent public universities. Sure, you can still get a deal somewhat at UNC and maybe one or two other schools, but most major public institutions have tuition in line with UM.
I agree - probably shouldn't have put "public" in the sentence. Being an alum also, and being biased, I think the whole package, academics, sports, culture, research, etc. may place Michigan at the very top of the list of all universities, public or private.
...they have a serious delusions of grandeur:
They are hardly a peer institution of BC, NYU, or Cornell. They do a good job producing teachers, and they seem to get enough of their grads into the media to land on lists like the one posted by the OP.
I know this because my narcissistic personality disorder/borderline personality disorder ex was a Geneseo grad and would not shut up about how it was just like Michigan.
What they really are is about 5000 bored kids in the middle of a huge alfalfa field. The male/female ratio is more like 33/67 from everything I've seen and heard.
I'd also like to point out that Playboy has cited the Geneseo bar "The Inn Between" as a, "Place to Be," mainly due to the presence of large quantities of attractive, bored, and barely-legal females. If you find yourself in the area, I highly recommend getting first-hand experience with the IB.