Michigan in the pistol

Submitted by BJ0017 on

After watching Nevada against Cal a few weeks ago and then UCLA torching the longhorns this past weekend, i think the pistol could be a good alternative to our usual 3 and 4 wide shotgun sets. We have had trouble at times running the ball with our running backs consistently. The pistol provides the downhill running of lloyd carr era, but also would allow Denard the space he needs only being 5'11 to see over the line a bit better on passing plays. I think it would be interesting to see our personnel use it as a package from time to time.

Magnus

September 29th, 2010 at 11:34 AM ^

I was never very critical of Shaw.  I did say that he doesn't seem to have the ability to be "special" which I still stand by.  He's not a superstar in the making or anything.  I'd still rather have him get the majority of the carries if Vincent Smith is the other option, though...

chitownblue2

September 28th, 2010 at 3:45 PM ^

If the running GAME continues to operate at such a high LEVEL regardless of the PRODUCTION of the running BACKS, why do we CARE who runs the BALL?

The running game is exceedingly productive. This is like complaining about Calvin Johnson because he's a mediocre fiddler, or Santonio Holmes for being a can of olives.

Fuzzy Dunlop

September 28th, 2010 at 3:47 PM ^

Well, yes.  Are you suggesting the offense is perfect, and there is no conceivable room for improvement?  Despite Denard's amazing performance against Notre Dame, we did punt ten times.  Wouldn't a potentially amazing offense be even better if we had an incredible RB threat to complement Denard?

(Those are rhetorical questions, by the way).

chitownblue2

September 28th, 2010 at 3:54 PM ^

Rhetorical or no:

Yes, I think suggesting scheme changes to the #2 rushing offense (in yards AND yards per carry) in college football is stupid. What if we had an amazing RB to pair him with? You mean, so we could take carries away from the guy leading the NCAA in YPC?

Fuzzy Dunlop

September 28th, 2010 at 4:03 PM ^

1.  I didn't say we should make any scheme changes.  I said the OP's idea was stupid.

2.  Are you actually suggesting that it would be a bad thing for this offense to have a top tier runningback?  Because Steve Slaton hurt Pat White so much?  Way to show faith in Rodriguez, to suggest that he couldn't use a top-tier runningback effectively without hurting the overall offense.  Maybe I'm misinterpreting you, but this sounds like one of the stupidest thing I've ever heard on these boards. 

chitownblue2

September 28th, 2010 at 4:16 PM ^

I'm not suggesting it's a bad thing to find an elite running back. What I'm saying is that specific point (having an awesome player at a position would be good) is so blindingly obvious that I hardly see how it merits mention. Of COURSE I'd like Steve Slaton. I'd also like Jake Long and 2000 Steve Hutchinson,Jerry Rice, and Gandalf.

But Steve Slaton, Jake Long, 2000 Steve Hutchinson, Jerry Rice, and Gandalf aren't on this roster, so it's really a moot point, right?

The real issue, from what I can tell, is "are you concerned that the running backs are not more effective?". My answer is "No, because at their current production level, we are the second most effective running game in NCAA Football, so I don't give shit who's running the ball."

Magnus

September 28th, 2010 at 9:31 PM ^

If the running GAME continues to operate at such a high LEVEL regardless of the PRODUCTION of the running BACKS, why do we CARE who runs the BALL?

Because Denard running the ball 30 times a game is bound to get him dinged up?  Because he's missed parts of three games already due to getting bruised and beaten?

cfaller96

September 29th, 2010 at 4:11 PM ^

The fun part of dealing with Magnus is that he's so stubborn about his beliefs that you can present facts to him and he'll ignore them, thus exposing himself as an ass.

Because Denard running the ball 30 times a game is bound to get him dinged up?

Uh, playing Denard for 60+ plays a game is bound to get him dinged up.  I think what you mean to say is "Denard running the ball 30 times a game is bound to get him dinged up <i>more than a normal QB</i>."

But in fact, there's no evidence to suggest such a thing.  Once again Magnus clings to his gut, the facts be damned.

Magnus

September 29th, 2010 at 8:20 PM ^

Let's see here...

Since Denard usually isn't going to get much contact when handing off the ball, handoffs usually aren't going to get him injured.  So those plays can be discounted (although he has blocked on a few plays).

Denard has passed the ball 57 times, and he has been injured on 0 of those dropbacks.  That's an injury rate of 0%.

Denard has rushed the ball 79 times, and he has been injured on 3 of those rushes (injury = missed at least one snap).  That's an injury rate of 3.8%.

3.8% > 0%

If these injury rates continue for the remainder of the season, we can expect Denard to get hurt on about 1 out of every 25 runs.  However, he could drop back a billion times and not get hurt once.

(I know that's kind of ridiculous...but luckily for me, my gut feeling is backed up by the statistics.)

So is it safer to have him pass the ball and hand off the ball more often than running it?  Absolutely.

I'm not going to continue this discussion, because you're obviously incapable of having a conversation without hurling insults, calling names, etc.  But in the words of Les Miles, "Have a great day."

jmblue

September 28th, 2010 at 2:43 PM ^

They looked great the last two games against FCS and MAC competition, but they struggled mightily against BCS teams. 

You might note that those two games against BCS teams were the first two games of the season and that the other two were the third and fourth games.  The trend is positive.  The backs are gaining experience and seem more comfortable finding holes, and the OL is gelling more and more (the addition of Lewan helps, too). 

ijohnb

September 28th, 2010 at 2:10 PM ^

is going to go out as quick as you can say ""Indiana runs the pistol."  I mean, what is the utility in that formation.  A half shot gun, I just don't see it bringing much to the table.  It looks like running backs get a better head of steam running out of the shot gun than the pistol.  All the headaches of a shotgun snap with few of the benefits.  It is a gimmick, and its days are numbered.

(Speaking of shotgun snaps, not to nit pick a 4-0 team, or one of our best players, but does it not seem as though Michigan's snaps are irresponsibly and consistently low right now?)

Michigan4Life

September 28th, 2010 at 2:35 PM ^

are gimmick.  This is my biggest pet peeves when uninformed fans see formation(s) that aren't popular(yet) say that it's a gimmick offense.  Obviously, it didn't work for Nevada who is #4 in the country in total offense.  It's like people saying that RR's offense is gimmicky because it's a spread offense.

Pistol offense is a very good formation because it provides downhill running and it doesn't tip in the direction of runs because the RB is lined up right behind the QB.  You can do playaction, veer, zone read or any other conventional running plays.

In reply to by ijohnb

Anonymosity

September 28th, 2010 at 3:27 PM ^

Man, you really hate the Pistol, don't you?

How do you know it's a gimmick?  Can you see into the future?  No, it is a viable offensive formation with it's own set of advantages and disadvantages, like every other formation.

BlueGoM

October 2nd, 2010 at 1:08 AM ^

Molk had a few that were low, Tate fumbled one - when he threw deep and Roundtree (?) drew a PI penalty.

I don't think it'll be a problem.  We won't have 4-5 bad snaps that essentially killed drives like we did last season against IU.

ntl002

September 28th, 2010 at 2:11 PM ^

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't we run a few plays out of the pistol against OSU last year? However, if I remember correctly, said plays were woefully ineffective...

DesHow21

September 28th, 2010 at 2:12 PM ^

Putting up JUST 721 yards in a game against a D1 opp is NOT GOOD ENOUGH. 

Hey Rod, check out this new Pistol offense and dump your "read-option" bullshit that has only got you so far ( BCS bowl wins, job at Michigan, Heisman candidate QB etc).  

BJ0017 just did you job for you. You can thank him later. 

/s

SpreadGuru

September 28th, 2010 at 2:13 PM ^

The reason that teams go to the Pistol from the Spread is that they would like their backs to run more "downhill" versus laterally to a cut.  A big powerback will find more success in the Pistol that in the RR Spread.  Have you looked at our backs?  With the exception of Hopkins, their skill sets are better fitted to run laterally and cut on the outside zone or to plant their foot in the ground and hit the cutback on the inside zone.  Also, the Pistol changes the mechanics of the "zone read."  WHY IN THE HELL WOULD WE MESS WITH THAT?  Coach Rod is adding wrinkles every week (See the double flex TE formation from last week).  The Pistol changes backfield mechanics and that would be absolutely stupid to do.

 

Michigan = Ranked #1 in Total Offense

Michigan = Ranked #1 in Rushing Offense

 

Come on man...

grand river fi…

September 28th, 2010 at 2:21 PM ^

The reason that teams go to the Pistol from the Spread is that they would like their backs to run more "downhill" versus laterally to a cut.  A big powerback will find more success in the Pistol that in the RR Spread. 

I totally agree it's unneccessary, but I wouldn't be surprised to see it inserted as a wrinkle at some point.

madtadder

September 28th, 2010 at 2:39 PM ^

I definitely remember him saying last year in preparation for Indiana that we have some plays out of the pistol in our playbook. We also have some plays out of the I formation. Just because we have plays in our playbook doesn't mean that is our new offense. As you say, it could be a wrinkle, and something extra for teams to prepare for. Nothing wrong with that.

ander2ta

September 28th, 2010 at 2:14 PM ^

Hm... I know that our Offense is fine, so I would assume that you're talking about moving Denard to Defense and implementing a new Pistol Formation on Defense.

 

... I like it?

cfaller96

September 28th, 2010 at 2:17 PM ^

Ingredients

  • 1 tablespoon olive oil
  • 2 tablespoons butter
  • 1 clove garlic, minced
  • 6 skinless, boneless chicken breast halves
  • 1 (16 ounce) package linguini pasta
  • 1 onion, chopped
  • 1 cube chicken bouillon, crumbled
  • 1/2 cup water
  • 1 1/4 cups heavy cream
  • 3/4 cup milk
  • 4 green onions, sliced diagonally into 1/2 inch pieces
  • 1 cup grated Parmesan cheese
 

Directions

  1. In a large saute pan, heat oil, butter and garlic over medium heat. Add chicken and cook until juices run clear. Remove chicken from pan let cool and slice diagonally into long strips. Reserve oil in pan.
  2. Meanwhile, cook pasta according to directions on package. Drain.
  3. Reheat oil in pan, add onion and saute, stirring often, until onion is soft but still white. Add bullion cube and water; bring to a boil and simmer uncovered for approximately 10 minutes. Stir in cream, milk, green onions and Parmesan cheese.
  4. Place pasta in a bowl, layer chicken slices in a decorative pattern over pasta, pour sauce over top of chicken and around pasta. Garnish with parsley or any herbs you desire. Serve immediately.

AZBlue

September 28th, 2010 at 2:57 PM ^

I subscribe to the FoodNetwork "Insider" service and it is clear you don't know anything...

Shallots and Peccorino are much better fits for this recipe.......Green Onions and Parmesian are square pegs you are trying yo fit into round holes!!

BOOM (famous chef guy)-ED!!

CalifExile

September 28th, 2010 at 3:15 PM ^

Notre Dame:

 

Michigan Rushing
Player Carries Yds Avg TDs
D. Robinson 28 258 9.2 2
V. Smith 7 17 2.4 0
M. Shaw 5 12 2.4 0
S. Hopkins 1 1 1.0 1

Connecticut:

 

Michigan Rushing
Player Carries Yds Avg TDs
D. Robinson 29 197 6.8 1
V. Smith 14 51 3.6 1
M. Shaw 15 48 3.2 1
. Team 1 -2 -2.0 0
K. Grady 1 -3 -3.0 0
D. Gardner 1 -4 -4.0 0

Just FYI, the D. Robinson listed isn't a running back.