just saw the same story. The only hope we have is the fact that the list "remains flexible". I wonder if the NCAA findings played a role in us not even being top 10 for an in-state stud.
Michigan out of the running for Lawrence Thomas
I guess the big thing is that it seems the talent level delta between U-M and MSU is decreasing. Most of this seems to be that MSU is recruiting better than U-M is recruiting poorly.
Another question would be how MSU is doing against U-M for the kids both programs want. A quick list from this year of kids MSU got over us:
Max Bullough (Rivals doesn't say U-M offer, but I assume we'd take him)
Marcus Rush (?)
I'll take Dorsey, Gardner, and Christian. Thanks.
And a quick list from this year of kids we got over MSU:
Counting Bullough as an MSU recruiting victory over UM is like counting Jeremy Jackson as a UM win over MSU. It's completely ridiculous.
And Marcus Rush would've been Blue if UM had wanted him. We slow played him, so he picked State.
is this bullough kid??? scout and rivals both have him as a 4 star... but what i don't understand is he plays in traverse city and i'm guessing that the talent level up there isn't nearly as good as it is in metro detroit... so did put on an awesome show at all of the camps he we to or did he just put up crazy numbers in high school???
He didn't really do any camps I don't believe, he only considered ND or MSU and obviously chose MSU. He made his decision about 14 months before LOI day, was only looking for those 2 offers and decided. I am not sure why he is a 4star and not a 3star or a 5star for that matter.
Will Gholston lived with an MSU booster/alum. He was fed nothing but MSU 24 hours a day. Max Bullough, similarly, was never going to M.
Outside of those guys, you could count Schofner as a win for MSU, but you can't say Marcus Rush because he only went to State when he found out we didn't want him. Mylan Hicks is a good player, but he chose to be the #1 CB in MSU's class instead of the #3 (maybe) CB in ours. Technically, he had offers from both and chose them, but it was a position group that we aced in that class, and we didn't pursue him hard at all. Dior Mathis was a much more highly sought after CB than Hicks, and I wouldn't say we "lost" him to Oregon because we cooled on him.
Here's hoping he goes out of conference.
No, here's to hoping he goes to MSU and we pound the damn ball down his throat for 4 years!!
Oh come the fuck on Magnus. You know that's a dumb statement to make, even if you are currently technically correct.
Also, hard to be out of the running for something you were never in.
What's with the "come the fuck on Magnus"? What exactly did I say to upset you?
The article specifically states that Thomas has narrowed it down to 10 (not including Michigan)
you even admitted in your post that we're out of the running because we "were never in" it.
So why the dickishness?
He is probably just pissed that we are already out of the running on a top in-state kid.
We are all bummed, but some of us know how to handle it better than others.
No, we are not all bummed.
Some of us, really, could care less about stuff like this 11 months out from signing day. Again, if the kid wants to go elsewhere, good luck to him. Better for the coaches, so they don't waste time and resources recruiting the kid.
I believe that is the tenor of the post above.
That is decidedly NOT the tenor of ShockFX's post.
If you interpret that from "Come the fuck on Magnus. What a stupid statement. It's hard to be out of a race that we were never in," then I envy your mind-reading skills.
I highly doubt Shock is "pissed" or "bummed" that a kid narrowed down his list for unofficial visits and Michigan isn't on it.
I realize you have a vested interest, as a perceived expert, in having everyone's mood on this board rise and fall based on the mood changes of 16 year old recruits, as well as having them listen to your expert determination of where they are going to play in college.
Let's be honest - we're 11 months out. It doesn't matter - the coaches will fill the class and Michigan will move forward. If Lawrence Thomas doesn't want to be a part of it, well, I'll try to cope.
Actually, at no point in this thread have I offered any kind of emotional reaction to Lawrence Thomas's list. I have no interest in toying with the emotions of people on this board. I simply quoted part of the article and provided a link.
I saw an article about a potential 5-star in-state linebacker and thought it was relevent/pertinent, since it was the first article I've seen where it "officially" eliminated Michigan from his list.
Personally, I DON'T CARE that it's eleven months out. If this article were stating that "Lawrence Thomas just committed to Michigan!" I'm sure you wouldn't be sitting there saying, "Ho-hum, who cares? It's still 11 months away from signing day." You didn't accrue 7781 points by not caring.
The article is relevant. I posted it. ShockFX's response wasn't warranted, and your justification of his post put a bunch of words in his mouth.
If anybody here is showing an emotional response, you might want to look in the mirror, Mr. Who-Cares-I-Only-Want-People-Who-Want-to-Play-for-Michigan.
Enjoy your day Magnus.
"I saw an article about a potential 5-star in-state linebacker and thought it was relevent/pertinent, since it was the first article I've seen where it "officially" eliminated Michigan from his list.
And next week, when he mentions Michigan interest again, we'll have a-whole-fucking-nother article on it, and a corresponding thread that going to rehash the same fucking nonsense. I mean, fuck Magnus, I'd expect more from you than to join in this cycle.
I can't wait for the next thread accusing evil Renassiance from kidnapping LT and preventing him from joining his childhood favorite team. Will that be before or after the post about the Freep's article about LT going to MSU and Dantonio locking down the state?
If you don't want to take part in a message board where news about 5-star in-state recruits is reported, then maybe this isn't the place for you.
Regardless, I was reporting news. I did NOT - and still have not - start whining about Renaissance and their coaches, MSU, etc. Since Lawrence Thomas recently visited Michigan, I thought other Michigan fans would be interested in knowing that we're still not in his top 10.
I apologize for littering MGoBlog with recruiting news.
It looks like there are a few threads about women's hoops, Tiger Woods, European footy-ballers, Bucknut's letter about rushing the court, and a new fall show on the BTN. Maybe you should stick to those threads, since recruiting news doesn't seem to be up your alley.
Signing day is ELEVEN months away lol. For all we know there could be a new coach next year ( I hope not personally) and this time last year 90% of the people on this board had no idea who the hell Demar Dorsey was. Two years ago William Campbell eliminated us on signing day only to be bull shitting and pick us.
The swings of recruiting 11 months away from signing day gotta love it
I was not disagreeing with your post Magnus. It was actually informative, and you posted a link. It's just that I think it is humorous that he "trimmed his list..." like if Michigan goes 9-3 or 8-4 with a statement win ove MSU are we really going to be off his list?? Doubt it. Kids change their minds alot, especially kids with 27 offers! we have 11 months to make up ground, and it starts with winning in the fall.
I didn't interpret it that way.
No, this is a dumb statement to make:
"that's a dumb statement to make, even if you are currently technically correct."
I don't know that UM was "eliminated" but it does not look at all favorable for you guys,
EDIT; NM that was a cut down list
looks like we are in on and will land a few similar LBs if not better. We recruit what we need instate and if that doesn't work we always can go elsewhere for talent ... Go Blue!
I am being serious here because I would really be happy to know that we are in on LB's that are as good as or better than Thomas. Who are they? I didn't know we had a lot of guys his calibre on our radar.
Trey DePriest is one.
Trey DePriest and Curtis Grant are the two best linebackers we've offered so far, aside from Thomas.
I had heard a lot about Depriest and from what I have seen here (and other places) it seemed there were about as many people who thought Thomas was better than DePriest as thought DePriest was better than Thomas. What are your opinions on the two? While you're at it, could you throw Grant in the comparison as well as I know very little about him, and have no talent at all for breaking down a players skills.
I think Thomas is the best player of the bunch, but I also think he'll be too big to be a linebacker. He even looks too big now, and he's only in high school. I think he'd be a liability in coverage.
To me, DePriest is the next best player of the three. I think he could play either ILB position, although WILL would probably be best. He's a big hitter, and he seems to be good at staying clean and avoiding blockers.
Grant is the third best of the three. He's not as good of a HITTER as DePriest, from what I've seen, but he's a very solid tackler. Instead of going for the kill shot, he wraps the guy and brings him down with force. The thing that concerns me about Grant is that he doesn't shed blocks very well, in my opinion. He's a solid tackler and can really run, and he "looks" like an ideal MIKE...but if he can't shed blocks, well, that might be another Obi Ezeh in the making.
Why does anyone even think we're going to get him. He is being "tactfully" steered away from us. He probably thinks the program steals babies, knowing the voice that's in his ear. Don't even waste your time thinking we have a "chance".
on campus and talked with RR. That was an improvement. Despite the fact this was unlikely, his recruitment and attitude toward Michigan deserves consideration going forward if only to see any signs of possible detente with Watts.
I can't see this Rivals piece...I take it he doesn't mention Michigan at all.
There's no mention of Michigan whatsoever.
on his short list....
Certainly a bummer though not unexpected in the end. A little surprised however that we were elimnated so soon considering he did make the recent trip to campus.
Perhaps this list is, as stated, a summary of "upcoming unofficial visits." If he recently took such a visit to Michigan, it makes sense that we would not be on this list. It doesn't mean we are out of contention for his recruitment.
Then again, I can't read the entire article to give Magnus's quote any context.
I'm not going to quote the whole article, since it's behind a paywall. But it's not just a list of "upcoming unofficial visits."
The "rough outline" means he's going to visit a few schools on that list, like Florida, Miami, and Notre Dame.
And if that list doesn't include Michigan due to the fact that he just visited here, why would it include MSU, a place with which he's very familiar?
We pay for MICHIGAN rivals, but they always seem to do these articles on the kids we don't get or even have a shot on getting. I say fuck him, if he goes to a school that steers him away from here, don't give him any attention then. It's not like he wasn't getting any attention from all media at an event he didn't even participate in last week......let THEM stroke his ego.
...because the piece was written by Irish Illustrated, Notre Dame's Rivals affiliate, not The Wolverine.
It came across "The Ticker" on Rivals because Thomas is of interest to Michigan fans, since he's...you know...a 5-star talent from the state of Michigan.
It's 11 months from signing day. I wouldn't be too confident in anybody being in or out at this point. Admittedly, circumstances are not going to help UM, but there's a long way to go.
The previous season(s) are what determine a recruits interest more than the current season most of the time. If a team is eliminated this early it is very unlikely they're legitimately reconsidered in the next 11 months.
Thanks for the informative update.
It just seems pretty obvious to me; was it ND's 3-9 season in '07 that brought in the #1 recruiting class (in '07) or the 9-3 and 10-3 seasons that preceded it?
...That we're at this point where we're not even in the top ten list of an IN-STATE kid at a position of extreme need with the depth chart looking pretty good for playing time. It doesn't matter that his coach doesn't like Rich Rod. It certainly never really used to. Besides, he came up to Michigan for a personal meeting with our coaches with another one of his own coaches. And no, I'm not making a jab at Rich Rod. I'm just saying that this has gotten pretty bad when so many top in-staters are liking Michigan State more than Michigan. First Gholston, then Thomas, and also Arnett. It's not like MSU has such a great program. They went 6-7 last year. So WHY THE HELL is MSU so much more popular with in-state recruits now? It's not that RR isn't recruiting in-state. He's recruited all of the above kids extremely heavily. So what's the x-factor?
The x-factor is everything people around here have been complaining about for the past year or two. No stability on the defensive coaching staff, a head coach on the hot seat, bad in-state press, major violations by the coaching staff, a coach at Renaissance who hates UofM, etc.
How can a HS football coach have that much power over a kid? Fred Smith, Hankins, and Lawrence Thomas all grew up fans of Michigan and have been steered away by a flipping HS football coach. Makes you wonder where the family is in all of this and how can a kid so easily be swayed?
I'm sorry, but if my childhood favorite offered a scholarship there is no way I could eliminate them this early in the process. The really sad thing about this is that Renaissance's coach has no valid reason for this hatred of Michigan.
Hopefully, things change in the class of 2012 as it seems like Cass Tech is loaded and Mr. Ross at OLSM wants to play with the Tech guys as they have grown up playing youth football together.
It's Rich Rod. Why? That I don't know. And like I just mentioned below, I don't think that these HS coaches really do have that much effect on a kid's recruitment. I mean, I think that a lot of these kids really value their coaches' opinions, but I don't think that most of these coaches would be able to keep their jobs for very long if they were lobbying so heavily against a certain school. School boards and Athletic Directors wouldn't allow it. Which is why, as I pointed out above, a coach actually came with Thomas to meet with Michigan's staff personally. I'm pretty sure that everyone is blowing this whole "Thomas' coach hates us" thing way out of proportion. It may have been a slight factor, but from what I've seen of this guy in interviews, he seems to have a fairly level head on his shoulders. Most coaches like that know that this is an important decision in a kid's life and that they shouldn't be the ones dictating to a kid what they should do. I think he may give some advice and drop a "I don't think Michigan's the place for you" line here and there, but I'm pretty sure that's the extent of it.
I don't mean to be a dick, but do you honestly believe that?! The public schools in Detroit have a few problems that would probably take precedent over this. I really don't think that they could give a shit about a coach steering kids away from a certain university.
"seems to have a fairly level head on his shoulders". Good thing because football helmets have a hard time staying on when kids have crooked heads.
While I can not explain why the Renaissance coach has such a hatred for M I can understand how he feels. OSU, MSU & ND have never wronged me in anyway other then by being the enemy, yet I still have a severe hatred for them. My guess is the coach over at Renaissance has come to his conclusions in the same manner if there is no other visible explanation.
In a Scout article last week it said that when Thomas was in AA he talked to GERG and GERG said something along to the lines of "we're gonna let you play MLB but we think you might eventually grow into a DE"
Thomas' response was something like "It sounded stupid...I play in the middle, I've always played in the middle, and I have no interest in DE".
After reading that article i knida thought he was done with us. You know, because his coaches at Renaissance know what position he should play in four years better than a former Superbowl winning D-Coordinator
brandon graham played MLB in highschool and then ended up playing DE in college.... hey lawrence, how did that move work out for brandon???
That is the way they were steered from any early age. There are players that will only look at UM for similar reasons. I don't see this as a big issue.
Oddly, you say that pretty often. It's a gross overstatement. What I am saying, is that it never should have been at the point in the first place that we didn't have a chance with these kids. Gholston's and Thomas' coaches both should have had almost no effect on their recruitment. Recruits' coaches haven't liked us in the past and we've still landed kids. It happened just last year, in fact. Marvin Robinson's coach hated Michigan and was an Ohio State fan. Guess where Robinson is now.
this news makes me a little sad. Like someone said above though, it is a long way from signing day so who knows what will happen between now and then.
Don't you just hate shitty news in the morning?
GOD I miss college.
Perhaps my mental health should not revolve around the choices of random high school football players as much as it does... perhaps.
because then he will regret not picking Michigan after they pound his ass for 4 straight years.
giving the ol' Drew Stanton treatment in some circles ... (not that Stanton ever wanted to go to UM, even after going 0-fer, but you know what I mean ... ;)
Didn't we agree yesterday that it would be ... ;) )?
is an msu player more likely to beat michigan or beat (up) a frat dude?
or his coaches don't want him to come here, he should go somewhere else, and Michigan can focus on two things:
(1) Winning 10 games again, which might turn Thomas's head;
(2) Bringing kids to Michigan who actually want to go to Michigan.
Never had a chance, to many people talking negatove about us in his ear
We have a better national recruiting base than MSU, but let's not kid ourselves. We can't keep getting shut out of the best talent in the state and expect to beat MSU any more than 50% of the time (if that). Michigan has historically relied on a huge talent gap to beat MSU teams that put a much greater emphasis on beating UM than UM puts on beating MSU. Without that talent gap, I don't know what happens to us. We've already seen that Dantonio can get a team with zero talent to play even with a highly talented Michigan (2007) and basically hand our asses to us when they have the better players ('08 and '09). Lawrence Thomas could be a four year starter at Michigan and he's not even giving us a look alongside Michigan State? (where he might actually have to compete for a job). Color me extremely worried.
Perhaps I need to rethink my definition of "getting our asses handed to us" because 2009 definitely didn't feel like that to me. And here I thought "overtime" meant it was a close game...
MSU dominated us for about 55 minutes the way that we dominated Delware State. Yardage total before Michigan's first TD drive was about 380-80. You're kidding yourself if you think that the final score was even remotely reflective of how the game was played. In the end, the final score is the only thing that matters, but teams who get outgained in a game by 166 total yards rarely win games, and I have yet to see an indication that this year will be different.
The scoreboard doesn't count total yards.
C'mon Magnus, his point stands. They pushed us around for most of the game, even if we managed to tie it up late.
"Getting our asses handed to us" =/= overtime game
That's not even close to making sense. If Woolfolk didn't have a bum shoulder and actually tackled Larry Caper, we very well might have won the game.
"the final score is the only thing that matters"
and that renders everything else you wrote irrelevant.
When Michigan wins a game this fall despite being horribly out-gained in total yardage, I hope you respond that you feel the win isn't really a win.
I'll toast victory, you can whine about aesthetics.
Luckily for us they don't stop games before we score all of our points. We would be screwed if they took away 92 yard scoring drives such as the one Tate led us on at the end of the game.
Also, in 07, we outgained Appy St. by around 100 yards....can we count that one as a win?
an indication that this year will be different." O RLY? In March, before spring practice, you haven't seen anything to suggest we're playing better football in September? You don't like our statistical improvement since last November? I think Tate's accuracy has really been on.
The level of impatience is just staggering. It used to be that around here, people couldn't wait years for things to turnaround. Then it became less than a year. Now we're supposed to be winning the yardage battle for our Oct 9 MSU game during spring break or people aren't satisfied with the progress.
First of all, that "no talent" Michigan State team in 2007 went 7-5 in the regular season (Michigan was 8-4) and featured guys like Devin Thomas, Javon Ringer, and Jehuu Caulcrick. That was not a bad team. The game was also played in East Lansing, and shit happens on the road in rivalry games (see Michigan-Michigan State the very next year, when a 3-9 Michigan team led a 9-3 Michigan State team into the 3rd quarter). They hardly handed our asses to us in either 2008 or 2009.
Second, you don't really make any sort of point other than "Lawrence Thomas to MSU is bad." Well, yeah, it's bad, but to be extremely worried about a handful of recruits is silly. The only players Michigan has really lost out to the last two years who didn't go to Renaissance are Edwin Baker, Larry Caper, and maybe Max Bullough. The pipeline stuff is going to happen, it really shouldn't worry you.
Wait, so because we we haven't gotten the best talent in Michigan lately means we won't beat MSU more than 50% of the time? I don't get it. Our recruiting hasn't changed since RichRod has gotten here. In the past, if we have been shut out and not gotten great instate talent (not that there is an abundance of it in the first place), we have just gone out of state and gotten great players. If you are truly worried about Dantonio's classes that rank in the upper 20's (with Gholston part of it), then I don't know what to tell you.
this is some of the worst logic I have ever read on this board.
"If MSU beats us in recruiting one state, there is NO WAY we can ever make up the talent gap by recruiting the other 49 states that we have far more access to than MSU!"
Despite all the hand-wringing, RichRod is "landing" in-state 5-star recruits at about the same rate as Lloyd. This is from a quick scan of the Scout and Rivals sites:
Depending on the recruiting service, there have been 11 (Scout) or 7 (Rivals) 5-star recruits in MI since 2002 (I'm not including the 2011 kids). Michigan has signed 7 of the 11 (Scout) or 5 of the 7 (Rivals). There have been 4 since 2008 (we missed on 1) and 7 from 2002-2007 (we missed on 3).
Lloyd missed on a few (RoJo, Barksdale, Kyle Brown) and RR has missed on one so far (Gholston).
And that rate will only increase once Michigan gets back to its winning ways.
Also, would I be wrong in thinking we were never actually in the running for Thomas? Like you said, RR has only missed on 1 in-state 5* (Gholston) and it seems like he'll miss on Thomas, but as long Renaissance is run by the same people, Michigan will continue to miss out on their prospects no matter who is coaching here.
I don't have any inside knowledge of the REASONS we missed on these guys (though I read the same speculation as everyone). I approach it this way--every situation with a recruit is unique and I try not to get too bent out of shape trying to devine the specific reasons a 17/18 year old kid chose or did not choose Michigan. In the end, we get our share of the MI talent that we pursue, and we get our share of the out of state talent as well. Now let's coach them up and play.
1A) 5th Year Senior Ezeh
1B) Jr. Fitz
3) Walk-on undersized Leach
4) RSo. / Special Teamer Demers
5) To-be redshirted "super-sleeper" recruit Ryan
If I am a 5-star all-everything MLB, I'm taking a closer look at UM... worse case scenario I'm starting my So. year
Ezeh's gone after this year. He wouldn't matter to Thomas.
If Ezeh starts this year, then the MLB is wide open in 2011 with zero starting experience. Fitz would be a Senior with 0 starts (and that would be very telling considering he would of sat for 3 years behind Ezeh!), Ryan a RS-Fr. with zero game experience, special teams player Demers, and walk-on Leach. good chance for Thomas to start as a true freshman.
If Fitz starts this year, the presumption would be that he would be the returning starter in 2011. Thomas would be looking at starting as a So. in 2012.
Either way, the depth chart at MLB looks perfect for a MLB recruit.
I am not one who is usually the spelling police but I have seen this way too much over the past couple of months. Typing would of =/= would've nor would have.
As I said, I am not usually concerned with this stuff, but seeing this for the millionth time in the past 2 months is too much.
and it is not the end of the world.
And I don't blame Lawrence Thomas for wanting to see what else is on offer out there. I do wish he would give Michigan a chance and not write them off from the get-go.
A steady diet of negative UM press, myopic H.S. coaches and guidance counselors, and the sure-to-come onslaught of negative recruiting (picture copy of NCAA allegations in hand of all MSU and OSU recruiter home visits going forward) - yeah, that's a hell of a combination to overcome. So Michigan is going to lose out on a number of kids and people are slamming the panic button.
3-9, 5-7 over 2 years and UM is still landing Top 15 recruiting classes. Man, this perpetual red alert business about landing that one recruit or the sky is falling is getting mighty old (Rojo, NPerry, WCampbell, etc.)
I wish Mr. Thomas all the best wherever he goes. I do think he's very fortunate to have an opportunity to play on scholarship at such a great university like Michigan and still be so close to home and family.
The list is followed by this: "That group offers a rough outline for upcoming unofficial visits"
While the article (or readers) may interpret that as "welp, no Michigan, that sucks..." I don't know that it's shut. He's looking at unofficial visits in this list and he's already been on campus to talk with RR in an unofficial visit, correct? It makes sense that we're not on this list then, doesn't it?
We know it's an uphill battle because of where he attends HS but until he comes out with his short five of official visits, I'm not sure RR and co. are done.
Granted, with all that said, it's not real reassuring that MSU is still on that list for an unofficial visit when I'm sure he's been there before also...
You are exceptionally optimistic.
...I think it's part of the reason people like me. That said, I'm more worried about this year's LB corp than the recruiting trail at this point.
Yep, it's March and people are already having full blown panic attacks about recruits and their choices. Yes, losing out on Thomas hurts, but with a quality season I feel that we'll be okay and land 2 great prospects. One kid isn't going to make or break our football program.
He wants to play alongside his best friend. He calls Norman his "big brother". He is also good friends with Will Gholston. The coaches aren't nearly doing as much recruiting on this kid nearly as much as these guys are. He was sitting with them at the MSU vs OSU basketball game a few weeks back.
Plus, there is also talk of MSU switching to a 3-4 defense. Potential LB core will be: Gholston, Thomas, Bullough, and Norman. That has potential to be scary good.
For Thomas, it'll be like playing backyard football all over again with his buddies!
I had heard that 3-4 rumor before, what is the reasoning behind it? Is it personnel, or a new coach, or was Dantonio planning on doing this when he was hired and just now has what he needs?
Probably a combination. I think the coaches have been wanting to run it for a while but didn't have the proper personnel.
Did dantonio run it before at UC? I know Kelly did when he got there and will be doing the same at ND. Basically wondering if the switch is at Dantonio's direction or by the request of his DC.
Here is an idea.. If you two want to talk about MSU then go onto a damn MSU message board. No one on this board gives a shit what kind of defense state is going to run or if it "will be like playing backyard football with his buddies". K thanks.
I'm guessing I'm not the only one here who's interested in knowing things about our opponents. I don't want to know what Kirk Cousins' favorite breakfast cereal is, but whether they run a 4-3 or a 3-4 is somewhat relevant to their recruiting and how Michigan will have to play against them.
Speak for yourself, asshole.
The funny part about all that is that A LOT of people (programs, recruiting services, etc.) have speculated that he may eventually be moved to DE. He simply may outgrow MLB.
And they've even talked about MSU doing it. Openly.
Of course, we probably were honest and said it to his face. Oops.
He's sending a clear message when he omits the in-state powerhouse program from his top 10. The omission of U-M from the list is the white elephant in that article. A year before signing day, an unbiased recruit would definitely keep the in-state power at least in the top 10. Kids do this in states with much lower profile in-state programs. Thomas is making it clear that he has a problem with U-M.
It doesn't sound good.
that he decided to come here last weekend. WE SUCK!
Honestly he's already been here he knows what we have to offer he won't take another UN-official here as he will with those other 10 schools. We'll see what happens when he starts talking about OFFICIAL visits.
Didn't Carson Butler go to Renaissance? Were the coaches the same?
Yes it is the same coach, and you can see here what he thinks about RR at the very end of the video. Anyone remotely familiar with the situations of Butler (couldn't stay out of trouble despite multiple chances from both Carr and Rodriguez) and Criswell (not very good at football, hated Rodriguez so much he stuck around as a grad assistant) knows this is just a guy who bought into all the anti-RR hype from the start and is looking for reasons to justify it. Of course, RichRod hasn't done anything these past two seasons to force him to reconsider, and I suspect a few more wins (especially over MSU) will change things.
It seems to me that with in state recruits you are not trying to recruit them as much as you are reaffirming their already preconceived notions. I would say it would be rare that in state kid who doesnt at least have you in his top 3 would ever be swayed into coming to UM. RR has his work cut out for him with the 2011 class. How do you recruit kids to play for you when you dont know if you will be there to coach them?
why I got negged for my post earlier about Thomas playing in the 3-4 at MSU. It's a valid point.
The thing with in-state recruiting is that kids want to see stability in a program. I'm sure the negs will fly after an outsider says this but right now, MSU is a more stable program than UM is. We're not undergoing a massive system change on both sides of the ball, along with a change in atheltic directors + mild backlash from alumni who are unhappy. When 17 and 18 year olds see stuff like that, it can spook them a little bit.
They don't see tradition. It's more of a "what have you done for me lately" mentality.
Yes and lately you have had players thrown off of your team and you went 6-7 last year. Dont pat yourself on the back to hard sparty. We are rebuilding we will be back soon enough so enjoy your time at the top or I mean middle of the pack.
The combination of your name and the fact that you're stating the obvious probably isn't winning you any points.
Also, your mention of Carson Butler was dumb.
Yeah, not a wise move considering the facts and him obviously not knowing the reasons behind things.
"There are some posts in this thread where one could only conclude you forgot to put the feminin napkin on sticky side down."
I am glad to say that I have no idea what this means.
I don't get this comment either. I put my napkins on with a staple gun.
Not very impressive salesmanship by GERG.
GERG should have lied to the kid and told him what he wanted to hear? He told him that they saw him as a Mike that could grow into a DE. Would you rather have him come here, be pissed that GERG lied to him about being a Mike all the way, then transfer out and start another pissing/shit flinging match? No thanks.
No need to lie, but also no need to speculate about something a player does not want to hear. He may never "grow into a DE."
because i thought thats what GERG meant when he said "COULD grow into a DE"... could doesn't mean you are... but odds are the kid is going to put some more weight on while he is in college... scout has him listed at 230lbs right now which is about the same as what craig roh weighed when he got to michigan... if you read toms diary you'll see that roh now weighs 255 so, in less then a year roh has already put on 25lbs... so unless thomas decides not work out at all while hes in college his aspirations to stay at MLB aren't looking that good...
He's already 6'4 and 235. Players usually add 15 or so pounds between senior year and their first year in college. So now were talking about a 250ish guy. If he gets bigger, theres a good chance he'll have a better chance at being successful as a DE than a LB.
BTW, LT was at the MSU basketball game tonight, decked out in Spartan gear and hanging out with Chris Norman and Mylan Hicks.
I hope he's at the game Sunday all decked out in Spartan gear while DeShawn and Manny rip that Big Ten Championship right out of Izzo's hands!
Was chanting his name. Apparently his parents were there and were all smiles. It's amazing the role that other sports can play in football recruiting. Isn't the UCONN game what sealed the deal for Dorsey to UM?
That's why I said fuck him, we all know he is going to MSUck or out of state anyways. Rivals needs to take off the article they have had up for 3 days now, and move on, he will be another Gholston.
Wow...this is SOOOOOOOOOO much different than your other post in this thread.
And yet just as stupid and immature.
This is a complex situation. It's really no different than politics in Washington, politics in the office, or relationships that sway one way or another in all parts of life.
Dantonio is dedicated down to his last bone to own the state of Michigan in recruiting. He is an Ohio man who comes from the Tressel regime. He's attempting to do to the state of Michigan what Tressel did to the state of Ohio when he got to OSU. He wants to build a fence around the state and have all the top Michigan guys go to MSU.
Basically I think Dantonio manipulated a lot of these in-state coaches into believing something that's not true. I think the best thing RR can do is prove all this "MSU has great relationship with in-state kids" wrong. First he's got to turn it around this year. After that go to these top in-state kids and show the same passion about wanting the top in-state kids.
But not true this year (regarding Dantonio all about recruiting Michigan).
There are bout 5-6 guys offered from Michigan. These are the top guys that a lot of schools are going after (Arnett, Thomas, Hayes, etc). After that, most of the offer list is Ohio kids. In the past 2-3 years though, the majority of the commits are from MI.
MSU is not the best program in the state. It works for Tressel because his best in-state competition is what? Cincy? Miami? Toledo?
The best MSU can hope for is to build a fence around a good school in Michigan, which they have. However, this school isn't going to produce top-level talent every year. I'd rather not tie my recruiting fortunes to a school or even a single state.
Think like an investor - diversification is key.
...MSU's doing a fairly good job of recruiting in-state. And if they can achieve some success on the field, they might be able to expand their "fence."
It's not necessarily feasible to "diversify" before you've solidified at least one area.
See Magnus, now we have the discussion of how Dantonio is "owning" the state.
As much as you try, you're not going to make me feel guilty about posting an article about an in-state, 5-star linebacker.
my point - MSU will never "solidify" Michigan, not as long as we exist. They will always be in competition for the top players in Michigan and mostly lose out to UM.
Also, locking down your home state has absolutely nothing to do with diversification. Florida kids don't care how many Michigan kids we get. You simply need a national brand-something MSU football does not have, and will not have, until they get less obsessed with the (mostly talent deficient) state of Michigan.
They need a recruiter that can look beyond its own borders if they ever want to be a good (not just decent) team.
Yes, but I think they'll be pretty happy if they continue to recruit as well as they have in the past year or two. If they continue to get 4-stars or 5-stars like Bullough, Norman, Gholston, Thomas, etc., then it doesn't really matter. When I say "solidify," I don't mean win every battle - I mean get solid recruits every year, rather than taking the scraps. They've been doing that recently.
If those guys breed success, THEN they can start to work outward.
Well hopefully we can get things turned around with him, he would be a good pick up for us.
I hear he has primitive instincts.