Michigan out of running for Cassius Winston

Submitted by ypsituckyboy on

Per his Twitter, he's down to Pitt, Stanford, and MSU. Looks like he tried to push back his timeline a bit and was told we couldn't wait that long since we'd lose out on back-up options if he didn't end up at UM.

TeJon Lucas, come on down.

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alum96

September 9th, 2015 at 9:58 AM ^

I dont buy it.

In 2014 we were told not to expect immediate benefits from our run because bball recrtuiting starts at a young age and it would take 2-3 years so it would be the 2015s and 2016s who we'd nab. Now you are saying the 2015s and 2016s completely forgot the run.

So which is it?  You can't count on early benefits to recruiting because bball is a longer cycle and you cant count on long term benefits because kids forget?

Yet somehow Maryland is able to recruit better?

Something is amiss in recruiting.  John is a great bball coach but he needs 1 of his assistants to be a Thad Matta type.  Because we are simply not recruiting like a top 15 progra and there is only so much hocus pocus you can do when your top rivals are pulling in top 10 classes.

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The Mad Hatter

September 9th, 2015 at 10:27 AM ^

I was just speaking in regards to this years' class specifically in saying that the lack of success last season may have some players questioning Beilein as a coach and/or Michigan's chances at a NC going forward.

Something is definitely amiss in basketball recruiting, and I have no idea what it is.  We should probably hire an ace recruiter as an assistant and pay him handsomely.

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mGrowOld

September 9th, 2015 at 9:13 AM ^

Perhaps because what we are "selling" is simply an education, an opportunity to play under a fantastic coach and a pipeline to the NBA if they're any good.

In return for that we expect them to "play school"; attend classes,  take their own tests and write their own papers when asked.

I have heard that other schools dont have such draconian demainds on their players and have a special benefits package we have so far been unwilling to offer.

At least since Ed Martin passed away that is.  Back in the day we could go toe-to-toe with other schools on the aforementioned benefits.

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Cranky Dave

September 9th, 2015 at 9:28 AM ^

Recruiting closely so this question will sound ignorant. is there a huge difference in the "benefits" offered to basketball players over football? If so is it largely due to the smaller number of players? from a distance it seems like the shoe companies and AAU coaches have a lot of influence-do those guys get "benefits" from schools too?

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BornSinner

September 9th, 2015 at 9:50 AM ^

mGrowOld, usually you post solid material, but this is a load of bullshit. 

 

You're telling me Michigan is the only school that plays by the rules but Stanford doesn't? 

Stanford does everything we do except better when it comes to playing school, so no this is purely on Beilein and his staff. 

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Jimmyisgod

September 9th, 2015 at 8:53 AM ^

Weird for him to single us out like that for elimination.  Why not say you're down to 3 schools and list them?  Either UM told him they are full, maybe a silent commit, or something went wrong with his recruitment.

I've always thought he was a heavy MSU lean, not sure what happened here.

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Moisturize

September 9th, 2015 at 10:17 AM ^

IMO.  The notion that Michigan was ever a decided leader.  I'll say this again, but the coverage for Michigan Basketball recruiting is absolutely abysmal.  Webb, Balas, dot man...UM insiders just have an absolutely brutal track record with respect to this sport...I mean the list just goes on and on.  At some point Michigan fans need to alter their expectations with respect to these sources.

Now that's not to say that Michigan was running fourth for Winston, because by all accounts they were in his top 2 right up through the start of this week.  But I think there was pretty good evidence (anecdotal and otherwise) that Michigan trailed MSU by a small - but not inconsiderable - margin.  And I think that's been the case for quite some time, regardless of what the above insiders would have had you believe.

 

Now on to the larger point about Michigan recruiting...I guess it depends on your level of expectation.  Frankly, I think Michigan has recruited similar to their status in the college hoops landscape.  That said, if you're looking for more (obviously just forget about UK's tier, but let's hypothesize a rise to or near the OSU/MSU level), I'm just not sure that's a realistic endeavor under the current staff (a staff that I'd submit is very good in a couple key areas, and overall).  Here's the kicker and the apparent elephant in this "room"... Beilein is kind of a weird guy.  Not necessarily socially awkward per se, but certainly socially unique.  I don't think there's any question (at least from me) that he doesn't necessarily excel at connecting to recruits on a more visceral/gut level.  None of which is to say that one can't enjoy program success (as Beilein has), or even the occasional high level recruiting success (as Beilein has), it just makes this one aspect of program building that much more difficult.

Joined: 05/12/2012

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DrMantisToboggan

September 9th, 2015 at 4:47 PM ^

Football has always been my sport, but I love college basketball and obviously M basketball because that's our dawgs. So see if you can shed some light on something I've always wondered: is basketball recruiting harder to predict/generally weirder? It seems each individual recruiting process for BBall has the same factors that go into a football recruiting process, and then many more that aren't a factor, or a factor to a lesser extent, in football. Maybe I just don't know the sport as well, but basketball recruiting seems a lot more chaotic than football in my eyes.

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Moisturize

September 9th, 2015 at 5:38 PM ^

There are more capricious or arbitrary facets to Basketball recruiting, I think the fact that there are demonstrably fewer total recruitments makes it sometimes seem like that.

I also agree with a the perspective of a couple prominent Basketball recruiting analysts: Basketball recruitng, by and large, is a pretty clean endeavor.  Of the top 150-or-so recruits in a given year, probably 80+% are clean...Of the top 20 recruits, that number probably shrinks to 20-30%.  But again, from a sheer numbers perspective (think of it this way, for the P5 every year you're talking about 1500ish recruitments in football compared to what, somewhere in the 220-240 on the hardwood), it just stands out more when things seemingly go sideways.

Back on the topic of Michigan Hoops recruiting sources, and while I won't throw any parties directly under the bus (that's went poorly in the past regardless of how correct or damning the evidence was), it wouldn't be hard to figure this one out...One Michigan source, after hearing that one of the supporting factors for Michigan's cause in the Winston recruitment, was that he'd only have to sit behind Walton for a year, actually presented the story to his readership as, "Winston was excited about playing with Walton for a year."... C'mon man.

 

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amaizenblue402

September 9th, 2015 at 9:06 AM ^

I just don't understand our basketball recruiting.  How can we not recruit after going to the NCG and then to the elite 8?

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amaizenblue402

September 9th, 2015 at 9:26 AM ^

I think it's clear that Beilein is great at getting the most out of a player and developing them.  Look at what he has done recently and the players that he's developed and sent into the NBA.  We have the coaching, we have recent success, we have the facilities and next year, we'll have jumpman.

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Elmer

September 9th, 2015 at 9:12 AM ^

I thought U-D Jesuit was for the smart kids?  Izzo's development of point guards has been been nothing special, unless you reach all the way back to Mateen.

If I was a highly rated PG I would jump at the chance to play for Beilein and staff, seeing what they've done with so many players.

 

 

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ak47

September 9th, 2015 at 9:32 AM ^

Its been 2 players.  I love Beilein but he has done great work with 2 pg's lets not oversell it.  Trey Burke is a great story but there was another pg in that class who just wiped out.  Walton is great but hasn't had a big enough year to point to for recruiting wins.

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BigBlue02

September 9th, 2015 at 11:44 AM ^

I guess if you don't count Darius Morris and MAAR playing well above their rankings with Morris leaving for the NBA after his sophomore year then your point is awesome. Your point is also valid if Spike hadn't played well above his ranking and we ignore our first tournament run with two walk-ons playing extremely well splitting time at the point. But since we do count all of that as development of PGs, your point is shit

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Avon Barksdale

September 9th, 2015 at 9:16 AM ^

I guess it's a good thing that we will only have four starters back in 2016-17 from a team that is going to at least the Sweet 16 this season. I'm really not freaking out because 2016 shapes up like this:

Walton (SR), MAAR, Dakich (SR)

MAAR (JR), Duncan R. (RS JR),

Dawkins (JR), Chatman (JR)

Irvin (SR), Wilson (RS SO), Donnal (RS JR)

Doyle (JR), Wagner (SO)

That is A LOT of John Beilein experience returning. I think we need to relish having guys that stick around and not get used to the Trey Burke's, Nik Stauskas', and Mitch McGary's of the world.

Joined: 04/27/2013

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Avon Barksdale

September 9th, 2015 at 10:33 AM ^

But the only position that is currently an issue in 2017-18 is PG. If it becomes a huge issue, MAAR would be able to handle it. Beilein will find a serviceable contributor that can split time with MAAR and then take over the following year.

I'm disappointed with this class as well right now, but I don't think it's time to hit the panic button when we have eight scholarship guys (MAAR, Dawkins, Chatman, Wilson, Doyle, Donnal, Robinson (transfer), and Wagner that will still be playing for the University in Michigan in March 2018.

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93Grad

September 9th, 2015 at 9:37 AM ^

We'll then I guess we should get used to never making another final four under JB because those don't happen without the Burkes, Stauskas and Mcgarys of the world. I also did not realize we had been guaranteed a sweet sixteen birth this year. That is sweet!



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