I do not like this. It's shameful.
landing spot. will be interesting to see how he does.
I do not like this. It's shameful.
An increasing lack of interest in ticket purchasing is not unique to Michigan and is not a good trend.
This was anticipated and desired. The AD sells tickets at a severe discount to students (even if it was a 30% increase in price), so being able to sell these 2,000 tickets to non-students is welcomed.
It is only welcomed financially, but I don't think this bodes well for the future.
When I was an undergrad, Saturday afternoons and football were special. This lack of interest in going to games at a universityl where football is life I find to be terribly disconcerting.
I don't think it is lack of interest, but more likely a lack of funds. People are racking up massive debts to go to college, and spending money on tickets is probably moving down the priority list for a lot of people.
Combine that with a better at home TV experience that does not require you to wait in line for GA seating and you get less student ticket sales.
It is partially economic, but I also think there are other factors at play. Technology plays a role as one cannot deny the HD surround sound experience applies to the student body as well as the general public. Also, I think that the overtly big business corporate nature of college football has created an emotional disconnect between the team and the student body.
Not sure why you desired this, but I think it is a bad trend for both the AD and the school's fans. The extra money you welcome now is going to be paid for in the long run, because the students you are anxious to keep out now are not going to be the non-students paying the non-discounted prices in the future. You are being shrtsighted if you think you can make enough money off the extra tickets over the next four years to overcome the loss of the dedicated fans over the next four decades.
I think the AD understands this fact, which is why I think they probably don't share in your desire to see reduced student ticket sales. It will be interesting to see how they respond, though. There seems to be a certain level of disdain for today's students and their failure to adhere to Michigan's longstanding traditions about a strong student section, but I think they need to get over that and figure out what the effective carrots are, since the stick is clearly not working.
But not every student that has student tickets becomes a truly dedicated lifelong fan. Odds are that those that dropped at this point either did so for financial reasons and will be a huge fan any ways, or they were not going to turn into that fan anyways. Michigans fan base has a large, if not a slim majority, of dedicated fans that never went to Michigan and never had student tickets and are still just as dedicated. Point being, the AD may not be as worried as you think.
Still would rather see them make it easier for students to go. Students make everyone's game day experience better.
Its exactly what Brandon wants. Why else would they keep raising student tucker prices every year and install this mess of a GA policy?
Ticket, dang phone autocorrect.
Well, to be fair, they DO raise the student tucker prices pretty much every year, as well!
It's not what Brandon wants. Your reasoning is faulty: they raise student ticket prices every year for the same reason they rise all other ticket prices every year: because they think that they can still sell out at the higher price, and they want to maximize revenue. The GA policy was in response to students failing to uphold their end of the implicit contract, and is designed to encourage students to attend games on time by rewarding the earlier arrivals with better seats. It may have the side effect of reducing student ticket sales, but that's not the goal. Had the AD simply wanted to reduce student ticket sales, they could have simply reduced the number of tickets available to students.
Why should student ticket prices remain the same? It's not like Michigan is unique. You think Ohio's ticket prices and student ticket prices haven't gone up? Bama?
It's just whining for the same of whining.
The cost of almost everything goes up...I'm pretty sure if you're smart enough to get into the University of Michigan, you understand this concept.
I think it's fair to ask "why" at this point. The AD is well in the black at the current prices, the employees are lavishly compensated, and they've got so much dough they're dumping tons of money into obscure new sports programs just for the hell of it (sorry lacrosse, you're cool and all but no one watches you and realistically nobody who's not already pretty well off gets to play you).
What does more money do? Further gild the already lavish facilities so "student athletes" can live, work, and study in luxury even more removed from what the average student (who's paying for all this through ticket sales now and in the future) gets to experience? Let the coaches earn even more compared to what any other state employee gets?
If UofM football were a pro sports team, then no, they wouldn't need any excuse to maximize revenue. But the AD is nominally nonprofit and is supposed to have some sort of mission other than "make more money". So "why" is a valid question when the AD says "we must maximize revenue!"
2001 to 2005 was pretty weak, seemed like students picked up when rr was here.
Huh? The RichRod years were when the late arrivals and no-shows became legion.
Seems like a short-term financial gain that has the potential to be a bad thing over the long-term, though. I'm betting students who have season tickets are much more likely to purchase season tickets as alumni.
I hope that was for the Notre Dame or Ohio State game. You can buy better tickets on StubHub for a lot less.
It was both Notre Dame and Ohio, and I needed the tickets for friends who were coming to the game. I think I will sit above the students for the game against ND...should be fun, and it's been a long time since graduation.
That might be a good deal then. Under the Lights should have plenty of interest. The only concern about OSU is that we should be playing them for the right to wear blue the next week in the Big 10 Title Game against OSU.
I am a student who was unable to afford student tickets when they were on sale at the end of the school year because I am paying for college on my own. Since I saved up some money working this summer, I emailed the ticket office last week because I saw something about a student ticket waitlist on the website. I was SHOCKED when they emailed me right back that I could still order tickets . I don't get why student interest is diminishing, im just glad I was able to get tickets for this fall
It's rather ironic that they expanded the student section before the 2011 season. Maybe they should just go back to what it was before.
It disgusts me to see all those empty seats when I go to games now, while the rest of the stadium is filled to capacity. I do anything I can to avoid looking in that section.
Congrats on being able to get tickets. But I agree with you that the fact that you were able to get those tickets at all speaks volumes.
you push students by raising prices and switching to general admission, they respond with apathy.
And if you do neither, they respond with apathy as well.
As I said above, I think the AD needs to find the effective carrot that will get at least the only-marginally-apathetic students to the games on time.
Good. Kids these days are the worst.
They (or their parents) buy the tickets extremely cheap and then dont bother showing up. Thus preventing actual fans from attending not to mention it looks horrible to have a huge section empty
While students get discounted price the rest of the fan base gets gouged. Now, I have no problem with discounted tickets. Students should get that. But bitching about GA seating and a rise in prices when everyone else who have families and much larger bills than students, are getting slammed is a tab bit self-absorbed.
Do you know what students have?
Mommy and daddy.
My comment was meant to be as outlandish of a comment as you saying the parents all have salaries. Doesn't look like very many people got the comparison/joke.
Anyways, despite my parents both being doctors with more than adequate means to pamper me throughout my college years, my parents still made me pay for part of my tuition and only gave me $80 a month for food/entertainment, with everything else left for me to figure out myself. So I most certainly do not know anything about "mommy and daddy" covering my frivalous college expenses.
most kids though are paying some percentage of their way to school meaning football tickets are probably going to be a part of their burden. With tuition going up, it's easy to see how tickets become unaffordable for some students
Yep, my parents are paying for a whole $0 of my college, but that's cool, just keep pushing the thought that all students are sitting on wads of their parents' cash. Actually, the majority of my friends are paying their own way through school, getting screwed by the Ann Arbor housing market, and trying to rub our leftover pennies together to afford tickets.
Sure there are students from wealth, but its not as many as people here like to think.
Ditto. The AA housing market and student loan burden is a serious issue. One can only hope these highrises eventually saturate the market and cause prices to drop, but I was hoping that 4 years ago and its yet to happen.
I pay $900 in rent and $850 in student loans per month after finishing grad school a few years ago. I was lucky enough to always be able to swing tickets, but I had to work 20-30+ hours a week through undergrad and into much of grad school just to be lucky enough to only be throwing down 850 in loans a month.
My dad helped with a couple of summer classes my first year, but that's it. Less than 5k of the nearly 100k spent on my education.
Where were you staying in Ann Arbor for that much money? I paid about 450-500 per month since I moved into a house with my friends. You should be able to do it for much less unless it's a one bedroom or studio apartment.
I am currently paying $900 for a 1-bedroom apartment that is about 1.5 miles from downtown.
During school I paid anywhere between $350 and $600 sharing houses and apartments. But, for a single young professional, it's almost impossible to live cheaply in Ann Arbor.
I'm not as ignorant as you think, and I'm sure shit not as big of an asshole as you certainly seem to be. My parents were of means, but to teach me to have to depend on myself, they made me pay for half of my own tuition, all of my rent and all of my textbooks. They were however nice enought to give me $80 a month for food, which barely afforded me more than a steady diet of Ramen. Wasn't as tough as you had, but I sure as shit know what it's like to not have the luxury of sitting back and just enjoying my college years.
I could see how my comment was obvisiously taken the wrong way and that's my bad, but while everyone spoke out about my comment like a rationale adult, you pounce on me like an immature prick with no filter hiding behind the safety of your keyboard. It seems like once a month you misinterpret a comment of mine and aggressively attack me like the biggest douchebag on here. It always ends with you telling me no one wants me here, yet here I am, still been her longer than you, and still have a karma of 2, so it looks like pretty much everyone except for you seems to be fine with me staying here. I'd appreciate if you'd learn to kindly refrain from responding to any of my posts ever again, because 9/10 times, you fuck it up.
Do you know what students have?
Mommy and daddy.
As someone who has been basically self-funded through college I'll have to respectfully disagree with your point of view. The students who come from wealthy families will continue to buy them even if they're crappy fans. But the students who go there and want to participate in the student football experience keep getting priced out because they don't have the means. This just creates a culture of have and have-nots that has been increasing in Michigan the last 6 years that I have been there. And I understand that college football is becoming more and more like a business, but if we're trying to not create this type of culture in higher education then we really need to not do things like this...else it's just hypocritical of the institution.
A truly dedicated student would sell his organs to make that money. Let's replace all the loud student fans that cheer enthusastically with old, fat rich people. That way, our games can be completely silent and we can hear everything Hoke says! Or better yet, we can hear all the OSU fans cheering instead.
Like it is for any non-"Big game" that doesn't have absolutely perfect weather because only half of the allotted tickets show up?
If we had a student section that showed up on time to EVERY game and cheered their asses off, this would not be happening. The problem is, we don't. Which is fine, in today's world...most schools don't.
However, if that's the case...then decisions have to be made to do something about it.
Get ready for it. Down in front.
They might be right behind the handicap seats, thus negating the conflict.
People in those seats will have to accept standing otherwise. Simple as that.
it's not terribly surprising to see demand dropping as a lot of people have huge debtloads as it is. I knew a few people who were pretty much paying their way who couldn't really afford to fork out $200 to see 2 or 3 good home games.
And if that's the case, I'm glad the AD went and made those tickets available. People will buy them and hopefully it won't look so empty now
Going to MIchigan games is fun - however there are many downsides. You cannot bring in water anymore. Buying some or going up the aisle is a pain in the rear. After four hours you are nearly dehydrated. Your allocated space is 12x12 inches. The TV timeouts are now unbearable. I can't tell you how many times we've been at a game and said not another TV timeout. When I'm at home I can get stuff done during these breaks. Then you have the beer belly whiners around you. These guys know what play should be called every down. They were especially bad during the RR years.
I do not see demand returning with prices being what they are and such strict regulations at the stadium. The younger generation is not as interested as their predecessors. DB needs to be careful not to kill the golden goose. Once you lose fans it's hard to get them back. Just ask the Detroit Pistons. I would consider going to UM games again if it were like the olden days with pony kegs and marshmellows. But those days are long gone.
that just wanted to throw a few marshmallows. I must admit, it does sound like you are an expert on whining.
Shout me down and enjoy the empty sections...I'm giving the facts why people aren't coming.
I see a lot of people regularly upset that the AD wants to generate more revenue. If you think it's bad now, wait and see what happens if O'Bannon wins. It will be a full turn to pro sports at the college level.
I can't agree with this "lack of money" argument. I worked 40+ hours a week during undergrad and was only able to attend games freshman year because of this. I regret working that much and missing games and accompanying activities. And overall, it doesn't really do much to help the debt load. It is true every bit of savings will help cut it down, but there are many other ways to do it, and still get tickets.
My tickets were 2005 and didn't get tickets any other years. My debt is still rather large, even with working. So I guess I feel like I could have enjoyed more, attended games etc. and my debt would be only slightly higher. I never bought a laptop for college, instead used a desktop and saved money there. (Just an example) never had an issue doing work. I guess my thought is, to sacrifice 8 Saturdays a year and only pay $200 is not really a lot sacrificed. Work more in the winter, summer, etc. and get some of that expense recouped.
It's your birthday gift from your parents or family combined or Xmas or whatever. The VAST majority of students (80%+) come from households where it's entirely plausible.
I always like to hear someone else's insight, but many of your complaints are not new and don't explain the recent trend. If buying a bottle of water at gouge prices keeps you away, then you don't want to be there that bad.
The other complaints you have are longstanding and part of the experience. Has been and always will be.
Same thing happened to me and I agree that this probably has a lot to do with the issue now.
OOPS - wrong place. My response was about getting moved when the student section was expanded some time ago.
Maize - I want to be able to bring my "own" water in. Yes, it bothers me enough not to come to a game. Every game as a student I brought plenty of water to cheer my butt off.
I love going to the game, cheering for the team, and being part of the crowd. Love watching plays develop and seeing what you can't see on TV. Buying water is annoying, i agree, but is not a deal -breaker for me.
To be honest, i don't drink or eat anything once i enter the stadium typically.
I never drink or eat anything once I enter the stadium. Once I am in my seat I don't leave. So yeah I don't have complaints about food or beverage prices since I never by either. Season tickets since 1995 but the PSD and price increase is getting out of control. Not sure how much longer I will keep them.
How much was the student section expanded a few years ago. I had my season tickets moved from 33 to 11 to accomodate more students. This trend may be like water levels have been in the lake, and the student numbers are just returning to typical levels.
Another thought echoed here on the board: watching games at home/elsewhere have improved. NFL, the top dog of sports, is struggling to have their stadiums filled in many cities. I'm sure the reason for that is multifactorial.....costs, economy, busier lives, etc.
As our team improves in the upcoming years, demand by people, students or fans, will increase.
The last Michigan-Ohio State game I attended, tickets were something like $25. Now, the athletic department has reduced itself to the scalper model for pricing individual game tickets, and charges up to $250 for some games. I am still trying to figure out how the "seat donation" thing works, but since I don't live there, it doesn't really matter to me.
As many here have noticed, it is the classic business model, and DB has the right to use it if he wants: keep raising the ticket prices as high as the public will pay. I am beginning to wonder, though, if DB has finally raised prices high enough that he is seeing reduced interest.
I guess we'll find out after next year's inevitable price hike.
to making the hard decision of giving up my tickets. They've been in my family for 40 years now, but its harder and harder to justify the expense of the game tickets themselves along with the days travel expenses.
I consider myself an average income, average fan and I'm close to being priced out.
Just selling them amongst friends. You should be able to schedule out who takes what tix and maximize your legacy while doing a solid for them
win a lot and the students will buy tickets. period.
It's true in every single sports league, but of course there's apparently some typical unbearable mgosoldier marking every mention of this as trolling.
Has cell phone coverage improved at Michigan Stadium? I am going way out on you guys, but we (wireless industry) are hearing that attendance at sports venues (recurring events) is being impacted by inability of attendees to use their wireless devices, and so some people would rather stay home so they can FB or Tweet all day (or even make phone calls).
Any information about last season's experience or any upgrades to the networks in AA (Michigan Stadium, in particular)?
Nope. Still sucks. How can you win a text contest in the 3rd quarter when you haven't had cell service since you walked through the turnstile?
Still awful. Can't text friends taunting them that I am at the game because it drains my battery.
But I'm not sure I want people in the stadium who would rather be Facebooking than be at the game. I mean, we did survive 120 years without it at Michigan Stadium.
This doesn't surprise me at all. The tickets are more and more expensive now for students and they also are general admission which I know upset a lot of students.
For all the grief DB gets, he is doing what we all want.
We want the best team...big ten champs, national champs, and not just in football.
Well, we want the best recruits to do that. Those recruits want the best facilities and best coaches. Those things cost money, and lots of it. And we have to keep up with the Jones' (Alabama, OSU, etc) of college sports to keep our coaches and atract those recruits.
He can keep ticket prices low, cancel psd's, and let you bring your water in, but will all of you and the students still come when we become mediocre in sports?
Alabama and the SEC have raised the ante. Sad but true. Question is, are we game or do we sit out?
than Alabama, isn't it? Based on the figures I've seen it is. It's not all about money.
I had season tickets and survived 08 and 09. Season tickets are not on my radar screen. More single game tickets are just fine for random dudes like me who like to make a trip to AA every now and then.
I find it interesting that every time a student ticke policy is posted every student describes how much they hate the new general admission policy then when ticket sales decrease everyone blames Internet access and prices. Guys it's the ticket policy. I have by told by numerous people that they did not buy tickets specifically because of this policy. Students can't afford to spend 7 hrs of time every Saturday waiting in line with a bunch of drunks. I'm sorry but it's just not fair to place that on them. Brandon is reaping the results of this but it doesn't matter because hell make more money off the fan tickets so nobody will Care. Sure the stadium will be quiet because the fans barely make any noise but oh well.
No one really knows how the logstics are going to work, but it can't be good. When I walk to the stadium there are a ton of pre-game house parties. Will those students be waiting in line instead? Or will they decide that partying with their friends is more fun than waiting in line and then going to the game? We'll see...
Major point that people are missing in this discussion involved GA.
All the whining about having to stand in line for "decent" seats is now a little more moot. No matter what, you won't get stuck in the top 20 rows in 31-34 which should be considered the "worst" seats in the student seciton (other than rows 2-14).
But you also lost 2,000 students in the process. If the goal of general admission was to get the students there early and on time and to make a great home field environment, the first results have been completely negative. Not only have you scared students off from buying season tickets, but you've replaced them with regular fans who don't wear maize and sit on their hands all game. What a great success.
You're assuming the 2,000 that didn't buy tickets this year are hardcore fans that show up on time and wear maize and make noise.
That's a poor assumption. It's more likely that the people who show up late expecting to sit where they want said "fuck it" and didn't purchase the tickets. Which, fine, those are the people that are the problem anyway.
There's many reasons for that 2,000 decrease in tickets, but I don't see it as a terrible thing. I see it as 2,000 that obviously weren't that invested in the program and thus, more likely were people to come late, leave early, or skip all together.
The only thing we know for sure is that those seats will be full, which is an improvement over last year. Bleachers neither stand, wear maize, nor get loud.
They don't have to be hardcore fans for my assumption. They just have to be included in the what? 99% of the students that wear maize and are loud when they attend games? I think it's a pretty safe assumption that even the students who aren't the best fans still wear maize and are loud when they do show up.
I also debate your assumption that filling these 2000 seats with fans/alumni is better than questionable student attendance. Those seats may be empty for some games, but I would bet you the majority of those 2000 seats would have been full for any big game on the schedule. Personally, that's fine for me. I don't care that much about cramming the very top of the student section for a noon game against Akron, but what I do care about is how loud and intimidating the crowd is against ND, MSU, and OSU. And even 1000 students would be louder than 2000 replacements (that make no noise and wear red for some unknown reason).
Yes, in a perfect world we all want every student to be at every game and be loud. You make two false assumptions though:
1. No, not every student makes noise. Not even during the big games.
2. Not every person that's not a student is quiet.
I would assume that some of the people buying these additional seats are likely to be recent alums and will be just as loud as an averge student. The fact that this small section is above students and next to students will also likely result in them being louder than your average 2000 non-students.
Which is all a round about way of saying, I think this isn't a big deal. It isn't perfect, but the athletic department seems to be taking smart actions in response to lower student demand.
Reading these comments, it's interesting that the students and alumni don't seem to realize that they're each other at different points in their life.
Yes, it's annoying that students are sometimes apathetic about attendance, but the solution isn't to eliminate their seating. Conversely, those old, rich people are the ones paying the bills right now. They're not as loud as the students, so that's why the students need to show up and support the team.
But the athletic department didn't eliminate student tickets. Students decided not to buy.
Otherwise, I agree with your point. As a recent alum that still sneaks over to the student section, I'm all about partying and drinking and etc. Just as I was when I was enrolled. And then, just as now, I hate the people that didn't show up on time, tried to kick me out of "their" seat in the second half and proceeded to spend the game texting.
I don't look at the GA as a way to punish good fans (it won't - they'll get fine seats), rather a way to discourage poor attendance.
If the GA policy has resulted in people who don't care to arrive at the game on time not buying tickets, then that's their choice and I think the student section is better off.
Agree completely. My point wasn't that the AD eliminated student tickets, it was a reaction to some of the comments suggesting the AD should eliminate more.
Gotchya. I agree again - lets not take it that far.
This is what confuses me though. How is waiting 9 hours for a football game not a punishment? Maybe you move up a couple rows in seating, but I think the vast majority would slide back a few rows not to spend hours waiting. I think there's no doubt that some people are overblowing the waiting time, but I would be willing to bet money that a major part of the student section will be in line for any big game within 2 hours of the official "line time" released by the athletic department. Plus, even if the waiting isn't as bad this year, it will get there within a few years without a doubt.
Waiting 9 hours? Come on. That's exaggeration to the extreme.
Let's say 4,000 students decide that they want to wait in line. That's a much higher percentage than I think is reasonable, but for the sake of argument we'll roll with it.
So, 4,000 students get in line prior to the gates being opened 90 minutes prior to kick. Those 4,000 students will comprise less than the first 30 or so rows.
Now, let's say over the next hour about 4,000 students walk in (without waiting in line, mind you). Those students will take the next 30 or so rows.
Basically, you're looking at row 60 and up if you don't want to wait in line nor more than 10 minutes before the pre-game show. Show up 20-30 minutes before pre-game and you get around row 40.
That's not punishment. That doesn't prevent you from tailgating. That doesn't prevent you from getting plastered.
If you're in a good section, row 40 or so is the best place to actually see the game anyway.
Front row is cool, but mostly for people who care more about getting on ESPN than actually watching the game.
by having to wait in line for hours to get good seats for the OSU game. That's certainly a punishment. If it's worth the benefits of GA, I can't say.
Why are we all assuming they actually sold fewer student tickets? My guess is that these seats are to account for the average 2000 a game no-shows they have. That always struck me as the real goal of GA. I bet the student section is "oversold" and these seats opened up because of that.
But no one here has brought up the fact that freshman enrollment is dropping. In 2011, 250 fewer freshman enrolled then the peak in 2010. Another 100 fewer than 2011 than 2012, and the 2013 class is not expected to be bigger than that of 2012. That's about 1,000 fewer students overall. And while this factor should not be considered the only one, the fact that M doesn't plan to admit 6500 freshmen per year going forward can't be ignored.
Except you're only giving a partial picture:
All in all, the University added 1,400 students in the last 2 years.
Did anyone sit in the seats behind the student section and want to comment on how they were? Did people stand like they do in the student section? Did it have any of the same atmosphere? Was it an enormous pain to get in because of the student crowds?
I have never watched a game anywhere other than the student section and am a little tempted by some of these tickets on the resale market due to the combo of student section proximity and price...
I sit next to the seats (across the aisle) in section 34 that were just given back to the public. I've had these season ticket seats for 11 years now and consider myself lucky that I did not lose my spot (which I love) to the AD temporarily expanding the student section.
Anyway, to answer walshjen, I've noticed that people who are now sitting in these seats are decent fans who cheer, stand and are decked out in M gear. It definitely has atmosphere. I get into my seats an hour early and so far have not had any issue getting into section 34. I imagine if you came later then yes, you would have a wait due to the GA students.
The biggest problem now is with students with section 34 GA tickets thinking it gives them the right to sit ANYWHERE in section 34. Yesterday we had a steady stream of students trying to sit in season ticket holder spots up at the top of section 34 and it created a lot of tension. Only one time did event staff escort 2 of them out. They really need an event staffer positioned at the top of the section or else this is going to happen all season.