"Michigan Man": What's the big deal?

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January 12th, 2011 at 9:59 AM
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Laser Wolf
Joined: 07/09/2008
MGoPoints: 1693
"Michigan Man": What's the big deal?

As background, I am lifelong Michigan fan that grew up in Ohio but did not actually go to the school, so I'm hoping this might provide me some insight into a concept that I never grasped the importance of.

What's the deal with demanding a Michigan man? I don't understand why a seemingly incredibly smart man like Dave Brandon would willfully limit his pool of resources in one of the biggest decisions of his professional life.

Now, like I said I didn't grow up in Michigan (only born), go to Michigan, play for Michigan, or anything like that so this might be my naivete. I just don't seem to think it's that important for a coaching candidate to be in this extremely exclusive club that doesn't seem to take kindly RR types that dare shake the tree a bit. Is the Michigan football program, at its core, that different from any other major program in the nation? Yes, we have the most wins, boatloads of historical benchmarks, Heismans, et al. But this seems to be an antiquated idea rooted in the Schembechler era, and I don't think "we've always done it that way" should be the reason to do anything.

College football is far too competitive to rely on tradition alone. Notre Dame has proven that. You have to adapt with the players and schemes and norms of the times, and I feel like we're stuck in the 80s and 90s. Do you really need to have intimate knowledge of the school before you take the job to succeed? Look at the BCS national champion coaches:

Gene Chizik: Prior Auburn DC for 3 years (does this make him an "Auburn Man")

Nick Saban: No prior connection to Alabama or LSU

Urban Meyer: No prior connection to Florida

Les Miles: No prior connection to LSU

Mack Brown: No prior connection to Texas

Pete Carroll: No prior connection to USC

Jim Tressel: Coached at OSU from 1983-85

Larry Coker: OC under Butch Davis before taking over

Bob Stoops: No prior connection to Oklahoma

Bobby Bowden: WR coach from 1963-65 before taking over in 1976

Phil Fulmer: OL coach from 1989-92 before taking over

 

I see a lot of coaches on that list that had no connection whatsoever to the program before winning a national championship. So what makes Michigan so much different than everyone else? It seems a little insular and incestuous to say "They just wouldn't get it." That's something Jeep owners do and it's annoying and ridicuous.

And yes, I'm fully aware I'll be negged to death. Please feel free to correct me here. I fully admit I could be naive.

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January 12th, 2011 at 10:02 AM | posted from iPhone (Score:1)
artds
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Joined: 09/04/2009
MGoPoints: 2789

Honestly? We just want the next guy to start coaching right away and not have to waste any time learning the words to "The Victors".

Every time an MGoBoard poster complains about a thread topic, God kills a baby panda.

January 12th, 2011 at 10:10 AM | Does it really take that long (Score:1)
Laser Wolf
Joined: 07/09/2008
MGoPoints: 1693

Does it really take that long to learn the words to "The Victors"? Couldn't you put in like a half hour of work and be done with it?

January 12th, 2011 at 10:49 AM | I think I learned it in about (Score:1)
mEEchigan04
Joined: 10/11/2010
MGoPoints: 55

I think I learned it in about 10 minutes during orientation :-)

January 12th, 2011 at 10:55 AM | posted from iPhone (Score:1)
artds
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I'm not positive but I think I was being sarcastic.

Every time an MGoBoard poster complains about a thread topic, God kills a baby panda.

January 12th, 2011 at 10:40 AM | I thought that was a dickish (Score:1)
Louie C
Joined: 11/16/2009
MGoPoints: 2007

I thought that was a dickish and snobbish quote from him. He's going to have to realize that sooner or later, there's going to be a time when someone from the "outside" will end up coaching the team. It's been repeated ad nauseum, but two of our greatest coaches were from the "outside". I'm a little tired of this attitude. Don't get me wrong, I support Hoke, but this isn't some fucking country club or secret society that only a certain type of person can belong to.

"It's the only place to get the inside story on Wolverine football, so blee bluhh tahh!" - Bo

January 12th, 2011 at 10:03 AM | Because every other person is (Score:1)
DGDestroys
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Joined: 01/05/2010
MGoPoints: 18168

Because every other person is a satan worshipping, angry, evil son of a bitch wanting nothing but to kill the program.

/s....kinda....I'm looking at you Pinkel

Twitter // Recruiting Work// Email

January 12th, 2011 at 10:05 AM | Steve fisher went to Illinois State (Score:1)
Hoke_Floats
Joined: 09/21/2010
MGoPoints: 2060

I think Bo meant somenone who wanted to be at Michigan

he was mad that frieder was leaving

I don't think he ever meant his words to be twisted in this way

January 12th, 2011 at 10:07 AM | That could be. Perhaps my (Score:1)
Laser Wolf
Joined: 07/09/2008
MGoPoints: 1693

That could be. Perhaps my assumption of what was meant by "Michigan Man" has been wrong through this whole process.

January 12th, 2011 at 10:11 AM | I think your assumption was right (Score:1)
Hoke_Floats
Joined: 09/21/2010
MGoPoints: 2060

people have used that term to suit their own desires

the full quote is

"a Michigan man will coach Michigan, not an Arizona State man."

as Frieder was going to ASU

fisher was a Michigan man b/c he was staying at UofM, Frieder is an ASU man b/c thats where he was going
 

IMO...rodriguez was a michigan man as he really did want to stay and do well, it just did not work out for him (and I did want to see a coaching change)

January 12th, 2011 at 10:15 AM | Yup.  Journalists with an (Score:1)
ESNY
Joined: 11/06/2008
MGoPoints: 673

Yup.  Journalists with an agenda repeated the incorrect assertion enough times that people started believing it.  Bo stated it when Frieder accepted a job at Arizona State but still wanted to coach Michigan bball in the tournment.  It had absolutely nothing to do with hiring coaches that had a connection to U of M.  Sadly, enough people in the MSM took it and ran with it that it became a foregone conclusion that we had to hire a "Michigan Man" which meant a former player/coach.

January 12th, 2011 at 10:18 AM | The irony of course being (Score:1)
skwasha
Joined: 10/09/2010
MGoPoints: 378

The irony of course being that Frieder is a UM alum while Fisher is not.

January 12th, 2011 at 10:39 AM | Yes! (Score:1)
profitgoblue
Joined: 09/01/2009
MGoPoints: 19415

It started as a simple sound byte and blew up into some huge concept that no one can define or identify.  Who is a "Michigan Man?"  What makes a "Michigan Man?"  Am I more of a "Michigan Man" than the OP simply because I am an alumnus as are many in my extended family?  Or is someone who always loved Michigan and wanted desperately to attend but couldn't for whatever reason really more of a "Michigan Man" than me? 

In my opinion, the concept is ridiculous and the phrase should simply die.  Its a title that can never really be attained, if only because everyone will always be missing some quality.  Hoke didn't play for Michigan but coached there.  Rodriguez didn't play for Michigan but coached there and wanted desperately to stay.  Is Hoke more of a "Michigan Man" than Rodriguez?  What about Miles and Harbaugh?  They both played there and coached there but do not want to be there.  Does that mean they are not "Michigan Men?"  As I think you can see, the concept is ridiculous and serves no purpose.

Disgruntled former moderator.  I got a lot of problems with you people!

January 12th, 2011 at 10:09 AM | The "Michigan Man" meme is (Score:1)
MGoLiteral
Joined: 06/19/2010
MGoPoints: 1490

The "Michigan Man" meme is blown out of proportion by the media

January 12th, 2011 at 10:24 AM | A Michigan Man (Score:1)
Dan TrueBlue
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Honestly, I think the term 'Michigan Man' has been severely warped by the media over the last few years.  Bo was a Michigan Man, even though he didn't have any link to the university.  It used to refer to a certain sense of values: of hard work and discipline, of being successful academically as well as on the field, of integrity and winning "the right way," of putting the team above yourself, and of generally representing yourself and your university well.  Although being a big fan of the program didn't hurt either.  

With the problems that haunted Rodriguez though -- the NCAA sanctions, academic violations, and players in trouble with the law -- people started using that together with the fact that he was from West Virginia to label him as "not a Michigan Man."  

When people who don't know otherwise hear that, they assume it simply means that he wasn't connected to the Michigan family.  Especially since both of the previous two coaches were.  It became such a meme in fact, that I think many of the fans and perhaps even some at the university itself have forgotten what it used to mean to be a Michigan Man.

When it comes down to it, Michigan has always held themselves to a higher standard of winning the right way.  And that's what's important about being a Michigan Man, not where you come from or who you know. 

January 12th, 2011 at 10:40 AM | Michigan Man (Score:1)
ga.michman
Joined: 10/17/2010
MGoPoints: 45

I grew up in Windsor, Ontario. I did not attend UofM. However, my every fall Saturday was filled with anticipation for my travels to AA for the next home game. I admired the essence of what, at least descriptively, defines a "Michigan Man". However its genesis, I feel the term Michigan Man helps define my fandom. I respect the program, the school, the tradition.I want to be a Michigan Man. I live in the hot bed of college football in the south, and despite the 24/7/52 Go Dawgs, Roll Tide and War Eagle, nothings rings more true than Go Blue! Does it really matter that I have no physical connection to the school? Surely, I am not the only one who feels this way?

January 12th, 2011 at 11:05 AM | Your physical connection to (Score:1)
Dan TrueBlue
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Your physical connection to the school doesn't matter at all, that's what I'm saying.  That's why so many Michigan fans never attended school there.  What matters is that you're a fan for the right reasons: that you believe in winning the right way, not just that blue is your favorite color or you like the stadium.  

But then, I'd add that I'm not sure I'm a Michigan Man either.  Simply because just being a fan isn't what determines it.  It's not something you are, so much as something you aspire to.  It's about how you live and what standards you hold yourself to, not just who you root for.  At least, that's how I feel about it.

January 12th, 2011 at 10:16 AM | Simple (Score:1)
CRex
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MGoPoints: 8727

Bo said it, people picked up on it and now follow it religiously.  What made Bo an amazing coach was a sometimes near maniacal focus on system.  The Team, The Team, The Team and such where people were taught the collective system trumps the individual.  Michigan Man has been enshrined into that system and it worked well from the 1960s until the mid 2000s.  Winningest team in football, most wins, a factory for NFL talents.  Lots of hiccups and poor results on offense near the end though.  

The deal is though that all the Bo players have been successful indoctrinated with a focus on the system trumping the individual and they saw it work on the field.  Carr and Moeller did the same and kept the system humming along aside from those OMG WTF moments on offense and of course The Horror.  

When RR arrived he attacked the system and of course people had a fit.  Imagine if say you're Woodson.  You have a Heisman, you played in the Super Bowl, you've won NFL honors and then this guy comes along and dismantles the system that produced you.  He then proceeds to put up two losing seasons.  It makes sense you're probably not going to like that guy.

At the end of the day the Bo system has never failed decisively* and it has the backing of our NFL veterans that have money and prestige so it remains important here (plus it appears people like Ross).  I agree that we do overly focus on Michigan Man, but I think it is the price we paid for the success under Bo/Moeller/Carr.  Our alums, our big donors they all believe the system trumps the individual.  Thus they seek to hire the person most qualified to be a Steward of the System not always the most qualified individual.  Right or wrong it is a fact of life.  You can post any data you want but people like Woodson or Howard will simply point out their entire successful career has been built on Bo's system.  Until it implodes it will be worshipped.  

*Lots of cracks like that long drought against tOSU but it never imploded 

January 12th, 2011 at 11:30 AM | *Cracks (Score:1)
lexus larry
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Joined: 01/22/2009
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Don't forget numerous losses to our highly respected, superior schematic advantaged ND, let alone, inferior talent at MSU, Wisconsin, Illinois, Minnesota, Purdue, et al.  Too many losses, too many close games to inferior teams.

It was one thing to be an 8-3 U-M beating a 10-0 OSU with equal talent (of course, being 8-3 with all that talent, and having lost to ND, MSU and/or Washington/Oregon, etc.), but beat OSU made all the hurt go away?  How about if the talent in maize and blue wasn't there?  That's where we've been 2007-2010...

Larry

I'm not a doctor, but I play one on TV

January 12th, 2011 at 10:23 AM | It probably shouldnt matter, (Score:1)
go16blue
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MGoPoints: 3422

It probably shouldnt matter, but your kidding yourself if you think it doesnt. Not that michigan men are inherently better coaches, but it is next to impossible to get any kind of support around here unless you are one. And it is very difficult to succeed as a coach without Any kind of support (fan, media, etc)

COYS and lets go Detroit FC!

January 12th, 2011 at 10:25 AM | To me (Score:1)
Wereverine
Joined: 10/14/2010
MGoPoints: 1254

It means a guy who is down for Michigan above all else. That means Michigan comes before some other cushy college job or the NFL. Additionally, and most importantly, it means someone who respects and cherishes the team and the University. As a third generation Michigan alum and lifer (my family has a combined 11 UM degrees and counts 3 employees) this term is near and dear to me. That does not mean that someone who did not attend school here is not a Michigan Man. My dad did not graduate high school but has been a ravenous fan since the 60's. It is about loyalty, honor and acting right.

January 12th, 2011 at 10:32 AM | Here here! (Score:1)
skwasha
Joined: 10/09/2010
MGoPoints: 378

Here here!

I also find it disheartening that the term, because it's been misused, has become less important or misunderstood.

When people say they want a Michigan Man at the helm, I agree wholeheartedly. The problem is that not everyone understands what that really means. I couldn't care less if you coached for tOSU (Bo did), if you are at Michigan and that's where you want to be, then you are a Michigan Man.

January 12th, 2011 at 11:03 AM | Harbaugh and Miles: Michigan Man? (Score:1)
indi_blue
Joined: 10/04/2010
MGoPoints: 98

"It means a guy who is down for Michigan above all else. That means Michigan comes before some other cushy college job or the NFL"

 

Does that mean Harbaugh and Miles are not Michgan Man?  They spurned Michigan for cushy job at NFL and other college

January 12th, 2011 at 10:26 AM | I agree with all the posters (Score:1)
skwasha
Joined: 10/09/2010
MGoPoints: 378

I agree with all the posters that have commented on the meme being distorted and misused by many. Esp. those in the MSM that have done so for their own purposes.

I would encourage everyone to read this piece, if they haven't already. Or for that matter any of Bo's books.

Clearly, being a Michigan Man has absolutely nothing to do with where you've come from or where you've been: It has everything to do with where your heart is.

January 12th, 2011 at 10:29 AM | Great responses, guys. (Score:1)
Laser Wolf
Joined: 07/09/2008
MGoPoints: 1693

Great responses, guys. Thanks. It appears my view of what the Michigan Man was and is had been a bit skewed by the definition proferred by the MSM. The ideas and values posetd above are things I absolutely ascribe to and are what makes me proud to be a Michigan fan.

Do you think you necessarily need an innate sense of the history and tradition and values espoused by Bo before taking the job? I know Pinkel was asked about being interviewed, but otherwise Brandon only actually interviewed guys that had played or coached here previously. Wouldn't someone like, say, Gary Patterson (not that he was available) assimilate and embrace the Michigan culture pretty quickly if he came in with the right attitude?

January 12th, 2011 at 10:55 AM | I don't think you have to (Score:1)
Dan TrueBlue
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I don't think you have to know every detail of the history and tradition, no.  I think you should have similar values as the ones espoused above.  But I get the sense that Brandon in his search felt too restricted by so many of the fanbase saying things like, "see, we went outside of the family and this is what we got."  

Even for those who don't buy into the "new" (awful) definition of Michigan Man, many now think that you have to get someone connected to Michigan in order to find someone who does espouse those values in this day and age.  You have to find someone who meets the new definition in order to find someone who meets the old.  I don't believe that, and I don't know that Brandon believes that per se, but I do think he believes he has to find someone who meets both, at least to try to unite the fanbase again.

January 12th, 2011 at 10:29 AM | The "Michigan Man" meme is (Score:1)
West Texas Blue
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The "Michigan Man" meme is bullshit. Look at Bama; they wasted more than a decade on coaches with ties to Alabama and they went nowhere. Finally they completely broke ranks and went and got the best coach available in Saban and now they became a top 5 team nationally and won a NC. I don't know why our AD is so obsessed with coaches who are so called "Michigan Men." Until we break this tendency to only want "Michigan Men" we could be stuck in a vicious cycle that ND has endured since 1995.

January 12th, 2011 at 10:35 AM | I would argue that there's (Score:1)
skwasha
Joined: 10/09/2010
MGoPoints: 378

I would argue that there's nothing wrong with wanting a Michigan Man. In fact I do think it's a requirement. The problem is your interpretation of what a Michigan Man is. See above for definitions. But essentially it has nothing (or should have nothing) to do with previous ties to the program.

January 12th, 2011 at 10:51 AM | cloudy thinking (Score:1)
blueheron
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Joined: 03/26/2009
MGoPoints: 2299

I'd also like someone to tell me WTF "Midwestern football" is.

"..."

January 12th, 2011 at 12:05 PM | We need to get rid of it all together (Score:1)
rpel84
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It is outdated and holds us back

January 12th, 2011 at 1:31 PM | Unfortunately my voting (Score:1)
thisisme08
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Joined: 12/02/2008
MGoPoints: 1458

Unfortunately my voting appears to not be working (keep getting an error) but many of these comments like Crex's and ga-michman share my feelings on the situation. 

Funny..this thread which is probably easiest to have someone go off on a tangent has the most thought out arguments, a much welcome site after all the CC: Threads. 

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