they needed a clock for msu to know when they get to put a beat down on little sister.
landing spot. will be interesting to see how he does.
they needed a clock for msu to know when they get to put a beat down on little sister.
Who's little sister?
our (Michigan's) little sister aka msu. I figured calling them "little brother" is cruel to all the little brothers out there.
I like to call them Michigan State University but that's just me..
I like to call them douchy fuggen twatwaffles, but that's just me...
Never woulda guessed...
and Bo. What's your point TIMMAAY?
Litle sister has beaten us three years in a row. I think we should probably hold off on the trite nicknames until we actually change that.
The first rule of business in 2011.
Seriously people. We're better than this.
We were better than this
I guess you guys are some of the new MGoHipsters prowling the boards these days, with the post-modernist attitude and the contempt for how shallow and trite our internet message board has gotten lately. Bongos and knit hats optional.
Nice find. They don't really reference it except in for two lines so good job. I am against the MSU clock. They seem so inferior except for the last three years that I don't think they deserve the respect of a clock. OSU certainly deserves the respect of one and maybe something on top of that.
I'd understand your feelings if it was any other Big Ten team in the conference. And even though we think of them as an afterthought compared to OSU, we do share a state and a fanbase with them. We battle each year for in-state recruits, so it damn well deserves its own clock.
an OSU clock does not bother me.. but an MSU clock..really?
Uh, yeah. The little brother must be put in his place.
It's okay as long as the clock is taken down when order is restored and the Spartans are beaten soundly this fall.
are absolutely correct.
Paysites lose again. They're not very good at hiding their "premium info". This is exactly why I don't waste money on them anymore. Clocks are good motivators. That is all.
I don't have a problem with either one.
They messed this up. They needed to take cool pictures and just have Denarded make "There are..." posts daily.
copying lame gimmicks of second rate institutions.
This and the reference to OSU as the school down south (or whatever it was that was copied from Woody Hayes) doesn't really instill a whole lot of confidence.
If this is true, what a joke.
I've been trying to wave this red flag about the whole "that school down south" thing and it ain't been workin'.
OK, you've warned us. Now what?
I was hoping for "stop saying 'that school down south' or 'tsio'" but if I can perhaps just raise awareness of the problem - why, if even just one person is a little more conscious of their.....no, fuck that. Stop it, it's no different than Sparty's "little sister" chant.
Good to see Michigan Arrogance is alive and kickin'! Haven't the past three seasons of having our asses kicked on a regular basis taught UM fans some humility?
Wasn't one of the complaints (some) UM fans leveled against RR was that he didn't put enough emphasis on honoring the importance of rivalry games? Hoke is taking action to re-affirm UM's commitment to the importance of "The Game" and the in-state battle with MSU. I'm not sure why this is perceived as a bad thing.
don't you think that the coaching staff of the winningest program in the NCAA could come up with something of their own? Maybe use something relevant and unique from the University of Michigan's history and heritage?
Motivation - I don't think that "emphasizing" rivalries did Rodriguez in. Just because he lost those game doesn't mean he did emphasize them, or didn't get the rivalries. It was a progressive lack of defense through his reign that did him in.
I also don't think that "countdown" clocks or referring to Michigan as "the school up north" as Woody Hayes did provided MSU or OSU with any additional motivation or resulted in any added wins. And I think that to copy them the way Hoke has is lame.
People were afraid that we've become Notre Dame. They are wrong. We have shot right past the Irish... it now seems that we are Michigan State.
An msu clock is fine when our last win against them was in 2007
I don't see a problem with either right now. Preferably we could be arrogant about all our games, but at this point, this team needs a fire under them.
We haven't beaten either team in quite a while, so I'm cool with some added motivation, but it's most useful as media catnip.
Is it better to ride on confidence earned in the past or have a chip on your shoulder from the recognition of recent failure? I lean toward the latter, at least re: the OSU clock.
Anybody else getting the feel that all this seems forced just to appease 60yr old dudes yelling to sit down and front and saying this is how Bo did it?
I love Brady's enthusiasm, but I just get the feeling he's reading from an "old blue" handbook and not being himself. He reminds me of Les Miles in that when you watch his interviews he seems like he is playing a role.
As long as the papers keep giving us positive press I guess it'll be fine for me, but I look forward to the day when Hoke does not have to defend Michigan's honor or prove himself worthy of the position by spouting Michiganisms with every interview and can just be himself.
I liked the things he's said since his very first presser but I think you hit the nail on the head. It hasn't always seemed 100% "genuine".
I am fine with OSU clock. The MSU one I have a problem with, I just hope it is a 1 year thing to show the importance of winning rivalry games.
We had one in high school located in the entrance to or weight room that ran all year. During the summer it counted down to our first game, then every game after that since the most important game was always the next one. I always liked it since every day you came in to do work you noticed that it was one less day until game time.
This is kind of my feeling on it. Not to say that rivalry games aren't important but they aren't the only games you play in a year. For me playing in any sport growing up, the most important game was the next one on the schedule.
No problem with a clock and I'd even be in favour of leaving the OSU one up but I'd have the clock counting down to Western right now.
To quote Hoke...
"Its. The. Most. Important. Game. On. That. Schedule." (while pounding fist)
I can see where folks are of the "lord this is a cheezy gimmick that must stop" variety. OTOH, after the stretch we've had, you've gotta let the new regime instill some urgency.
You also are correct.
... the people that feel these tacticts are below us have an inflated sense of self and are holding onto a time that no longer exists except in their imaginations.
I am all for trying new things... except coaching with stuffed animals. That's just plain weird.
EDIT: just realized that my signature sums up my attitude well... with the stuffed animal caveat, however.
Totally agree...and to take it even further, that "time" where we didn't resort to these type of "tactics" never existed in the first place. Coaches, including our beloved Bo Schembechler, use motivational tactics of all shapes and sizes and have since the beginning of time.
These type of arguments could be used to say that OSU was lame for handing out gold pants for beating some team from Michigan that they always beat...
Don't forget we're talking about 18-22 year olds here....not the fans/alums in their 30s and 40s who think this stuff is now lame.
I would rather us come up with our own motivational tactics than copy Michigan State
It's not like MSU invented countdown clocks...
I can agree that it's a little tacky, but so are 99% of team building motivational tools to outsiders. I'm sure the players buy into it and the focus it puts on those rivalry games....and that is all that's important.
So what's the difference between this and the "State Champions" sign/banner that is put up in the locker room if we beat State? They are both motivational tools focused on winning / placing importance on an obvious rivalry game. Add in Paul Bunyon while we're at it.
Whether people would like to admit it or not, the MSU game is very important regardless of how good they are or recent streaks, etc.
Haven't the last few years revealed how important that game is though? It's important to us as UofM fans for that game to be un-important....paradoxically making it important.
Chew on that.
I agree though. The status quo shall return when people take ugly ass Paul Bunyan for granted sitting in Schembechler Hall year after year after year after....
Other schools should count down to Michigan. Michigan should just beat whoever is next.
...with the little brown jug as his/her Avatar.
This is silly to me. First people want focus on rivalries now that there is we think it's beneath the team. Tangible goals are awesome, I don't really care how Hoke chooses to apply them. I freaking hate State - both of them - so beat the crap out of them!
as long as it helps the team stay focused on the big games. more power to it.
Normally, I would be against the MSU countdown clock in favor of "the next game". However, I'm a Junior going on being a Senior. I've never beaten MSU. That's not right.
I don't care what Hoke does. If it helps get these guys fired up, do it.
Given that they've beaten us three straight years, I'm all for the MSU clock.
Also, though it doesn't (yet) deserve its own clock, the Nebraska game should be inaugurated as our newest rivalry. I would love to see a trophy created and introduced at some kind of ceremony before the game this fall.
We could call it "The 1997 National Championship"
in both cases.
Next thing we know, there'll be a billboard up mocking MSU after we beat them.
I'd much prefer that we not obsess over our rivals.
tsio has been obsessed with us the whole decade. That's why they've kicked our asses. Tressel knows how to prepare for the game, he is an evil genius.
Hoke wants this rivalry to turn back around, emphasizing these games will definitely help.
"[Ohio State] has been obsessed with us the whole decade. That's why they've kicked our asses."
Ohio State has had better players with better coaching the whole decade. That's why they've kicked our asses.
The clock gimmick makes it seem like the primary focus for the season is to beat MSU and OSU. Then, if we accomplish that, we might achieve secondary goals such as being in contention for the Big 10 title and further off, being in contention for the MNC. No matter what happens, beating MSU and OSU is all that really matters.
I'd much rather be of the mindset that in order to compete for national championships, we need to win the conference and to win the conference, we need to beat MSU and OSU. I want to aim high with the thought that if we take care of business, we'll meet our goals. By publicly focusing on two games, I feel like we are aiming low, and this is not something a nationally relevant team would do.
If we are going to have a clock, I want clocks for every game on our schedule, the Big 10 championship game, and the MNC game. If our fans need a gimmick to prove to them that our coaches and players are taking our rivalry games more seriously, than put neon lights around those clocks.
All you need to do is post the schedule in Schembechler Hall, point to it, and say, "Win these games!". The clock is cute for the OSU game, maybe a Swatch for MSU.....I would rather we just play and win though.
You guys realize that the whole arrogant "why should we care about Sparty" vs Sparty's "you should care about us" attitudes are what makes it a rivalry right? It comes from our superiority complex and their inferiority complex and constant need for validation because they have nothing else in their lives. This is what fuels the rivalry. That's what's been the reaction to having a countdown clock for Sparty right?
Personally, I think it's great to have countdown clocks for these games. I don't think it means that they don't care about the next game, quite the opposite. What they want to do is take these rivalry games to the next level in terms of the performance our players put out there and the intensity they play with. It may have been lacking in the last few years, so it's something that really needs to be emphasized. I welcome the countdown clocks. I wonder if it's worth it to have a ND clock though...
I hate clocks. Remember when the Illini had one for us in 2008? Michigan is better than that.
They really are the most important games on the schedule. MSU is always the true mid season test, and every michigan fan should have a countdown clock for tsio! If you think about them and do something to better yourself to beat them every day of the year, it definitely helps. That's what Bo did, no not trying to bring out Bo comparisons here, but he always did something to prepare for tsio every day in practice. Doing this will help us GET BACK ON THE RIGHT TRACK!
..if MSU got one, Bama should definitely get one.
People need to stop bitching about having the clocks. It's a form of motivation for the kids. Relax.
But countdown clocks are smalltime. Also derivative.
It was stupid when Dantonio did it and it's still stupid when Hoke does it. Why not have one for ND? How about PSU? Nebraska's a big game and can possibly decide our division, should we have one for them?
If his ultimate goal is to win the Big Ten, then focusing on two of the eight games is not the way to do it.
Agreed. The only reason we don't need one for ND is because we have beaten them 2 years in a row? I just don't get it. If we are putting up a clock for everyone that has beaten us in recent years, PSU, Wisconsin, and Iowa should have clocks as well.
Wasn't one of the biggest knocks on RR that he didn't put enough of an emphasis on our rivalry games? How Hoke is putting too much of an emphasis on them?
At the end of the day there are two very legit truths...
1. Coaches will place as much emphasis as humanly possible on every game that is played becuase that's what coaches do. RR did this but made one big mistake...
2. Fans/Media/Alums all want to win rivalry games for bragging rights, and they want their team/coach to feel the same way. This means coaches need to demonstrate some level of emphasis on these games in order to fall in line with the people that sway public opinion. RR, like with many other interactions with externalities, did not "get it" and made the mistake of being too "straight-shootery" about his approach to the season. That pissed a lot of people off.
Hoke is having his cake and eating it too. He will internally prepare his coaches and team the same each week, while portraying this undying focus on rivalry games that will appease the masses. Now he just has to win and everyone will be happy.
Ugh. Could we please stop this shit. It's embarrassing. The people who were upset about RichRod not caring enough about rivalry games are the same people who would have just found something else to bitch about if he had come out and declared all other games meaningless. RR understood the rivalries just fine and you are fucking stupid if you think otherwise. He was the fucking coach of Michigan...if you don't think he put extra emphasis on Ohio State and Michigan State then I don't know what to tell you. People who didn't like him decided it was a really big deal because he wasn't winning them. MSU started to become a rivalry and ND started not to because people who didn't like RR decided rivalries only counted when you started losing them. This is how it goes. If you are well liked, no one questions stupid shit like if you understand rivalries. People don't take everything you say and twist it into something it isn't....did anyone ever say Lloyd blamed the kids after he said the team didn't execute? Did anyone question Hoke while at SDSU when he said the exact same thing? No. Lloyd lost to OSU 5 times in a row to end his career at UM and no one was questioning whether or not he got the rivalry. This is the difference between coaches who are accepted and coaches who aren't.
Losing to your rivals is a really big deal. As much as you want to turn it into an RR thing, it's got nothing to do with him.
That was part of my point. Why is it that before RichRod, everyone hated Notre Dame and they were a pretty big rivalry while no one thought twice about MSU. Now, it is the exact opposite. Because we lost to State? Why is it that people like dahblue and other people who didn't like him say RichRod was 0-6 in rivalry games while conveniently forgetting about a rival who, until RR got here, was our 2nd most important rivalry to most? So if Hoke comes in and beats MSU this year and loses to ND and OSU, like some are predicting, do you think a single person will question whether he "gets" rivalries because he is 1-2 in them? Nope.
Did you even read what I wrote? I'm sure RR put an emphasis on those games, my point was that he was not media-savvy enough to play that up in the media to placate the masses and put the collective "us" at ease. I wish coaches didn't have to do that, I really do, but the fact is they do and RR was terrible at that part of his job.
Also, the heat on RR for not taking the rivalries seriously started on Day One, not after he lost all 6 of those rivalry games. He stuck to that "every game is just as important as the next" schtick the whole time. RR is good/great at a lot of things when it comes to coaching college football, but dealing with all the externalities (both positive and negative) that come with being the figurehead of a major program like UofM is/was not one of them. Hoke, although he is benefiting from the B.S. RR faced, seems to understand that he can run the program however he damn well wants but that appeasing the media/fans/alums/ex-players/etc. can only help him.
My instinctive reaction was "ugh". My overall reaction was "Ugh, but I don't really care". While I don't agree with the decision, I'm willing to support the coach and really hope this doesn't become a big controversy.
As long as we win both games, I'm ALL IN for any sort of motivational tactic the staff wants to employ, including sacrificing goats, as long as it is not an NCAA violation.
Whatever it takes to stop being dragged through the mud. People need to be put their goddamn places this fall. I remember the week after this year's MSU game.... every time I went to bed, visions of Leveon Bell, Beanie Wells, Edwin Baker, Dan Herron striking for 50+ yard TDs kept dancing in my head. I'm so sick of being embarrassed.
If for some reason you think Michigan is "above" those "other schools" you need to open your eyes to a program that has not won a Rose Bowl since 1998, a Big Ten title since 2004, a BCS Bowl Game since 2000 (Michigan has won only one of those!), a game against the Buckeyes since 2003.
Maybe Michigan isn't the invincible dynasty we thought it was...so yes, I'm okay with treating our rivals and our damn defensive side of the ball with a little more intensity this go-round.
Yes, I'm sure that you are personally embarassed by the players' performance on the field. I just don't understand how that can possibly be since you're not on the field on Saturdays.
Look, if there is one thing that defines ALL Michigan teams - including under Rodriguez - it's that they have always played hard for Michigan.
I'm not sure if you're a Wolverine or not, but I can guarantee you that this Wolverine is never embarassed by anything related to on-field performance. Disappointed? Upset? Sure, but I am proud of my school.
This notion that we, as alumns and fans, are somehow owed something by the players or the football program is absurd.
Where did you get this from? Well that's not what I was trying to say.
No, I'm not personally embarrassed by the players (if anything I was embarrassed FOR them, they should at least beat OSU once or twice). It was the coaching that got to me.
You said "I'm so sick of being embarrassed."
Perhaps I misinterpreted that, though I think it's a reasonable interpretation. I apologize if I misconstrued your argument, because I essentially agree with the remainder of your argument.
You're relatively new around these parts, so perhaps you're not yet aware of the (in mgoblog lexicon) "OMG UNACCEPTABLE" crowd. This is a group of people who treat Michigan football as some kind of product that they purchase through their time and/or ticket sales.
For me, a proud alumn, there is no alternative "product" and the only way I am embarassed by our football program is if we adopt the SEC "win at all costs" mentality, which will never happen.
Apologies if this turned out to be a heated agreement.
Why in the world would people be against this?
Is a dead ringer for the guy that poisened the trees at Auburn.
But the 2nd one should be for the Big Ten title game. He has already said that is the goal and if we don't win the BT championship then we have failed. It's time to be Michigan again!
Fine by me if it gets us to play better against them.
I would like this idea with a little twist. Instead of a count down clock, how about a count up clock? Days, hours, minutes, seconds since the last time Michigan won either of those games. I think it would be much more motivational to see those obscenely large numbers get larger every day and knowing it's up to you to zero those s.o.b.'s out.
In the WWE, that would be called "gimmick infringement."
If they could find a way to turn one of those clocks into a middle LB who doesn't let anything by, though, I would be all for it.
Make the Sparty clock a swatch. Or a Sundial....
(Not mentioning an orrery because the folks on RCMB would not understand what that was.)
and many anuses will assplode.
me, i like helmet stickers.
for the clock he put in the Spartoon locker room counting the minutes to the UM game. Haw, haw, haw, what an idiot.
And then I'd like to see how many of them suddenly are all in favor of a Brady Hoke countdown clock.
And I am completely against this move.
It's funny how much the people on MgoBlog insist that MSU is not a rivalry, yet we talk about them all the time and get really pissed when they beat us (Three years in a row btw). Also, like it or not, they don't OMG SEWWWWWK, as they just capped off an 11 win season. Dantonio is a dick but he's doing good work over there.
but I, personally, "get really pissed when they beat us" because Sparty fan suddenly forgets a decade of beat downs and acts as if MSU has become the more relevant football program in the state after a victory.
The disgust of losing against OSU and even ND is completely different than that for losing to MSU. If MSU, can sustain a decent program and not be a flash in the pan once every 10 years, then my feelings will likely change.
I'm not sure I would call it a decade of beatdowns. They've generally been really solid games.
2000: 14-0 W
2001: 24-26 L
2002: 49-3 W
2003: 27-20 W
2004: 45-37 W (3OT)
2005: 31-34 W (OT)
2006: 31-13 W
2007: 28-24 W (4th Q comeback)
2008: 21-35 L
2009: 20-26 L (OT)
2010: 17-34 L
We're 6-4 against Sparty this decade with only one real blowout on there. Lots and lots of really close games there.
1997: 23-7 W
1998: 29-17 W
1999: 31-34 L
10 years prior to 2008, Michigan was 8-2 against Sparty and they hadn't won 2 in a row since 1967. So, yeah, I consider that a regular beat down.
That didn't stop Bo Schembechler, Gary Moeller and Lloyd Carr from hanging a large MSU banner in the locker room every time they beat us. The banner stayed there until we won. We didn't do that for any other school.
Can you not recognize the difference between highlighting the MSU game at the beginning of the season and punishing the team for losing to MSU?
For the sake of argument, lets say that a countdown clock is the same as a post game banner. It doesn't really take away from my underlying point. I think it is short sighted to make winning the MSU and OSU games the primary goal for the season. The three coaches prior to RR didn't exactly have steller records against premier teams out of conference and in their 40 years as HC, Michigan has exactly one National Championship.
Noted: 2008-2010 didn't count apparently because we weren't winning the games. We usually win, but Sparty usually puts up a strong fight for being so vastly inferior. On game day they are a rival, but so much of the rest of the year Michigan fans tend to be in denial about it for some reason.
I imply that I feel differently than the way I feel today, than your comment will be validated. Don't hold your breath.
As far as your sarcasm goes, it's misapplied. My "once a decade" comment was an obvious exageration. MSU has won three games in a row. that is correct.... and their fans act as if it is the rule and not the exception.
You know..... Texas A&M has won 3 of the last 5 against Texas. What is your perception of that rivalry?
I have a countdown clock in my room for the Minnesota game. The Litte Brown Jug STAYS in Ann Arbor.
is one that counts the time until another Spartan is arrested on assault charges.
I hope we get rid of that "circle of death" routine during pregame warmups. It was a lame contrivance that didn't do a damn thing for us when it came to playing defense.
I mean....touching the banner doesn't help our defense either. I thought the circle of death was neat.
I agree that "touching the banner" doesn't help the defense any more than the "Circle of Death" did, but nobody calls it "touching the banner of death." Calling something a bad-ass/trash-talking name—"Ooooooh, the Circle of Death!"—and then going out and losing the vast majority of your conference games, many of them in verifiable asskickings, makes a "Circle of Death" sort of comical, if that's what you're going to call it.
There were plenty of new things that RR instituted, such as singing The Victors in front of the student section after a victory, the team's walk to the stadium before the game, and the alumni flag football game at the spring game, that I think were great and hope are continued. The Circle of Death is just one that didn't ring true to me.
I'm fine with most of those, but signing "The Victors" in front of the students shouldn't be a forced ritual. It should be spontaneous, after big games, as it sometimes was under Carr. It doesn't need to be done after EMU and the like.
This is all we have to post about. *facepalm*
If this is something you don't enjoy then you shouldn't come back until March 19th.
Why not have 12 clocks in your office with each clock representing the next time you play against each B12 opponent......that way you can avoid all of the confusion.
Seeing as there are 12 teams in the BigTen now I guess you want Michigan to play themselves? Math + Sparty = FAIL. That is really bad. The other part is that no BigTen team will play every team in the conference. They have OOC games, though. Sit this one out and come back next week refreshed.