much love for the B1G.
Michigan DNP; moves to 19 in AP, stays at 17 in Coaches
winning will take care of everything. polls really dont matter until november when you have 5 teams vying for 2 spots. And if it does matter to you, dont worry because in the coaches we are 17th and the coaches is part of the BCS.
Exactly. Some people get so upset about rankings when all that matters is 1 & 2. Wins absolutely fix everything.
the fact that Ole Miss only dropped to 24 (from 21) after getting shut out and losing by 25 tells me all I need to know. Sure, it was Alabama, but its not like they were remotely competitive.
You did not watch the game. It was MUCH closer than the final score. Ole Miss would have been ahead at half time if they hadn't shot themselves in the foot more than once. They were completely shutting down Bama's offense for most of the game. The final score was padded by some late scores. Bama looks very beatable this year despite the final score.
If Michigan hadn't turned the ball over so many times in the last two games, ranking would be much higher. Alas, it is not so.
Everyone seems to think that this year is the UCronpocalypse, but I think our game against UConn was a total fluke. Even with our offensive woes, we handled them easily on defense. Our special teams made one unusual error, and our offense made a few usual ones. Without the unusual special teams error, the game is easily ours with all--was it four?--of our turnovers.
I think we showed enough development against UConn that I have great hope for the rest of the season.
turned the ball over 5 times against Buffalo yesterday! that might have been a problem.
hopefully the turn over bug was passed on to UConn like passing the flu to a co-worker. they can suffer and Michigan can go back to playing relatively clean football.
Impressive. Most impressive.
I'm trying to convince myself that Michigan is not terrible. It's not working. I'm going to find another thread where I can again point out that u conn Turned the ball over 5 times! They were awesome against us!!!
The Akron game was a "fluke" in the sense that we completely underplayed our level of talent--hence, not a fluke (in my opinion). We consistently failed on both sides of the ball. Defense couldn't generate pressure or play coverage; offense turned the ball over half a dozen times.
The UConn game was a fluke in the sense that the special teams miffed one play that completely changed the rest of the game and made us play catch-up. But we caught up, and we overcame the other team because we played better than they did.
Offense still failed against UConn, but defense didn't. Hence: Enough growth for me to be encouraged.
You can just call it for what it was:
UTL2013 = Huge Emotional Win
Akron = "Oh, they suck, why bother?"
UConn = "OMG!! Panic!! We must prove our mettle.. #fail"
Bye = "HOKESMASH!!"
uMinn should = "Gopher stomp"
...wisdom from the ages...
I didn't blame the game on the defense. I blamed it on the offense and the special teams.
Some people's ability to maintain a high level of optimism is astounding to me. According to this line of thinking, we've somehow managed to play 8 quarters in a row of flukey football.
Regardless of the circumstances, if you can't beat up on Akron and UConn you're probably just not that good.
It's just the offense. The defense is good. They needed a week to remember.
Our offense has growing pains. That's it.
The defense is good and hopefully improves with Jake Ryan's return along with young players getting more PT.
The offense can be good as long as they avoid turnovers. One stat I was amazed by during the UConn game: for the however many games Devin was starter he has more turnovers than any other player, during that same stretch only Manziel accounted for more TDs. Huge upside but also a big risk if Devin can't shake the TOs.
Thank you, Sir Jack. A voice of reason. The Buffalos and Louisiana-Lafayettes of the world have no problem blowing out shit-horrible teams like Akron and UConn.
And ULL beat Akron by 5 with a well-timed and -executed onside kick to get ahead by a score. If Akron had a better kicker, they had a chance to win it - 2 missed FGs in the 4th.
Not saying Akron is that good, just correcting generalizations about the ULL game.
Not surprising. We went from, "Wow, Michigan beat Mighty ND," to "Nice record but Michigan hasn't played anyone," pretty quickly.
And willya look at Maryland...
More like, "Nice record but Michigan squeaked out wins after trailing in the 4th quarter against arguably the two worst teams in college football."
Well, "arguably" I suppose. Anything is "arguably" true.
They'd both probably be three-touchdown favorites over New Mexico State or Georgia State. They're bad, for sure, but it's a long way even from really, really bad to the two worst.
Here's the distribution of the votes this week:
14th - 5 votes
15th - 4 votes
16th - 11 votes
17th - 7 votes
18th - 7 votes
19th - 9 votes
20th - 10 votes
21st - 1 vote
22nd - 2 votes
25th - 2 votes
unranked - 3 votes
What it amounts to actually is a slight upward tick in our average ranking to 17.88 from 18.11 last week, so that at least is good news. After six polls now, our cumulative average position is 15.71 across 347 votes and the median and mode are both 16.
It's nice to see a low number next to the name, but let's be honest, we're not winning a NC this year and that is all that rankings really matter for. Our goal is winning the Big Ten and then the Rose bowl, and this goal is still attainable (although looking less likely after the last couple weeks),
Did you really ever sit there at one point during this season, or even before it, and think to yourself that this team was ready to win a NC? If so, you are a far more optimistic man than I.
Don't get me wrong; this is a talented team, especially with some of the younger guys. But there were going to be a LOT of growing pains this year with having to play so many young guys, and I think there could be again next year. Both tackles, including the best left tackle in America, have to be replaced going into next year. Gallon will be gone, along with Fitz, Gordon, Q-Wash, Jibreel Black, and others. The O-Line could again be completely overhauled, and its not a stretch to think that next year, Kalis could be the only returning starter on the line, especially with talented guys like Dawson, Kugler, Bosch, and Tillman waiting in the wings.
I'm going on a bit of a long rant here, but I guess I'm saying we should temper our expectations a little bit. Not to say this team isn't capable of big things, but if you asked me, I'd say that the level of experience won't be where we ideally want it to be until maybe 2015. The raw talent is already there, but having proven game experience, refined technique, and a lot of time in the weight room count for a lot.
But then again, I'm sometimes a glass half-empty guy. I hope to be proven horribly wrong and watch this team go undefeated.
I'm right with you on expectations and whatnot. My point was that falling one spot in the midteens in the rankings doesn't really impact our season at all. I just don't think it is something to stress over at this point.
They were just one ill-timed night on the town by a group of Bama players (and the police) from the NC.
It's all relative though. The big ten frankly sucks. I thought 10 wins +/-1 going into the season, thought more like 10-11 post ND, so at least going undefeated regular season didn't seem that wacky. But I also never thought that we could compete with a Bama, Georgia, Clemson, Oregon caliber team.
Even now though, we've had two very strong performances and two awful ones, and 90% of it is whether DG is turning it over. Obviously the OL is struggling with consistency, but with their youth their is some hope for the season. DG is a wildcard.
Regardless, we're looking at a PSU team who already lost once, Nebraska, who is a shit show (Pelini will probably get axed), MSU, who can't score points with their offense, and finally NW, who is one dimensional in the opposite sense of MSU.
Anyone talking about 7-5, 8-4 seasons needs to realize that Mich has the most potential of anyone in our division and Gardner has previously shown that he can take far better care of the ball than he has the majority of this season.
Agreed, I saw people saying 6-6 was our absolute best after UConn and really couldn't help but laugh.
7-5 or 8-4 could be very realistic.. Gardner has a huge issue with only focusing on Gallon, and staring down the WR he is throwing to. This wasn't an issue the first couple games because teams didn't have that much tape to watch.. Now he continues to do it every game and it is becoming easier for teams to just read him, or double team gallon. Who he still continues to throw to even though he is double covered.
I am all for hoping that he comes off this bye week and dominates again like he did against ND, but I won't hold my breath either..
I'd say worst case scenario, barring key injuries, is 8-4. People are forgetting that we destroyed CMU and torched ND's defense (and while ND lost yesterday, it was strictly because of Rees ints, not defense). People are forgetting how good Devin looked last year. People are forgetting just how bad the B10 is outside of OSU (luckily we don't play Wisco). People are forgetting that we have a pretty good defense. People are forgetting that we are about to get Jake Ryan back. People are forgetting that OSU should have lost to Cal and Purdue last year but instead went undefeated.
NC State beat CMU 48-14.
We beat CMU 59-9.
NC State lost to Clemson 26-14 (if it weren't for that BS call ...)
So, theoretically, we are better than NC State, and therefore should be able to beat Clemson.
While we are at it, Clemson beat Georgia, so there is that too ...
I agree with everything you said sans Tillman having a shit at a 2 deep or even starting job. That young man has a long way to go to be game ready, let alone quality starter in the BIG.
We will continue to to have shaking head moments of how did we just do that great play, as well as why did you just do that!
Truthfully, I go into every season thinking we might win the NC. Because you just don't know.
We won it in 1997, but that was not a year where you would have thought going into the season that we would be something special. The previous year was pretty ordinary, even weak.
Likewise, we were in the NC hunt late in the season in other surprise years like '85, '88, '03, and '06, where based on the previous year, you would have thought there would be no chance.
You never know how much water is going to be in the glass.
Until we lose a game, NC is still a possibility even if it is unlikely.
I believe if we go undefeated we will be passed over for a 1-loss SEC team or any other unbeaten. Just my opinion and I doubt there will ever be a chance to find out, but that was my point.
Not if we beat Ohio twice and went undefeated. We would be in the MNC game.
Yup. There is no way in hell a 13-0 M team is not in the title game.
was passed over by a 1-loss SEC team, I think everybody in the other major conferences would join us in burning down NCAA headquarters. The SEC is not great enough to justify that (and they don't even look that good this year)
Waste your matches on the wrong target. This is one sport where the NCAA does not run the championship. Burn the coaches poll, burn the nebulous Harris poll, or burn the six computers and their secret formulas if you want to go after the source.
Maryland didn't play and moved into the top 25 for the AP. Michigan didn't play and moved down a spot in the AP.
Oh right, Maryland plays number 8 FSU this week and for the media it looks a lot better for ranked FSU to be playing ranked Maryland.
Or, you know, Maryland is undefeated and shutout West Virginia who just upset no. 11 Oklahoma State.
But your media conspiracy theory sounds great too.
I have no problem with Maryland being ranked right now. It's better than the Coaches' Poll where Maryland is unranked and Nebraska somehow found a way back into the poll after getting obliterated by UCLA at home.
Northern Illinois deserves to be in the Top 25 as well.
Did you really just bash the media conspiracy theory by applying the transitive property to college football?
The internet may have just been destroyed.
Wisconsin and ND lost and were fairly knocked out of the poll. Maryland is undefeated and they destroyed the same WVU team that just beat Oklahoma State. They deserve to be ranked given the circumstances.
Keep the little brown jug!
Wisconsin goes on the road and almost beats a top 5 team in a night game, so it makes a lot of sense to drop them out of the polls.
Almost beats is a little strong.
I am a little irked that 1 loss Florida has eased over M again for...beating Kentucky and Tennessee? I think some people do their rankings based on how good they think the team is rather than how good their season's been.
Not really. If they don't give up that 45 yard bomb with three seconds before the half they win. Not to mention Ohio getting a couple nice calls along the way.
Wiscy gets great pressure on Braxton Miller in the 2nd quarter and recovers a fumble on Miller's attempted throw inside the OSU 10. But the defender grabbed Miller's helmet and gets flagged for a facemask. Clear penalty, but unnecessary.
And also in the 2nd quarter, Wiscy rugby-style punts, and the OSU return man makes an ill-advised attempt to field. He fumbles, Wiscy recovers on the OSU ~25, but Wiscy is flagged for lining up incorrectly.
If Wiscy doesn't shoot itself in the foot on those three plays, I'd have to say Wiscy wins more likely than not. (Or at least OSU would have had to come from behind in a different game situation.)
Wiscy is 2 and a half dumb palys from being undefeated. Dropping them completely out of the polls is harsh.
Actually their freshman corner flat out dropped an easy interception right before that play. Wisconsin shot itself in the foot all night (multiple drive-killing bone head penalties too). Meanwhile they lit up the guy who was supposed to be the best corner in the Big Ten.
"I think some people do their rankings based on how good they think the team is rather than how good their season's been." Ummm...just about everyone does that at this point in the season. If you were looking at a blind resume, #4 Ohio State doesn't look much different than #15 Washington or #25 Maryland. All three teams are undefeated, have played at least two major-conference teams, and have ~30 ppg margin of victory thusfar. When you get to the end of the season, a resume argument is easier to make. Right now, these are effectively power rankings with an additional penalty for losing games.
Won that game for sure. But it could've been closer.
Texas A&M played Bama down to the wire. Georgia has faced THREE top ten teams so far, won two of those games and lost the other close. Meanwhile, LSU is LSU. You really want to tell me that none of them deserve to be in the top 10?
South Carolina is in no way a top 10 team. Saying they are is a joke.
That is good because South Carolina is not in the top 10.
Right, until they start actually getting beaten, the SEC will rightfully be considered the best conference. Complaining about how they are rated is absurd. Those SEC teams in the top ten deserve to be there.
The only "top" SEC team I'm not sold on is South Carolina. They have a loss to Georgia and a pretty easy schedule (play two ranked opponents: Florida and Clemson, both at home). Ole Miss staying ranked after losing by 25 and being shut out is also a bit ludicrous in my opinion (wins over Vandy, Southeastern Missouri State [real college], and Texas). Florida at #18 is also questionable, given their three wins are over Toledo, Tennessee, and Kentucky.
But I digress. In general, I agree. The B1G certainly has done no favors for themsevles in the past few years, last year was close (almost Nebraska over Georiga, almost Michigan over South Carolina, etc.) but no cigar.
Sagarin agrees with you on Mississippi but not on the rest. Sagarin predictor rankings for the top of the SEC (I'll put Massy's power ranking in parentheses for some confirmation, or not):
- 1. Alabama (1)
- 4. LSU (6)
- 8. Georgia (5)
- 9.Texas A&M (4)
- 14. Florida (14)
- 15. South Carolina (11)
- 34. Missouri (17)
- 35. Auburn (35)
- 37. Mississippi (19)
Mississippi has played the #2 schedule in the country so far, though. The basic Sagarin ranking that takes wins and losses into account by weighting in his BCS/ELO ranking has Mississippi at 25.
I have no idea why Massey has Missouri so high. The one big difference I know of between the two systems is that Massey discounts big point spreads more heavily than other systems do, so it tends to (relative to the other computers) prefer schools playing stronger schedules over schools pounding weak opposition. Missouri's the latter, and I don't get it. Maybe it has something to do with the way the systems phase out last year's results as the statistics get better on this season.
I don't agree with you about the one-loss teams, but Ole Miss being ranked after getting shut out is a little ridiculous. If they had kept that game even remotely close, I could understand it, but they got shut out and beat by 25. They have played and beat nobody significant.
If you think about it, they lost to Bama by two fewer points than we did. We dropped out of the polls from #11. They dropped four spots, still ranked. None of the other rankings faze me so much but Ole Miss has me scratching my head.
Well, we didn't drop out until we lost to Notre Dame, but we did drop much farther than Ole Miss did.
Ole Miss is the classic case of innocence by association. They are clearly trading off of the SEC label.
If they were in the B1G, Big 12, Pac 12, or ACC and got shut out by Alabama like that, they would be out of the polls.
Ole Miss, Arkansas, South Carolina, Miss State a couple of years ago, and even Kentucky, have really been riding the SEC coat tails of late.
actually look at anything before a final score before commenting??? The Bama-Ole Miss game was MUCH closer than the final score. Ole Miss passed up several easy field goals and shot themselves in the foot when their WR threw a pick on an earlier drive in Bama territory. Bama could barely move the ball most of the game and padded the final margin with some late scores.
You know how you fix that? Beat the SEC in non-con matchups or bowl games. No one has been able to figure how how to do that on a consistent basis, and until they do, that conference will be perceived as untouchable.
Winning 7 straight national championships helps, too. I'm not saying I disagree with you, but their dominance in the polls, in my mind, is completely justified. Minus Ole Miss, of course. That one does leave me scratching my head.
And as soon as the SEC starts scheduling road games against tough opponents that can happen. As it is, they play a few "neutral" site game where they are virtually the home team and that's it. Bama cancelled their home and home against MSU rather than drop a game against South Alabama State Agricultural School of Technology. Are they "scurred" of MSU? Not particularly, but a trip to East Lansing still had the potential for an upset at least. Why not just play it safe and expand to 9 games so you can play another game against Vanderbilt or Kentucky and have ESPN hype it as a huge showdown between SEC powerhouses?
Conference strength is cyclical, sure, but right now the perception of the SEC is so out of whack with reality that they are going to stay atop the polls indefinitely. Going 4-5 in a bowl season or two won't change it, they'll just write it off as a fluke. The only way the perception will change at this point is for the SEC to get blanked a few bowl seasons in a row and that just isn't going to happen.
So the SEC can only be beat by playing away? You are not making the best argument for SEC is overhyped.
I would love to see week two being the B1G East playing SEC East and B1G West playing SEC West using the last BCS to pair teams 1-7 with teams 1-7. Home B1G the first year and Home SEC the second. East and West could switch every two years so that you can see the relaitve strength that direction too. That would show top to bottom how strong the conferences are and give a bit more insight on how things truly stack up.
But that is a crazy fantasy akin to bikini models breaking down on lonely highways needing my assistance.
Between dropping in the rankings and our last 2 unimpressive wins we may catch our opponents underestim.....Oh my God we're lying in the weeds!!!!
This made me laugh. Nicely done.
Our lone "quality win" was over ND ... So, yeah. Right now, our games against NW, Wisc, MSU and Ohio can all be wins or losses. Until Team 134 proves it can run the ball, pass the ball, catch the ball and HANG ONTO THE DAMN BALL, I'm not calling my bookie just yet.
We don't play Wisconsin this year. That is, unless, we play them in the Championship game.
Other than that, I agree with every statement you made.
We could not play Wisconsin this year and still lose to them, that's how erratic our season has been.
Hope this lights a fire under them. The turnovers need to stop
...but at Massey Michigan dropped 20 slots without playing, thanks to bad losses by every opponent and some subpar performances by opponents' opponents too.
M is now 51st in the base rating that includes w/l racords, 62nd in "power" (the equivalent of Sag "predictor"). That's ninth in the B1G, ahead of Indiana, Minnesota and Purdue.
I'm going to keep telling myself this is largely due to very bad turnover luck and isn't a true reflection of strength.
I don't think turnover luck applies to our recent struggles. We made the turnovers and they capitalized.
Hopefully the team continues to improve. If that happens, we won't have to worry about ranking and the struggles of the past will fade from memory.
I think we I start improving before we can continue improving. As far as I'm concerned we regressed from Akron to UCONN.
Disagree. The defense improved from the Akron to the UConn game.
But maybe things get better over the bye.
We'll have to wait until after our second bye. Things will get better by and by.
Sagarin has us at 40th. For reference, the entire B1G:
- Ohio - 13th
- Wisconsin - 15th
- Maryland - 20th
- Penn State - 31st
- Iowa - 36th
- Northwestern - 39th
- Michigan - 40th
- Michigan State - 41st
- Nebraska - 47th
- Rutgers - 53rd
- Illinois - 54th
- Indiana - 64th
- Minnesota - 72nd
- Purdue - 119th
It wouldn't bother me if M wasn't ranked. Maybe it would serve as motivation for the players. It will be interesting to see how Gardner responds against MN. The turnovers have to stop. If he makes a really stupid decision then he should be pulled. He needs to understand that punting the ball isn't the end of the world.
and the polls will take care of themselves.
Edit: Fixed the placement of this comment.
I will just say that polls in before week 10 don't really matter.