I'll be very sad when Hoke leaves after this year to go pan for gold.
Michigan coaches in their 3rd year: from Eleven Warriors
Or the NFL
NFL makes more sense, Hoke already poops gold so no need for him to go pan for it. Unless it's in his bathroom.
Did you hear that from Urban?
He undoubtedly did his own independent research, and although he couldn't find a single credible source to back it, came to the conclusion that Hoke will go to the NFL all on his own.
A couple of seasons after Ferbert, the legendary Yost arrived on campus. While the Wolverines didn't lose a single game for any of his first four seasons, Michigan won 11 games in his third without allowing a single point.
The season-long shutout was in 1901, Yost's first season. His third season included the infamous 6-6 tie against Minnesota that spawned the Little Brown Jug rivaly (and those 6 points were the only points Michigan allowed that season).
1905 takes the cake though. Michigan allowed 2 points in the entire season...those 2 points coming in a 2-0 loss in the season finale to Chicago with the conference championship on the line.
This is a really interesting article. It's the type of information I would usually expect to find at mgoblog. Oh wait, how come no one here thought to compile this information first?
Call me crazy but I think you're chastising yourself in this question as well, no?
That's true, I am. I wish I would have thought of this idea before Eleven Warriors did it.
Every time I go over to 11W, I'm impressed with both the amount and quality of content they produce. As far as college sports blogs go, they run an extremely professional site with many thoughtful writers and generally intelligent posters. The contrast with some of the more regrettable aspects of this site - e.g. the endless circle-jerks over muppets, kate upton, and other exhausted memes - is striking.
::prepares to get negged back to the eighteenth century::
I actually agree with you. Every time I visit 11W I come away with a new-found respect for their bloggers. And while I can't necessarily say the same thing for their forum slappies that act like typical ohio fans, I do appreciate the site's overrall feel, formatting, and well-researched postings on the main page. I think it's hard to maintain such quality without charging for the blog (a la this site or 11W), but I do think many of our diarists provide for the same type of reasearched-based topics that end up on 11W's main page. Now if only we could stop the recent overrunning of trolls on this site...
It's tough for MGoBlog to maintain it's high level of content because all of our best writers/insiders keep getting tapped up by recruiting services, but I agree our diarists and mods do a great job trying to fill the void.
I think that's fair, and certainly an aspect of the site that should make us all (but especially Brian, et al.) very proud. I guess my issue is more that MGo has become so insufferably inside-jokey as to be practically unreadable to anyone who doesn't spend every day perusing the boards and inculturating themselves to the Kate Upton gifs, muppets clips, memes that were popular in 2005, and "unverified voracity," an obscure joke from half a decade ago. And of course, if you are the kind of poster who comes on here every day, how can you not be irritated at this inane repetitiveness? For those of you complaining that Dave Brandon hasn't agreed to sit down for an interview with Brian, can you blame him for declining to lend institutional credibility to an online masturbatorium of tired and unfunny memes?
MGB is the best thing the Michigan fan community has, bar none, but emulating a few more qualities of 11W and a few less of Something Awful forums would increase both the credibility and readability of the site.
this kind of gratiutious meanness is the problem. bolivia.
There is most definitely a very interesting dynamic about this site. There are definitely many people that frequent the site more often than just daily, but there are also many on the other spectrum that only visit after certain events or for specific information. I can understand how members that don't visit everyday could be annoyed by all the "inside" jokes and memes but I think that just comes with the territory. Its no different than going out with a bunch of guys that you don't see all that often and having to sit through inside jokes/stories in person. Several members have created MGoFriendships just by being regulars and I think they would say that the "extracurricular" aspects of the blog are its most endearing features. On the other hand, I presume that a many less-frequent visitors find the internal banter pretty entertaining. To each his/her own, right?
Moreover, who can blame Brian for having his own idiocyncracies and personality ooze through his writing? I mean, it IS his website and, if I may put my own words in his mouth, he's probably writing almost much for himself as everyone else. Maybe other blogs don't have as much personality seeped into the writing but I think most of us would prefer reading a more "personal" blog than a "professional"** blog by Rothstein or the like.
**I obviously do not mean to infer that this website is not professional.
and it's too bad, but in my view, it's mostly limited to the posters (Kate GIFs). As for your complaints of "unverified voracity" or the muppets...it's part of the blog and it's not that much to get caught up with.
As for credibility, I suppose Dave Brandon could deny an interview to the site by pointing at a bit of foolishness. That said, it wouldn't be honest on his part. Where else do you see genuine and lucid analysis given to league structure decisions or recruiting offer decisions or cable TV contract decisions? Freep? Det News? SI, Mgoblue? Rivals? Nowhere else. The site is the single best source of non-insider thought and information on M football and basketball.
If the site is overly clubby or falsely intellectual or just full of itself I'll still take it if only because it keeps itself in check by abusing its own idiots (using "O$U" etc). I'd go far as to say you are here because you find a little kinship. Let me help. I'd suggest using a circle jerk angle rather than the online masturatorium one you used.
I think the bloggers at 11W do an excellent job with the topics they cover and their posts offer great insight into the OSU side of the rivalry. Good content, informative posts, very respectful of the Rivalry, fair criticisms of both Michigan and OSU. They clearly think that Meyer walks on water, but in fairness, if Michigan had hired someone of Meyer or Harbaugh's profile and then went 12-0 in the first season with him as HC, we'd all be thinking the same thing.
The problem I have with 11W is the posters in the comment section. Good Lord those forums are filled with complete idiocy. I know that some of the comment sections on mgoblog are filled with elements of retardation, but by and large I find the comments in here to have a good mix of humor, insight and, most importantly, fair criticism of the home team. Are there obvious trolls or morons who think that "Buck the Fuckeyes" is a real clever way of making fun of OSU? Sure, but most of those guys get taken to task by the other posters and/or mods. At 11W, it's scUM this, scUM that. Most of the posters on that site go out of their way to sound like 20 year old blind fanboys with no concept of reality or respect for the opponent.
What chafes me the most is their perception of Meyer vs. Hoke. I will be the first to admit I'd rather have Meyer as my favorite team's HC over Hoke. I love Hoke, but Meyer is one of the top 2 or 3 coaches in the country, and if my goal is to have a team that can win the NC, I feel my chances would improve by employing Meyer over Hoke. That said, you'd have to be a fool as an OSU supporter to not at least begrudgingly acknowledge the tremendous job Hoke has done so far, given what the program was like when he came in here. The improvement of the defense, breaking the streak against OSU, the Top 10 recruiting classes, etc. Is the program where we all want it to be yet? No, but it's certainly trending in the right direction and it's very clear that Hoke and his staff have done a good job of coaching up the RichRod players while mixing in new talent that's a better long-term fit for their system.
Hoke goes from 7-6 to 11-2 in his first year, and the 11W posters give him no credit for this, pointing to a favorable schedule only and OSU having an awful team in 2011. Meyer goes from 6-7 to 12-0 in 2012 with an even easier schedule than what we had in 2011, and it's all because he's the best coach ever, OSU will never lose another game until 2019, etc. The reality is that both coaches executed similar turnarounds in their respective first seasons on the job, and Hoke's record in Year 2 was clearly impacted by an unusually tough schedule and D-Rob's injury. They've both done very good jobs so far, and each has more work to do. I think that the mgoblog posters do a better job of seeing and acknowledging this reality than the 11W posters do.
The mgoblog posters definitely whine about Meyer too much (implying he's a cheater, liar, etc) but you rarely see anyone accuse him of being a bad coach. Over on 11W? Most of those guys act like Hoke is big, fat idiot who has no idea what he's doing. I find this to be particularly self-loathing because that description could easily be applied to most of the residents of Ohio (I kid, I kid!).
Their recruiting take is comical. Dozens of posts indicating that the only reason an awesome recruit doesn't end up at OSU is because Meyer doesn't want him. Blatant disregard for the reality that there are several top programs who can recruit nearly as well or even better than Meyer. Why they can't just be happy with the fact that Meyer is a fantastic recruiter who will always bring in a strong pipeline of talent is beyond me. I think that while mgoblog posters obssess in a crazy way over recruiting as well, they're a bit more realistic regarding expectations for the home team (aside from the fact that we always assume if a top recruit turns down Michigan for the SEC, it's because he's on the payroll).
I think a lot of 11W's problems would be solved if they moved to the points system for commenters that exists on mgoblog. Compared to other sites with comment sections (not just sports, but news, technology, etc), mgoblog does a tremendous job of weeding out trolls and assholes. As a result, a lot of times the comments section can be just as good of a read (or at least as entertaining of a read) as the actual blog post.
11W definitely has the content and blog post part down in a good way - they just need to find a way to lessen the flamebait going on in their comments section. If they did that, I would probably hit their site just as often as I visit mgoblog.
As a frequenter of both sites I find things I like and don't like about each. It is true that you have to keep up around here with the inside jokes or you will be lost reading not just the comments but the front page posts. 11W does have a point system now, you have to be a registered member to see it and you have to have 100 pts to vote and up/down votes do effect your totals, unlike here where only mods can move your points up or down.
I think both sites have their good and bad commenters and I think it's way more easy to notice the worst of the worst, especially the less time you spend on the site.
As to Hoke vs. Meyer, I feel like it's in your group of friends who get married and the one guy has a super hot model type wife, and your other friend has a girl next door nice pretty wife. All the guys openly know and have to admit they're totally jealous and are attracted to the super hot wife, but the other guy is happy in his marriage and really everyone kind secretly finds her attractive too. If they both are happy and satisfied, great, everyone should be jealous of both of the guys.
Thanks for the heads up about the points system - I didn't realize that had been implemented so my bad on that part of the observation. It's probably worth me signing up for a bit and seeing if I get as aggravated reading the comments once I'm a member. I visit the site about once/week now but maybe a little more frequency won't hurt.
You're definitely right about the wife comparison and I'll take it a step further. Some guys are a better fit with certain types of women. And I think OSU's current culture matches up better with the super-model type (Meyer) and the higher risk/higher reward environment that brings than Michigan's current culture does. Remember, we broke up with the girl next door after Carr retired and went after a hot trophy wife named RichRod. Unfortunately, we ended up with way too much drama and not enough sex so we had to go back to what works best for us.
I think there's more than one way to run a successful program, just like there's more than one way to build a Super Bowl champion or Stanley Cup winner. Clearly Meyer's method works but I think that Hoke's does as well. I think that year in, year out OSU will be more likely to win the NC than Michigan, but that Michigan will still get its fair share of wins (especially when the games are in Ann Arbor).
I see the Rivalry evolving into what LSU and Alabama have right now. They're usually the 2 best teams in the SEC, Alabama more often than not has the more successful season, but LSU is almost always Alabama's toughest opponent and biggest obstacle to a NC season.
my feeling aside, I do find their site to be decent
They're a solid blog. I'm not even going to say "for Ohio fans" because it doesn't really matter. They give solid analysis, while maintaining the proper amount of respect to hatred ratio for their rivals.
Overall, I find myself pleasantly surprised/impressed the few times I do venture there.
That's the thing about OSU: it's the only big school in the state, so its fanbase is a huge cross-section of the state. (Also, until recently, there were no pro sports teams in Columbus, so everyone in that metro area follows college sports, whereas in Michigan you see a lot of people who only follow the pros.) There are lots of well-educated, knowledgeable OSU fans. And then at the other end there's the riff-raff that wants to fight anyone wearing Michigan colors. The latter group gives them a bad name, but there is a decent segment of fans within the larger pool. I've found that OSU fans outside the state of Ohio, away from the insanely anti-UM echo chamber, are generally pretty nice.
I have to draw the line at your protests around the Muppets. Everything in every aspect of life is better when the Muppets are involved. I reached this conclusion once and for all after I saw the You Tube clips of different Muppet characters watching the famous "2 Girls, 1 Cup" video a few years ago.
OT: but has anyone else heard rumors about Jerry Montgomery? OU sources saying he is a viable option and he might have already interviewed for the job.
Who exactly are you hearing this from?
He is mentioned in a SB Nation article.
Also on LandThieves and their Rivals board.
I think he'll stay. He deserves a raise given how instrumental he's been to recruiting.
Nevermind I found this...
EDIT: too late
program upgrade, so hopefully UM just pays him a little more and keeps him.
Yeah, I can't see why he would leave for the same position unless he LOVES oklahoma or something. I think it would be a slight blow to us if we lose him. He has been a good recruiter that has easily connected to the kids. I say give him a pay raise if oklahoma comes knockin at his door!
*plugs ears* lalalalala I can't hear you lalalalala
Thanks for posting that sir is a good read indeed.
I've been waiting for someone to post this. I thought it was really interesting. The one thing that's irritating is the end when they link to "Urban's second year crap".
Urban's second year seems pretty relevent. The author is comparing third year Michigan coaches and finding some unwelcome trends from his perspective. I would expect an OSU site to include their defense against this trend with a similar trend that works in their favor.
I didn't say it was irrelevant. I totally expected something like that, I just think it would've been a better comparison if they did OSU's 2nd year head coaching success.
Coaches name, record and year in bold indicates a Big Ten Championship. A * denotes a National Championship.
I came up with
Name 2nd Year Record Year
Hale 8-3 1903
Sweetland 8-2-2 1905
Herstein 7-2-1 1907
Wilce 5-2 1914
Williaman 5-2-1 1930
Schmidt 7-1 1935
Paul Brown 9-1 1942
Widdoes 7-2 1945
Fesler 6-3 1948
Woody Hayes 6-3 1952
Earle Bruce 9-3 1980
John Cooper 8-4 1989
Jim Tressel* 14-0 2002
Combined second year record 99-28-4
This hasn't even gotten 5 upvotes yet? I know they are worthless and all, but just ceremoniously upvote this, seriously.
I thought it was really interesting. The one thing that's irritating is the end when they link to "Urban's second year crap".
It's an OSU blog. Of course that's how they're going to end it.
I guess I should have specified a little more. I don't feel like they compared apples to apples. They sat down and compared Brady Hoke's upcoming year to all of U of M's coaches 3rd year. Then they go with "Urban's track record" of year 2 results, rather than comparing Urban's upcoming year to that of OSU's past coaches in year 2.
Comment on 11W board: "Gardner might be more suited to what Hoke wants his team to do, but he isn't nearly as explosive a player as DRob was. So, although the personnel might fit the offense better, the offense will be easier to defend."
Well Shoelace did gash them for 120 yards in the first half of this years iteration of the game. So I can see why they may have that opinion, howeva I would argue (and probably most Michigan fans will agree) that the offense was much more predictable with Shoelace at the helm. It's hard to see the team regressing too much on that side of the ball once the young OL get's some experience early on in the season. Only 283 days until we find out for sure.
Keep in mind that over half of those yards were on a play where he got lit up by 2 guys 8 yards downfield and the equalization of their force enabled him to stay up. While it otherwise was a nice half, we werent exactly steamrolling them on a consistent basis.
Moreover, let's not hide the fact that Denard never shredded a good, athletic defense. He was exactly what we needed to prevent from losing 8 games per year, but the predictability of defending against a QB that couldnt throw 15 yards downfield is what made us unable to take that next step on offense....even when RR was still here.
Well *bleep*, 2013 is going to be terrible. I can't imagine the MGoMeltdowns to erupt in the aftermath of a 4-8 season.
So you discount the long carry he had because "over half of those yards were on a play where he got lit up by 2 guys 8 yards downfield and the equalization of their force enabled him to stay up." I think if you look at any explosive runner they have those games where they may not be churning away 100 yards on the ground, but they nevertheless end up with 100 yards. It would be like taking away Barry Sanders runs because when he wasn't going for 80 yards to the house he was getting 1, -1, 3 and 5 yards on the previous 4 carries. I don't understand the logic there. I wouldn't say we were steamrolling them, but to discount that run doesn't make sense.
I am also not sure how Denard was the reason we avoided 8 loss seasons every year. That makes it seem like the rest of Michigan's team the last two seasons was a pile of talentless crap. I don't think that's fair. If you were going to argue that something helped UM avoid 8 loss seasons, I would say that's the defensive turn around.
The only thing that stopped our offense in 2010 was the lack of an offense capable of scoring when in the red zone. We couldn't make field goals and we couldn't operate within a shortened field. Rich Rod was not a spread "throw it around" guy. He liked to run the ball from spread formations. It just never worked for us. We were better off never getting inside the 20 yard line. It was by no means on Denard's arm that we were unsuccessful. Turnovers never helped us that year either, or a defense that was about the worst in Michigan history.
Defend =/= prepare
Yes, the playbook may be less dynamic...but trying to defend it on gameday is another story...especially once we have the personnel.
I'm not sure it makes that much sense. With a more reliable passer who looks like he can drop back, see over defenders/scramble and make throws, a better running attack and a QB who is a threat to run it would seem to be much more for a defense to consider.
It was sarcasm. I didn't think the /s was necessary.
"That means a lot more Hoke guys and far fewer RichRod ones stolen from Bowling Green or Purdue."
But...it got me thinking. Do you know the history of old OSU coaches, other than Woody? Do you care?
They are obsessed down there, aren't they?
Woody- 1951-1978.Fired for punching player and not apologizing. Reading "BO" I gathered he would of keep his job but said he "didn't do it "(possible diabetes according to Bo)
Bruce- 1979-1987. Fired for not being Woody.
Cooper- 1988-200. Fired for losing to Michigan.
Tressel- 2001-2010. Fired for getting caught (still got full retirement).
Looking at the site they don’t have a long history of coaching legacy. Only a handful of coaches lasted over five years. J. Ryder(1892-1898/5yrs) J. Wilce (1913-1928/16yrs), s. Willaman (1929-1933/5yrs) F. Schmidt(1934-1940/7yrs) other than that...?
Jeez, they seem to spend a lot more time writing about us than we spend writing about them.
Sounds to me like 11 Warriors is quietly becoming a quality "MgoBlog" rival in many ways. Despite our mocking of their fan base the posters there (by Ohio standards) are fairly intellegent and usally reasoned in their thinking. Recently they scored the Brandon interview and now this excellent analysis.
Could this be the start of the second "10 Year War"? Only this time we're fighting it on the Blogosphere.......
Yes, and it will rage until one of the 11W bloggers punches a Clemson blogger. It will be an ending fit for a Shakespeare piece.
Read the comment section, it's awful. The post may be well thought out but the responses are far from it.
On 11 warriors, this is the case 100% of the time. They have a handful of decent commenters but the majority of them would fit right in on RCMB.
Not like our commenters here, who are awesome.
Typical MGoBlog comment:
"Keep in mind that over half of those yards were on a play where he got lit up by 2 guys 8 yards downfield and the equalization of their force enabled him to stay up. While it otherwise was a nice half, we werent exactly steamrolling them on a consistent basis. "
Relatively typical 11 Warriors comment:
"Thanks Ramzy for making my computer screen throw up!"
Also this one just for fun:
"The arrogance/self-righteousness on the MGoBlog thread is unbearable..."
We are not arrogant. We are just all around better human beings than they are.
The comment before that has an 11W staff member (!?) posting a blockquoted comment from here with "LOLOLOLOL Delusional scUM fan is delusional." added as analysis. Can anyone remember Ace, Heiko, Seth, or any of their predecessors writing like that? That's mildly embarrassing for a professional writing on the site he apparently gets paid to write for.
I'd still add that most of the actual writers for the site are good/very good, and I've read a few of their diary equivalents and came away impressed.
I agree it is hard to generalize because most of the stuff is decent, but that reminds me of when one of their writers basically called Kalis and Strobel fags, or something to that effect in a front page recruiting update. Tim called them out on Twitter for it.
So the answer is no, I cannot see a single staff member of MGoBlog writing like that.
For anyone who didn't look, Ramzy did post an actual reply to YoBoMoLloRoHo's post on this thread, and did it on MGoBlog in a way I'd hope to see MGoBlog staff reply on another site, if they do at all.
I comment here 100x more than I comment there.
This is very interesting. May I ask why, Jon? Just curious.
I did say "by Ohio standards".
And I'm sure they had a good laugh at our expense if they happened to read much of what was written during and immediately after last Tuesday's debacle.
You can hate me for it, but I did kind of laugh at this:
Hoke back for thirds.
That statement has likely been used before.
I accidently upvoted you, meant to downvote. Seriously, a Hoke fat joke? Super creative!
I'm ready for the second Ten Year War.
Me too, especially if it begins this coming season and we go 10-0.
11W had to insert this barb, although unfounded, in an attempt to avoid the clear differentiation with Urban.
Hoke has steadily rebuilt our foundation while Urban torched a group of non-performers over the last 15 months to open spots. He has always driven for short-term results over program solidification.
Hoke has steadily rebuilt our foundation while Urban torched a group of non-performers over the last 15 months to open spots.
Can you explain, give names and/or quantify the non performers over the last 15 months that Urban has torched as to open spots on OSU roster? Just curious...
"Roster management" wasn't intended to be a barb. New coach/philosophy accelerates normal attrition. Torched is too strong of a word.
It's so funny that you only have 3 points on here. I mean I doubt you comment often and thus it makes sense. Just makes me chuckle to have more points than you.
Clarke, Gambrell, Klein, Williams and Crowell were pushed out.
Undoubtedly they had imperfect behavioral records, but expendable compared to starters like Mewhart and Stoneburner. The pattern of rehabbing starters and booting subs was in effect at UF.
I have zero issue with dismissing kids for serious issues or not renewing kids for a 5th year, and Hoke might give too many chances, but OSU seems to dismiss only non-starters.
I wouldn't exactly say that they all had imperfect behavioral records because that wasn't the case with Conner Crowell. Also, I wouldn't use the term "non performeres" to described the listed student-athletes performances. Do you mean to say players on the depth chart? Maybe one, Tyrone Williams, could fit in that catergory but not all. Lastly, if you don't have an issue for dismissing kids for serious issues then this list of names should probably be shrunk down to a few names because they have problems not because they are "non performeres" getting torched/pushed.
- DerJuan Gambrell- Dismissed after misdermeanor charges of assult, menacing and unlawful restraint after campus police responded to an incident at an on-campus dormitory and violation of team rules as a freshman.
- Dominic Clarke- Dismissed after drinking and driving only to be followed up by shooting a BB gun at students from Neil Ave tower. (You mess with the students you deserved to be kicked off the team)
- Klein- Once released, was allowed back on the team. Buried in the depth chart at LB then injured himself following the Purdue game. As far as I know he's still on the team but if Meyer torched/pushed him off the team this would be new to me. Personally I don't think he should be allowed on the team but my judgement and Meyer don't coincide...
- Tyrone Williams- Played at WR, got two helmet stickers then pushed off the team due to violation of team rules. Not sure what rules were broken but I think you could make an argument for Meyer pushing him off the team.
- Conner Crowell- Injured himself coming into Ohio State. "Crowell was in Columbus for two seasons and following an injury in high school, he never really had a chance to show the type of player he was." So should the school keep an open spot for someone who may never get a chance to play because he wasn't cleared by the trainers? Or would you rather they keep an open spot that could go to someone else? In all fairness, use the open spot for another player but honor the scholarship for the injured student athlete.
Not looking for an arguement, just wanted understanding.
Edit: Klein graduates this summer...
Do you have any examples of starters who deserve to have been dismissed? Mewhort and Stoneburner peed in an alley and then ran when the cops turned a flashlight on them.
Stupid? Yes. Worthy of dismissal from the team? Well I would say a DUI would be about 100 times worse and I do believe Fitz remained on the team following his punishment.
The pair were suspended from team activities over the summer, were fined (their scholarships for their summer classes were pulled) and I'm sure ran until the never wanted to see another alley in their lives.
I know that supposedly it's always only about the money, but that's the only reason Montgomery would make a lateral move.
It was a great read until you find yourself trailing into the comments... or more appropriately, the common denominator of human intelligence. I felt dirty giving the site another hit, and subsequently their advertisers another reason to sponsor that filthy dirty site.
I reiterate that it was a well written article, grammatically sound in the modern American english lexicon, and foreshadowing better days ahead for this prized rivalry.
You're kind of displaying the the same LCD trait when you call it "that filthy dirty site". They do a decent job, and a lot of our comments aren't really worthy of the Pulitzer. The goal of this site is not to enlighten, neither is theirs.
Cats / Kate Upton / Jersey sales in Ohio / Freep / Lloyd Brady / etc.
How DARE you bad-mouth Lloyd Brady! Is nothing sacred anymore?
Here is the combined record of Michigan coaches who stayed 3 or more years prior to Hoke - one table goes back to Ferbert, and the other merely back to Kipke:
|TREND SINCE FERBERT|
|TREND SINCE KIPKE|
The cumulative shift from the second to third year is definitely upward, and particularly in more recent times, it has meant about +1 in the win column on average (with as high as +3 in individual cases). Interestingly, there is a slight dip in the 4th year and some resurgence in the fifth, for those who could be included in that, or at least that's the typical trend, it seems.
The cumulative shift from the second to third year is definitely upward, and particularly in more recent times, it has meant about +1 in the win column on average (with as high as +3 in individual cases).
I count +4 in one case:
1996: 8 wins
1997: 12 wins
That's the one I meant and I muffed the math, as I realized when I did specific differentials just now. My fail.
Interestingly, going back to Kipke, that is the biggest improvement. Schembechler and Rodriguez both were +2, and Crisler and Elliott were +1 from the second to third year.
Good 'ol Dutch Ferbert doesn't get enough credit IMO. He should have at least something named after him at Michigan. He won the first ever conference championship here and had a great record.
Both 11W and the Ozone have some good pieces covering Ohio football and basketball. I couldn't say definitively, but generally, the head writers / proprietors of many of the major college sports blogs are reasonable, although they're fully fans of their home school. If you think about it, the same is generally the case for Brian, Matt Hinton, Dylan over at umhoops, TomVH, etc., along with Ramzy at 11W & Gerdeman at the Ozone. I used to link to Gerdeman's posts about Michigan every week during the season.
There is one comment in the 11W piece by "M Man" which could have a huge impact next year: Michigan has an extremely favorable schedule:
Date Opponent [home games in CAPS]
Aug. 31 CENTRAL MICHIGAN
Sept. 7 NOTRE DAME
Sept. 14 AKRON
Sept. 21 at Connecticut
Sept. 28 Bye Week
Oct. 5 MINNESOTA* (HC)
Oct. 12 at Penn State*
Oct. 19 INDIANA*
Oct. 26 Bye Week
Nov. 2 at Michigan State*
Nov. 9 NEBRASKA*
Nov. 16 at Northwestern*
Nov. 23 at Iowa*
Nov. 30 OHIO STATE*
As I look at this, and consider how ND should be worse than last year, MSU should be worse than last year, and Nebraska and Ohio are at home, I wonder if Michigan can win all of their games all the way through Iowa. This would give Michigan the entire season to improve, including:
- Gardner getting things down, especially timing with the WR corp.
- Green the time to develop at RB
- OL & DL time to develop
- LB time to solidify
- the Secondary time to develop,
I actually could see Hoke having the luxury of holding certain plays back for Ohio, and really doing a certain amount of game planning for Ohio. I just don't know how good Ohio will really be next year.
I really am looking forward to the season next year.
"I actually could see Hoke having the luxury of holding certain plays back for Ohio"
Nope. You will see the full power of our offense unleashed during the 38-7 victory over Iowa the week before. And, now convinced that all the gadgets, trick plays and formation wrinkiles practiced relentlessly all year DO work, Borges will promptly put them back away for another year; content he has screwed up yet another Michigan practice week for Ohio.
You had to remind me. Although, I'm not sure how much of a difference it would have made.
Is there actual weight for Hoke leaving for the NFL or is that just bullshit Meyer is throwing around at recruits ?
Disclaimer: I love Hoke and how much he knows and respects our traditions and lifted us from the ashes. However, while he undestands the defensive line, his head coaching abilities and thus his success, revolve purely around putting great coaches around him, developing upstanding young men and attracting recruits with his passion and charisma. These attributes ain't really what your average NFL owner cares about. Brady Hoke is not an x's and o's guy and you need to know how to wear a headset and take control in the NFL. I don't think he'd want to leave, but if he did, I'm not sure any smart pro team would take him.
As a general rule, if you're looking for inside info on Michigan's head coach, you'd get it at a Michigan site, not an OSU site. If they're the only ones reporting it . . . you get the point.
Does anyone have a link for an OSU site reporting Hoke to the NFL? The first I heard of this rumor is here, where a recruit mentioned it and then it was instantly assumed that Urban was spreading dirty lies.
The only Hoke to the NFL topic I've seen on 11W was one linking to mgoblog and asking why it was being taken as fact that Urban has been spreading such a rumor.
I do not believe any reputable OSU site has had a word to say on the matter.
And this was definitely an interesting read.
However, here's something I found odd. Most of what he bases his hypothesis on is how Michigan coaches do in Year Three, and the whole article seems to lead up to an OH SNAP moment where he says Michigan coach Year Three will conflict with Urban Meyer Year Two.
Interesting that he's looking at Urban Meyer Year Two's, and not OSU coach Year Two's.
If he's going to apply the line of thinking about how Michigan coaches do in Year Three, shouldn't he look at how OSU coaches do in Year Two to draw a more logical conclusion?
Probably. Urban's success in year two is probably a more compelling read for Ohio State fans, though.
Well yeah, you write to your audience. But also OSU coaches' 2nd year doesn't really have a consistent pattern and Hoke's 3rd year isn't a large sample size.
Exactly. I don't have a problem with comparing the two, even if they don't follow the exact same line of reasoning. And you do write to your audience. Ohio State fans want to hear why Urban will have success against Michigan next season.
11W is a good site to go to if you want information on Ohio State sports. Just don't read the comment sections.
I found it to be an interesting read
Just do yourself a favor and stop reading once the article ends
DON'T SCROLL DOWN!!! Nothing good comes of this!
Don't know if anyone has looked at this, but Hoke's year 3 is probably going to include more youth and inexperience than Lloyd's in 1997. They had some young guys on the O-line, but that group produced a bunch of top caliber pros and was solid from tackle to tackle. I hope we have that with the 2013 O-line, but no way to know that until they start playing the games. Griese was a 5-year QB who had more games under his belt going into 1997 than Gardner does going into 2013. D-line had a proven difference maker in Glenn Steele. Can QWash transform into a man of steel between now and Sept.? They also had that Charles Woodson guy in the secondary and contributing in the kicking game and as a WR, too. That's a hole not easily filled.
Still, one can hope that it all comes together and the aggregate parts produce a collectively great result.
Very interesting read. Kinda upset looking through the comments section to see all the Ohio commenters referencing the term "scUM". I thought that was usually a term used by little brother and to Ohio we were TTUN. Either way, Urban Liar trumps everything as best name