Was not expecting 7 more. I assume this is due to the combo of back-dating '13 early enrollees and attrition?
well that's just, like, your opinion, man
Was not expecting 7 more. I assume this is due to the combo of back-dating '13 early enrollees and attrition?
Sounds like our long snapper might not have a scholarship after all.
Pictures or it didn't happen.
I've heard this rumor a few times, but I thought we came up with the conclusion that wasn't true and he did indeed have a full ride.
We appear to have scholarships to spare, and so we would pull one from a guy that we've already promised one to?
Sure, that makes sense.
Depth isn't really as big of a concern anymore, so I HIGHLY doubt we take 7 more. I'd say 3-4 is a more realistic number.
Well there are a few guys leaving the team early, either for transfers or the chance at playing in the nfl. For example, Ricardo Miller is graduating early and will transfer to a Florida school so that opens a spot etc... Maybe Lewan is going to the NFL?
TAKE IT BACK!!! Lewan isn't going...PLEASE
Would be nice if he stayed... I agree!
It seems like it might work out for him.
It didnt work out for Lattimore...
Marcus lattimore was only a Sophmore. He had to come back
You have to be three years removed from high school to declare for the draft...
How about Barkley, he may have dropped out of top 10, would have been top 5 last year.
I doubt he would have been top 5 last year since he would have still been behind Luck and RG3, but he would have gone to Miami at 8 or 9 instead of Tannehill. However, I still think you're right, since I wouldn't be surprised if he drops out of the first round this year. He's not a top pick talent, and the teams at the end of the first round don't need him. Maybe somebody trades up to get him at the end of the first round, but only then.
Te'o probably wasn't a lock to be a top-10 draft choice last year; Lewan only has so many guys he could pass. And with the salary structure in place, his signing bonus won't be as dramatically different if he's drafted #3 or #9.
In general, the 85 scholarships is the big limiting factor, and you can only enroll 25 per class in the fall. To get more, you need to have early enrollees. With the Big Ten, they'll let you go over the "cap" as long as you can show where the scholarships are coming from. Believe Minn had a class of 32 a couple of years ago.
I'd be surprised if we took 6 linemen this year, or if we took Treadwell, or if we took another DT, or if we took 7 more players and none was a linebacker.
Why would you be surprised if we took Treadwell? I understand surprise to GET him now, but do you seriously feel if he would be turned away? I disagree. Think coaches feel he would be a perfect fit.
I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not. If you are it's pretty funny. I'm more than certain the coaches would love to take the #1 receiver in the nation that they heavily recruited for so long. I would be surprised if he ended up as a part of our class at this point. He seems to be looking for something other than what Michigan offers him.
he was just taking issue with semantics. If Treadwell wanted in, we'd take him, but it's not looking great he'd come. The way the original person had it almost sounded like even if he wanted in, we wouldn't take him.
I probably shouldn't introduce him to my friend The Grammar and Punctuation Nazi, then. It would be an epic battle, but they could be so evenly matched they'd be locked in a stalemate for all eternity, like Goliad and Stormo.
Look - you're the one who used the confusing verbiage. You said you'd be surprised if we took Treadwell, which certainly implies to me that it would be the coaches making that decision, not Treadwell.
It makes it worse when you come back defensive when you were the one who made the initial mistake. You look like a jerk when you respond that way to a person who misunderstood you're difficult to understand point. Just say you worded it wrong, and move on.
Actually, I was implying we'd kidnap him. Sorry if it confuses everybody, or if you mistook it for being pissy. I thought it was lighthearted. I even complimented him and upvoted him. Didn't think everybody around here was so sensitive. My bad.
NBD. Just wanted a clearer understanding what you meant. Trust me, my job I get yelled at constantly by the frantic people.
Still love your avatar, turtle.
Anyone else hear about the rumors about Burrows being unhappy with the addition of Conley into the OSU class? Maybe he is the mystery visitor?
I thought Skipper was the mystery visitor. We can have Gardner and the Skipper, too!
Unhappy and "I'm going to decommit because I'm afraid of a little competition" are two different things.
Not necessarily on the interwebz.
Conley committed to them as a WR primarily IIRC.
Its been reported, multiple times, that Hoke is only taking 5 linemen in this class.
There have been reports that 6 may be in play now. Sam and TomVH have both mentioned it. I am guessing that depends on what Lewan does though.
Likely has nothing to do with Lewan. Either way, Lewan will be gone after next year. These kids will almost certainly redshirt - true freshmen OL only play in the most dire of situations.
I wonder if there is any truth to the rumor that Lewan will be replaced by some Voltron-esque uber-offensive lineman. If so, that would explain why the staff is so hellbent on signing at least 5.
He didn't think they would get 7 more, but said the flexibility is there if they happen to need it.
That's why I wrote "can take UP to 7 more."
Has to be some major attrition expected to jump up to almost 7 along to go with some guys coming in January. I like the adjustments the coaching staff made from last year in getting more aggressive towards the end, not putting all their eggs in the same basket, and also having fall back options.
22 commits now
6 potential EE (3 count as part of 2012) = Class effectively currently sits at 19
Miller gone = Class effectively at 18
Lewan possibly gone = class effectively at 17
Major attrition not required. Only barrier is the 85 total scholly limit.
said he has left the team too
O yeah, forgot about Hopkins.
You probably know about this better than me. I honestly don't remember last years numbers, but as an example: if we took the max 25 players last year and none were early enrollees, then we couldn't list any more 2013 kids in the 2012 class. I didn't pay attention to last years final numbers, but I'm sure we had some room left, and/or some EEs that year, so we should have room to backdate a handful this year, but how many depends on the previous years class.
What I'm wondering is: how does losing a redshirt player like Ringer affect the 2012 numbers? Thinking if we lost him during his redshirt year would that mean we took one less 2012 player? If so we might be able to backdate 4.
he's gone, given the projections of his likely draft position.
Not surprisingly, I don't like either of those options.
If three of those last names are in Green, Treadwell, and McQuay I will be very happy.
Sheeeeit... I'd be happy with 1 of the 3.
Ok, 1 = Happy, 2 = Ecstatic, and all 3 is the best holiday present EVER!
now make more sense. Well, this adds a lot of interest to a process that seemed essentially done with 6 months ago, except for the 2-3 five stars we were trying to land.
FWIW, I have heard rumors about two guys currently on the roster who might not be around in the spring. (This does not include Lewan or Miller.)
Wilkens and paskorz??? Sorry for speculating..
There's a bit of chatter that Delano Hill is attending Michigans practice today
Is it anybody you thought would be a good football player?
I would not particularly miss the two guys I've heard rumors about. Not that I have anything against them, but . . . meh.
Magnus, are those rumors regarding a possible career ending injury to a LB currently on the roster?
Well, that too, but that wasn't the guy I was talking about. I was talking about non-injury related issues.
I've heard rumors that you're fat. The rumor monger will be unveiled in the Spring.
speculation and rumors to be discussed? What will we do until spring?
It's no rumor, man. That dude there makes fat people puke thinking about what he looks like naked.
Spoiler alert: it's His Dudeness.
It looks like we had a short Winter.
It seems like with Lacy, Na'ty Rogers, and Hunt all rescheduling their planned visit, I think they're scared Dawson's going to commit and don't want to burn their current bridges visiting Michigan for a slot that may or may not exist.
Dawson will probably take his visits to Alabama and Ohio State. As has been said many times before, he has been through a lot on and off the field, and in addition to all that, he has taken a lot of criticism to try to get those visits. The good money seems to be that he recommits to Michigan after those visits.
We may also take Dan Skipper, because Hoke apparently believes it's impossible to be too tall.
Lacy and Hunt have HS football playoff games this weekend, according to what I've read. That'd be a more plausible reason for their absence this weekend.
Lacy also just reaffirmed his commitment to UCLA. I think that one's over
Let me get this straight; You are criticizing Hoke about potential and what qualities are best to make good lineman? Dude, that’s hysterical.
i don't think his comment was unfair. it was a throwaway comment at the end of his message and i actually thought it was funny. and i think you'll find that there aren't too many "6'10" elite linemen in history.
There aren't that many 6'10 people in general, especially people whose sport of choice is not basketball, either...
darn straight it was throwaway, should have been thrown away before it was used.
can we just give two to both treadwell and green?
And he's not dumb.
One difference is that the pay scale now creates less of an incentive to come back to improve from top 10 to top 3 because there is less of a difference now than there was in long's case.
Jake Ryan? I highly doubt it champ. Next year yes, this year he wouldn't even be drafted.
And how soon you forget that Jake Long had the same situation in front of him and he turned down the NFL and became the first pick with even more guaranteed money the next year. Gotta remember Lewan can't go to the senior bowl, so that might hurt his stock while others rise. Lewan staying is very probable.
Well if we were taking so many I would like to see michigan grab..
1. Derrick Green
2. David Dawson
3. L. McQuay / D. Hill / R. Dawson
4. L. McQuay / D. Hill / R. Dawson
5. Linebacker...who would people like to see here?
6. Offensive/Defensive Lineman?
3. D. Hill as CB
4. McQuay (after he sees how awesome our defense is against South Carolina)
5. E.J. Levenberry
6. Shoot the moon- Treadwell.
Isn't this just the difference between "can" and "will"? Teams, thanks to medical redshirts and early admissions, can often find ways to cram in an extra recruit or two. (Except when they're SEC teams -- in which case, an extra seven or ten). To take more than 25 this year would just make next year trickier? Or is there some assumption here that attrition will be greater than expected?
I would say simplest answer is until we win something and Hoke's first class graduates recruiting will be tricky every year.
They have urgency and seem to be taking the best now. I like it. We need more talent plain and simple. They are trying to go get some.
Man I just wish I was one of the coaches friends, so I didnt have to sit here on Mgoblog and speculate sooo daaamnn muuuch.
My gut feeling:
Yes: Green, McQuay, Dawson , Hill
Maybe a surprise Mac-level pick up when the Treadwell doesn't sign.
What do we look like as far as nose tackle depth? Pipkins is only big name nose tackle that I can remember getting. More 4/5 star nose tackles please! Mattison talks about rotating players, but with the lack of a pass rush I'm concerned about the talent he's had available so far.
We are going after a new recruit named Jay-nard Bostwick..looks like he is our best option if we are really trying to get him to come play at michigan.
On another note... FINALLY GOT THAT 100 POINTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
We have Hurst in this class and probably Bryan Mone in the next class.
Poggi is definitely not projecting at NT. He might end up there, but that's not where the coaches are recruiting him.
The consensus says we need another Linebacker..Who though? I would like to grab Reschke, but that doesn't seem possible. WHO are the best options that the MgoCommunity like?
What happened to mathis? I know he likes making flippy floppy but any idea if the coaches have been in contact with him?
Michigan stopped recruiting him.
Any chance he gets a call or are we set on the dl?
I don't think we're completely set on the DL necessarily, but I don't think we'll get back in contact.
imo- even better would be to have alquadin muhammad or montravius adams decide our way.
maybe we get lucky and he flip-flops back at the right time, say early feb. seems like that is where he ends up, however, he is favoring at nsd.
sorry. We ned to find a suitable replacement as stated months ago.
If he comes to Michigan and catches balls, I don't care how many times he changes his mind.
I know the topic will get some pissy reactions on the board, but gotta ask:
Would the attrition of 3-4 more schollies indicate the staff is actively squeezing out the non-performers? Marginal talents like Miller and Hopkins already exited. Schollies are a year-to-year award, although aggressive roster management is ethically questionable.
There are a dozen or so guys that have been bypassed by 2+ younger guys. Seem like a lot of candidates would find more playing time at MAC or Big East schools.
1. Hopkins was getting playing time. Why the staff would want to 'squeeze out' someone who was somewhat productive on the field is beyond me.
2. I don't know why, if kids were getting passed on the depth chart and looking to leave, your first reaction is to assume its the staff telling them to haul ass. That would seem to be in the kids' best interest, no? What about that would make you think it's the staff pulling the trigger and not the kids?
For 10 months the discussion has been 24-25 spots. Now Webb reports 7 or a new goal of 28-29. Maybe 1-2 boo boos will negate next season.
Our frosh performed very well at numerous spots and some seasoned guys were non-factors, which changes the depth chart and indicates older guys won't see playing time next year.
I guess the question of "squeezing" (ie, brutal honesty of no playing time and helping guys finding a better roster situation) is taboo around here.
There's a big difference between "Hey kid, you're not in our plan moving forward, so you won't have a scholarship next year" and "Hey kid, you're not in our plan moving forward, so if you'd like PT you might want to transfer but if you choose to stay you're welcome to finish out your degree."
The former is taboo around here. The latter (although I doubt it happens much) is fine, because the choice is up to the kid. I just don't think it happens much, because I doubt the coaches would try to push away a healthy, eligible football player for a recruit. Some kids don't do much of anything, and are then needed as juniors and seniors.
This is a utopian blog. Our players never do bad things and our coaches would never do a thing like squeeze an unproductive player out. Other schools bad. Michigan good.
FWIW, there were rumors that Rocko Khoury was sort of squeezed out the door last year. I think this off-season will perhaps give us further evidence of what this coaching staff's approach is to guys who aren't contributing. Right now it's too early to tell, though.
But Khoury had completed four years and had his degree, correct? That's common. Same thing happened with Terrence Robinson. Denying a fifth year is accepted everywhere, but getting "squeezed" after less than four years on campus is a different story.
I did not hear that Terrence Robinson was squeezed out the door. From what I heard, he was just mentally ready take his degree and move on.
Yes, Khoury had completed his degree.
Magnus, can you elaborate any further on these rumors?
It's nothing particularly insidious. I just heard that the coaches told Khoury that he would be sitting on the bench again in 2012, and they thought he would be better off moving on from football.
Bell wasn't invited to practice due to roster limits...that is some evidence... though that has not happened with students the current staff recruited.
I'm sure it's the players and not the coaches making the decisions to head elsewhere. Otherwise, guys like Mike Jones and Brandin Hawthorne and probably a handful of other kids would be gone already. The coaches don't have to give a kid a 5th year, but they'll let a kid stay for four if he wants to. Guys like Hopkins and Miller felt there was a better situation for them elsewhere, as many kids do at most schools every year.
Some kids (like Jones and Hawthorne) stick it out at Michigan because being there is more important than PT. Others feel they can get the most out of their college experience by transferring somewhere they can play. I don't blame them in either instance.
insight. I am sure the coaches "do right by the kids" as much as possible.
Getting guys to see the reality of no playing time and their subsequent exit is usually best for the kid and the team. Many former players are playing a lot elsewhere.
They HAVE to give a kid four years, as long as he stays eligible. Signing on the dotted line goes both ways.
Michigan and several other schools just adopted the 4-year guarantee for NSD in Feb. I don't believe UM made it retroactive to prior classes. Freely correct if wrong.
Most schools still offer only 1-year schollies and some schools push out kids (my neighbor's kid here in Atlanta was told to declare his boo boo as career-ending or find a new SEC school).
PLEASE DENARD DON'T LEAVE SO EARLY
Doesn't it kind of screw up future classes when you take 29 players in one year? Shouldn't they ease their way back to full strength instead of doing it with one class?
having these extra scholarships is the coaching staff can bank them if next year looks promising with players/needs or if they have some player/needs in this class they can use them up, good problem to have.
All of the offerees are very capable of contributing (ie, we're not signing marginal guys) and 2014 class has minimal traction (ie, 5 stars are not clamoring for a spot). Those unused schollies just go to walk-ons for a year to meet 85 requirement.
There will be attrition before 2014, not to mention guys denied a 5th year, so plenty of spots for elite kids in 2014 and 2013 kids can redshirt
Roster needs bolstering as soon as possible with the thin talent from 2010 and 2011.