So I saw this topic discussed on GBW and I thought I would bring it over here. When you think of Michigan Basketballs resurgence under Coach Belein, what player comes to mind?
Michigan Basketball resurgence
Zak and Stu, to me, were the turning point in terms of player leadership and being the first scheme players to play. Those two...man, we would not be where we are today without them.
However, I also believe David Merritt and C.J. Lee were instrumental in making the NCAA Tournament that first year we made it - they really were steadying hands on a fairly young team, and I think were the first to buy into Beilein's system and really let it grow into its own.
Really, Zach and Stu? Are you fucking crazy. How could you possibly argue that they lead the resurgance!? What about Burke and Hardaway, Caris and Stauskas, or McGarry and GRIII. It wasn't until the last 3 season that Belein finally achieved consistent success, unless you are saying that 9-9, 7-11, and 9-9 BIG records are considered part of the resurgance.
re-sur-gence : a growth or increase that occurs after a period without growth or increase
Years before the three you mentioned: (BIG): 4-12, 8-8, 8-8, 5-13 with no NCAA appearances.
Years you mentioned: 2 NCAA Appearances with 2 wins.
I would say that constitutes a growth or increase in success.
I'll debate that. 3 out of the last 4 Amaker teams had records of 23-11, 22-11, and 22-13, compared to Beilein's 21-14 teams that got in the tournament. We know the selection process is often times suspect, and for some reason the NCAA selection committee just didn't pick Amaker's teams. You can hardly point to the Stu and Novak years as evidence of the resurgence, unless you are referring to their final year, with a freshman Burke and Sophmore Tim Hardaway Jr, who were much more influental than Stu and Novak on that team.
Just stop. Amaker's best teams were dreadful to watch with cupcake schedules. Belein has only missed the tourney twice since he's been here and Zak and Stu were huge parts of his early success.
I'm not debating whether or not Belien is a better coach than Amaker, or whether or not Zack and Stu contributed to Belein's success early on, I am challenging the assertion that they led the resurgence in Michigan basketball. This is simply not true, it wasn't until 2011, when Burke arrived and in Tim Hardaway Jr's second year, that the team finally experienced an actual resurgence, winning the BIG.
The op was arguing that Zach Novak is the player that comes to mind when he thinks of the Michigan resurgence under Belein. Burke is the player that comes to mind for me, and I explained why. I don't understand why this is a controversial issue.
Subs. Subs come to mind.
and no weird guys.
in my mind there are only three true candidates: zack novak, darius morris and trey burke. i'm going to go under the assumption that trey burke still would have arrived at michigan even if novak and morris hadn't lead their team as far as they did. so for me, it's burke.
Don't leave out Stu.
As much as there are arguments for other players, like Novak, Trey Burke is the only correct answer.
Not really. Him and Sims were big parts of us getting back in the dance. Obvious answers are Novak and Burke maybe Darius.
Sims and Harris could have gone anywhere. They chose to play in Ann Arbor, which was not the "cool" place for elite recruits at the time. Both were ranked as four-stars by both Scout and Rivals.
DeShawn Sims and Manny Harris made it "cool" for elite recruits to take Michigan seriously again. They undid the ten years of shit that Chirs Webber and Ed Martin caused for the program.
As a Michigan fan, I feel indebeted to both Sims and Harris. They are as responsible as anyone for the "resurgence" of Michigan Wolverine basketball.
not in the sense that hes the only one I think of, just the first one, because I think of that 09 season, my senior year.
going into columbus. Motta passes on him, and look how the tables turned. . .OSU on the downslope with all that talent and we're on the rise. . .
Uh, Anthony Wright?
ZAK NOOOOOOOOOOVAK. WITH A THREE POINTER!!!!!!!! or Trey Burke, he was sorta good.
Everything changed after that shot!
Burke and Novak T2.
Not sure why, but those 2 guys. Stu would be up there also.
Trey Burke took the program from a fringe tourney team who hoped to be moderately competitive in the B1G, to....well we know what happened last year.
Longer answer - each class has been an evolution to help Michigan reestablish itself as a contender with each team more capable then the last. So each year their has been an important piece - Manny, Zack, Darius, Tim, Trey, Mitch.
But then again -----> TREY!!!!
...is epitomized by the staff's ability to find less heralded recruits and turn them into stars. Trey Burke goes from 3-star to Naismith and Wooden winner in 2 seasons. Love me some Novak/Stu, but Burke is the personification of "return to glory." (Sorry, Irish. [not really])
Mitch McGary when he committed.
Agreed. Since on team, we have on BIG title and one rim shot from another, and a run to ncaa title game in first attempt.
Or is it Ben Cronin?
I think I'll go with Trey...
You hafta remember where you've been to appreciate where you are.
Not a player, but I always think of Beilein himself. His ability to withstand of all of the guys on that list leaving the program, sometimes earlier than expected, and keep on winning is amazing.
If I had to choose an actual player, Blake McLimans
If I look at Beilein's time here as it has developed, I think early on the most prominent names to me are Manny Harris and David Merritt, which quickly seemed to herald the emergence of Stu Douglass and Zack Novak. After that, we pick up this guy named Tim Hardaway, Jr., then someone named Trey Burke. Jordan Morgan came on board as well, and he has been rewarded well for sticking around. It just seemed to get better from there, and it already seemed to be getting pretty good.
Not to be confused with Air Georgia
surprisingly good topic.
gotta be trey. he was on another level, talent wise, above manny, darrius, and timmy. when darius went pro this team's future was bleak, and though people had eased off beilein, there was not the eurphoria surrounding hiim that there is today, despite having just won a share of the B1G title. instead of backsliding we didnt do too bad with trey, as i recall...
manny comes to mind as well, but far differemt. we certainly needed him, but i remember his fighting with beilein as much as anything. i remember one critical benching in OT where beilein really showed that the inmates would not run the assylum. not to trash manny, though.
I always wonder 'what could have been?'
Zak Novak and Stu Douglass.
End of list.
Trey Burke marks the "return to greatness" and Jordan Morgan was there to see it all.
I think laid the ground work for Stu and Zak, showing what leadership was required to make a . I believe they were freshman that year with him when they first broke back into the tournament.
But I think we saw the true emergence under Zak and Stu showing the building over 4 years. I believe Trey leading the run last year was the glory, that we were returning to. I don't think he lead the return though, as huge freshman class that came in to support that run came before he broke out last year.
Oddly, we may look back and think of Jordan Morgan, purely because of longevity.
Yes. It feels like he has been around since the Ellerbe era.
I think Zack and Stu really.
I liked stu but gotta disagree here. Novak and him helped start the first wave of the return but not until McGary last year has the resurgence been real. Without him and Burke amd THJ got knocked out early. Think hard here and its obvious.
"hit hit hit hit hit hit hit hit hit hit." that's what he would yell while playing defense.
But in all seriousness, Josh Asselin.
Love Zack, but I think Trey has been this program's springboard.
and Carlton Brundidge. Thank you both for transferring.
Novak just for the type of players coach molds into something special, and trey burke for the success.
not the player.
one phrase comes to mind: ' Get the fuck off my court'
so I vote Morris, I guess. And man that game was awesome.
Wow....Burke was so good with his teammates that for a moment I forgot how good Morris was. Wish he stayed another few yrs.
Graham Brown. Without Graham, there is no McGary
Courtney Sims may have some words with you.
I think you could make a solid argument for Jordan Morgan. As was said in the JMo appreciation thread, he's a guy who wasn't supposed to get an offer, and yet has played a key role in Michigan basketball's return to prominence. Novak left before the program really hit its stride, and Burke grew what was already a growing wave to ridiculous levels. However, Morgan embodies a bit of each. He helped to start the wave, and is now making contributions WAY above his recruiting profile.
I'm surprised no one here has mentioned Tim Hardaway Jr. He played at a consistently high level last year. He was easily the most consistent player on the roster. Trey gets alot of the credit for last year, and he deserves credit. But lets not forget the plays proceeding his epic trey against Kansas. I think he was held scoreless in the first half of that game, possibly for a half of the VCU or directional dakota state game as well. He also had meltdowns that put us in rough spots last year (ex: first half vs IU at Crisler). Trey had a crazy talented roster to work with last year. But Tim was the unquestioned leader of that final four team. He put up solid numbers night in and night out. I cant think of too many times when he put us in a hole.
Peedi was pretty good also. It's taken a team effort and it's been fun to watch the rise. Hopefully we can sustain but the fight in these teams has been great. Beilein of course has been the constant through these last seasons.
Did he commit to us yet?
Don't forget about Tory Jackson
And Alex Legion
And Al Horford
And Patrick Beverley
Probably Zack and Stu, as mentioned, but also Darius Morris. He was the first big recruit Beilein signed, and we landed him out of L.A. We did that before we had a reputation for developing point guards, so it was a big leap of faith for him. He ended up being so good that Beilein redesigned his offense to mix in more ball-screen action and the rest is history.
Darius wasn't a big time recruit
To add to the point his offers were Portland,Washington St,and Wyoming
Morris was four stars, though not surprised if I'm wrong.
He was a four-star, top 100 guy. I'm pretty sure that offer list you posted is wrong.
As stated before I feel like Novak and Douglas will be who I always think of first. But Trey and Morris are close
McGary. The first elite big man weve had for 20 yrs.
Can't forget Zack Gibson! He and Zack Novak, the "Zack Attack", brought along some serious excitement.
Who was Beleins first recruit? Morgan came in his 2nd season right?
...he snagged Zack and Stu right at the end of the recruiting season b/c they had no big time offers and Beilein needed players who fit his style.
What about Eso Akunne?
Harris and Sims were in state guys though good gets. Darius was touted and a national recruit. He made it cool for top talent to come to A2 and was the first signature proof point in Belien's developmental talents. He took us within a floater of knocking off Duke in the tourney. He's who the sophomores saw as the prototype. They were HS juniors then. I also think he's a big part of attracting Burke.
Manny Harris has been Coach B,most important recurit to date...he gave Coach B cred within program and in the minds of future Wolverines.
Zach and Stu should be remembered for their GRIT AND TOUGHNESS that officially got us back into the spotlight.
Personal foul Unecessary Roughness
15 point penalty and loss of down.
he proved that Beilein's system worked.
He's the most important recruit in the history of recruiting.
And Belein proved last year when Novak left that he doesn't really have a system. He has an approach, more of a preferred way of playing, which he tailors to his players.
So no, I dont think it was Novak. Novak and Belein were simple a good fit. It took a guy like Morris signing with UM to signal to the nation that something was resurging in Ann Arbor.
And then it took a guy like Trey to prove to the nation that it was real.