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Michigan Basketball - Early Discussion

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October 18th, 2011 at 11:15 AM
#1
Stuck in Ohio 2
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Joined: 10/31/2010
MGoPoints: 226
Michigan Basketball - Early Discussion

Maybe it is the result of the bye week, but I woke up in the mood to discuss some basketball.. Expectations will be relatively high for this squad, despite losing Morris. I was curious what Mgoblog's community opinion was on the following reagrding UM.. 

-Season Predictions?

-Most Improved/Breakout player?

-Point guard situation?

-Big Ten favorites?

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October 18th, 2011 at 11:17 AM | This whole discussion is (Score:-1 Overrated)
His Dudeness
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Joined: 11/24/2008
MGoPoints: 13558

This whole discussion is based on what Mitch does.

or uh, Duder, or El Duderino if you're not into the whole brevity thing.

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October 18th, 2011 at 11:21 AM | A 2012 prospect has an (Score:5 Normal)
EZ Bud
Joined: 01/04/2011
MGoPoints: 476

A 2012 prospect has an influence on the 2011 season? This is telling..

This is MICHIGAN

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October 18th, 2011 at 11:38 AM | The most public of my many (Score:5 Normal)
His Dudeness
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The most public of my many embarrassments...

or uh, Duder, or El Duderino if you're not into the whole brevity thing.

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October 18th, 2011 at 1:40 PM | Well played Jackie (Score:2 Normal)
93Grad
Joined: 07/26/2011
MGoPoints: 823

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October 18th, 2011 at 11:23 AM | Morris was certainly a (Score:2 Normal)
Flying Dutchman
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Joined: 09/16/2009
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Morris was certainly a talent, but I think Burke/Brundidge come up big and make the loss of DM minimal.  The Wolverines haven't had 2 guards this highly regarded come in for a long time, and we all know freshman can make a huge impact in the Big 10.

Morgan continues to grow, Smotczyrimovich becomes a deadeye from outside, and THJR is all Big 10.    The team spends the better part of the season in the top 25, gets a decent seed in March.   We don't win the regular season Big 10 but make it to the finals in the Big 10 Tourney.   Sweet 16 in March, and more big recruits.

Most importantly, we are better than Sparty.

"I don't see how having someone piss on my face is going to help me sell Lou Ferrigno's house."

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October 18th, 2011 at 11:24 AM | by most accounts Smotz is (Score:2)
UMfan21
Joined: 09/28/2009
MGoPoints: 1769

by most accounts Smotz is having a breakout summer and is supposed to be much improved.  Aside from him, I would think Burke or Brundidge will be "surprises" simply for the amount of PT they get.

I think the team will be good, but Morris' departure will hurt.  It's going to be up to Burke/Brundidge to determine how far this team can go.  I expect some stumbles along the way, and the turnover to assist ratio might not be as good as last year.  Morris was really good at distributing the ball (and creating).

I don't think they will use the pick and roll as much as last year (just my feeling) because Morris was abnormally good at it and his height gave him an advantage.  I think we'll probably go back to the types of offense we ran 2 and 3 years ago with CJ Lee and Merritt at the point.  More screens and passing, but less pick and roll.

I haven't looked aroung the B1G yet to see where we stack up, but I know the conference as a whole lost a LOT of great players.  We only lost our PG, but he was a good one. 

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October 18th, 2011 at 11:25 AM | The (Score:1)
ijohnb
Joined: 09/21/2009
MGoPoints: 2785

development of Jordan Morgan will be key to Michigan's success this year.  A lot of our office was Morris leaners with 5 on the shot clock last year, and that was because there was really not much happening inside.  Morgan can dunk with the best of them, but he needs to become a polished inside scorer with his back to the basket. 

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October 18th, 2011 at 11:38 AM | I would really like to see (Score:1)
Stuck in Ohio 2
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I would really like to see Morgan come out as the most improved player on the team..He has the size to be dominant but just needs some polishing up. His size will be needed on the defensive side of the ball when it comes to the B1G season.

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October 18th, 2011 at 11:25 AM | I think we'll beat Wayne (Score:1 Flamebait)
artds
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I think we'll beat Wayne State in the exhibition opener.

Every time an MGoBoard poster complains about a thread topic, God kills a baby panda.

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October 18th, 2011 at 11:42 AM | Doubt it (Score:2)
da3mite
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Joined: 06/27/2011
MGoPoints: 184

Are you talking about the same Wayne State Warriors that I am thinking of? We have no chance.

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October 18th, 2011 at 11:31 AM | I think we split with MSU. (Score:-1 Overrated)
goblueritzy92
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Joined: 01/26/2009
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I think we split with MSU.

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October 18th, 2011 at 11:33 AM | posted from iPhone (Score:4 Normal)
allintime23
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Joined: 09/21/2009
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I think we sweep.

All in for some manball.

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October 18th, 2011 at 10:09 PM | GTFO (Score:3 Normal)
mgoviking5
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Joined: 01/06/2011
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Hail To the Victors...In Ohio

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October 18th, 2011 at 11:31 AM | -Season Predictions? 7 (Score:2)
mgokev
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Joined: 06/17/2009
MGoPoints: 6996

-Season Predictions? 7 losses

-Most Improved/Breakout player? smotz

-Point guard situation? not as big of a dropoff as we initially feared

-Big Ten favorites? not likely, though i think we make noise in the B1G tourney

GO BLUE

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October 18th, 2011 at 3:14 PM | "-Point guard situation? not (Score:2 Normal)
Champeen
Joined: 04/07/2011
MGoPoints: 135

"-Point guard situation? not as big of a dropoff as we initially feared"

What are you basing this off?

We lose our all time single season assist record holder (as a soph, i might add) going to the NBA, and you are saying we won't drop off because of a high school senior who no one has seen play a college game before is almost as good?  Im confused.

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October 18th, 2011 at 7:16 PM | I think you missed the part (Score:3 Normal)
jmblue
Joined: 11/07/2008
MGoPoints: 28964

I think you missed the part where he said it was a prediction. 

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October 18th, 2011 at 7:44 PM | Not only that, he said it (Score:2)
WolvinLA2
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Joined: 11/13/2009
MGoPoints: 17661

Not only that, he said it would be less of a drop off than we originally feared, not that there wouldn't be a drop-off. 

And I think I agree with that prediction.  PG will either be manned by Stu who has PG minutes from the last couple seasons, or Trey Burke who sounds very good, or both.  Considering all of our other players are back and should improve, that might mitigate the drop-off at PG and make it seem less severe than simply comparing Morris against his replacement. 

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October 18th, 2011 at 10:59 PM | The key is somebody (Score:1)
hajiblue72
Joined: 10/12/2010
MGoPoints: 132

The key is somebody has to be able to penetrate.  Certainly THJ will be running some pick n roll with Morgan, but we need penetration to make the offense work consistently.  Morris did that; hopefully Burke/Brundidge can step up as the season progresses. 

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October 18th, 2011 at 11:33 AM | The obvious question is the most important: (Score:2)
Erik_in_Dayton
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Joined: 12/03/2008
MGoPoints: 6784

Can Burke or some combination of players replace Morris?  That seems unlikely, but maybe overall team improvement will make up for it. 

My one prediction is that the team will improve a lot as the season goes on.  I think that they'll struggle early w/out Morris. 

It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future. -- Yogi Berra

                         

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October 18th, 2011 at 11:37 AM | Oh and OSU will rape the B1G (Score:0 Normal)
goblueritzy92
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Joined: 01/26/2009
MGoPoints: 894

Oh and OSU will rape the B1G this year with Sullinger, take 2.

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October 18th, 2011 at 11:42 AM | I have to disagree here, I (Score:1)
Stuck in Ohio 2
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Joined: 10/31/2010
MGoPoints: 226

I have to disagree here, I think OSU could very well be the favorite, but certainly not dominant. They lost some good perimeter players. Of course, Craft and Sully will be a year older, but they will be missing some key players from last year, IMO

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October 18th, 2011 at 11:03 PM | Loss of Diebler (Score:1)
hajiblue72
Joined: 10/12/2010
MGoPoints: 132

Loss of Diebler could be a big deal - he helped them spread the floor.  But they are loaded......I think I agree with rape and pillage.

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October 18th, 2011 at 11:39 AM | Any ideas for our starting 5? (Score:1)
Moleskyn
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Joined: 06/28/2010
MGoPoints: 3181

I'm guessing:

1 - Burke or Brundidge
2 - Novak/Douglass
3 - THJ
4 - Smotrycz
5 - Morgan/McLimans

At first I was thinking Novak at the 2 and Douglass at the 3, since I would imagine Beilein would want the presence of both seniors in the starting lineup, but if he wants to go with his best 5, it seems like Smotrycz has to be in there.

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October 18th, 2011 at 11:51 AM | McLimans will not be the (Score:2)
Croatian_Blue
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Joined: 08/04/2010
MGoPoints: 716

McLimans will not be the number 2 inside man.  Horford will be the one giving breathers to Morgan and hopefully will eventually become the starter given the work he put in over the summer and his bloodlines hopefully shining through.

I love me some Morgan, but I think Horford is a little more athletic. 

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October 18th, 2011 at 11:57 AM | That's fair. Horford is one (Score:1)
Moleskyn
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Joined: 06/28/2010
MGoPoints: 3181

That's fair. Horford is one of those guys, along with Smotrycz and Morgan, that I think has the potential to be the most improved. I thought he made some pretty typical freshman mistakes last year, but he did look pretty athletic.

Question about McLimans though: why are you so quick to dismiss his potential to be the #2 big man? I haven't followed the team at all through the off-season, so I'm just interested to hear what you know.

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October 18th, 2011 at 12:06 PM | McLimans has really struggled (Score:4 Normal)
BraveWolverine730
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Joined: 09/21/2009
MGoPoints: 2743

McLimans has really struggled with his outside shooting and that really is the only thing he mainly brings to the table. Horford was very good in limited minutes rebounding and has the potential to be the shot blocking threat that really improves our defense.  Also since I don't see us running more than an 8 man rotation, with some combination of Burke(if he doesn't start), Douglas, Vogrich, and Brundidge, there just don't seem to be enough minutes for him to contribute even if he is better than Horford. 

" I want to win Big 10 titles. Multiply. Consecutively. I just made that word up (multiply). I'm like that. I'm good at Scrabble."

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October 18th, 2011 at 11:12 PM | McLimans should be (Score:1)
hajiblue72
Joined: 10/12/2010
MGoPoints: 132

McLimans should be the odd man out simply on talent.  Horford, beyond his off season weight gain, has also really committed.  Supposedly effort  and work ethic have picked up dramatically - he used to have to be poked and prodded to do things and that has changed.  Potentially Horford may split a lot of minutes with Morgan - I think Smotrycz is going to end up on the floor a lot.  And Horford has an inch or two on Morgan, now weighs more and I believe has a wingspan advantage as well.  Be interesting to see how they have developed.

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October 18th, 2011 at 12:03 PM | Our "depth chart" as I see it (Score:2)
BrewCityBlue
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Joined: 09/07/2009
MGoPoints: 1468

1 - Burke / Stu / Brundidge

2 - Novak / Stu / Brundidge

3 - THJ / Vogrich

4 - Smotrycz / Novak

5 - Morgan / Smotrycz

This is how I see the rotations going with our top 8. 

I'd come out with Burke, Novak, THJ, Smotz, Morgan. 

Depending on how the game goes, what type of matchup you have, etc there are many ways to go from there. With our lack of depth in the front court I still see Novak having to play some 4 in some smaller lineups. Not great for Novak, but he's done it his whole career and we have more depth in the backcourt. 

We could see "smaller" lineups of Burke/Stu/THJ/Novak/Smotz throughout the year. 

I personally think it will be a fun year.

EDIT: Forgot Horford rotating in at the 4/5 as well (Shame on me!!!!) - This may reduce the amount we need Novak in the front court. Maybe when he's not at the 2 he's helping Vogrich give THJ a break at the 3. 

We're deep gentlemen...

HAIL.

"Where's the threat? Oh, it's right here, and it's devouring us alive." -Ace<

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October 18th, 2011 at 12:37 PM | Brundidge (Score:2)
BlueNote
Joined: 08/07/2008
MGoPoints: 1093

Are people talking about him as a point guard?  I thought he was recruited as a shooting guard.

“We accept reality so readily, perhaps because we sense that nothing is real.” 

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October 18th, 2011 at 2:50 PM | posted from iPhone (Score:2)
UMfan21
Joined: 09/28/2009
MGoPoints: 1769

He's more of a shooter than a slasher but the guard spots are pretty interchangeable in our offense as I understand it.

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October 18th, 2011 at 12:07 PM | My take (Score:1)
Tater
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Joined: 08/13/2008
MGoPoints: 10370

There are two important factors here:

1.  Is Trey Burke "for real?"

2.  Can Jon Horford turn into a bona fide elite big man?

If the answers to those questions are "yes," Michigan will create a form of "midnight madness" for its fans on a regular basis this season.  

 

 

 

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October 18th, 2011 at 12:11 PM | FWIW (Score:2 Normal)
Tubes
Joined: 06/30/2008
MGoPoints: 647

I ran into one of the players at a bar in Chicago the night before the Northwestern game and he told me Stu would be the starting point guard

Athens, GA

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October 18th, 2011 at 1:53 PM | Is Stu... (Score:1)
Naked Bootlegger
Naked Bootlegger's picture
Joined: 01/28/2011
MGoPoints: 1212

....well-spoken and approachable in person?   :)

JB seems to like Stu's insta-offense off the bench role.   We'll just have to see.

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October 18th, 2011 at 4:04 PM | Lol (Score:1)
Tubes
Joined: 06/30/2008
MGoPoints: 647

My bet would be that Stu starts the majority of the non-conference games at the point, but by the time the big ten season rolls around one of the freshmen will be starting.  Hopefully.

Athens, GA

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October 18th, 2011 at 12:19 PM | I'll be interested to see how (Score:2)
WojoRisin
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Joined: 10/03/2009
MGoPoints: 560

I'll be interested to see how the offense looks without one person dominating the ball so much. Morris is a great player and I'd love to have him back, but there were times when the offense felt stagnant last year because Morris was always in control of where the offense was heading. I expect a lot more ball movement this year, so backdoor cuts and skip passes will be key.

Also, I expect to see Stu taking over a big part of the PG duties early, and the freshman taking over more as they learn the system. Definitely a great time to be a Michigan basketball fan!

"That broke a lot of Irish hearts. Now isn't that too bad?" - Bo

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October 18th, 2011 at 12:20 PM | I think we'll do (Score:1)
somewittyname
Joined: 05/15/2009
MGoPoints: 1029

well in B10 as we'll have had some time to break in the new guys and it shouldn't be as strong as it has in past years. Concerned about getting off to a rough start though. I'm hoping for Smot to have a big year and for Horford to turn into a very strong second option at center.

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October 18th, 2011 at 12:20 PM | The key issue in my mind is (Score:2)
gordie bell
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Joined: 03/15/2009
MGoPoints: 7962

The key issue in my mind is who gets into the lane and creates havoc? Burke and Brundidge are the only two players whose game is suited to drive and dish. It will be interesting to see if Hardaway has added dribble penetration to his game, (I doubt that he has), his ball handling had a long way to go when the season ended. Stu is capable of getting in the lane, but isn't comfortable doing it at last check. Smot is the only big capable of getting past his defender and into the lane (thanks to his killer pump fake), but I don't know how good a passer he is.\

When Smot plays the 5, M will have 5 capable 3 point shooters on the floor at the same time. This will give Burke and Brundidge ample room to get into the lane and do damage. The freshman guards have walked into an ideal situation and I expect both will be effective on the offensive end starting early in the season. Shot selection will be a key, but I think Belien will be able to get the kids to understand what he wants and how he wants to go about it.

Burke, I think, will be a good player from day one. 

If teams have to respect Brundidge's shot, he will be effective right away as well. Brundidge is very strong and wide. This combined with his good handle, surprising quickness, excellent balance  and swag, will make Brundidge tough to handle for almost any college guard.

I don't expect Burke and Brundidge be on the floor at the same time very often, espeically to start the season. I am hopeful that both play well enough for Belien to want one of them on the floor for the majority of the game. Despit being true freshman, these two have played so much basketball against good competition the last 4 years and are pretty much a known commodity. M bball fans are going to be pleased with these two the next 4 years.

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October 18th, 2011 at 12:43 PM | Has anyone heard anything from practice? (Score:1)
ClearEyesFullHart
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Joined: 09/09/2011
MGoPoints: 803

I have not been frequenting umhoops/rivals free board much...Anyone heard any early returns on Burke/Brundidge?  Sam Webb heard anything you're willing to share?  Beilein said they can both shoot(which is nice) and Burke's highlights are real impressive from a scoring perspective...But I haven't seen a lot of distribution.  Anyone seen or heard anything?

On ball screens/2 man game: THJ and Morgan had some nice plays last year, and you have to think THJ's ability to hit from anywhere on the court makes this combo at least as dangerous, as long as we can get the ball up the court.

Omnes i facere est vincere 
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October 18th, 2011 at 12:44 PM | The key (Score:2)
BlueNote
Joined: 08/07/2008
MGoPoints: 1093

will be how quickly Burke picks up the offense and defense, and whether he shows maturity beyond his years when making split-second decisions.  My bet is that Stu is starting at point guard at the beginning of the season but that the plan is to work in Burke over time.  If we see Burke starting at PG before Big Ten play, I think that's a good sign.

Since our offense is generally based on getting the ball to shooters who can't create their own shot, that increases the importance of the point guard position. Losing Morris was HUGE.

Since we have magnificent coaches, I also expect to see gradual improvement at every other position. 

“We accept reality so readily, perhaps because we sense that nothing is real.” 

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October 18th, 2011 at 1:25 PM | posted from iPhone (Score:1)
jls1144
Joined: 02/20/2010
MGoPoints: 332

I'm down in Columbus and occasionally run into Burkes coach. He is adamant in saying we got a better person in Trey than a player... and we got one heck of a player.

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October 18th, 2011 at 1:34 PM | I'm riding heavily on the (Score:2)
ReadYourGuard
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Joined: 08/21/2008
MGoPoints: 6191

I'm riding heavily on the Jordan Morgan train.  I think the kid has done a great job in the offseasons, working on his strength and conditioning.  I think he can be an intimidating factor that will help everyone do their jobs more effectively.

Also hoping Smotrycz, Douglas, and Novak have gotten stronger and worked endlessly on their shots.

Finally, I'd love to see THJ become a bona fide star.

 

Is that asking for too much? 

"the Spirit of Michigan...is based on a deathless loyalty to Michigan and all her ways....and a conviction that nowhere is there a better university, in any way, than this Michigan of ours" - Fielding Yost
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October 18th, 2011 at 1:53 PM | Stu is a dangerous shooter (Score:1)
mackbru
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Joined: 09/01/2009
MGoPoints: 3066

Stu is a dangerous shooter but I worry about him at the point. He's really not a playmaker.

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October 18th, 2011 at 3:15 PM | (Score:1)
RyanRampage1
Joined: 03/04/2011
MGoPoints: 56

It's all gonna be about trey Burk and stu Douglas running the point, letting Novak and, Hardaway get the job done scoring. Jordan Morgan will also be fun to watch and see how he developed

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October 18th, 2011 at 3:22 PM | Lineup/Rotation will change (Score:2 Normal)
SoFlaWolverine
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Joined: 07/08/2011
MGoPoints: 366

I think we start out like this (hypothetical ideal minutes in parentheses ignoring obvious Morgan foul trouble disclaimer, freshmen WTF? disclaimer, and MOAR Novak plz disclaimer):

PG - Stu, some minutes at the 2 (25)
2 - Novak (25)
3 - Hardaway (30)
4 - Smotrycz, some minutes at 5 (30)
5 - Morgan (30)

Burke - top sub at PG (20)
Brundidge - top sub at 2/3 (10)
Vogrich - depth sub at 2/3 (10)
Horford - top sub at 4/5 (20)

And end up like this:

PG - Burke (25)
2 - Novak (25)
3 - Hardaway (30)
4 - Smotrycz, some minutes at 5 (25)
5 - Morgan (30)

Stu - top sub at 1 / some minutes at 2 (20)
Brudidge - top sub at 2/3 (20)
Horford - top sub at 4/5 (25)

Not a radical change, but I think the freshmen will figure it out and become key contributors. As far as the kid from Illinois Bielfeldt (sp?), I don't know how he's fit in and if he can challenge for some minutes at the 4, so I'm assuming he gets garbage minutes at best.

Denard is my homeboy.

University of Michigan Class of 2014

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October 18th, 2011 at 6:40 PM | posted from iPhone (Score:1)
Kaminski16
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Joined: 09/07/2010
MGoPoints: 695

I realize Horford is putting on weight and developing but expecting 25 minutes a game is way too much. I would say closer to 10 / 12.

See it through.

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October 18th, 2011 at 11:20 PM | I think that depends on (Score:1)
hajiblue72
Joined: 10/12/2010
MGoPoints: 132

I think that depends on Morgan's skill development - is his shooting improved and has he developed better inside footwork/moves.  Horford has size, weight and he has a much better shot.  Would guess guess Morgan still has a big leg up in basketball IQ though.

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October 18th, 2011 at 4:58 PM | I think THJ will be in the (Score:1)
althegreat23
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Joined: 05/30/2011
MGoPoints: 1233

I think THJ will be in the top 3 for Big Ten POY and we will make the sweet 16 at least.

"A Michigan Man will coach a Michigan Team"

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October 18th, 2011 at 5:26 PM | Regarding starting line up.  (Score:2)
trueblueintexas
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Joined: 11/10/2008
MGoPoints: 1256

Regarding starting line up.  I would anticiapte seeing your starting 5 for the whole year (barring injury) being: Stu, THJ, Novak, Smotz, Morgan.  I bet Beilein trusts his two upper classman during crunch time until a frosh can prove themselves.

As the season wears on, if Burke is up to the billing, I would expect him to earn 10+ min at the point.  I would also expect Horford, Christian, and potentially Bielfelfd (sp?) to split back up minutes in the post. 

Also, expect Morgan to be a better player with lesser numbers.  Morgan was the biggest benefactor of Morris.  He will be hurt the most, that said, I bet his over all game (defense and rebounding) will be better and really make a difference.

Overall prediction, expect a very team oriented game with THJ or Smotz stepping up when we need 1-on-1 play.  This will seem ugly and be a little lower scoring (especially early against tougher OOC opponents).  Thanks to some big losses at Purdue, Wisconsin, and MSU, conference will really come down to OSU, Illinois, and maybe Indiana. I think Michigan will match up well with most of the B1G, but could struggle against really athletic teams.  Against these teams, they will really have to rely on execution and communication.  Don't be too conerenced about this, as a game like Tennessee last year is a great example of execution beating athleticism.

"Anyone who isn't confused, really doesn't understand the situation." - Edward R. Murrow

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October 18th, 2011 at 7:40 PM | I think we'll have decent (Score:2)
jmblue
Joined: 11/07/2008
MGoPoints: 28964

I think we'll have decent balance, but I'll be surprised if THJ isn't clearly the go-to guy. He averaged something like 18 ppg over the last 10 games last season. I think he'll be among the Big Ten's scoring leaders.

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October 18th, 2011 at 9:38 PM | Agreed. THJ, Sullinger, and (Score:1)
GoBlogSparty
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Joined: 02/19/2010
MGoPoints: 1191

Agreed. THJ, Sullinger, and Taylor are my early top 3 for B10 POY.

Your friendly neighborhood Sparty

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