Wisconsin at 7
Nebraska at 8
Illinois at 24
Wisconsin at 7
Nebraska at 8
Illinois at 24
Surprised illinois didn't drop out after struggling vs wmu
I don't think that the game was close because Illinois is bad, I think the game was close because WMU is good. I know I am probably pumping up WMU in part, being a homer, but they really impressed me. I think they could beat several teams in the Big Ten this year, were they given the opportunity to play them.
I guess while I am at it, I should also say that I think SDSU is pretty darn good, and will win some conference games this year.
After really impressing me against MSU, ND came back down to earth a little, but still beat Pitt. Pitt is an odd team in that they tend to lose some easy games but win some tough ones. Let's just wait and see how good ND really is.
Overall, I think Michigan has beaten some very good teams already. Our cupcakes this year weren't nearly as easy as some might suggest. I think our #19 is legitimate so far.
I agree, with that passing attack I think Western dominates the MAC this year. By transitive properties, U of I beat and ASU that dominated a telent rich USC so I say they are near the top of the B10 based on out of conference wins.
Temple and Toledo will have something to say. It seems like this is one of the better years for the conference.
This year, "could beat several Big Ten teams" really doesn't mean much with how horrid the Big 10 is this year (especially at the bottom). Tons of teams could beat Indiana, Purdue, Minnesota, probably Penn State, possibly Iowa, probably a Persa-less Northwestern, apparently almost Illinois, which (mixed with OSU's performance against Toledo) means possibly even OSU on a lucky day.
Wisconsin dropped a spot as Oklahoma St. jumped them. I guess that's fair because OKSU beat a much better opponent, but right now Wisconsin looks like a top 5 team. There's a pretty big gulf between them and Nebraska IMO.
I agree. I think our division is between us and Nebraska, with Illinois further behind and Northwestern being a wildcard depending on whether Persa plays at all this season.
Wisconsin should run away with their side of the conference unless OSU really gets their act together.
Illinois is not in our division, they are in the Leaders.
I think MSU will finish second in the Legends division (our division). Their defense is playing lights out right now.
My projections for how things will shake out based on the first 4 games of the season:
As for your standings, Nebraska is good, but MSU just got blasted by a team we beat and Iowa does not look good at all. Pitt running a poor mans Michigan offense (though Graham is better than any of our backs) put 27 on their defense and should have done much more. I wouldn't be surprised to see us put up 35+ on Iowa this year.
Can we stop applying the transitive law to sports? /BOOM MATH'D
Seriously, just because we beat a team they lost to, doesn't mean that we're better than State. We were at home, UTL. They were at ND. Let's not use this as valid reasoning.
They not only lost, they got destroyed. The first good defensive line they faced completely caved their offensive line (53 yards rushing not counting -24 from their number 3, 4 and 5 rushers) and we have a solid D line. I'd say that us holding pretty well against ND and Sparty getting blown out the next week is highly relevant, but that's just me.
What was the final score if Cierre Wood doesn't run into his lineman and drop the football or if Tommy Rees didn't eat popcorn before the fourth quarter? We're probably going to need more data points then one to start drawing conclusions about a future game.
If you don't recall, for 3 quarters, we got destroyed too. The difference is that MSU got destroyed for 4. Away, not a big and entirely memorable game.
I'm with Tom from AA here. MSU is going to be one of our most challenging games on the schedule. I think you make a good point about their OL, and we do have the advantage there, but that is not going to be the determinant of the whole game.
It very well could determine the game
I don't think MSU is an autowin. My initial comment was to the poster who still had us finishing in fourth place in the division behind Nebraska, MSU and Iowa. They have weaknesses (like we do) and they're not world beaters. I think their season will end up speaking for itself.
Also, I think it's fine to look at common opponents, especially when the games are two weeks apart and there were no glaring differences (ND still lost the turnover battle) or big injuries. I'm not saying that since 2010 SDSU laid a beatdown on 2010 Navy that 2011 Michigan would do the exact same, these are the same teams a week apart.
we do play both iowa and msu on the road. advantage goes to them. i would be happy to steal just one W from one of them.
we threw the ball to ND three times. The t/o differential was +2. That happens in football.
A little tired of people acting as though we had no turnover that game.
Really, the turnover differential was +1. ND's last turnover came on the final play of the game.
Iowa at 3rd? Serious?
Really! Is it within our reach! You can see us there! Tell us how you really feel! Exclamation point!
Serioiusly, I don't see it either. He must not have been watching/checking the scores of Iowa games.
I agree that Nebraska's the favorite and Minnesota's the obvious last-place team, but spots #2 through #5 are well up in the air IMO. I don't think anything conclusive has been proven. (It's also possible Nebraska could slide.)
Lights out? Wtf? I don't think our pass offense is as good as notre same but let's not let two games against Florida institute of liberal arts and the worst cmu team in half a decade fool us
MSU also held ND to 275 total yards of offense in South Bend, allowing only 3.6 ypc on the ground. That is the same ground attack that shredded our defense. A lot of people only look at the score of the ND-MSU game and assume that ND dominated but that simply wasn't the case.
Personally, I don't care who MSU has played, they are only giving up 172 ypg to their opponents. That is tremendous defense even if you are playing FAU and CMU. I think many posters are simply allowing their hatred of MSU (and the frustration of having lost the last 3 meetings) to cloud their judgment re: Sparty. Yes, they can't run the ball for sh*t but their defense and passing offense are both very good.
But - having watched that game - I think that yardage total is deceptive, too. ND's offense lost two possessions because of the kickoff return and the fumbled punt. From what I saw, they moved the ball quite well for three quarters. In the fourth, they sat on the ball. Before their field goal at the end, they were just having their QB go down to center the ball.
MSU probably is a good defensive team, but the ND game is the only one of their first four that offers any kind of insight and I don't think they played as well that day as the stat sheet suggested. FAU and CMU are two of the worst teams in the country (WMU beat CMU by 30 points) and YSU is a bad FCS team.
I don't think ND adequately demonstrates our rush defense. As I remember from watching, most of those runs were all draw plays and were demonstrative of good checks against a blitz and an effective passing game that was unbalancing our strategy.
I'm not willing to count MSU out just yet. They could still do some damage.... their D looks pretty good to date.
Iowa's conference schedule is VERY favorable. That is why I picked them to finish ahead of UM.
Iowa's B1G schedule:
Should win: Indiana, Minnesota, Purdue
Toss-up (Iowa favored): PSU, Michigan, MSU
Toss-up (Iowa dog): N'Western (crazy...but look at the history)
Should lose: Nebraska
You'll notice: no Wisconsin, no OSU, no Illinois and they play the 3 worst teams in the conference in Indy, Minny and Purdue. I think Iowa will finish 5-3, possibly even 6-2 against that schedule.
While for some of those teams history may favor them, Iowa has fallen hard as opposed to last year. First off they lost a lot of defensive linemen to the NFL. Secondly, how many running backs have been kicked off the team? Lastly while Vandenberg is ok I think Stanzi was a better quarterback for them.
In their system it is all about running the ball and the QB playing management and with their running back situation all messed up that really hurts them. I think they will finish 4th behind us and MSU.
Vandenberg has been very good in Iowa's first four games: 63% completion, 274 passing ypg and 10 TD's to only 1 INT. Will those numbers hold up over an entire season? Perhaps not, but he has been outstanding thus far.
Iowa's defense is not up to their usual standards (~24 ppg) but their offense is chugging along quite nicely. They are currently 3rd in the conference in ppg at 37.8.
Games toward the left are more difficult
This is the second post I've seen of yours with really useful information. Plus one and keep up the good work!
The game next week between Wiscy and Nebraska will tell a ton about both teams. Wiscy has played four weak teams to start the season. It should be interesting watching Wiscy against a real D. I watched the second half of the WMU - Illinois game. WMU gave Illinois everything they could handle.
guess we'll find that one out soon enough. gameday in madison.
has played some pretty horrible opponents though especially compared to other top 10 teams
Michigan would look like a top 5 team too playing their "brutal" non conference schedule. Wisconsin hasn't proved anything yet.
That Wisconsin Nebraska matchup looks to be pretty good. Might be the game of the week. Also, while it doesnt mean much, it feels good to be ranked again.
LSU jumped to #1, let's see what Les does to screw this up.
That defense is scary good (and always has been) and the offense finally seems to be producing somewhat. This is a very good team. In my mind, the winner of LSU v. Alabama wins the SEC and makes the NC game.
That is unless all the SEC teams murder each other and no one emerges unscathed to make the NC game.
Notice that the Buckeyes didn't crack the top 25 in either poll. They looked much better yersterday, but I'm not sure how good Colorado is.
If Colorado isn't one of the worst teams, they're certainly one of the dumbest teams, which closes the gap between being bad, and awful..
This is good- but need to keep the focus on the next two and get ready to spank Sparty.
It does not mean anything at this time.
Good to see, but I'll be more impressed if the team plays well against the meat of the schedule. Right now, being top-20 isn't super-impressive. Now, being top-20 after going through MSU, Nebraska, and OSU would be completely different.
I am not surprised to see LSU at the top spot, but I wonder if they might be cresting a little too early. That defense looks really good, but offensively I'm not sold that Lee and co. can keep it going, and teams like MSU and WVU might be exposed a a bit as mediocre outfits. I mean, the Bulldogs needed overtime to beat LTU, and got beaten by a meh Auburn team. And while WVU might have been a preseason darling, they struggled beating a very mediocre Maryland team and were then housed by LSU. And yes, Oregon was a good win, but that was a glorified home game to begin the season. So while I think LSU is a good team, I'm not sold on them outside of their defense, which is spectacular.
Michigan's passing game needs to make some strides, and its running game weighs under 200 pounds. The defense is getting it done, but for how long does turnover margin favor Michigan?
The only thing that makes me think Michigan's ranking is close to accurate is how poorly future opponents have performed, save Wisco and Illinois.
We still need to do alot to prove we deserve this ranking IMO
+ Eleventy Billion
Her given name is Alot I'm down w/ doing Alot
I disagree. Florida is at 12 without doing much more than we have (I think Kentucky is something like SDSU, Tennessee is not nearly as good as ND). Texas is at 17 while beating nobody close to as good as ND or maybe even WMU or SDSU, I think UCLA could easily lose to either team.
Agreed. UCLA is terrible this season and shouldnt be counted as a good win - Their two wins are San Jose State and an Oregon State team that is absolutley awful. While our schedule shapes up to be decently easy this year, our OOC games were not neccesairily a cakewalk. ND is very talented and SDSU and WMU are two of the better non AQ teams out there.
Also, I think Alabama just looks like a monstorous team right now. They look like an NFL unit on defense right now it's gonna be tough to beat them. That game on Nov 5 against LSU is gonna be a hell of a ball game
Yeah that game is shaping up to be the game of the 2011 college football season. For all the shady things Saban does, the guy puts together rediculous defenses. He recruits amazing athletes and also makes sure they play with great fundamentals. Alabama is really the team that I hope Michigan becomes under Hoke (minus the shady things of course).
A Scout poster broke down the AP poll by voter:
Craig James again loves us, but now someone else does even more. For the first time, all AP voters put us in their ballots.
I wonder if that someone else loves killing hookers more than Craig James.
We're definitely ranked a tad high at this point. We need more consistency on D for one thing. It's great that we've only given up 10 points in the last 2 games but SDSU made it into Michigan territory on 10 or 11 drives. The linebackers keep losing contain, the secondary is more lucky than solid, and the D-Line is still in flux.
On the plus side, kickoff coverage is much MUCH better. I like seeing consistent tackles made inside the 20 yard line. On a related topic, when Hagerup comes back he had better start hitting 50-yard punts every time, because our field position has not been great either.
I think we'll see a few more screen passes per game when we get into B10 play. Otherwise, we've seen plenty of innovation in the passing game (Jump balls to Jeremy Gallon!?) and I still have confidence that Borges will find the right passing attack for Denard's current skill set.
Isn't that a sign of good defense? The only reason SDSU scored at all yesterday was a fumble fairly deep in our own territory. Otherwise, the defense held or forced turnovers on every one of their drives.
As far as being ranked high, take a look at the teams above us. I'd say we were underrated before I'd say we were overrated, from a resume standpoint.
"bend but don't break" defense. I don't like seeing SDSU driving to the Michigan 30 before the D finally bites them. SDSU earned 20 1st downs to Michigan's 18.
They (and every other team) can drive to the one every time as far as I'm concerned. I'd take the 120th ranked total defense in exchange for the top ranked scoring defense.
20 first downs isn't all that many (ND gained 28 against us), and they got, what, four on their last possession of the game?
7 of those first downs (along with 110 total yards) came on SDSU's last two meaningless drives that began with about 6 minutes left in the game and SDSU down 28-7 with UM playing "prevent" defense.
The fact is, UM, for the first 3 1/2 quarters, did an excellent job of shutting down SDSU's offense (when the game was still on the line): 13 FD and about 270 yards. Pretty good work IMO.
Keep in mind that: 1) SDSU is a respectable team and received some top 25 votes itself a week ago; 2) several of those drives started in our territory because of turnovers and 3) they wound up scoring 31 points under their season average.
The stat about SDSU getting into UM territory 10 or 11 times is somewhat misleading. 3 of those instances they started in UM territory due to TO. In the first half, SDSU got into UM territory 3 times: UM 39, UM 40, UM 43. In the 4th quarter, SDSU got into UM territory all 4 drives: UM 40, UM 43, UM 33 and UM 13 but those last two drives were their final drives after UM had gone up 28-7 and was basically playing "prevent" defense.
So, 7 drives where SDSU started in their own territory and drove into UM territory with only 2 of those drives getting inside the "scoring zone" (i.e. inside the 35 yard line) and those 2, again, were the final two meaningless drives. UM's defense did an outstanding job of denying SDSU any real scoring chances.
MSU is ranked 2 spots ahead of SDSU in total offense. SDSU has the highest rated rush offense of that bunch too, and MSU's o-line is trash. Northwestern is #99(without Persa, but still). I think your argument is based a little too much on reputation and not productivity this year.
While MSU is a talented team and in no way an easy win, I think that there OL vs our DL will be what gets us this W. Their line is a complete mess and if our DLine keeps improving we will be able to slow down the run as well as pressure Cousins into making some bad decisions.
I wasn't trying to say that MSU was an easy win in the slightest, I was just challenging the notion that MSU and Northwestern's offenses were so much better than anything else we've been tested by so far. I'm terrified that Cousins will pick the secondary apart.
Who cares about polls. The goal is to beat ohio and win the B1G.
if michigan was 12-0 and wasn't ranked, i would be mad, wouldn't you?
The goal is to win the B1G and go to the Rose Bowl. I have zero faith in the BCS. They always find some way to magically fuck things up anyways. Believe me, IF Michigan were to go 13-0, there is no chance in hell they'd be left out. Michigan produces too much revenue to turn them away.
To be fair, the BCS has gotten the top 2 teams in the national championship every year. They really never fucked anything up as far as I can recall.
Well, Boise, TCU and Auburn might disagree with you depending on the year. Michigan as well in 2006, but with the Rose Bowl/MNC result they seem vindicated.
Defintionally that's exactly what they do. Only they set the #1 and #2.
If UofM goes undefeated there's no question where they'll play in Jan. Polls mean nothing if you're Michigan at this point. Just win, that's all you can control.
I think that is around where we should be ranked.
I think our defense has made huge strides. SDSU was the type of game that the last few years, we would have been in a race to outscore them. This defense, albeit with huge holes, has bent but not broken.
Our offense...I don't know if we have really taken steps backward, but Borges is playing around a bit. I think he needs to be careful going forward, because our margin for error is much less in the Big 10 than OOC games.
So far, I am happy. We will see what the Big 10 brings.
Never thought they would make this type of turn around in this short period of time. They are tackling much better and the DB's are not allowing tons of YAC. I was really impressed with Countess at corner and Jake Ryan and Roh are both making plays. Knock on wood. I hope it continues.
......until about halfway through the season, especially the way scheduling is now. If we're in the teens still at the middle of October, that wouldn't be too bad at all really.
Until late November, and then only if we're ranked 2 or 3.
Not to be a Negative Nancyyyyy but...I think you're a wee bit crazy if you aren't cautiously happy. The last few years we do well in NonCon, but once B1G play starts it's a rocky road..I am confident in our team, but cautious as well! Go Blue!
win the next two weeks and we're probably around 15. put little brother back in his place and then take care of purdue and we're around 10. it is exciting to think about.
Go blue! Lets see how deep the rabbit hole goes!
I enjoy the love Michigan's getting as much as the next guy. But this is not a real-deal top 20 football team yet.
There's a lot of work to do, and they may get there by the end of the season. But against the better B1G teams, I think they'll have to play over their heads, and Denard will have to pull off more miracles, to win.
I think they'll be fine going forward, because this year the defense is actually forcing turnovers and making big plays when needed
Too lazy to make a new thread, but Denard is one of the B1G players of the week. Good for him.