But yeah, wouldn't worry about making it up to 14.
But yeah, wouldn't worry about making it up to 14.
No, we play Ohio. Welcome to the Brady Hoke era.
calling Ohio State "Ohio" is exactly as stupid as "University of Spoiled Children" or "The School Up North" or "State Penn." It might actually be dumber, because, you know, Ohio University is actually a school.
Except they call themselves "Ohio"
The band spells OHIO (not OHIO STATE)
The students and alumni stand shoulder to shoulder and spell out OHIO.
I guess they are being dumb.
is that OSU does this so that the state thinks of them as "Ohio", that it's the place Ohioans SHOULD go. If we do it, then it looks like it adds credence to that "argument", if I may call it that. I could see them turning this into "our state vs. the State of Michigan" more than it already is, inflaming already ridiculous passions their supporters already have. Seriously, that guys have to put up with the crap they do because the choose to attend a school of higher learning, uh 'another' school I mean of course, that just amazes me.
Well, this all did start with a near war between Michigan and Ohio, so maybe it really is a state vs. state thingy.
That's because they think they are the only school in Ohio
pretty sure this isn't one of them.
and weigh less than 140 pounds. I'm about as far from a badass as you're ever going to find.
I agree and disagree you with for a few reasons.
Most importantly, I agree that you're a douche bag.
Beyond that, I have no problem with Hoke saying Ohio, just like I have no problem with him refusing to wear red. I haven't decided how I feel about the rest of the Michigan fanbase calling them Ohio, though. That still seems a little weird to me (and I won't do it).
rationality on this one back when it first started. You catch as much "flamebait" as posting negative player rumors.
The most rational thing to do is probably to just let people call them whatever they want.
I think you've just made a case for calling them Ohio. Don't you think conflating OSU and Ohio University is a bit insulting to buckeye fans? I do. And also, aren't you sort of calling Brady Hoke dumb? And Bo too?
that's why I don't like it. Same reason the President is always "the President," even when you don't like what he's doing, or why you don't call someone "Andy" when he wants to be "Andrew." I think the fact that OSU fans have been calling Michigan "TSUN" for like 50 years now is one of the saddest things about them. It just makes them look petulant and 12.
And no, I'm not calling Brady Hoke dumb. I'm calling his refusal to say "Ohio State" dumb.
"I think the fact that OSU fans have been calling Michigan "TSUN" for like 50 years now is one of the saddest things about them. It just makes them look petulant and 12."
I don't see it that way at all. I think at best its a slight insult. Almost a term of endearment for a hated rival. Its similar to calling them tSIO or "the School In Ohio". The names I hate to see Michigan fans call OSU are Suckeyes and Fuckeyes. Those are the names that I would consider juvenile and beneath us. I guess we'll have to just agree to disagree.
If anything, calling them Ohio makes it seem like we respect them more as an opponent. Plus it makes more sense when you think of it as the state of Michigan versus the state of Ohio. Because that's really what it is...Michigan vs. Ohio. You know exactly what that means. I don't think it's insulting at all...if anything, it's endearing and a sign of respect for your most hated rival.
To take your example, we can refer to President Obama as simply "the President" because everyone knows who the hell you're talking about. Same thing with calling OSU simply "Ohio".
That's just my perspective, of course.
Well, OSU fans want their school to be called THE Ohio State University (with heavy emphasis on the "THE"). I'll assume that you do that, you know, to be respectful.
There is nothing dumb about it. Stop bitching.
they've got some, uhh... interesting looking girls in Ohio, hmm...
The Bobcats suck. We should totally be able to kick their ass.
It's the "Golden" Bobcats. Please show some respect.
Those bastards are our arch-rivals. No respect will be shown. I hate their guts.
BCS bound, bitches!
The Bobcat Rules
"Totally worth it!"
As long as their fans get their panties in a twist when Hoke calls them that (and they do), I am all for it. It's all about fanning the flames of a rivalry that has cooled a bit over the past several years, sadly as a result of the good guys not being particularly competitive in it.
We don't take kindly to folks who don't follow the zeitgeist.
Of games to be played... We will move up 3 spots if we take care of business
Yeah I hope so
Not worried. It's not something we can control.
Sparty loss to Wiscy in the title game and Georgia loss to LSU should put us over the hump. Just Beat Ohio and we'll be fine
The sparty loss to Northwestern.
Eh, after conference championships, it's still very possible to move up.
Moved up one spot?! Michigan beat a ranked team....the majority of the top 25 losses were to unranked opponents.
As long as Michigan wins (which they will), there are a few ranked teams that play each other that are ahead of us. I honestly see us ranked at least 12th-13th after it's all said and done.
Correction: we kicked the shit out of a ranked team, something this team hasn't done since 2006, it's ridiculous. But yah, we will be fine if we win out. The only poll that matters is the last one
Well, none of those teams are from the SEC, so those games don't count.
it seems to me. UM is ranked in the lower half of the 2 loss teams.
Of the eight 2 loss teams ahead of UM the Badgers lost to 1 ranked/1 unranked (MSU/Ohio), SCarolina lost to 1 ranked/1 unranked (Arkansas/Auburn), Oklahoma lost to 1/1 (Tx Tech/Baylor), MSU lost to 1/1 (Nebraska/OSU), USC lost to 1/1 (Stanford/ASU), Oregon lost to 1/1 (LSU/USC). However, Georgia lost to 2 ranked opponents (Boise, SCarolina), Kstate lost to 2 ranked opponents (Ok & Ok State).
Alternatively Oregon beat 2 ranked opponents (ASU & Stanford), USC has beaten 1 ranked opponent (Oregon), MSU has beaten 2 ranked opponents (UM/UW), Oklahoma beat 3 ranked opponents (TX, Kstate & Baylor), Georgia beat 1 ranked opponent (Auburn), SCarolina hasn't beaten 0 ranked opponents, Wisconsin beat 1 ranked opponent (Nebraska), Kstate has beaten 2 ranked opponents (TX & Baylor).
Comparatively UM has lost to 1 ranked/1 unranked (MSU/Iowa) and has beaten 1 ranked opponent (Nebraska).
It would seem that UM should be ranked above SCarolina and possibly UW or USC. Either way I think a 17/16 is a bit low.
Georgia plays at GA Tech who is 8-3.
Wisc could lose to PSU.
Clemson and SC play, one will come out with 3 losses. We better leapfrog them.
ND could beat Stanford.
Add all that to conference championships, of which there is an extra one this year (B10+ PAC12+ B12-)
I think if we win, we'll be in that top 14.
They should make ND-Stanford a trophy game - battle for the golden external hard drive. And yes, I am a math major and easily as nerdy as anyone at those two institutions.
Instead of the (Cal vs Stanford) axe, how about a Hacker trophy ? ( yar,yar)
We'll jump the loser of the BTCG, the loser of the SEC, whoever loses the OSU(ntosu) - OU game, and any other crazy upsets that might happen.
Georgia and South Carolina play Georgia Tech and Clemson next week respectively. It wouldn't even take a crazy upset to see both of them lose.
As far as the polls are concerned, only the SEC matters. Even the last place team there should be ranked ! So a loss to an SEC team is not a loss unless you are from outside the SEC, but then you are in a "weak" conference.
These rankings don't matter. The goal is to beat ohio.
This Is MICHIGAN.
The goal is to win the Big Ten Championship, not to beat Ohio. I don't think an 1-11 season with a win against Ohio would be acceptable.
i'm sort of surprised that a beatdown of a higher ranked team didn't move us more in each poll. that being said, after reviewing the comments above, I tend to agree that if we beat osu, we shouldn't have trouble making it to the top 14. remember, the AP poll isn't in the BCS and the computers count too. I bet the computers view us more favorably than the coaches and AP poll.
that CBS site has projections of the BCS rankings and we're projected 16 there, but I'll bet we'll be 15 or 14 once the computer actual scores are run. We'll probably be 16 or 17 in the Harris poll, but I don't think that's out yet, either. Need to take care of that school down here, then see what happens. Also note, the 2 Big Ten teams in Indy will likely be above us (I'm assuming Wiscy and MSU), then the loser will drop below us in all likelihood with a 3rd loss (here's hoping that's MSU).
and so it looks like we're #16
Guaranteed & likely losses remaining:
• Wiscy/MSU guaranteed | jump a.s.
• Georgia likely (GT & LSU) | jump a.s.
• S Car possible (Clem) | jump a.s.
• OU/ntOSU guaranteed | jump possible
• VT/Clem guaranteed | Clem ripple effects? VT jump?
CBS Sports has us as 13 playing against undefeated Houston in the Sugar Bowl as long as it is an LSU Alabama rematch for the national title. As ridiculous as it sounds, I'd rather have 2 SEC teams playing again for the national title and allowing us to play a C-USA team in a BCS bowl instead of having to play Alabama in the Sugar Bowl...
Back to back games against Alabama? Whoa.
Agreed. I would love this pick. It would be a fascinating case study in conference hierarchy. It would also likely be an easier game. If we win a BCS game this year, I would be very, very happy with the completion of our season.
I have to say personally I want to bring on Alabama. A win against Alabama would be the equivalent of a win of Rocky Balboa versus Apollo. What I mean is that a win against a top ranked SEC team is exactly what we need to convince everyone that we are truly back and ready to compete not just against the Big Tem but against the best on a national level. Even if we barely lose to them we could see some of the same effect. When Michigan no longer fears playing anyone anywhere then we will truly be back.
Caveat: this has been a great season and the team has made immense progress. I'm just talking about it like a non Michigan and non Big Ten fan sees it. I am also really tired of all the SEC talk.
I was expecting us to be at least #14 now, not after a win against tSIO.
We may be 15 or 16 in the BCS. We were ranked 18th last week. I think the BCS had us ranked highest of the three.
I agree, for the first time this season i feel like we are underrated in the polls. That was Nebraska we demolished!
I feel like we're vastly underrated.
I wouldn't say vastly, necessarily, but I would definitely say underranked by a couple. Mostly this is because a number of programs are presently overranked. (Virginia Tech is the first on my list.)
I'd place us above
Kansas State (same record, blown out by 41 points at home against Oklahoma, who isn't THAT good)
South Carolina (same record, one impressive win by 3 against Georgia a long time ago, doesn't compare to us beating Notre Dame/Nebraska)
Georgia (same record, one impressive blowout over Auburn, ton of close wins against bad teams)
Oklahoma (8-2, maybe the worst loss of any ranked team when they lost to TT, the only reason they are even sniffing the Top Ten is who they are)
Virginia Tech (10-1, pathetic schedule, lost their only game against a ranked opponent by 20)
Boise State (10-1, one impressive win over Georgia, pathetic schedule, lost their only other game against a ranked (decent?) opponent in TCU)
I'll give MSU credit for beating us and having the same record, though I think getting blown out twice shows they aren't as good as their record suggests. I still think Wisconsin is the best team in the Big Ten and their only two losses are on the road on Hail Marys, so they get the nod. Houston....ugh. Hawaii 2007 wants their season back, but you are undefeated...
We must win first or the rest is irrelevant. Go Blue. Thanks Brady!
with a WIN over OSU..several of the ranked teams in front of us will knock each other out in the next couple of weeks...for instance..MSU vs Wisc.(assuming b10 title game)..somebody has to lose...etc... there are actually many of those coming and if this weekend is any indication there could be ALOT of ranked teams still to go down..Beat OSU and Michigan is BCS BOUND
I think we should be above South Carolina, Georgia, and Kansas State. They have the same record as us, but I don't think they've looked as good as us, especially as of late.
beat Texas with 120 yards of offense last night, which is unfortunate for us. South Carolina has to play Clemson, so one of those two teams will finish ahead of us. We likely won't leapfrog Georgia. I think with an OSU win we'll probably eek in, but I don't think it's guaranteed.
That is unbelieveable that we only move up one spot especially with all the top 25 losses.
Oklahoma's best OOC win was a close game against a 7-4 FSU team that had its QB injured. They lost at home to 5-6 Texas Tech and @Baylor. They've won 8 games rather than 9 (having only played 10 times so far). The blowout win @K-State is by far their most impressive in conference.
And that leads us to K-State. They surrendered 58 points in a blowout home loss to OU and 52 in a loss at Ok. State. Their best OOC win was a 4 point victory over 6-5 Miami. They beat Eastern Kentucky by a score of 10-7. They beat Baylor by 1, 6-5 Missouri by 7, 5-6 Texas Tech by 7, 6-5 Texas A&M by 3, and 6-4 Texas by 4. Their only convincing wins were against 2-9 Kansas and 5-6 Kent State.
On the other hand, Michigan's best OOC win was against 8-3 Notre Dame (currently ranked #22 in the AP poll). The losses came @ 9-2 MSU and @ 7-4 Iowa. Both games saw Michigan inside the opponent's ten yard line with an opportunity to tie the game late in the 4th quarter. Other than that, Michigan has not played a competitive game all season. No one has stayed within three scores, including #22 Nebraska and bowl-bound teams from Illinois (on the road), Northwestern (also on the road), SDSU, and (probably, assuming a win over IU) Purdue.
How you can look at those resumes and not have Michigan ranked comfortably ahead of both of those teams is pretty mind boggling.
A very strong argument, my friend. If you look at it as team A and team B there is question who looks better
You could do the same thing for South Carolina and Georgia. Both miss LSU and Bama on the schedule. Georgia also misses Arkansas (South Carolina lost big to the Razorbacks).
Georgia's best win came against 7-4 Auburn. Their most impressive OOC performance is getting beat down in a virtual home game (Georgia Dome in Atlanta) against Boise State. They beat 5-6 Tennessee by 8. 5-6 Vanderbilt by 5. 6-5 Florida by 4. And 4-7 Kentucky by 9.
South Carolina's only win over a ranked opponent came against the aforementioned Georgia Bulldogs. Their most impressive OOC win came against the 5-6 ECU Pirates. They were beaten soundly @Arkansas and lost at home to 7-4 Auburn. They beat 5-6 Miss. St. by a score of 14-12. They beat 5-6 Tennessee 14-3. They beat 6-5 Florida 17-12. They beat 4-7 Navy by 3.
Again, I don't see how these teams are ranked ahead of Michigan.
You make an extremely well thought out and convincing argument; I agree with it wholeheartedly. Now let's hope we actually beat Ohio or this whole arguement is completely moot.
Arkansas' best OOC win was against A&M by 3 points... Arkansas at #3 is a complete joke. Seriously. Next week playing LSU should clear that up though....
doesn't matter but only one of PSU, MSU, and Wis can stay at 2 losses so we should move up at least 1 and maybe 2. clemson & sc play so we could move up 1 there. also whichever team plays lsu prolly ends up with 3 losses and that should drop them. i don't see ksu staying ahead of us if we win.
we'll probably get into the necessary range with an OSU win. lot of teams still have games to lose ahead of us as well.
Here's a comprehensive breakdown. This is all assuming we beat OSU, obviously. Also assuming we are currently ranked BSC #16
Before the end of the season:
Clemson (17) plays South Carolina (12)
VT (5) plays Virginia (8-3, unranked)
ND (22) plays Stanford (6)
Georgia (14) plays GT (23)
Wisconsin (15) plays PSU (18)
Houston (9) plays Tulsa (8-3, unranked)
Kansas State (11) plays upset-specialist Iowa State (6-4, unranked)
Oklahoma (10) plays upset-specialist Iowa State (6-4, unranked)
Oklahoma (10) plays Oklahoma State (4)
SEC champ: Georgia (14) vs LSU (1)
B1G champ: MSU (13) vs Wisconsin/PSU (will be 15 by gametime)
So that's 4 spots guarenteed, with a possibility for 8. We would be in for sure.
We'll finish ahead of all but the B10 champion, from our conference, and I hadn't considered that Georgia would have to play in the SEC title game, so that's two spots, but I dont see anymore guarantees. Either way, I guess that's enough.
one of those teams is going to have another loss. UM jumps a 3 loss OU team and OSU would probably take a decent tumble if they lose to OU - not sure if it would be enough for UM to jump them though.
If VaTech beats Virginia, Clemson or VaTech is guaranteed another loss. UM jumps a 3 loss Clemson.
I must have missed some important changes. What is the significance of being 14th or lower in the BCS rankings? Are the top seven bowl games considered BCS now? I was under the impression that Michigan wanted to be in the top 10. It used to be the best and biggest bowls were the Rose, Orange, Sugar, Cotton and Fiesta.
To be selected for one of the 4 BCS bowls (of which the Cotton is not one), a team must be in the top 14 in the BCS standings. This is not a guarantee of being selected, it's a minimum requirement. When you factor in the top 2 are in the National title game, that gives the bowls 12 teams (#3-14) to select for 8 spots.
The top 14 applies to teams trying to get an large berth from an automatic qualifying conference. The Big East champ hasn't been in the Top 14 in a while and more than likely won't be again this year.
Top fourteen allows a BCS at-large berth. The BCS is the national championship, plus the Rose, Sugar, Fiesta and Orange, and if we finish in the top fourteen we're going to play in either the Sugar or Fiesta as an at-large against (probbaly) one of Oklahoma, Oklahoma State or Houston.
Thanks for clearing that up to both you and JClay.
Anybody suprised USC jumped 8 spots? I know beating Oregon on the road was huge but that seems to beat a very significant jump considering the PAC 12 isn't all that good.
There was a lot of coverage during the last week stating that USC was very underrated in the polls. Herbstreit basically said the same thing throughout the game last night. I think the Trojans were due for a jump of a few spots no matter what and then the win just got them a few more.
USC is ineligible for bowls, so they don't even get ranked in the BCS. So that alone moves us up one spot for sure.
USA Today (Coaches) and Harris poll do not include USC. Any computer poll that includes USC or other ineligible teams (FCS, Div II, Div III) just has those teams skipped over when calculating the top 25 teams per computer poll. Of course, neither the BCS, nor ESPN, their only outlet for posting BCS results, explicitly note this rule. No bump for us from where USC ends up.
USC is even more underrated, imo, given the post-season ban. Hate Lane Kiffin all you want, but give him some credit for motivating a team that doesn't have anything to play for except pride.
For the first time in quite awhile, I feel like we're underrated in the polls. I like it.
... (and not totally far-fetched) would have M finishing as the only B1G team with 2 or fewer losses, as follows:
Presumably, M is highest ranked B1G team going into bowl season in this scenario. But, it worries me a bit in that a 3-loss Wisconsin may *still* be considered by MSM to be the best team in the B1G and would get a BCS spot over M.
EDIT: actually, this scenario works regardless of who wins Penn State @ Wisconsin on Saturday. If M beats OSU, NW beats MSU, and MSU wins title game, M is only team in B1G with 2 or fewer losses.
Well considering we are probably around 16th in the BCS tonight, I believe we will be somewhere at 12-14 by the end of Championship week if all goes well. Georgia is gonna get smacked by whoever is in the title game. South Carolina needs to lose to Clemson which can happen. Clemson and Virginia Tech will hopefully beat the other one out of the top 12 in ACC title game. We jump Michigan State or Wisconsin, whoever loses. That should be enough for the 12 spot. Then if Notre Dame (cant believe Im mentioning this) can knock off Stanford, who is succeptible to a good offense, then we might be in. I think the whole key to this formula for us to get into the BCS Fiesta Bowl is Stanford loses to Notre Dame. Everyone else will knock each other off and we get in. If Stanford wins, we are out since Oregon will most likely not fall to ASU or Oregon State. Reality projection for UM = Michigan vs Arkansas in the Capital One Bowl.
A 10-2 Michigan teams with wins over OSU, Nebraska, and Notre Dame plus two close losses better be ranked in the top 12 by the end of the year.
Georgia south carolina wisconsin msu all have tough games ahead, thats 3 to 4 spots we can move up if we win
As far as I know, there's this school in Columbus that basically considers itself "Ohio", even if that is not their technical name, and since the band is neither large enough nor agile enough to do a script "State" after the "Ohio" (can you imagine the confusion, asking the OSU crowd to form a cursive "S"?), then "Ohio" it is.
Excuse my ignorance and apologies if this is slightly off-topic, but how are conference championship games factored into the BCS? It seems unfair to count a loss in a champtionship against a team, since they wouldn't be there but for being on top of their conference. (Not that I'm saying the BCS could possibly be unfair, mind you.) Am I missing something? I asked the internet and didn't get an intelligible answer. You guys are smarter than the internet, right?
Conference championship games usually kill the loser's chances of getting into a BCS game. I would expect that most years the BTCG loser will go to the Capitol One or Outback, with the highest ranked non-participant going to either the Sugar, Fiesta or Orange (or to the Rose if the BTCG winner gets a BCS title berth).
Since 1998 only three championship game losers have gotten at-large berths: 2004 Oklahoma, 2008 Alabama and 2009 Florida.
That answers my questions exactly, thanks very much.
All I care about right now is beating the bucks. The rankings will work themselves out later, especially this year since top 10 teams are dropping like flies.
Thanks for all the work you do on youtube for Michigan football
As long as we beat tsio, I don't care whether we go to a BCS or non-BCS bowl. Just beat those bastards next week.
Our job is to beat the Buckeyes, finish regular season 10-2, go and win a bowl game, and then get ready for 2012 when we start our run of B1G championships!