at least it's not just us?
This is not a big deal. Let the coach(es) hire who they want. No rift, just a bunch of pissing and moaning from people who didn't get their way. But, but, but...they didn't even call me back. Who gives a shit.
^^^^^^^ this too
Could not agree with you more! I feel like we are back in Jr. High or something. the Stones said it best, "you can't always get what you want..." the coaches are going to get who ever they want and who ever they feel comfortable with. Clearly Coach Hoke is comfortable with Malloroy and that is why he chose him. Whether he is the best choice or not, who cares. The coaches need to have chemistry just like the rest of the team, otherwise it can all fall apart quickly.
Look how well our defense worked the last three years...
Corwin Brown back. And more diversity. But I cannot have everything I want and neither can MT
Everybody quit your whining. Gary vs Lloyd, Bo vs Gary, him vs him....yata yata yata.....geeeeeezz!!!
Give the coach a F'in break. He' s been recruiting 24/7 for 3 weeks trying to assemble some sort of class for 2011. Bunch of frickin' babies.
wow, didn't see that coming man
This is just the first sign that no matter who our head coach is, there is always a whiner out there who didn't get his way.
With the largest living alumni base in the world...it's hard to please everyone.
That he's spent years telling everyone how his playing the game makes his insight into everything football related so much more valuable as he's continuously been wrong about the direction of the program at every turn.
There's a reason he's calling on the radio and not coaching, or running an athletic department, or having someone, anyone taking him seriously. Instead he's the flip side of "Phil from Detroit" or something.
Having played the game doesn't make you a genius. And it's obviously been shown it doesn't prepare you to know when to open your mouth or not.
There are rumors that he trashed his alma mater on the recruiting trail while he was at ND. If his interest in the position wasn't reciprocated, that may have something to do with it.
The point about wanting a more diverse coaching staff is well taken. Most college players are black. It's time coaching staffs reflected that. It's still a white-boy club. Plus, diversity will the school more desirable to recruits.
That being said, who knows why (or whether) Hoke didn't call Brown. He may have a very good reason. Bitching about on the radio seems stupid.
That's all I care about, and whatever the racial, sexual orientation, religious, or whatever beliefs of the staff are do not concern me in the least....
corwin brown wouldve helped greg banks workout
Please tell me this isn't true. Corwin Brown would be the PERFECT coach for our DBs. This would be a horrific oversight, and the worst move made by the Hoke regime so far, if it turns out to be true. Who cares about anything he said while he was at ND. The dude is a monster recruiter, former DC at a top national program, and a current DB coach under Bill mf-ing Belichick. This would have been an absolute home run hire and to think he didn't get an interview, let alone a phone call, is an absolute shame.
I think one point people are missing who are making the "omgzzzz affirmative action!" argument is that, simply, having another African American helps recruiting. Regardless of it's Mallory or Corwin Brown or whomever, it is absolutely a consideration, and should be, especially at a position like defensive backs, where, (and save me your "Vinopal! Kovacs!" argument) the vast majority of successful players are African American. Not to mention, Corwin Brown has an outstanding reputation as a recruiter. Frankly, I think his recruiting prowess alone makes him a better hire than Mallory, and not even giving the guy a call back is, in fact, a disrespectful move. Now, Michael Taylor probably shouldn't have put it on blast like that also. But yeah- i really want/wanted Corwin Brown, and if we still have a spot on our staff, why not make Mallory the "Beyonce" and bring in Brown to coach the DB's? I think that would be a home run, assuming he's not butt-hurt from the lack of call back (which I'm sure could be smoothed over with a "hey man, meant to call you; shit's been ridiculous here the past couple of weeks...wanna come in for an interview?" call from Hoke).
What a joke.
Uhh, yes. I really wanted, desired, hoped, wished, thought pleasantly of the idea of, favored Corwin Brown being our defensive backs coach, given that the position was open. Please elaborate on how that is a joke. I also don't think I am alone in my opinion, nor do I think it was, nor is, irrational, given the man's resume, Michigan ties, and recruiting track record. This is, after all, a message board; I thought discourse on a topic such as whom one desires as a position coach for Michigan and stating such opinions would be an acceptable thing to express.
I imagine Greg Mattison might take exception to the idea that Michigan won't recruit as well with the current staff.
I'm sure he would, especially if he never interviewed nor spoke to Corwin Brown. But can you tell me that Mallory is a better recruiter than Brown? I don't think that's the case (though I may be wrong). I also think we still have one spot left on our staff, right, so perhaps we could get Brown or someone similar (a dynamite recruiter) still. I just think that a duo of Brown and Mattison recruiting on the defensive side of the ball would be about as good as anyone has anywhere- including Ed Orgeron and other top-flight recruiters.
i don't think we have another coaching position to fill, but apparently it doesn't matter who we hire so long as he's black. And, btw, Ed Orgeron is white so he (and any other highly respected recruiter with white skin) would be immediately attacked as unacceptable.
I never said that at all. What I was and am saying is, I think Corwin Brown has a better resume, recruiting-wise, than the alternative. If Ed Orgeron were available, I'd take him over any assistant we have for the same reason (except Mattison). I'm not saying have an essentially "affirmative action" policy on the coaching staff; I'm saying that Corwin Brown has shown to be a very good recruiter, and perhaps some of that has to do with the color of his skin, but regardless, his merits alone warrant consideration, and his days at Michigan warrant a call back. I think I'm advocating what a lot of the people here are advocating: the best guy for the job. It just happens that Brown happens to be african american. If it's "hire random, less-qualified minority" vs. "hire qualified, better white guy," I'm going with the white guy. I just want us to win, and I think a DB coach has a lot to do with recruiting stud DB's. I'm not lamenting the hire of Mallory because of his race; I'm lamenting the lack of a good look at Corwin Brown because of his resume as a recruiter. And the stuff about "he said he'd go to ND if given the chance" on the recruiting trail, well, guys, how many of you who are saying "that has consequences, he can't coach here because of it" were in favor of Harbaugh as a candidate? Is it a sliding scale? What Harbaugh did- publicly- pissed me off royally. And comparing it to the Miles rumors is apples to apples; it's one thing to (allegedly) say that you'd have gone to the school you're recruiting for; it's another to steal verbals from your alma mater and (allegedly) spread rumors about the head coach's Parkinson's.
Seriously? I would want nothing to do with him after what's been reported that he said about Michigan and his experience while at ND. And even if I were going soft and thinking about it, allowing Taylor to go public with the kind of accusations I just heard would have relieved me of that notion in about 2 seconds. I don't care what kind of recruiter he is if he relies on the low road and I don't care what kind of coach he is if he relies on stirring shit up to be heard.
Corwin hadn't done anything in THIS situation wrong. Unless he knew and encouraged Taylor. But track record, it's much more likely MT shot off his mouth without thinking (because doing so probably would kill ANY chance of CB ever coming back to coach here). Maybe he's pissed at Mike for airing his dirty laundry. All speculation.
As is the what he said at ND (unless someone has some direct quotes; which doesn't mean it didn't happen, just more speculation). The only thing we know for sure is Michael Taylor doesn't have a filter between his brain and his mouth.
.......it seems like there are more white coaches than black, and thus, more white coaches near the top of the food chain.
No numbers to throw around, but it does seem like there are more top-flite black players who go pro than white, although I'm sure that in some years it's vice-versa or close to 50/50. That being said, there are probably more white ex-players who don't make the pro ranks and get into coaching instead, starting off as a GA and progressing through the coaching ranks. Meanwhile, although some black ex-players start off similarly, the rest who get into coaching play pro-level ball first and then come into the coaching community afterwards. They end up being older and out of the college game for at least a few years, thus, I believe it may be harder for them to break into coaching than it is for the ones who get into it immediately after their college career is over. Just a thought, and maybe not necessarily correct, but it is an off-hand observation.
As for the success of white or black coaches, and comparing them to one another, that is a topic that shouldn't even be discussed, anywhere. In my opinion, a coach shows how good he is by the product he puts on the field, the quality of young men (or women, in a general coaching sense) he puts out into the world, and the respect his ex-players and other coaches and players have for him. At UM, the school that I root for, I want them to get the best coaches who can put the UM athletes in the best position to win on the field and in life. I don't really care what color their skin is. If he's purple, but churns out a Brady, Woodson, Harris and/or Woodley every year, then that is fine by me.
In the real world, which is still largely run by white men -- the president notwithstanding-- it's just not quite so egalitarian.
To suggest that the numbers are skewed because more black players go pro is absurd. One percent go pro.
So Hoke doesn't hire a black coach because the coach is black? Or is it just, maybe, a little more likely that Hoke went after the guys he thought were the best fit?
No, he should hire the coach who gives him the best chance to win. If you think Mallory is a better recruiter and coach than Corwin Brown, then your point is valid. If you're making the argument that we should trust Hoke, because it's his staff, that's obviously also a valid argument, but is the one that some people are at least discussing the other side of. But I think that Corwin Brown's resume is better than Mallory's, and his recruiting is outstanding. He also adds (more) diversity, and that diversity is relevant because of the racial makeup of top-level college football. It also may be one of the reasons he's such a good recruiter. In sum, some of us question whether Mallory was/is a better candidate than Brown, and wonder why Brown wouldn't at least get a call back, not to mention the fact that not calling him back at all is, frankly, disrespectful to a fellow alum and letter winner.
I don't think any of us really know who is the better coach/recruiter. Despite being an absolutely terrible gameday coach and arrogant fuckwit, Ol' Charles could really recruit. Was that all Corwin or Weis? I really don't know. I don't think any of us here do. Put Corwin on another team for three years and let him recruit and that'd answer our question. I don't think it is as cut and dry as Mattison.
In regards to why Corwin didn't get a call back? I'm guessing he stepped on Hoke's puppy or something. More likely, like Les Miles, Corwin messed up and someone is remembering. If he hadn't, I agree, Corwin would be the better choice on paper.
Yeah, I hear you- I think you're probably right; I probably have a bias toward Brown because we've been going head-to-head against him in recruiting and he's done a pretty good job. I guess I also just have this feeling that we have an outstanding X's and O's guy on D in Mattison (who also happens to be an outstanding recruiter) and I generally want ace recruiters for position coaches (save QB coach and OL coach), and prefer that to guys with more of the X's and O's reputation, but that's kind of personal preference/philosophy.
He obviously wasn't a good fit on the staff.
Maybe wrong, but not absurd. Having watched college football for decades, I've seen more white grad assistants on the sidelines than black. Is it due to racism? I don't think so. I believe it's more to do with the availability of white ex-players for those types of positions, which tend to make it easier on the person to break into an actual coaching position than someone who came straight from the pro playing ranks.
Is there some discrimination that exists in coaching, no matter what the sport? Sure, and there is racism that exists in the world outside of sports as well, but that doesn't mean that the reason there aren't more black coaches, whether head coach or position coach, is solely due to a world that "is still largely run by white men", as you stated.
As for me, personally, I've already stated my position on who I'd like to have coaching the teams that I root for. I don't care about color. It doesn't matter, and that includes whether or not it meets some sort of "quota" number or percent. I wouldn't care if UM sports was entirely coached by black coaches. Just give me someone who can do it well, and turn out decent young men and women into the world.
You bring up a good point. No one seems to mention this in the outrage about the lack of black HCs in CFB but look at the large gap in graduation rates nationally in college football between blacks and whites. It's pretty difficult to be a "graduate assistant" if you don't have a degree in the first place.
How many college coaches don't have degrees? Probably none or close to it. It's not the white man trying to hold down the black man, its a problem thats already started before most AAs step foot on a college campus (see national eduction/testing gap). Then when you factor in that most universities don't really give a crap whether their players graduate or not you have a major difference in the racial makeup of players versus coaches. Too bad most hack sports columnists don't actually investigate the causes of this issue.
The one in India, the one in Thailand, the one in China, the one in Japan?
Performance of the team on the field and the pursuit of wins is what this is supposed to be about, not the racial composition of the coaching staff or the players.
For those that say Taylor should have taken this to Brandon or hoke . . . Why should they talk to him about this? Is it really any of his business? Yes he was a former player but that doesn't mean he has a say in everything or anything that goes on there now. Brutal.
He has access. If he has a beef he has the ability to address Hoke/DB. If he is concerned about a 'divide' among the lettermen, he can address it behind closed doors. If disatisfied with the result, he can call WTKA. Did he pursue behind doors avenues? I don't know and certainly hope so, but from the sound of his rant it doesn't sound like it. If he's on board with program/team first, he would hit State Street before phoning Jeff F-ing D-fran.
suspects come out and grumble about getting the best guy. But somehow blacks continue to be miserably under-represented in the ranks year in, year out--why is that? And are people really so naive that they don't think that if word gets out that Michigan isn't even making an effort it will hurt on the recruiting trail, perhaps irreparably?
Put many of these same reactionary graybeards in a place where 95+% of people are black for a few years and tell me they wouldn't be uncomfortable. . .
And you know, for a fact too, that Corwin wasn't hired because he was black. And that other black coaches were passed over for white coaches because their skin color wasn't right? Really?
No one is going to try to claim that black coaches aren't miserably under-represented. No one needs to look any further than Charlie Strong to see a glaring example of how backwards the HC ranks are. In this case, however, without any evidence that Hoke is choosing guys as a result of the color of their skin, this type of attack on Hoke's character is inappropriate.
When Rich had all of one more black coach? (And considering he basically inherited Freddy and Singletary....)
He had DL coach Bruce Tall, OC Calvin McGee, and WR Tony Dews as well as the two guys he (and Hoke) inherited in RB coach Jackson and recruiting coordinator Singletary which including Singletary makes 5 black coaches. That's two more, and on a staff of what, 10 or 12? that's a larger percentage than you think. Anyway I don't think the race of the coach matters as much as the age. I think the names I heard not including Rodriguez out of the mouths of committed and interested recruits were the intense young coaches: WR coach Dews, QB coach Smith, and OL coach Frey. Our "Beyonce" need be in her late 20s - mid 30s and intense/energetic...not necessarily black.
I actually looked it up before I logged in, but I (and others) weren't counting Bruce Tall. Which is kind of funny when you have the guy above questioning Montgomery's cred because he's too white, when Tall may be the whitest black guy ever, but looks are obviously deceiving, because he was an African-American pioneer at WV, and obviously qualifies for any quota.
I bet Cornflakes is really looking forward to his next meeting with Belichick.
The opening press conference was lather fest about how the program, its alumni and boosters need to be united behind a "Michigan Man". I am not going criticize Hoke, if he thinks Curt Mallory is the best man for the job than great. But he and Brandon do have to watch out, perception is reality and creating a racial division in the program could get really ugly. Hopefully this is just the rants of a rouge former player and not signs of a further schism. It would be interesting to find out the whole story here I just hope Brandon really is, to steal a term from GWB, the uniter he has been sold as, the heir apparent to Bo and not a stubborn narcissist.
He must be trying to fill our new trans-gendered coaching slot.
(And yes, just a typo...just one too good to resist).
I am trying to think of all the great notre dame dbacks from the weis era . . . . and wasn't it the horrible defense that got charlie canned? Someone enlighten me.
There is a LinkedIn group of former letterwinners and MT has been going OFF for a couple months now. He's certainly spoken his mind and and made his opinion very well know .
However, I have ONE major issue with something that was said early in this thread....
"He said he (MT) had been on the phone all day with former letter winners and all were PISSED OFF!"
Obviously I can't comment on the people Michael spoke to on the phone, but to hint that ALL former letterwinners were pissed off is misleading.
I wrote that, paraphrasing a few hours after having listened in the car.
He intimated that he had spoken with a number of former letter winners, presumably his contemporaries.
Having listened to the podcast, a more honest take would be:
He said the lack of return call was an outrage, a disservice that he was not going to stand for, nor would a lot of letterman he talked to on the phone all day long who are very upset.
How much of that is MT exaggerating to make a point vs. what is really was? We'll never know.
Thanks for the call out for clarification, not all were and I'm sure many are/will be happy with a Mallory hire.
What has he been bitching about? The treatment of Rich Rod?
Considering Leach went from storied former player to kind of a doofus in a lot of people's eyes after shooting off his mouth, maybe it's time for them to realize they're hurting themselves more than helping anything by saying whatever they think. It didn't help Leach's image, it's hurt Braylon's, and isn't doing wonders for Michael Taylor's either.