If it's true, that's a huge mistake IMO. Huge recruiter. The staff is sooooo white, and it bothers me.
Michael Taylor on WTKA regarding Corwin Brown being blown off by Hoke/Brandon
Silly me, I thought sports was all about hiring the best coaches, recruiting the best players, getting them to play as a team, and winning....Little did I know that the race, color, hair status, religion, or whatever mattered to anyone in sports beyond WINNING...which we sure could use some big time around this football program after the past few years!
Are you up to date on the University's admissions and hiring policies?
If you don't think race should be or is an issue in any place of employment I don't know where you've been living for the last 30 years. It is and should be very much a concern for the athletic department. I will leave it at that because I don't see this going anywhere beneficial.
Ahhhh, forget it...this is getting too political...
you're right. he should have hired a latino or asian....
Says the white guy?
Didn't they just hire an African-American coach in Jerry Montgomery?
There no way in the world they couldn't find more than one AA coach to fill the vacant coaching positions. I love Michigan , but if I'm an opposing coach I would use that to negative recruit against them. I'm AA and if an opposing coach pointed that out to my mother it would have definitely been a huge strike against Michigan in my mothers eyes.
They did find more than one. Montgomery and Jackson.
Fred would say:
"I don't care about the color of a man's skin...it's about the colour of his soul and that, friends, needs to be maize and blue. Indeed, not yellow and blue, not off white and blue, not black and blue but maize and blue.
Maize and Blue.
It's not about outward appearances, not about race or creed or culture...no my friends it's about what's inside a man. A great man named Desmond Howard, a veritable saint of a man indeed, once stated "you have to look beyond statistics...statistics can be skewed". Friends, he is correct in that regard. As a black man on this mostly white and middle aged staff I am perhaps under represented when it comes to my fellow African Americans; however, when it comes to the maize and blue in my soul I feel a kinship with all of the coaches, the administrators and most especially the future's greatest running back of all time and certain NFL Hall of Famer Mr. Justice Hayes."
It's not a big deal at all! We have 2 black coaches, pry more than most programs. It doesn't matter anyway, people tend to look into who's white or black or brown too often.
I don't know how DB could go with all the Michigan Man talk and fire a guy that goes back to Bo. I'm sure he was going to be retained regardless of head coach.
incidentally, i know a guy.
This staff has two black members. The RR staff had three. Big difference?
Didn't you read the MGoQuota guidelines that set the over/under at 2.5?
How about that? BH is obviously going with the coaches willing to come with him from SDSU and Mattison was a no-brainer. So that's going to limit the number of positions available for anyone, regardless of race.
I thought Corn flakes was another no-brainer but I guess I was wrong.
Outrage then? No one said "Rich is bringing too many white guys from WV" (and if they had, the screams of "elitism prejudice!" towards Southern white guys would have been the prevailing theme).
Where was the outrage when Hoke was hired instead of a black coach? As far as we know, no black candidates were even interviewed. Not one peep about that.
Why? The people who are complaining that Corwin Brown wasn't hired are part of the same cabal that have been pushing since day one to get RR (you know, the latino guy) fired and a "Michigan Man" hired. They just assumed, as part of the LC Mafia, Hoke would hire Corwin Brown. They are totally shocked that he didn't and, like clockwork, have pulled out the race card.
This is not about race. It is about a bunch of whiny former players and/or alums who are throwing a tantrum because, once again, they did not get what they want. Waaaaahhhh!!!!
So I don't know what was said. I'm just saying that neither number is great, so RR is no saint when it comes to this issue.
You get the best person for the job and if this guy is truly better than Corwin, then fine. It seems like if BH would have used the same criteria to hire a secondary coach that DB used to find a head coach, then Corwin would've been a no-brainer.
Bruce Tall, Calvin Magee, Tony Dews, Fred Jackson, and Chris Singletary would like a word with you about your arithmetic skills.
FTR, I believe it is good for coaching staffs to make a good faith effort to diversify their staffs, especially when the university is making shitloads of money on the backs of disproportionately black athletes. It's like, paying it forward, you know?
Having said that, there is no possible way for us (or MT) to know what really happened, so unless Corwin Brown and Brady have a televised beer summit, MT should STFU.
I don't understand all the venom and anger by so many who have clearly never coached a fucking down of football. Coaching even younger kids(which I do) is an effort done in concert with those you gel and communicate with best. Communication, trust and mindset form the basis of success (not skin color). Hoke or any other coach needs to find the people he feels best with to win at this level. Peroid. If you don't get that, get your asses out there and fucking coach some football! THEN come tell us how someone at that level needs certain percentages of minorites on his staff, and he BETTER win 10 games AND compete for a national title every 3 years or else!
Clearly, RR never had that defensive coaching relationship at Michigan. Look at the results. If you live in a world where your forced into decisions, good luck. It will be very difficult to succeed that way.
what did he say?
He said Corwin has an outstanding resume (true) and listed it. He said Corwin contacted U of M to volunteer to go back to being a position coach to join the new regime...and that he never even heard back. He said he (MT) had been on the phone all day with former letter winners and all were PISSED OFF! Really ugly, really sad. I agree with MT completely yet totally disagree with him taking this issue to a talk show on the radio instead of driving to the Football Building and banging on someone's door.
Corwin was king of negative recruiting against Michigan. Maybe that got old. We know the AD holds grudges.
Obviously, I get all of my info here, but I have heard often that Corwin negatively recruits against is, in particular, using the "I have been at both places and ND is just way better" line.
If so, maybe DB and Hoke felt that he didn't fit the mold of this staff.
He reputedly would tell recruits, "The only reason I went to Michigan was because I didn't have a chance to go to Notre Dame."
I like Coach Hoke, but I don't understand not at least talking to Cornflakes. There has to be something else going on. Didn't he coach with GM at ND.
Edit : Sorry, I checked Wikipedia and they never coached together at ND.
Have to say, but has an on-air meltdown/hissy fit about what they are saying. Apparently white letterman don't count to him (even if they've previously worked with these coaches before). Might be time for MT to go the way of Ricky Leach and just keep it mouth shut rather than remove all doubt, if you know what I'm saying.
Yes, he should have talked to DB or Coach Hoke instead of airing it out.
Mike Taylor needs to sort this stuff out behind closed doors. He came off poorly in my opinion even though I generally really like the guy.
I wonder if he knew at the time of the call that another former player was hired?
I'm p/od as well. Hoke has to see everyone on the coaching staff looks just like him, but only one of the coaching staff look like most of the players. I think Hoke dropped the ball by not getting at least one more AA on his staff. I'm not saying hire someone just because they're black, but I'm not really happy about the fact that Hoke has ignored this issue. If you're not AA you might not understand where the concern is coming from. This does not look good on Hoke at all!
How has he ignored the issue? He's got two African-Americans on staff. Stop spreading this bullshit.
Fred Jackson is probably 60 years old. Montgomery is so light you can't tell what color his is and the fact that you negged me tells me you have no sensitivty of the struggles of the AA male. I'm not talking bad and UM I never have and I never will. I'm just saying this stinks . Brian even said it himself a week or 2 ago. Take race out of the equation for a minute and compare the resumes of the 2 canidates. I don't care if they hired C Brown or not, but I would have liked to see more diverisity on the coaching staff. There's nothing wrong with me saying that. If one of the players needs a young AA mentor to talk to who do they turn to?
Based on the percentages of AA males in our population, I think our coaching staff is proportionately diversified. That being said, people will always find something to bitch about, this just happens to be it. What a stupid fucking arguement for a number of reasons.
But the population of the football team is in direct contrast of that of the coaches. D-1 football is primarily black so it would be smart to have blacks on the staff.
"Montgomery is so light you can't tell what color his is"
I don't know what color his is either, but I don't think he'd like us talking about it here.
Is more racist than anything our coaches have done.
Are you serious? Am I the only one who sees this to be a blatantly racist comment? Let me just disregard Fred Jackson as a black male because he’s old. Clearly, when he moved up the ranks without a Rooney rule it was cake. Oh and Montgomery... when black people have lighter skin they face no hardships. Racism is only for the darker AA males glad we cleared this up.
People need to stop this nonsense there’s always someone looking to complain. Continue the Hokemania!
don't harbor the same closed-minded attitudes you do, and don't have problems talking to white guys, or old black guys, or light-skinned black guys. James Hall did a nice job of calling Hoke out at the hiring conference. I can see how traumatized he was.
The fact that you would say "Montgomery is so light you can't tell what color his is" proves you have no sensitivty of the struggles of the AA male. You should pretty much recuse yourself from this thread now. You have no credibility.
Your premise is that this staff is not diverse enough. Ok, set aside for the moment that many do not believe that race / diversity should be a factor and just want the best coach for the job.
But, as many have pointed out, there are two black coaches on the staff. Don't let the fact get in your way, so start the spin:
1. Fred Jackson is like 60.
Ah, I forgot that at 60, all black men become white. They lose their status as black. Thanks for pointing that out.
2. Montgomery is light skinned.
Got us, again. Dude isn't even black. He is a plain old white guy who Hoke told to sit in a tanning bed to try to pass for black. I hope that my sarcasm meter is just off, because if you said that seriously, you are one of the stupidest, most racist individuals I have met. Basically discounting Montgomery's race because he doesn't fit your pre-determined stereotype of a black man - really classy.
especially the you cannot tell what color he is.... classy.
Why not go look at the coaching staffs at other major universities...is Alabama, OSU and others that much different? Would CB have been a good hire, perhaps. Is MT handling it well? No.
Age-ism? Or does that make him not black?
C'mon people. Does the race issue always have to be so irrational?
All white guys look alike.
on the internet , because I can guarantee you would be scared to death to call me a fucking idiot to my face! Not unless you're a pain freak.
I doubt that. Idiot. You are not the only man god chose to make over 6 feet tall, remember that.
As you're bragging how scary you are on the Internet....?
Now if you compare him to a Nazi, you'll have the internet hat trick.
You are obviously 12-14 years old, get picked on a lot and like to act like a big man on the internet.
This blog is generally a pretty classy place (usually), and this is the first "I could kick your ass if this wasn't the internet, and I am really a 6'4", 245 pound big dude with like 12 blackbelts and a chainsaw for an arm and by the way I banged your mom / wife / sister" comment that I have read here in years. Please go away.
Oh, by the way, I can't wait until negging is back because La Paz is beautiful this time of year.
Quick Question: Are you smart enough to understand how incredibly stupid you sound?
but, Brian said it, so he must be right.
Says the "scary" guy implying he'd beat everyone up in person... You sir are an idiot
Absolutely agree that this discussion is ridiculous and people are way out of line but I disagree about laying this at Brian's feet for two reasons:
- Brian raised it as a concern in light of connecting with recruits from diverse backgrounds but did not make any sort of direct accusation- just publicly said he hoped Hoke would look to add diversity.
- Hoke has done so since Brian first wrote those words in hiring Montgomery and we haven't heard Brian voice any concerns since then.
Yep, only 1. He is ignoring the issue. Lord knows what a black player might think about being contacted by a black recruiting coordinator.
Mattison should get to choose his own coaches. Should he have given Brown a pity interview? maybe. Should he have hired him? Not if he thinks Mallory is better.
...for a distinguished alum who has a very solid resume for the position a) we had a need and b) he was interested. If Mattison/Hoke (who, as one of their big positives, is their love and respect for Michigan's history) can't make the time to personally answer his call and at least explain why he's not getting an interview, that's a mistake.
Sorry you don't like the term, I guess. When it comes down to it, Mattison and Hoke are picking the coaches, no matter how bad the fans want someone. If they didn't interview him, they have their reasons. If they had to interview every distinguished alum, they'd be there a while. On top of that, who says Taylor knows what he's talking about?
I think you're missing the point - not every distinguished alum, who has the credentials, was making themselves so available.
While I defer to the current coaches on the decision, I think a courtesy interview is surely fair.
And that is a semi-legitimate complaint. It is similar to all the heat RR got for "disrespecting" certain Michigan traditions. You can't please everyone and Hoke has been sort of busy the past few weeks. He didn't get back to CB in a timely basis. Fine. But it has nothing to do with the fact that CB is black and it undercuts CB's character if he is the one pushing this whiny argument behind the scenes. It makes me happier we didn't hire him and hope we never do.
I doubt there is a huge list of people contacting them who have starred at U of M and also coached the position, at both the college and pro level. The list probably was closer to one than it was to five.
And I didn't say they even had to give him an interview, 'pity' or otherwise. Just get back to the man. It's a sign of respect that you appreciate the interest of an alum in possibly contributing to the program. They're all big boys - just explain you're going in another direction/already conducted interviews/whatever. Don't blow him off.
This isn't a huge mistake or anything. Just a bit disappointing.
Why do you assume Taylor is telling us the Gospel truth? Maybe he never actually called.
Why do you assume he's not?
Because Michael Taylor has a tendency to blow shit out of proportion and is always angry about something.
Maybe he didn't call until after Hoke/Mattison already had an agreement with Mallory, but hey, why wait for all of the facts to come out before a good old fashion MGoBlog meltdown and opportunity for posters to trot out the high horses.
Hoke DID call Cornflakes but Cornflakes didnt recognize the number because it was a San Diego are code. Then maybe Hoke doesnt like to leave messages on answering machines.
Or maybe Brown was never interested in coming back to Michigan, and when Taylor asked him why he didn't get the job, he gave the "I totally called them and they didn't answer" excuse. We don't know what happened.
Very inappropriate if true ... you might even say "Braylonesque." This is from a guy who was often lauded for being a "smart" player, too. (That might have been a nice way of saying his downfield range was about 13 yards.)
Is this evidence of a conflict between Lloyd Loyalists and Schembechler <somethings>? Is Corwin just maybe not the best candidate? Based on where he's been and what he has done, I have a hard time believing Curt Mallory was a better choice, but (seriously) WTF do I know? Any insiders care to shed some light on this?
Man, I really wanted Corwin Brown as our DB coach. Great recruiter, has been a D-Coordinator (ND) and has most recently worked on Belichik's staff.
I like Mattison, Hoke so far. But holy shit, having a staff comprised of old bald white men isn't going to help recruiting.
If this in fact happened, bad move. I also think it's classless if they didn't call him back.
So bumed that corwin is not coming back to Michigan. If he did not get a call back, that is sad.
Jerry Montgomery is neither old or bald, nor is he white.
Mallory isn't old or bald either. White? Guilty.
Only in America is being white a crime...
As almost always, you speak the truth.
By the way, if it is a crime, Montgomery, our young, black position coach, Fred Jackson, our black RB coach and Singletary, our sort-of young Black recruiting coordinator would be innocent.
I suppose you've been pulled over for "Driving While White." Maybe you've been "randomly searched" every time you go to an airport because you look like a terrorist. Perhaps the policeman decided to ask for your ID because you looked like an illegal immigrant.
If you think that being white is a crime in America, you have successfully turned society on its head in your mind. You, sir, are deluded.
Sorry for me not feeling sympathy for a white man in America
Won't somebody think of the white men!
University of Michigan."
And, Marc from Novi? I got two words for you, behind closed doors. Braylon. Edwards.
Actually, that is either 3 or 5 words.
Is Corwin the dude who used to tell ND recruits he would have gone to ND over Michigan if given the opportunity?
I seem to remember Corwin doing some negative recruiting against M while he was at Notre Dame.
Corwin's a great recruiter and all, but was he that good of a defensive coach?
I have no idea how good a coach he is, but his resume looks impressive. If looking at Mallory and Corwin's resumes, MT may have a point. But, MT needed to talk to Hoke and Mattison in private, but it may be too late since they were recruiting. I can understand the MT anger since he is friends with Corwin on top of that.
As for Corwin negative recruiting us, that would be sad, but I wonder if Mattison negative recruited us when he was at ND and we were going after the same players.
I don't understand this move but I am sure Coach Hoke will do things that we don't agree with.
Maybe he wasn't using negative recruiting tactics as much as he was doing his job - he worked for ND and it was his job to get recruits there, not M.
Your right. But if you spread some rumors about a cute girl, and then go back and say your interested, does that mean she should forget and give you a chance.
...she still isn't returning your calls?
Your right. But if you spread some rumors about a cute girl, and then go back and say your interested, does that mean she should forget and give you a chance.
Not what I'm saying.
I'm saying that there's a difference between bashing Michigan (which we don't know that he actually did) and doing his job - steering recruits away from here to ND.
I may be remembering incorrectly but he did work with the actually quite good portion of ND's defense (DBs) while he was there. I'd say he has a reputation of not just being a good recruiter but also a good DB coach.
What was he supposed to say?
the truth. always. no matter what. maybe he did... maybe not. either way, if that's what he said, fuck him
This isn't good on a lot of fronts.
First, if it's true that Cornflakes tried to call BH or GM and didn't even get a return call, that's just wrong. It's one thing if they didn't want him there for whatever reason, but you just don't disrespect an alum like that.
Secondly, what the hell was wrong with Cornflakes as a coach? No offense to Curt Mallory, but it would seem that Corwin is at least as qualified and would bring a little diversity to the staff.
Lastly, even if all of this is true, Taylor shouldn't be going on the radio and airing this out. As others have said, go to DB and discuss this. I mean, Corwin Brown hasn't gone to the media about this, not sure why Taylor felt the need to do it. I'm sure he meant well (sticking up for a teammate), but not good.
Hopefully, this can get smoothed over, last thing we need is the Gary Moeller faction to go to war with the Lloyd Carr faction, with the Bo and RR clans figuring out which side to choose.
Teammate than Corwin was for MT. And while Corwin and Hoke probably had little contact overlap, Mallory was at Ball State for awhile.
If Hoke never contacts Corwin, it's a mistake. But rushing up to signing day the fact that he hasn't had time to respond to unsolicited resumes isn't a big deal. From all the "why is he doing that?!? He should be RECRUITING!!" comments, this isn't nearly as important as MT thinks his every word is.
a whole lot of 'WTF??!?!?!?! Why isn't Hoke recruiting instead of filling out staff?!?!?!?!?!?' going on here for a while.
This is not a big deal. Let the coach(es) hire who they want. No rift, just a bunch of pissing and moaning from people who didn't get their way. But, but, but...they didn't even call me back. Who gives a shit.
^^^^^^^ this too
Could not agree with you more! I feel like we are back in Jr. High or something. the Stones said it best, "you can't always get what you want..." the coaches are going to get who ever they want and who ever they feel comfortable with. Clearly Coach Hoke is comfortable with Malloroy and that is why he chose him. Whether he is the best choice or not, who cares. The coaches need to have chemistry just like the rest of the team, otherwise it can all fall apart quickly.
Look how well our defense worked the last three years...
Corwin Brown back. And more diversity. But I cannot have everything I want and neither can MT
Everybody quit your whining. Gary vs Lloyd, Bo vs Gary, him vs him....yata yata yata.....geeeeeezz!!!
Give the coach a F'in break. He' s been recruiting 24/7 for 3 weeks trying to assemble some sort of class for 2011. Bunch of frickin' babies.
wow, didn't see that coming man
This is just the first sign that no matter who our head coach is, there is always a whiner out there who didn't get his way.
With the largest living alumni base in the world...it's hard to please everyone.
That he's spent years telling everyone how his playing the game makes his insight into everything football related so much more valuable as he's continuously been wrong about the direction of the program at every turn.
There's a reason he's calling on the radio and not coaching, or running an athletic department, or having someone, anyone taking him seriously. Instead he's the flip side of "Phil from Detroit" or something.
Having played the game doesn't make you a genius. And it's obviously been shown it doesn't prepare you to know when to open your mouth or not.
There are rumors that he trashed his alma mater on the recruiting trail while he was at ND. If his interest in the position wasn't reciprocated, that may have something to do with it.
The point about wanting a more diverse coaching staff is well taken. Most college players are black. It's time coaching staffs reflected that. It's still a white-boy club. Plus, diversity will the school more desirable to recruits.
That being said, who knows why (or whether) Hoke didn't call Brown. He may have a very good reason. Bitching about on the radio seems stupid.
That's all I care about, and whatever the racial, sexual orientation, religious, or whatever beliefs of the staff are do not concern me in the least....
corwin brown wouldve helped greg banks workout
Please tell me this isn't true. Corwin Brown would be the PERFECT coach for our DBs. This would be a horrific oversight, and the worst move made by the Hoke regime so far, if it turns out to be true. Who cares about anything he said while he was at ND. The dude is a monster recruiter, former DC at a top national program, and a current DB coach under Bill mf-ing Belichick. This would have been an absolute home run hire and to think he didn't get an interview, let alone a phone call, is an absolute shame.
I think one point people are missing who are making the "omgzzzz affirmative action!" argument is that, simply, having another African American helps recruiting. Regardless of it's Mallory or Corwin Brown or whomever, it is absolutely a consideration, and should be, especially at a position like defensive backs, where, (and save me your "Vinopal! Kovacs!" argument) the vast majority of successful players are African American. Not to mention, Corwin Brown has an outstanding reputation as a recruiter. Frankly, I think his recruiting prowess alone makes him a better hire than Mallory, and not even giving the guy a call back is, in fact, a disrespectful move. Now, Michael Taylor probably shouldn't have put it on blast like that also. But yeah- i really want/wanted Corwin Brown, and if we still have a spot on our staff, why not make Mallory the "Beyonce" and bring in Brown to coach the DB's? I think that would be a home run, assuming he's not butt-hurt from the lack of call back (which I'm sure could be smoothed over with a "hey man, meant to call you; shit's been ridiculous here the past couple of weeks...wanna come in for an interview?" call from Hoke).
What a joke.
Uhh, yes. I really wanted, desired, hoped, wished, thought pleasantly of the idea of, favored Corwin Brown being our defensive backs coach, given that the position was open. Please elaborate on how that is a joke. I also don't think I am alone in my opinion, nor do I think it was, nor is, irrational, given the man's resume, Michigan ties, and recruiting track record. This is, after all, a message board; I thought discourse on a topic such as whom one desires as a position coach for Michigan and stating such opinions would be an acceptable thing to express.
I imagine Greg Mattison might take exception to the idea that Michigan won't recruit as well with the current staff.
I'm sure he would, especially if he never interviewed nor spoke to Corwin Brown. But can you tell me that Mallory is a better recruiter than Brown? I don't think that's the case (though I may be wrong). I also think we still have one spot left on our staff, right, so perhaps we could get Brown or someone similar (a dynamite recruiter) still. I just think that a duo of Brown and Mattison recruiting on the defensive side of the ball would be about as good as anyone has anywhere- including Ed Orgeron and other top-flight recruiters.
i don't think we have another coaching position to fill, but apparently it doesn't matter who we hire so long as he's black. And, btw, Ed Orgeron is white so he (and any other highly respected recruiter with white skin) would be immediately attacked as unacceptable.
I never said that at all. What I was and am saying is, I think Corwin Brown has a better resume, recruiting-wise, than the alternative. If Ed Orgeron were available, I'd take him over any assistant we have for the same reason (except Mattison). I'm not saying have an essentially "affirmative action" policy on the coaching staff; I'm saying that Corwin Brown has shown to be a very good recruiter, and perhaps some of that has to do with the color of his skin, but regardless, his merits alone warrant consideration, and his days at Michigan warrant a call back. I think I'm advocating what a lot of the people here are advocating: the best guy for the job. It just happens that Brown happens to be african american. If it's "hire random, less-qualified minority" vs. "hire qualified, better white guy," I'm going with the white guy. I just want us to win, and I think a DB coach has a lot to do with recruiting stud DB's. I'm not lamenting the hire of Mallory because of his race; I'm lamenting the lack of a good look at Corwin Brown because of his resume as a recruiter. And the stuff about "he said he'd go to ND if given the chance" on the recruiting trail, well, guys, how many of you who are saying "that has consequences, he can't coach here because of it" were in favor of Harbaugh as a candidate? Is it a sliding scale? What Harbaugh did- publicly- pissed me off royally. And comparing it to the Miles rumors is apples to apples; it's one thing to (allegedly) say that you'd have gone to the school you're recruiting for; it's another to steal verbals from your alma mater and (allegedly) spread rumors about the head coach's Parkinson's.
Seriously? I would want nothing to do with him after what's been reported that he said about Michigan and his experience while at ND. And even if I were going soft and thinking about it, allowing Taylor to go public with the kind of accusations I just heard would have relieved me of that notion in about 2 seconds. I don't care what kind of recruiter he is if he relies on the low road and I don't care what kind of coach he is if he relies on stirring shit up to be heard.
Corwin hadn't done anything in THIS situation wrong. Unless he knew and encouraged Taylor. But track record, it's much more likely MT shot off his mouth without thinking (because doing so probably would kill ANY chance of CB ever coming back to coach here). Maybe he's pissed at Mike for airing his dirty laundry. All speculation.
As is the what he said at ND (unless someone has some direct quotes; which doesn't mean it didn't happen, just more speculation). The only thing we know for sure is Michael Taylor doesn't have a filter between his brain and his mouth.
.......it seems like there are more white coaches than black, and thus, more white coaches near the top of the food chain.
No numbers to throw around, but it does seem like there are more top-flite black players who go pro than white, although I'm sure that in some years it's vice-versa or close to 50/50. That being said, there are probably more white ex-players who don't make the pro ranks and get into coaching instead, starting off as a GA and progressing through the coaching ranks. Meanwhile, although some black ex-players start off similarly, the rest who get into coaching play pro-level ball first and then come into the coaching community afterwards. They end up being older and out of the college game for at least a few years, thus, I believe it may be harder for them to break into coaching than it is for the ones who get into it immediately after their college career is over. Just a thought, and maybe not necessarily correct, but it is an off-hand observation.
As for the success of white or black coaches, and comparing them to one another, that is a topic that shouldn't even be discussed, anywhere. In my opinion, a coach shows how good he is by the product he puts on the field, the quality of young men (or women, in a general coaching sense) he puts out into the world, and the respect his ex-players and other coaches and players have for him. At UM, the school that I root for, I want them to get the best coaches who can put the UM athletes in the best position to win on the field and in life. I don't really care what color their skin is. If he's purple, but churns out a Brady, Woodson, Harris and/or Woodley every year, then that is fine by me.
In the real world, which is still largely run by white men -- the president notwithstanding-- it's just not quite so egalitarian.
To suggest that the numbers are skewed because more black players go pro is absurd. One percent go pro.
So Hoke doesn't hire a black coach because the coach is black? Or is it just, maybe, a little more likely that Hoke went after the guys he thought were the best fit?
No, he should hire the coach who gives him the best chance to win. If you think Mallory is a better recruiter and coach than Corwin Brown, then your point is valid. If you're making the argument that we should trust Hoke, because it's his staff, that's obviously also a valid argument, but is the one that some people are at least discussing the other side of. But I think that Corwin Brown's resume is better than Mallory's, and his recruiting is outstanding. He also adds (more) diversity, and that diversity is relevant because of the racial makeup of top-level college football. It also may be one of the reasons he's such a good recruiter. In sum, some of us question whether Mallory was/is a better candidate than Brown, and wonder why Brown wouldn't at least get a call back, not to mention the fact that not calling him back at all is, frankly, disrespectful to a fellow alum and letter winner.
I don't think any of us really know who is the better coach/recruiter. Despite being an absolutely terrible gameday coach and arrogant fuckwit, Ol' Charles could really recruit. Was that all Corwin or Weis? I really don't know. I don't think any of us here do. Put Corwin on another team for three years and let him recruit and that'd answer our question. I don't think it is as cut and dry as Mattison.
In regards to why Corwin didn't get a call back? I'm guessing he stepped on Hoke's puppy or something. More likely, like Les Miles, Corwin messed up and someone is remembering. If he hadn't, I agree, Corwin would be the better choice on paper.
Yeah, I hear you- I think you're probably right; I probably have a bias toward Brown because we've been going head-to-head against him in recruiting and he's done a pretty good job. I guess I also just have this feeling that we have an outstanding X's and O's guy on D in Mattison (who also happens to be an outstanding recruiter) and I generally want ace recruiters for position coaches (save QB coach and OL coach), and prefer that to guys with more of the X's and O's reputation, but that's kind of personal preference/philosophy.
He obviously wasn't a good fit on the staff.
Maybe wrong, but not absurd. Having watched college football for decades, I've seen more white grad assistants on the sidelines than black. Is it due to racism? I don't think so. I believe it's more to do with the availability of white ex-players for those types of positions, which tend to make it easier on the person to break into an actual coaching position than someone who came straight from the pro playing ranks.
Is there some discrimination that exists in coaching, no matter what the sport? Sure, and there is racism that exists in the world outside of sports as well, but that doesn't mean that the reason there aren't more black coaches, whether head coach or position coach, is solely due to a world that "is still largely run by white men", as you stated.
As for me, personally, I've already stated my position on who I'd like to have coaching the teams that I root for. I don't care about color. It doesn't matter, and that includes whether or not it meets some sort of "quota" number or percent. I wouldn't care if UM sports was entirely coached by black coaches. Just give me someone who can do it well, and turn out decent young men and women into the world.
You bring up a good point. No one seems to mention this in the outrage about the lack of black HCs in CFB but look at the large gap in graduation rates nationally in college football between blacks and whites. It's pretty difficult to be a "graduate assistant" if you don't have a degree in the first place.
How many college coaches don't have degrees? Probably none or close to it. It's not the white man trying to hold down the black man, its a problem thats already started before most AAs step foot on a college campus (see national eduction/testing gap). Then when you factor in that most universities don't really give a crap whether their players graduate or not you have a major difference in the racial makeup of players versus coaches. Too bad most hack sports columnists don't actually investigate the causes of this issue.
The one in India, the one in Thailand, the one in China, the one in Japan?
Performance of the team on the field and the pursuit of wins is what this is supposed to be about, not the racial composition of the coaching staff or the players.
For those that say Taylor should have taken this to Brandon or hoke . . . Why should they talk to him about this? Is it really any of his business? Yes he was a former player but that doesn't mean he has a say in everything or anything that goes on there now. Brutal.
He has access. If he has a beef he has the ability to address Hoke/DB. If he is concerned about a 'divide' among the lettermen, he can address it behind closed doors. If disatisfied with the result, he can call WTKA. Did he pursue behind doors avenues? I don't know and certainly hope so, but from the sound of his rant it doesn't sound like it. If he's on board with program/team first, he would hit State Street before phoning Jeff F-ing D-fran.
suspects come out and grumble about getting the best guy. But somehow blacks continue to be miserably under-represented in the ranks year in, year out--why is that? And are people really so naive that they don't think that if word gets out that Michigan isn't even making an effort it will hurt on the recruiting trail, perhaps irreparably?
Put many of these same reactionary graybeards in a place where 95+% of people are black for a few years and tell me they wouldn't be uncomfortable. . .
And you know, for a fact too, that Corwin wasn't hired because he was black. And that other black coaches were passed over for white coaches because their skin color wasn't right? Really?
No one is going to try to claim that black coaches aren't miserably under-represented. No one needs to look any further than Charlie Strong to see a glaring example of how backwards the HC ranks are. In this case, however, without any evidence that Hoke is choosing guys as a result of the color of their skin, this type of attack on Hoke's character is inappropriate.
When Rich had all of one more black coach? (And considering he basically inherited Freddy and Singletary....)
He had DL coach Bruce Tall, OC Calvin McGee, and WR Tony Dews as well as the two guys he (and Hoke) inherited in RB coach Jackson and recruiting coordinator Singletary which including Singletary makes 5 black coaches. That's two more, and on a staff of what, 10 or 12? that's a larger percentage than you think. Anyway I don't think the race of the coach matters as much as the age. I think the names I heard not including Rodriguez out of the mouths of committed and interested recruits were the intense young coaches: WR coach Dews, QB coach Smith, and OL coach Frey. Our "Beyonce" need be in her late 20s - mid 30s and intense/energetic...not necessarily black.
I actually looked it up before I logged in, but I (and others) weren't counting Bruce Tall. Which is kind of funny when you have the guy above questioning Montgomery's cred because he's too white, when Tall may be the whitest black guy ever, but looks are obviously deceiving, because he was an African-American pioneer at WV, and obviously qualifies for any quota.
I bet Cornflakes is really looking forward to his next meeting with Belichick.
The opening press conference was lather fest about how the program, its alumni and boosters need to be united behind a "Michigan Man". I am not going criticize Hoke, if he thinks Curt Mallory is the best man for the job than great. But he and Brandon do have to watch out, perception is reality and creating a racial division in the program could get really ugly. Hopefully this is just the rants of a rouge former player and not signs of a further schism. It would be interesting to find out the whole story here I just hope Brandon really is, to steal a term from GWB, the uniter he has been sold as, the heir apparent to Bo and not a stubborn narcissist.
He must be trying to fill our new trans-gendered coaching slot.
(And yes, just a typo...just one too good to resist).
I am trying to think of all the great notre dame dbacks from the weis era . . . . and wasn't it the horrible defense that got charlie canned? Someone enlighten me.
There is a LinkedIn group of former letterwinners and MT has been going OFF for a couple months now. He's certainly spoken his mind and and made his opinion very well know .
However, I have ONE major issue with something that was said early in this thread....
"He said he (MT) had been on the phone all day with former letter winners and all were PISSED OFF!"
Obviously I can't comment on the people Michael spoke to on the phone, but to hint that ALL former letterwinners were pissed off is misleading.
I wrote that, paraphrasing a few hours after having listened in the car.
He intimated that he had spoken with a number of former letter winners, presumably his contemporaries.
Having listened to the podcast, a more honest take would be:
He said the lack of return call was an outrage, a disservice that he was not going to stand for, nor would a lot of letterman he talked to on the phone all day long who are very upset.
How much of that is MT exaggerating to make a point vs. what is really was? We'll never know.
Thanks for the call out for clarification, not all were and I'm sure many are/will be happy with a Mallory hire.
What has he been bitching about? The treatment of Rich Rod?
Considering Leach went from storied former player to kind of a doofus in a lot of people's eyes after shooting off his mouth, maybe it's time for them to realize they're hurting themselves more than helping anything by saying whatever they think. It didn't help Leach's image, it's hurt Braylon's, and isn't doing wonders for Michael Taylor's either.
Corwin's DB work at Notre Dame:
In 2007, opponents gained 1939 yards through the air against Notre Dame. 19 TDs, 11 Ints.
In 2008, opponents gained 2544 yards though the air against Notre Dame. 15 TDs, 14 Ints.
In 2009, opponents gained 2730 yards through the air against Notre Dame. 17 TDs, 12 Ints.
Which means, rankings wise, Notre Dame went from being the #3 pass defense in terms of yardage (in a year they went 3-9, wha?) to the #27 pass defense, to being right above Ball State and Florida Atlantic in 2009, with the #76 pass defense. Michigan was 66th in pass yardage defense in 2009.
that I think they are doing more harm than good. Some of them are representing their own narrow self-interests to the detriment of the program, the university and the team. I also suspect that for every one that shoots his mouth off, there are a dozen with an opposing view who don't air it publicly.
You wussed out. Should they be black or white?
lesbian woman who is trapped in a man's former body that is relegated to a wheelchair due to severe autism and who must coach via Skype from outside the country because he/she has just been deported for being an illegal alien.
Note: the above does not change the requirement that he/she also must have either coached or played for Michigan in the past and LC must give his approval by publicly declaring the hire tremendous.
Unless there is any evidence that he was passed over due to the color of the skin, then this is nothing more than sour grapes. People need to get over themselves.
of a previously unknown sports host. BFD.
A Michigan Man lamenting that another Michigan Man chose to hire one MIchigan Man instead of an alternative Michigan Man.
A Michigan Man lamenting that another Michigan Man chose to hire one MIchigan Man instead of an alternative Michigan Man.
Damn, Leach and MT do NOT hold it in.
I don't think you can afford to be racist if you're a football coach