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MICH-again #1 in B1G (acc to sagarin poll predictions)

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November 4th, 2012 at 12:57 PM
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michelin
Joined: 09/22/2009
MGoPoints: 479
MICH-again #1 in B1G (acc to sagarin poll predictions)

Michigan again is the top team in the B1G according to the Sagarin poll PREDICTOR ratings--which are the best in actually predicting game outcomes.  Here are the ratings and overall national rank:

 

1. Michigan  (#23 overall, rating 82.42)

2. Ohio (#24 overall, rating 82.40) INELIGIBLE for postseason

3. Neb (#25, rating 82.01)

4. PSU (#28, 79.44) INELIGIBLE for postseason

5. Wisconsin (#32, rating 78.73)

6. NU (#39. 77.2)

UNRANKED IN TOP 39 ( MSU, IL, IND, IA and MIN).

So, what are the chances UM will get to the championship game in INDY?  Based on the Sagarin ratings (and a few heroic assumptions given below), NEB has a better than 50-50 chance of losing at least one more game.  The chances of UM actually getting to INDY are about one in five.

UM’s chances are not higher than this largely because we play at Ohio.  But, if  Ohio were not ineligible and Michigan played them in INDY, UM would be a narrow favorite.   Likewise, on a neutral field, UM would be favored over NEB (-0.5 points). 

In any case, if we get a bit lucky and do get to INDY, we would be nearly a 2-1 favorite over WISC (or -3.5 points which translates into a greater than 60% chance of winning).

 

*******

*CALCULATIONS

One predicts the outcome of future games by subtracting the two Sagarin PREDICTOR ratings (with +3 for home field advantage)  That gives us the estimated point spread for each matchup.  We can convert the point spreads into odds based on a conversion chart (see bovada).  Then, we can convert the odds (O) into win probabilities (p) as p=O/(1+O).   For example,

PtSprdOdds   win prob

-2         1.2       0.54

-3         1.45     0.59

-4         1.85     0.65

5          2.15     0.68

-6         2.4       0.71

-7         2.9       0.74

-8         3.2       0.76

-9         3.35     0.77

-10       3.875   0.79

  

 

SO FOR THE REST OF THE SEASON

NEB would be a

-5.5 favorite vs PSU (win probability of .68)

- 14.5 vs MIN which has a 67.75 rating (win probability of .9)

-8.5 at IA which has a 70.71 rating (win probability of .76).

Assuming independence of game outcomes (discussed below), the chances of NEB winning out would be

= .68*.9*.76 = .46.  The chance of not winning out would be 1-.46 =.54.

 

In Ann Arbor, UM would be

-8 pts vs NU (5+3 for home field, equivalent to a win probability of .76),

-15 Pts vs IA (or win probability of about .90)

In Columbus, UM would be not quite +3 underdogs (equivalent to a win probability of .4). 

So, the chances of UM winning out would be = .76*.9*.4 = .27.

 

SUMMARY/DISCUSSION

Thus, the chances of UM winning out and NEB not would be = .54*.27 = .15.  I would guess that the chances might be as high as 0.20, since other outcomes could also lead to UM winning one more game than NEB (eg one loss by UM and two by NEB or two losses by UM and three for NEB),  

One factor that might increase UM’s chances a bit further is that game outcomes are not likely to be independent but positively correlated (due to injuries and other factors that would make runs of wins or losses more likely).   Since UM’s chances of winning all games will depend more heavily on Denard’s injury situation, the chances of a run of wins (with a healthy Denard) would seem to increase the chances of UM winning out over NEB’s chances (for which game outcomes would be more nearly independent). 

On the other hand, if Denard is not healthy the chances of UM winning out would be lower than the Sagarin ratings predict. But given the usual course of recovery from his condition and the encouraging performance of DG, I think that 20% is still a reasonable estimate for UM’s chances of getting to INDY.

 

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbt12.htm

 

michelin

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November 4th, 2012 at 1:05 PM | Damn ulnar nerve. (Score:4 Normal)
TheGhostofYost
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Joined: 04/20/2011
MGoPoints: 2560

Damn ulnar nerve.

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November 4th, 2012 at 1:13 PM | Damn WR depth. (Score:3 Normal)
bleep bloop
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Joined: 08/05/2010
MGoPoints: 1727

Damn WR depth.

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November 4th, 2012 at 1:14 PM | (No subject) (Score:5 Normal)
BeileinBuddy
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Joined: 11/11/2009
MGoPoints: 756

North Campus' resident Sport Management major
Michigan Concrete Canoe Team - http://umich.edu/~concanoe

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November 4th, 2012 at 1:32 PM | Damn (Score:1 Flamebait)
HartAttack20
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Joined: 06/08/2009
MGoPoints: 1371

Damn all the things that are not.

I can only continue to reference the fact that I live in an onion factory.

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November 4th, 2012 at 4:22 PM | Of all the (Score:1)
MGlobules
Joined: 11/17/2008
MGoPoints: 5148

. . . 

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November 4th, 2012 at 1:32 PM | My gut tells me that Nebraska (Score:3 Normal)
Papochronopolis
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Joined: 09/17/2009
MGoPoints: 1554

My gut tells me that Nebraska will choke on the road against Iowa...Ferentz will have his team ready after we shred them in a2.

But regardless of what happens to Nebraska I want to see us take care of business. A big ten championship game appearance would be awesome but I'd be ecstatic if we can drive a stake through the hearts of those zombie buckeyes and start a streak of our own.

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November 4th, 2012 at 1:51 PM | gut tells me that Nebraska will choke on the road against Iowa (Score:4 Normal)
Don
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Joined: 06/30/2008
MGoPoints: 19203

That's not your gut—that's your Blind Optimism Gland. The only way Nebraska loses to Iowa is Taylor Martinez injuring his ulnar nerve, or sustaining some other boo-boo.


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November 4th, 2012 at 2:20 PM | Yeah no kidding. If Iowa (Score:2)
Lionsfan
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Joined: 06/03/2011
MGoPoints: 3903

Yeah no kidding. If Iowa manages to beat a Nebraska team playing for the conference title, I'll eat a lemon. Iowa just lost to Indiana in football

Let me repeat that, Iowa just lost to Indiana in football. There's no way the dumpster fire that is Iowa football beats Nebraska barring injuries

If you're doing nothing, how do you know when you're finished?

StraightDave owes me a steak dinner

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November 4th, 2012 at 3:31 PM | I don't think it's likely (Score:3 Normal)
jmblue
Joined: 11/07/2008
MGoPoints: 28964

I don't think it's likely (PSU is better bet to beat the Huskers), but Ferentz does have a knack for pulling the occasional stunning upset, especially at home.  

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November 4th, 2012 at 8:51 PM | Yes Iowa is way down, (Score:1)
ND Sux
Joined: 10/01/2009
MGoPoints: 3131

but in fairness, Indiana is a MUCH improved team.  They've been in just about every game to the end. 

"I promise you we would have walked to the University of Michigan."  - Brady Hoke

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November 4th, 2012 at 1:56 PM | I think this week vs Penn (Score:1)
Newbs
Joined: 10/15/2012
MGoPoints: 181

I think this week vs Penn State may be dangerous for them. Penn State has been very up and down but they're still a solid football team that has played pretty well on the road so far. Nebraska may be a little sluggish after the squeaker yesterday and have a game like they did vs Northwestern last year.

WOLVERINE NATION!

Twitter: @MckenzieNewby

 

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November 4th, 2012 at 1:56 PM | Might not work (Score:2)
Ezeh-E
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Joined: 07/22/2009
MGoPoints: 193

Usually you'll want to drive the stake through the head of the zombie

 

/Walking Dead'd

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November 4th, 2012 at 1:34 PM | Also (Score:2)
Papochronopolis
Papochronopolis's picture
Joined: 09/17/2009
MGoPoints: 1554

What happens to Nebraska if Martinez gets hurt? He's definitely been at least slightly shaken up the past two games

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November 4th, 2012 at 1:37 PM | Yet somehow Nebraska looks (Score:2)
ChopBlock
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Joined: 12/11/2011
MGoPoints: 1502

Yet somehow Nebraska looks like they're ranked above Michigan in Sagarin. Am I just an idiot, or is there an inconsistancy somewhere?

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbt12.htm

"The straightest line from A to B is straight: From A to B"

"When you have Denard Robinson, you can have everything"

~George Walden

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November 4th, 2012 at 1:43 PM | The Predictor ratings are (Score:1 Flamebait)
justingoblue
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Joined: 11/16/2010
MGoPoints: 10867

The Predictor ratings are different than his BCS calculations. This is thanks to the intelligent decision to leave computers blind to margin of victory in BCS rankings.

Go Blue!

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November 4th, 2012 at 1:45 PM | What you are seeing (Score:2 Informative)
michelin
Joined: 09/22/2009
MGoPoints: 479

 is the average of two Sagarin rating methods: PREDICTOR and ELO-CHESS.  

I use only Sagarin's PREDICTOR ratings, since his ELO-CHESS ratings do not consider point margins and are not as good in predicting actual game outcomes.  Regrettably, the overall BCS computer rankings use  the ELO-CHESS Sagarin ratings--as well as other computer polls that often overweigh WL records and underweigh SOS.  So, we will not do as well when the BCS computer rankings come out.  Probably NEB will be ahead of us.

However, I do not believe that any of these alternative ranks has been shown to do as well as the Sagarin PREDICTOR ratings in forecasting actual game outcomes.  And that's what's important in predicting the rest of the UM season.

michelin

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November 4th, 2012 at 1:38 PM | I May Be Crazy (Score:3 Normal)
big john lives on 67
big john lives on 67's picture
Joined: 02/15/2009
MGoPoints: 316

But I still believe that we are the best team in the Big Ten.

However, our chances are slim and none at this point, with PSU probably the last team that has a realistic shot at dealing the Huskers a loss.

"Gentlemen, This is Michigan," Glenn E. "Bo" Schembechler

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November 4th, 2012 at 1:49 PM | Well the Iowa game is a (Score:2)
AmaizeingBlue
Joined: 09/01/2010
MGoPoints: 1345

Well the Iowa game is a rivalry game and it is at Iowa so I some hope that they can lose that game.  I think PSU has a decent chance to get the W next weekend.  

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November 4th, 2012 at 2:23 PM | Iowa-Nebraska is a rivaly (Score:2)
Lionsfan
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Joined: 06/03/2011
MGoPoints: 3903

Iowa-Nebraska is a rivaly like Penn State-MSU. Two teams being put together and told, "you're rivals now".

Also, Iowa lost to Indiana football. I can't stress that enough when it comes to Nebraska's schedule

If you're doing nothing, how do you know when you're finished?

StraightDave owes me a steak dinner

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November 4th, 2012 at 4:36 PM | Well, (Score:3 Normal)
Engin77
Joined: 07/02/2008
MGoPoints: 2095

unlike PennSt-MSU, Iowa and Nebraska do share a border. There is a natural rivalry amid all that corn.

Taking it one week at a time

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November 4th, 2012 at 1:45 PM | Divisions In Perspective Too... (Score:2)
LSAClassOf2000
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Joined: 01/07/2011
MGoPoints: 8737

The mean PREDICTOR rating for the Big Ten would be 74.69, which would be good for 51st on the list between greats like Tennessee and Louisiana Tech if it were an actual team. That being said, it still puts the divisions into perspective a little, with four of the six teams in the Legends being above the mean rating, and only one eligible team in the Leaders. 

 

"Funny isn't it, how naughty dentists always make that one fatal mistake."

Follow the random tweets of a Michigan alum - http://twitter.com/#!/LorneEC3

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November 4th, 2012 at 1:47 PM | I was told there would be no (Score:4 Normal)
Maize n Blue
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Joined: 09/09/2009
MGoPoints: 614

I was told there would be no math

 

Dreads > Lil Boosie fade

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November 4th, 2012 at 1:51 PM | Slightly OT but are we not (Score:1)
azian6er
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Joined: 04/09/2012
MGoPoints: 152

Slightly OT but are we not the best 3 loss team in the country? How does USC and Texas tech get ranked above us in the AP when 2 of our 3 losses were to top 4 teams.

I guess we haven't beat anybody - maybe this is why.

UM alum 2005  Columbus, OH Native (I know.)

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November 4th, 2012 at 1:59 PM | Yep (Score:2)
Ezeh-E
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Joined: 07/22/2009
MGoPoints: 193

When your two best wins are 12-10 home against MSU and 28-25 home against Air Force, you just don't have much ground to stand on

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November 4th, 2012 at 2:06 PM | My guess (Score:2 Normal)
michelin
Joined: 09/22/2009
MGoPoints: 479

is that there are multiple biases in the human polls.  They overweigh the beginning of the season.*   Also, they overweigh the more visible games and insufficiently consider strength of schedule (SOS).   So, the ALA and ND losses early in the season really hurt our position in the human polls.  On the other hand, the fact that we played two of the top 3 teams really helped our SOS and our position in the Sagarin poll.

 

*For instance, we fell out of the human polls early on because we had played really tough teams.   The pollsters anchor their ratings from there and it is a lot harder to move up---even though early season outcomes are far less reliable and based on a very small sample.  (note that there also may be a bias toward overweighing the most recent games as well as the initial schedule, but the games in between are much less salient).

michelin

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November 4th, 2012 at 2:01 PM | I'd say so too. And USC and (Score:1)
Newbs
Joined: 10/15/2012
MGoPoints: 181

I'd say so too. And USC and Texas' victories are against no better opponents than ours and they didn't have to play Alabama at a neutral site, at Notre Dame and at Nebraska both at night.

WOLVERINE NATION!

Twitter: @MckenzieNewby

 

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November 4th, 2012 at 2:29 PM | USC & Texas' victories are against no better opponents than ours (Score:3 Normal)
Don
Don's picture
Joined: 06/30/2008
MGoPoints: 19203

USC's only victory against a team with a winning record was against 5-4 Washington, which had its ass handed to it by Arizona. Texas's record is a bit better, but not by much.

This is not to say that our own record is all that impressive, either. So far, it's not. We have three opportunities to burnish things—NW, OSU, and a bowl game.


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November 4th, 2012 at 2:25 PM | Three reasons: 1. Big Ten is (Score:1 Trolling)
Anonymosity
Anonymosity's picture
Joined: 06/30/2008
MGoPoints: 2057

Three reasons:

1. Big Ten is ass.

2. Michigan's two best wins are losses to Alabama and Notre Dame.

3. The only difference between the Big Ten and the MAC is the Big Ten has its own cable channel to show round-the-clock bad football.

Ann Arbor: now the permanent home of the Little Brown Jug

67-22-3 all-time

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November 4th, 2012 at 9:25 PM | Since the computers all agree (Score:2)
Yeoman
Joined: 06/08/2011
MGoPoints: 2247

this probably isn't just a question of bias in the human polls. Sagarin predictor has TTU #15 and SC #16 (and also OK State at #18 and AZ State #13 and BYU #19).

M's overall SOS isn't as good and a couple of the losses were decisive, especially the first one. The narrow win against Air Force isn't helping at all.

Massey hasn't updated yet--I'll probably post something when it does. He gives heavier weights to more recent games so M may look a little better there.

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November 4th, 2012 at 8:54 PM | I think Nebraska will lose (Score:1)
UM2018
UM2018's picture
Joined: 10/10/2012
MGoPoints: 152

I think Nebraska will lose one more but unfortunately I don't see us beating Ohio State. I hope I'm wrong, though.

-UM class of 2018 

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