Should be interesting to see what happens. Miami president Donna Shalala has said the school will not accept any more significant penalties than they have self imposed while the NCAA has to be under some strong pressure to do something big to Miami.
Miami sanctions expected tomorrow
Since when is this a negotiation? How can you have your pudding if you don't eat your meat?
However, we have been wronged in this investigation, and we believe that this process must come to a swift resolution, which includes no additional punitive measures beyond those already self-imposed.
their stance is more one of arrogance bordering on denial, than one of innocence. I think she and the university are giving the country their best bluff, of course there were violations at Miami but Miami is pushing so hard the other way so as to bluff their way out of the hand
and his offensive during Tressel Gate.
and his offensive during Tressel Gate.
Gordon Gee look like a PR master
Will not accept = will appeal
In all your just another brick in the wall!
I need to be comfortably numb listening to this crap from "the U".
If Miami has to miss out of a bowl (still in NC run), I think they got screwed. Is it deserving, yeah maybe but they should have atleast known that going into the season. The NCAA took way to long on this.
Way too long. They should've gotten the death penalty back in the early 80s, instead of a bunch of Championships and a glittering 30 for 30 special.
That was my favorite 30 for 30.
Screw 30 for 30. Devoting an entire show to Miami being awesome when the whole time they were...... oh, I think they had a feature on another team like that too.
The Fab Five documentary was not a 30 for 30, if that's what you're referring to.
He may have been referring to Pony Excess, which was FANTASTIC.
all I have to do is read reader comments on one of the major sports sites and I'm snapped back to reality.
Donna Shalala is an embarrassment.
Shalala la la la la la la la la dee da la dee da.
Even if the NCAA screwed up in their investigation process, which they most definitely did, MIami's issues were egregious; well beyond that of Ohio. She can appeal but it won't help in the end.
The Miami Herald piece has some Al Golden quotes as well - (LINK)
I assume this is about all he can say at this point really...
“There is no plan for what transpired here,” the coach said. “We’ve been fighting since that moment. At the end of the day I’m concerning myself with the final product, not how we got from point A to point B. It’s been that kind of two years.”
He also mentions that any "master plan" he might have had for the program has been rather sidetracked by this scandal, but then everyone knew that.
Why can't people just play by the rules?
Because the ncaa rules are obnoxious.
Some of them are. The rule against paying players doesn't sound egregious.
Your comment is somewhat akin to saying, "I think the prohibition on sodomy is stupid. This makes all prohibitions stupid. I'm going to kill someone now."
There really shouldn't be anything big to do to them. They've self imposed bowl bans already, so I doubt they'll do that, all I can think of is some schollie reductions for a couple years.
They have to get hit with significant scholarship penalties. After all high profile players recquire high profile compliance.
In the end, Miami may not have much ability to fight, as it's a voluntary organization, but Shalala is obviously pushing the concept of due process. No matter how dirty Miami was, in the end, you can only, justly, punish someone for what you appropriately prove that they did. If the investigation is faulty (which it clearly was), the issue becomes not "what did they do?" but "what did we find that they did wrong through appropriate investigations?" It's like the concept of the "poisoned tree" in criminal law. If you find evidence only by breaking the law, you shouldn't be able to use that improper evidence. Otherwise, there's no incentive for investigators to follow the law.
In this case, it'll be interesting to see what the NCAA can actually prove, how they got that evidence, and how much they take into account their own errors. Given pretty significant self-imposed penalties and the fuster-cluck that is the NCAA, it's hard to root for much more significant penalties. Given the arrogance of Miami and their total disregard for amateurism in sports or any sort of rules, it's easy to root for more significant penalties.
So, I don't know, can we just send both the NCAA and Miami to some sort of purgatory?
I anticipate that whatever penalties the NCAA announces tomorrow will be roundly criticized.
Were it up to me, NCAA investigations would consist of little more than the work done by investigative journalists taken at face value, with the question then asked, "Prove this wrong." The NCAA is not the government, therefore I see no reason why "due process" should prevail as it relates to "admissible evidence."
The NCAA has a fundamental problem which it can never overcome as long as it takes that view: namely, that nobody in the know ever has an incentive to talk. As long as its rules are written so that "due process" prevails, the NCAA simply cannot overcome that. But who cares about the fruit of the poisoned tree or chain of custody of evidence? We're not talking about jail time. Why should the process not simply be, "Well, Miami, Charles Robinson makes these accusations and has this to back it up. Here is this fellow Nevin Shapiro and he says all this. Care to refute that?" That would get people scrambling to talk instead of clamming the hell up. I understand the problems with proving a negative, but when it comes to the investigative journalism, they don't simply make shit up. These stories are always backed up with documents and witnesses when they're this big. If a payment from Oregon to some "scouting service" looks shady, it's shady, and why should it be on the NCAA to prove that rather than on Oregon to prove it isn't?
Because it can turn out that investigative reportes can be wrong too and plenty of them have agendas. If a reporter can get the information to prove what they say than the ncaa sure as hell should be able to and if not then it is all just rumors. I have a friend who went to fsu in the 90's and knew some football players who got payed cash after every win but I can't provie it so it doesn't mean shit. There is no reason you should be able to punish a schoool without proof.
I've never seen one of these investigative reports not have backup from witnesses as well as documents. It could happen, theoretically, yes. I suppose a reporter (who doesn't like his job very much, because he'd be fired soon after) could write a huge article without a shred of proof. But the NCAA certainly has the latitude not to go after a program.
That's funny, I could have sworn something like that happened around here not too long ago. Oddly enough, I don't recall the reporter getting fired.
Actually more or less a perfect example of why my idea would be fine. Rosenberg did have proof of a sort. Some people lied so he would have it, but he had it. The NCAA came in with the finest of fine-toothed combs. Michigan was able to prove that the story was 95% bullshit. Lots of people were willing to talk to them and say so. Records were freely offered up. The NCAA said, OK, here's your wrist slap for the tiny little things we did find, and that was that. They took the article at face value and Michigan was able to prove it mostly false. A model, IMO, of the way things could go to bring down the hammer when the hammer is warranted.
Not really poison tree like. I mean they received their initial information from a douchebag but they did nothing improper to get it. I just think that what was found was likely not as substantial as what was originally said. I don't know, the continued existence of Oregon makes the NCAA look pretty foolish to come down on any of it too hard.
I agree that both Miami and NCAA should be sent to some sort of purgatory.
I disagree about the 'poisoned tree' jurisprudence. One man's actions do not make another man guilty - nor do they exculpate him. So if the investigators broke the law, that doesn't mean the people they are investigating are innocent. It does mean that the investigators should be prosecuted and punished. The actual incentive at work under the 'poisoned tree' model isfor the investigated to provoke the investigators to break the law. A legal model that incentivizes more law-breaking is not a good model, in my opinion.
My prediction: moderate scholarship penalties, and by moderate I mean nothing even close to what Penn State got. Beyond that, nothing of consequence.
The NCAA is done. Until major reforms happen, it's a joke and will do nothing important or impactful, save through inaction and ineptness.
when 6-5 was a "great year" for the "U" and nobody in the country imagined orange and green coexisting on a college football uniform.
Wow you're cranky.
I wouldn't wish that on them. Al Golden has finally gotten some traction in that program.
That's very unlikely for the simple reasons that 1) the state of Florida has a far larger population now than it did 35 years ago and produces a ton of talent and 2) Miami is now in a major conference, so it's a more attractive in-state option for said talent than all but UF and FSU, at the least.
Her getting the call from the NCAA, and when they tell her of the new sanctions she just says "No". Like if someone asked her if she would like something. Would you like more dessert? No. You have a two year bowl ban and lose 5 scholarships the next two year! No.
association and their own set of "voluntary" rules.
I'm sure North Carolina, Ohio State, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Oregon, Alabama, and rest of SEC would be chomping at the bit to participate.
What's the deal; it's not like Miami was stretching players inpropriately.
They've already self-imposed a bowl ban each of the last two seasons. That's pretty stiff compared to some other penalties that have come down recently.
I don't have espn, did anything ever come of the Ala thing with the coach and $500?
The player, Ha Ha Clinton-Dix, was cleared by the NCAA and played Saturday against Arkansas after sitting out the previous two weeks. The coach is still on administrative leave.
Eastern Washington water polo gets the death penalty so the NCAA can show how upset they are with Miami.
They'll probably give the death penalty to Miami of Ohio instead.
I like Miami so I'm a bit biased here. But after the ncaa bumbled the investigation and their main informant being a jaded individual who knowingly enticed poor kids with cash (all while trying to feel cool), I detest the latters way more than the former.
Coaches get paid the huge bucks, especially at public universities. Maybe it's just good enough to strip them of their ability to make a living than to punish kids who took no part in the deed.
Miami is a private university.
The U shouldnt be hit with any more major sanctions. The past few years of flux cost them plenty, including Teddy Bridgewater and Louis Nix, both of whom were committed to Miami before all this made them reconsider. They would be a top 5 team right now with those two anchoring each side of the ball this year.
Shalala has bi-partisan political clout. The currently-weak NCAA doesn't want to risk her fighting further penalties. I am guessing that they impose a low-impact additional "penalty."
The NCAA botched this one.
9 scholarships over 3 years.
fails again. Everyone should just cheat and make it a level playing field.